PrisonerOnEarth In reply to Paulthored [2024-02-14 02:50:31 +0000 UTC]

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Paulthored In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2024-02-14 06:36:45 +0000 UTC]

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to CMDobbs [2019-03-17 22:14:30 +0000 UTC]

Thank you so much!

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to StuSwensen [2019-01-21 02:32:53 +0000 UTC]

Hidden by Commenter

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StuSwensen In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2019-02-03 16:47:42 +0000 UTC]

thank you Matt, I appreciate your time with the reply. I respect the work you do, very nice. I like the  one page you did on Pilate scene with Jesus, nice inks & colors. Did you publish this in print?

I am new to Amazon and will be trying to put in previews for the readers soon. It was my first attempt with colors and still learning.

thanks again.

God's blessing to you and
may His will be done in our art.
Stu

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to StuSwensen [2019-02-04 03:13:09 +0000 UTC]

No problem. Yeah the Pilate scene was published in the Big Bible Challenge by Scripture Union international.

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StuSwensen In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2019-02-07 11:13:14 +0000 UTC]

I like the line art, colors and over all feel .... very nice.

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to StuSwensen [2019-02-07 23:00:43 +0000 UTC]

Thanks very much.

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to TheRealKlandagi [2018-08-28 12:23:48 +0000 UTC]

Thank you very much!

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to Cyraka [2018-08-11 02:43:41 +0000 UTC]

Wow, thank you, that means a lot to me. God is good.

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to AndrewDent [2018-07-02 02:27:01 +0000 UTC]

Thanks so much.

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AndrewDent In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2018-07-02 02:48:17 +0000 UTC]

You’re welcome

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to shunter071 [2018-05-13 22:46:45 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm glad you like my work!

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shunter071 In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2018-05-14 02:48:08 +0000 UTC]

Anytime!

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to uncledon [2018-02-07 23:07:07 +0000 UTC]

I focus on the pleasing aspects because my illustrations are for kids, not adults. 

It's okay to disagree, although I think you're missing the most important thing, which is that Jesus loved us all so much that he died for our sake, and preached forgiveness, grace and redemption.

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to uncledon [2018-02-07 22:59:41 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for letting me know and doing the right thing.

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uncledon In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2018-02-09 17:39:29 +0000 UTC]

Unfortunately I do not completely accept your claim that “I focus on the pleasing aspects because my illustrations are for kids, not adults” when you draw and post images such as ‘Gideon: the original 300’ that displays the violence of war and slaughter something I am more than familiar with after 22 years’ service in the US Marines starting in Vietnam. There you assert that this was “WAY before the Spartans tried it” when in fact you have no idea as to when or where that alleged battle was supposed to have taken place and are merely pretending that you do since the only place that this event is mentioned at all is in the bible. There is nothing in the archaeological record or any extra biblical sources that confirms the existence of this person or any such battle. However there is a wealth of objective, verified documentation from several early Greek states as well as the records from the Persian Empire itself confirming that the Battle of Thermopylae took place in a specific location in August or September of 480 BCE.

As this is a well-documented fact that has serious supporting materials backing it up and the myth you are asserting is real has nothing but a story in a book well-documented to by extremely out of sync with reality your claim is dismissed. In general circles something of this sort is called purposeful deception based on mythological belief or more commonly termed ‘l***g for jesus’ in various circles.

If you are offended by that phrase then by all means please present verifiable extra-biblical sources that demonstrate that the book of Judges chapters 6-8 relate events based in objective reality and I will be more than happy to apology in the most profound terms.

Furthermore I think that you are not being completely honest considering the content of ‘Crucifixion Page Colour’ where you graphically display torture and a crucifixion which is among the most barbaric forms of execution alongside of the stoning to death commonly prescribed throughout your book. However you cannot avoid presenting this tale of monstrous barbarism as without it you cannot sell the idea on which your entire mythology is founded, that of magical resurrection, now can you? Or do you apply further deception and perhaps downplay the real extent of the fable so as not to scare off your future converts by telling them ‘well the Romans teased and mocked jesus before they tied [more spin right] him to the cross and after a while he died of…a heart attack like grandpa, yeah that’s it’?

This is part of a ‘comic’ so who was the intended audience I ask? At what age do you think this is appropriate after you have spoon fed impressionable children with the fabricated myths that your ideology is based on until they cannot think outside the box at all? Sorry but I see this as a clear indication that you were not entirely ‘honest’ shall we say but only partially so at best. I am not directly accusing you but from what I see as some significant flaws in your remarks.

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uncledon In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2018-02-08 10:30:41 +0000 UTC]

“I focus on the pleasing aspects because my illustrations are for kids, not adults.”

That was exactly the point I raised in my original comment asking if you were being open and fair but then you are not are you.

So you are aiding in childhood indoctrination by presenting a biased and flawed perspective in order to lull them into accepting the ideology under false pretense before they likely have reached the age of reason. Unless you are willing to present the full and complete breadth of the ideology you are in reality misleading them in order to perpetuate the mythology and maintain its power. You are acting in a false manner, offering what can only be described as ‘bearing false witness’ which according to your most basic tenets is a major sin.

Though you likely have manufactured a means to convince yourself that it isn’t or that doing so is ‘doing god’s work’.

1 Samuel 15:1-35

“And Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” So Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand men on foot, and ten thousand men of Judah. And Saul came to the city of Amalek and lay in wait in the valley.”

You’re not going to tell your audience of little kids  that your deity ordered people to “kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey” are you? That might show them what they’re really getting into and give them the ‘wrong idea’.

Judges 11 : 30 - 39

“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon. When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.” “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.” “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.”

I most seriously doubt that you are going to tell them that your ‘god’ makes bargains that involve human sacrifice now are you? Please spare me any apologetics trying to spin this into what it is not because I have read the original Torah verse with a rabbi and if as you likely would claim this creature is omnipotent, all-knowing, then it had to know that Jephthah’s daughter would be what he first saw and you cannot have it both ways. Either this ‘god’ accepted a human sacrifice or the claim that it knows everything is a fraud.

Take your pick.

Luke 19:27

“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”

I doubt you’d even allow them to read anything in that book terrified that might come across such passages without an apologist at hand to either stop them or to spin it into something entirely different.

I always ask people such as you if this is the ‘good book’ as they claim would they then allow me to read whatever I want to their small impressionable children. To date not one has ever accepted that challenge and very few even bother to respond preferring to play the exact same game you are involved in which is willful deception and biased indoctrination.

“It's okay to disagree, although I think you're missing the most important thing, which is that Jesus loved us all so much that he died for our sake, and preached forgiveness, grace and redemption.”

Yes, that is the myth but before you assert to me that it is real as you have done as well as by implication suggesting that I must accept this fantasy as real; i.e., claiming “that he died for our sake”, you must now provide a precise, objective, rational, verifiable demonstration in front of several reliable witness under clinical conditions while being recorded for further analysis that this being does in fact exist replete with the panoply of supernatural magical power it is claimed to possess. This cannot simply devolve into completely subjective rhetorical arguments that does not conform to the previously stated conditions as such does not meet them and is totally dependent on subjective acceptance of the premise under investigation as well as being able to be applied to any other invented deity part of another mythology.

Can you do these things or are you merely attempting to state your opinions / beliefs in a manner that implies they are real while asking everyone else to accept this without good reason?

To assert that I am “missing the most important thing” when that is little more than a baseless assertion founded solely on your blind faith in an unsubstantiated mythology in a ploy I find to be extremely presumptuous and improper. Yours is no different from the hundreds of similar ones that you ignore, dismiss and reject for no other apparent reason than this is the one you were indoctrinated into likely before you reached the age of reason and which you are aiding and abetting I might add.

You are in effect claiming without justification that I have no understanding of the fundamental premises of your ideology because I have dared to not swallow it wholesale and openly question its very foundational ideas. I have read your book from cover to cover along with nearly all of those of the other major religious mythologies and many of the minor ones. No rather I see the inherent evil stated clearly in your book and most others but we are speaking of yours as the direct characteristics of the alleged ‘god’ repeated over and again. I have viewed the immoral and unethical actions of great segments of your sect using the same type of cherry-picked passages to prop up their conduct as you do with nothing less than disgust. And I see the deceptive tactics such as you are using to feed children slanted propaganda rather than the full story to be ample reasons to ignore this fictional mythology and speak out against it.

“Thanks for letting me know and doing the right thing.”

My secularly derived, non-biblically founded, humanistic based ethics developed through careful reasoning provided me with no other option but to do so.

While the alleged ‘morals’ derived from the book you likely claim is the sole source of such offers nothing of the kind except ideas that are command fiat which could be changed on a whim as well as a ‘trump card’ to avoid taking such responsibility in reality or even considering that making an attempt to right one’s wrongs is even necessary. I speak of the rather petty construct of ‘forgiveness through prayer’ which is little more that talking to yourself, as clinical MRI studies have clearly demonstrated, to ask yourself if everything is okay then patting yourself on the back to congratulate yourself for a job well done when you did nothing at all.

If that sounds condescending then I point out that your previous remarks where you had the temerity to assert without cause or justification that your mythology is real and includes me regardless of my views on the matter. Sadly that is the exact same type of inherent religious supremacy that is but a small step away from religious intolerance and in fact bigotry which has and is responsible for the majority of the evil that has been the history of mankind. The idea that you can assert such when it quite clear that I have exactly zero interest in such ideas and fables shows that you are in fact trying to force feed others your views even if in a polite manner.

Do you smile and agree when a Muslim says that to you? Or a Mormon, provided you aren’t one? Or a…well the list is rather long.

I doubt that as at best you’d tell them that they’re wrong or more likely launch into a sermon as to how yours in the ‘one true faith’ and they need to get down on their knees and beg forgiveness for what amount to thinking for themselves.

Now, although I have a very, very good idea as to your likely response, are you going to do “the right thing” and start providing children with the real and full story or are you going to continue presenting them only with deceptive propaganda in effect ‘lying to them for the faith’?

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to uncledon [2018-02-22 08:16:38 +0000 UTC]

Wow, nice essay. Your writing suggests that you're pretty smart. Good on you for doing your research, it's almost refreshing to have someone slam my beliefs when they've actually read the book they're criticising; I'd much rather that than the usual 'your beliefs suck because I said so' crap that usually happens.

Anyway, my response isn't going to be as in depth as yours, because for one thing I doubt that anything I write will change your mind, and for another thing I just don't feel like spending too much time on this, I'd rather be drawing or spending time with my family. So here's just a few real quick notes, more to prove that I read what you wrote than to try and come up with an awesome and irrefutable rebuttal (sounds like you enjoy a good rebuttal).

1. Yeah you made a good point, not all of my art is for little kids, some is for teenagers and adults. I could have been more clear on that, and would have if I'd known how much you'd tear apart my answer So yes you're right, well done, MOST of my biblical art is for young children, but SOME of it is for more mature audiences. Maybe one day I'll deal with some more mature themes in my art for a more mature audience.

2. EVERYONE indoctrinates other people, both kids and adults, with their beliefs, on some level, whether they are doing it consciously or not. Even you. Even Saturday morning cartoons or the evening news are toting belief systems. I'm not doing anything wrong by sharing my beliefs, and if you think I am then you're a hypocrite, because you're sharing yours.

3. I've read the Bible from front to back too, did it when I turned 18 and decided I needed to fill in the gaps in my knowledge and decide whether my parents' beliefs would remain mine also. I had a lot of questions. I STILL have a lot of questions. I confess I'm not one of those Christians whose faith and belief is rock solid and unshakable. Fact is, sometimes I'm downright angry at God. But in the end I accept that the being who made the Universe knows a thing or two more than I do. Also I love Jesus. Sidenote: there's more written evidence that Jesus existed than there is that Julius Ceasar existed. Jesus, who preached love, grace, mercy, kindness, forgiveness etc. followed the God of the Old Testament, never once saying that God was wrong. It's interesting. I admit that a lot of the Old Testament events churn my stomach and fill me with questions as to why. I don't have all the answers, far from it.

4. I respect your service in the US marines, you obviously know more about the first hand horrors of war than I do, since I know nothing of that and can only imagine and try to understand what I'm told about it. 

5. There's guys that are way smarter than me that are much more worth your time if you want a challenging dialogue/debate. You could check out Josh McDowell, a staunch atheist turned Christian, William Lane Craig's reasonable faith website, Lee Strobel's apologetics, or even good old C.S.Lewis. Any of those guys are much smarter and wiser than I, and more inclined to challenge your intelligence than my simple fare (that is, if you really are after answers rather than just bent on going around on people's pages telling them how wrong they are with your big words).

Your writing gives me the impression you're angry, or maybe just hot under the collar, and if you're angry because you believe that I'm deliberately misleading people, then I don't mind your anger, because I too get angry when I believe people are being deliberately false. But I don't go around slamming people simply for having a different belief system to me, it's their choice. If you're hammering at me here on my page simply because I'm sharing what I honestly believe, you need to chill out.

I believe in being honest, but I also believe that children's minds are not yet ready to cope with/fully comprehend certain realities of this world such as sexual abuse, horrific murder etc. My art is not an attempt to deceive them or hide the truth, I'm simply withholding information that is best processed by a mature and grownup mind that will understand it better. Kinda the same reason I wouldn't want a child to watch an R-rated movie, and yeah, the Old Testament gets pretty R-rated, but I've already explained that to my own kids and am fully prepared to discuss such things with them if they come across such reading. In the meantime I'm not gonna be going 'hey Johnny, one time these guys raped a woman to death, then her husband chopped her up and sent her parts to the different tribes of Israel in order to muster up retaliation! Why do you think God lets those things happen, huh?!? Well, sweet dreams kiddo!'

P.S I won't go into it, because it's time for dinner, but Gideon was waaay before 480 BC, dude.

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2018-02-27 14:51:19 +0000 UTC]

First of all, the reason I post my art here is to share my art with people who actually want to see it, and I like looking at other people's art and leaving positive feedback. You seem to have mistaken it for a forum for debate on beliefs. I'm not sure why you feel the need to air your opinions on my page, especially after using one of my illustrations for your own sub-mediocre work. I feel simultaneously sorry for you and annoyed at your arrogant, opinionated way of writing, where you make personal insults while claiming to be objective.

"I have critiqued your flawed and false assertions derived from those beliefs and have not attacked them other than to state my personal opinions at times." I didn't say you attacked my beliefs, I said you slammed them, which you did. Though at least you're finally admitting that you have added your personal opinions. Those opinions are not objective, they smack of prejudice.

"However like most within your sect you cannot distinguish between the two and view anything that does not immediately conform to your view as an attack on them playing the foolish ‘persecution’ card at every opportunity". What a ridiculous, generalising and arrogant statement. Once again, I didn't say you were attacking me, they are your words not mine, and I find your broad sweeping accusations laughable and ignorant. If you want to be taken seriously, maybe consider toning down your insults before claiming that you're not 'attacking' anyone. Are you seriously going to tell me that you're not trying to be insulting?

"When you purposefully hide the rampant evil... in order to feed children propaganda intended to warp their minds before they have reached the age of reason for the sole purpose of brainwashing them into the cult you are committing a vile act and it is you who is being hypocritical." Nope, I'm not being hypocritical by sharing what I believe to be true. A child's mind would become truly warped if fed imagery it's not ready to process. Garbage in, garbage out. If, for example, my children asked me about war, I would tell them about war and not lie, but I would not go as far as to force them to view gratuitous and graphically disturbing images of blown up people, until they're older and choose for themselves to view that kind of thing, as I would consider those images harmful to their psyche at a young age. That's not lying or brainwashing, that's being a responsible adult. I consider people who feed children R-rated information and imagery to be the ones actually committing a vile act. And once again, what you consider to be 'propaganda', I consider to be the truth. I'm not 'lying for Jesus', I'm adhering to his teachings, or at least I'm trying to, but every now and then when people like you come at me claiming they're not attacking me while simultaneously calling my beliefs and actions 'vile' 'primitive', 'barbaric' etc., I admit my thoughts about such people are far inferior to what Jesus taught us to think and feel, although I definitely pity you. And by the way, I and every Christian I know personally despise the evil things that evil people have done in the name of Christianity, including the ones who colluded in hiding the truth. I'm not going to get into whether those evildoers are true Christians or fake, as that doesn't seem to matter to you, but evil things are done by people who call themselves Christians, and evil things are done by people who don't. Surely we can both agree though that Jesus abhorred such evil and taught against it.

"...you could not resist your psychological need to force feed all those you come in contact with your mythological beliefs...in response to my simple point of informing you that I had used one of your works." You're right that I couldn't resist, but again you're showing your hypocrisy, as you in fact were the first to fail in resisting your own psychological need to 'force feed' your beliefs when you first contacted me. You didn't merely say that you had used my art, no, you could have stopped there but you couldn't seem to help adding that our beliefs were on opposite sides of the spectrum, and that I 'focus solely on the 'pleasing' aspects of the ideology an avoid such very unpleasant segments as 1 Samuel 15:1-35...' etc. That is what prompted my 'psychological need' to pipe up with my own opinion. And while I'm at it, if you're so adverse to my faith and beliefs, why did you use my art? You could easily have found some other centurion; I question your motivation for choosing my art, knowing that I'm a Christian, and then leaving a comment on my page giving me 'food for thought'. Your 'simple point of informing you that I had used one of your works' was no such thing, you also used it as an opportunity to put forward your opinion and belief. As I can't read your mind, I'll not speculate on whether you did so to pick a fight, or whether you genuinely altruistically were hoping to help me by your words. Besides, it's obvious that as soon as I suggest that you may have been baiting me for a war of words, you will come back with your claim that I, as all other Christians, am playing the persecuted victim card again.
Also, I didn't say that you're angry at God, once again you're twisting my words and inserting your own. I said your writing gives me the impression you're angry. I didn't say what you're angry at, although I do wonder whether you show this level of abhorrence with all things that you perceive as vile and deceptive, or whether you have a special intense dislike for Christianity. I'm attempting somewhat to understand your position. If your dislike stems from a hatred of deliberate deceit and falsehood, then I can understand that, because although our beliefs are pretty much opposite, I also dislike lies and deceit. (Please don't use that as another excuse to go off on another 'then why are you deliberately deceiving people' tirade.) And yes, you have made insulting remarks while pretending to only state facts, so please don't further insult both our intelligences by pretending you haven't. I only have to go as far as your use of the word 'vile' to show that your comments have not remained dispassionately objective and factual but have in fact inserted personal feelings, and everyone knows that having your faith, beliefs and actions classified as vile is an insult. I could go through and quote every other insult you've made but there's no need.

"I am not ‘hammering’ you but making clear, well-reasoned arguments regarding your false claims and deceptive conduct that you cannot validate and have admitted to." I admit to no such thing, I simply choose to use my time in other ways rather than casting pearls before swine. Once again, this site is meant to be a place to share art, not a forum for challenging people's ideologies; you chose to look at my art and be offended by it and then leave a comment on my page that stated our beliefs are opposite etc. That's called baiting. You could have just used my centurion picture that you like, let me know you'd used it and left it at that, but no, you had to throw down your little 'food for thought' too, didn't you? And then I said it's okay to disagree, which was intended to say that I took no offence to what you'd written, I didn't mind you saying that our beliefs were opposite, and then I merely left my own food for thought, as I'm more than entitled to do on my own page, and it was not written with the intention of causing a debate or argument, and yet here we are, because you insist on using this site as a place to tell people that you find their faith and actions vile. There's plenty of art on this site that I find vile and abhorrent, and fortunately the settings that I have in place block it pretty well, but I don't think it would do anyone any good for me to go onto the pages of those who post art that I object to and start explaining to them that they're wrong, no matter how objective I pretend to be. I'm therefore baffled as to your motivation here. Are you genuinely trying to enlighten me and help me see the error of my ways?? Because if so then you've chosen a pretty insulting and accusatory way of doing so, choosing to insert scathing words like 'pretentious' and 'foolish' etc., which is a surefire way of getting people not to consider your points objectively. It gives the distinct impression that you're not trying to convince me, you're just trying to win an argument that you started. 

"I dismiss your pretentious implication that they will be given the ‘full story’ at a later date." Dismiss away. It's not my doing that many people choose not to read the information that is freely there to read, I'm not hiding bibles from them. I encourage people to read the Bible in its entirety, warts and all, otherwise we are indeed only getting part of the complete story. The book is there to read, I am stopping no-one from accessing that information. I hope that my pictures encourage children to get hold of a bible and read it, or have their parents read it to them so that their parents can explain the bits that are hard to understand. My children have their own bibles that they are free to read, and we've already had some discussion about some crazy stuff like what went down in Sodom and Gomorra, without going into gratuitous detail about the specifics of the evil deeds. Children don't need gory details of what the people were doing in that instance in order to understand that what people were doing was so evil that they were wiped out for it.

I admit I have no idea whether there are sources outside of the Bible that back up the story of Gideon, however the Bible itself has enough stories that have been proven accurate in their details many times by archeological discoveries, so I trust in the validity of this one. And I really did have to go to dinner when I wrote that, it was getting cold and my family was waiting, so accusing me of being false there as though you yourself were God and could see my every move just shows how subjective and opinionated you have let your arguments become. 

I'm of the opinion that there's better things to be doing with our time than arguing our beliefs on this site, and though you've made it clear how little you think of my opinions and beliefs, perhaps there's something better that you could be spending your time on? I'm done with this discussion, although I'm sure you'll have some more to write just to put me in my place (I dare you to prove me wrong by not commenting).

But hey, feel free to drop by and view my vile, deceitful art anytime.
'Food for thought'.










 
 

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uncledon In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2018-03-09 05:05:43 +0000 UTC]

“I'm not sure why you feel the need to air your opinions on my page, especially after using one of my illustrations for your own sub-mediocre work.”

I informed you of my use and you answered by asserting that your mythological ideas are real by saying “although I think you're missing the most important thing, which is that Jesus loved us all so much that he died for our sake, and preached forgiveness, grace and redemption” as if that is a fact rather than just an opinion.

Your attempt at juvenile denigration, ‘your own sub-mediocre work’, when you later whine that you have been insulted is a clear case of the standard christian double standard. You are engaging in the same thing you have protested against which is rather absurd.

I could as well ask why you feel the ‘need’ to preach your opinion to the world, yes that is the case on a public forum open to all and linked to a global search engine, other than it is a tenet of your beliefs to convert everyone whether they want it or not as your scripture also pointedly denigrates and makes inferior all those you do not accept your mythology.
Actually your critic of my "sub-mediocre work" without stating anything specific seems somewhat immature coming from a person who draw cartoon caricatures of ancient myths in order to feed children sweet platitudes well off the reality of the ideology. Or were you just giving in to some 'non-christian' thoughts?

“I feel simultaneously sorry for you and annoyed at your arrogant, opinionated way of writing”

I find that rather pompous and duplicitous when you are asserting that your opinions regarding an ancient, primitive mythology is a reality when there is nothing to support that claim. I find your ‘pity’ to be little more than a self-serving ploy to express your ‘superiority’ by virtue of faith in my opinion. You have made numerous opinionated statements even going so far as to assert without a shred of evidence that merely because an ancient book contains some tale that is not confirmed by any other source it is therefore real merely because you keep saying that it is.

“where you make personal insults while claiming to be objective.”

As you have not even attempted to support this assertion with evidence, as you have with your parting shot regarding Gideon, this is dismissed as meaningless.

“I didn't say you attacked my beliefs, I said you slammed them, which you did. Though at least you're finally admitting that you have added your personal opinions.”

Which is my right under the guarantees of freedom of expression or are you also trying to assert the christian concept that only members of your sect are so entitled. Additionally in context those two words mean essentially the same thing in general usage and I think to are playing to trivia.

“Those opinions are not objective, they smack of prejudice.”

But your assertions regarding irrational, unsubstantiated, magical mythology is completely unbiased and totally objectively, is that what you are implying because if it is then you have very little grasp as to what those concepts mean in my opinion. To my mind you are attempting to set up a double standard that favors your position as a great many christians do.

“What a ridiculous, generalising and arrogant statement. Once again, I didn't say you were attacking me, they are your words not mine, and I find your broad sweeping accusations laughable and ignorant.”

That is your choice but the common experience, yes a generalization but one supported by personal experience as well as much objective evidence taken from reality, is that most christians do in fact see any and all questioning of their beliefs as a direct and personal attack which it what you appeared to be doing. If not the case then perhaps you are due an apology for an erroneous assessment.

However the type of unsupported assertions that you have in fact made on several occasions but failed to provide any supporting evidence other than rhetorical argumentation and baseless if not blatantly fraudulent creationist propaganda in the form of the laughable claim that “there's more written evidence that Jesus existed than there is that Julius Ceasar existed” does tend to validate some of that contention.

So when you state that my assessment was incorrect as that was not your position due to some material you offer you can also state that your claim regarding said first century biblical character was incorrect as the evidence does not support it at all.

I am afraid that you do not get one without the other.

“If you want to be taken seriously, maybe consider toning down your insults before claiming that you're not 'attacking' anyone. Are you seriously going to tell me that you're not trying to be insulting?”

Yes I am and now it is you who are making unsupported claims that your opinion is fact. If you took these remarks as insults that is your right but you do not get to assert as fact that was my intention which is what you are doing. You could have stated your alleged offense and discussed the matter but here you are the one being ignorant and making sweeping accusations not based in fact.

“Nope, I'm not being hypocritical…committing a vile act.”

Sorry but I see this entire segment as just an extension of your prior attempt to manufacture an excuse to justify the deception you are perpetrating on children to sell them a false ideology under the guise of protecting their sensitive minds. You are in fact hiding the truth which is by definition propaganda so that you can indoctrinate them into a false view of the ideology whether or not you believe in it. as stated you would not accept a Muslim or a Communist acting in the same manner as you are doing and would likely be in the streets shouting for it to be forcibly ended using almost the same ideas that I have offered. I note that you have ignored that point most likely because you understand that to touch it would show the hypocrisy of your claims here.

The honest thing to do as I have stated is to wait until they reach an age when they can in fact understand the entire story but I assume that you know full well as almost every apologist does that if you do that and forgo this indoctrination through biased material then they will predominantly reject the ideology because it is filled with vile and barbaric concepts. Yes I place you in that category which is by definition propaganda defined as ‘information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view, i.e. religious ideology’ and in the Cambridge Dictionary as “information, ideas, opinions, or images, often only giving one part of an argument, that are broadcast, published, or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people's opinions’. So yes that is what you are doing whether you accept the fact or not and to create a biased and self-serving excuse that boils down in my opinion to just saying ‘I’m doing god’s work so anything is justified’ is very repugnant.

So I ask if I can use the exact same tactics and logic as you are using to present a flawed and skewed version of another religion to the same children as you are addressing if I truly ‘believe’ as you do? That is the claim you’re making is it not?

“And once again, what you consider to be 'propaganda', I consider to be the truth.”

Yet what is true is what can be demonstrated to be in concordance with reality and there is almost nothing in your belief system that is so demonstrated. If it were then there would not be this type of discourse and rather than merely waving your arm in the arm making a vague and useless assertion regarding some biblical fable you’d have cited at least some of the vast wealth of verified evidence supporting it. Therefore regardless of what you believe it is not ‘true’ and you understand this which is why you have dodged the issue of how you view all other faiths based solely on belief as you appear to understand that if you do address those issues you will be showing just how biased and untenable your position is.

Evidence, objective and verifiable evidence is what makes something true not belief as you wish to assert because if that were the case you have just stated that all other religions past and present as just as ‘true’ as your because people believe in them.

Rational thinking and logic as damned pesky things aren’t they?

“I'm not 'lying for Jesus', I'm adhering to his teachings, or at least I'm trying to”

Then please by all means cite the scripture where he said ‘hide the truth if it furthers you goals’ or words to that effect.

“but every now and then when people like you come at me claiming they're not attacking me while simultaneously calling my beliefs and actions 'vile' 'primitive', 'barbaric' etc.,”

Now you have used that term so my earlier use of it appears to be justified.

Yes in fact I have and will continue to state very openly that if you believe in the bible, as you have stated that you do, then you also most accept that you believe that the bible condones and codifies slavery; orders that adulterers, brides who aren’t virgins, witches, people who disobey the priests and unruly children must be killed in the most barbaric and brutal manner possible [stoning], that genocidal warfare was commanded by your ‘god’ through its ‘prophets’ on several occasions, that your ‘god’ makes bargains involving human sacrifice, that it allows rapists to go unpunished if they pay off their victim’s father who will force the girl to marry her abuser and so forth almost ad infinitum. If you do not think these are vile, primitive, barbaric concepts then sir I think you are living in the wrong millennium or that you have deluded yourself into believing that because it’s a god it can do whatever it wants and you must then think that its ‘good’.

I really do not care if you find that ‘offensive’ that someone points out the abominable contents of the book on which your beliefs are founded as that is the reality of the situation whether you like it or not.

“I admit my thoughts about such people are far inferior to what Jesus taught us to think and feel, although I definitely pity you.”

Whom you have not demonstrated in real and therefore could not have taught anything but you simply continue to assert that because you believe it is somehow made real through faith..

“And by the way, I and every Christian I know personally despise the evil things that evil people have done in the name of Christianity, including the ones who colluded in hiding the truth.”

Yet that is exactly what you are doing while creating what I consider to be lengthy excuses to whitewash the fact. This is called in psychology ‘cognitive dissonance’, the holding of diametrically opposing views on the same issue as you claim to ‘despise hiding the truth’ then manufacture lengthy excuses for doing exactly that same thing to mislead children.

“Surely we can both agree though that Jesus abhorred such evil and taught against it.”

Just as soon as you stop asserting that this person is real merely because you say they are, stop trying to force that mythological nonsense onto me by such fraudulent tactics and demonstrate that said character was real as well as being a supernatural demi-god. You do not get to just assert something like this and then imply that I must agree with you on an associated but unsupported claim which you have done now repeatedly.

I have asked you for the evidence to support your several positive claims yet you offer only rhetoric, unsupported biblical ideas and even greater claims none of which is supported by evidence. That is nothing more than opinionated, biased christian apologetics at its core and does not substantiate your claims as either real or true.

“You're right that I couldn't resist, but again you're showing your hypocrisy, as you in fact were the first to fail in resisting your own psychological need to 'force feed' your beliefs when you first contacted me.”

That is incorrect as I did not in any manner state my belief of any kind but stated and I quote “While I might disagree [no statement as to what the issue might be] I think that you are talented and expressive as well as moderate if you do focus solely on the 'pleasing' aspects of the ideology an avoid such very unpleasant segments as 1 Samuel 15:1-35, Judges 11 : 30 - 39 or Luke 19:27.” What I see here is you attempting to portray yourself as the victim applying the christian ploy of claiming ‘persecution’ or a subtle variant of that idea whenever anyone starts questioning the belief system.

That question is a valid one which you are now trying to assert had ulterior motives that you cannot justify.

“but you couldn't seem to help adding that our beliefs were on opposite sides of the spectrum”

Which is nowhere near to the mark but is a very slanted- revision to elevate your case. I said as stated above “while we might disagree” that you are now trying to inflate beyond all reasonable terms.

“You could easily have found some other centurion; I question your motivation for choosing my art, knowing that I'm a Christian, and then leaving a comment on my page giving me 'food for thought'.”

In point of fact I obtained it through a Google search and did not learn of your views until I came here to inform you of its use. so question all you like but you again you are only expressing an opinion that is not based in fact.

“Your 'simple point of informing you that I had used one of your works' was no such thing, you also used it as an opportunity to put forward your opinion and belief.”

Again you are asserting that your ‘superpowers’ are at work and you can state with complete confidence that you know my motivations rather than trying to ask what they were. I thought that a Roman recruiting posture might be amusing and your work was far and above the best for the idea I had in mind. Nothing in it shows either dismissal or disrespect to your beliefs and was created before I even learned of them. So as politely as possible take your baseless assertion that you have been divinely gifted with ultimate knowledge of my motivations and shove them.

“As I can't read your mind, I'll not speculate on whether you did so to pick a fight, or whether you genuinely altruistically were hoping to help me by your words.”

Yet that is precisely what you have just done and apparently are now trying to sugar coat it though I could be wrong. You made exact and clear statements not caveated in any way that you know I came looking for a fight yet are not trying to whitewash it to make yourself look good. Deception is part of the christian ideology as documented in your bible and yes I can in context cite the scripture.

“Besides, it's obvious that as soon as I suggest that you may have been baiting me for a war of words, you will come back with your claim that I, as all other Christians, am playing the persecuted victim card again.”

Not unless that is how you phrase it or make the claim.

“Also, I didn't say that you're angry at God, once again you're twisting my words and inserting your own. I said your writing gives me the impression you're angry. I didn't say what you're angry at, although I do wonder whether you show this level of abhorrence with all things that you perceive as vile and deceptive, or whether you have a special intense dislike for Christianity.”

No, you did not use that exact phrase but then most christians in the public forum have learned to remain vague and ambiguous so that they cannot be pinned down on such issues in order to later imply that they are in fact being persecuted. It is a common semantics game.

At the risk of violating my own previous remark I must ask what other issue could you be making reference to except your ‘god’ when I had been completely moderate, rather polite in expressing my opinions and had not once resorted to any hostile or profane verbiage. That you find my use of terms like ‘vile’ and ‘barbaric’ to be ‘offensive’ does not support any assessment that I am angry as the concepts of slavery, misogyny, wanton mass murder and genocide as related in that book should be seen as vile, barbaric abominations by any rational person regardless of their beliefs and personally if you think that because they are claimed to be the handiwork of a supernatural being that you cannot show is real makes those stories ‘A-okay’ then I am sorry but in my opinion you’re are neither rational or ethical.

I have no more distaste for the christian mythology than I do for any other baseless ancient superstition claimed to be real when nothing validates that idea. I find it as ludicrous and irrational as all such baseless primitive mythologies including the modern ones such as ancient aliens, Atlantis or paranormal ideologies regardless of the numbers of people who follow it.

“If your dislike stems from a hatred of deliberate deceit and falsehood, then I can understand that, because although our beliefs are pretty much opposite, I also dislike lies and deceit.”

My distaste does in fact stem from a “deliberate deceit and falsehood” but it is not ‘hatred. It is the deceit of people asserting that what they believe is real merely because they believe it even when they admit they cannot in any way demonstrate that it is.

“(Please don't use that as another excuse to go off on another 'then why are you deliberately deceiving people' tirade.)”

I yield to your reasonable request provided you do not present another lengthy excuse that you are not in fact using propaganda to falsely indoctrinate children with a flawed and deceptive ideology. Again one request for such must \be matched by one in return otherwise it is not a reasonable or fair request.

“And yes, you have made insulting remarks while pretending to only state facts, so please don't further insult both our intelligences by pretending you haven't.’

Then why rather that stating one or two do you make this type of vague and useless arm wave towards the open window. When I have made such remarks I cite case examples which if you cannot do then yes I dismiss this as a flawed remark.

“I only have to go as far as your use of the word 'vile' to show that your comments have not remained dispassionately objective and factual but have in fact inserted personal feelings, and everyone knows that having your faith, beliefs and actions classified as vile is an insult.’

An insult is something directed at a person not an idea and as I have only used the terms ‘vile, primitive or barbaric’ in regards to the ideas, stories, fables and myths contained in the bible you cannot in good conscious take them as an insult without invalidating your earlier protest against being unable to distinguish between yourself as a person and your beliefs. This is because you are now trying to claim that by using these terms with regards to the contents of a book because you revere that book I am insulting you.

Have I said that you are vile, primitive or barbaric? No, therefore you have not been insulted in any manner though I see how you might feel that way which does in a sense validate that contention I made as you appear to equate your beliefs with yourself viewing any questioning of them as something of a personal attack.

So in effect I accept that you might feel this way but I reject it as you have not shown that I used those terms directed at you as a person and one cannot insult anything but a person which include beliefs and books.

“I could go through and quote every other insult you've made but there's no need.”

Sadly to me that is the same useless assertion of the type you threw out in passing regarding Gideon. If you cannot do nothing but assert that such is the case without even the slightest attempt to support it then the claim is judged empty and dismissed. Sorry but that is how reality works.

“I admit to no such thing”

Perhaps my choice of words was not completely accurate in the latter regard but I stand by my assessment regarding your claims. Without the requested evidence that you have so far failed to present they are false regardless of your beliefs as one cannot positively assert something then fail to support that assertion with facts. Believe whatever you like but claiming it real because and only because you do is a false claim.

“You could have just used my centurion picture that you like, let me know you'd used it and left it at that, but no, you had to throw down your little 'food for thought' too, didn't you?”

Perhaps and you had to assert that I am subject to your ancient mythology disregarding my rights and views on the matter didn’t you?

There we’ve covered this ground before so what is you point here?

“And then I said it's okay to disagree, which was intended to say that I took no offence to what you'd written”

No you stated other empty christian claims designed not to do this but to further falsely assert that evidence which does not exist validates your mythology as well as three of the biggest christian apologetic frauds there are. As if their personal creations of rhetorical games and religious song and dance was actual evidence.

“I didn't mind you saying that our beliefs were opposite”

Again that is not what I said and you are still attempting to overinflate what I did to exaggerate the point.

“as I'm more than entitled to do on my own page, and it was not written with the intention of causing a debate or argument”

Yes you are fully entitled to do as you like here within the site’s guidelines. Yet you have the option of closing off comments but you choose not to do so welcoming all who follow your ideology and offer you praise for being part of the sect. you cannot therefore make a complaint that you do not appreciate counter argument because it demonstrates the invalidity of your biased and empty assertions that it’s all true because you say it is even though reality does not support that contention.

If you don’t want people expressing anything but ideas that you like then stay at home and close off all comment on your page. To do as you are doing in my opinion smacks of an effort to stifle des cent which is a hallmark of the christian sect throughout its existence.

“and yet here we are, because you insist on using this site as a place to tell people that you find their faith and actions vile.”

No because I insist on pointing out your false claims that biblical myths are real just because you believe they are when there is no evidence supporting them even after you have stated positively that there is. As well as pointing out that you are engaged in what I see as a form of child abuse by using false propaganda to delude and indoctrinate them into accepting ideas that in total are vile, primitive and barbaric.

Again if all you wish to hear is other christian patting you on the back then don’t have an open site. I have on and allowing anyone to comment on why they find what I have said to be ‘wrong’ without ‘whining’ that this isn’t what I want to hear as you are doing. I engage them in the same manner as I have with you; reasonable, moderately and expressing my opinions in a dispassionate manner yet not holding back my opinions regarding their ideas as you have implied I should do because you don’t like hearing people disparage your mythology.

“Children don't need gory details of what the people were doing in that instance in order to understand that what people were doing was so evil that they were wiped out for it.”

They also don’t need pretty fables that avoid dealing with the dark and evil reality hiding behind the flower beds waiting to be sprung on them after they have been led down the primrose path by a wolf in sheep’s clothing. And that is what you have admitted to be doing.

“I admit I have no idea whether there are sources outside of the Bible that back up the story of Gideon, however the Bible itself has enough stories that have been proven accurate in their details many times by archeological discoveries, so I trust in the validity of this one.”

Sadly this is just you trying to stack another empty assertion of unspecified and non-existent evidence on top of the first one to manufacture a greater illusion that there really is evidence. If you cannot, and I seriously doubt that you can other than perhaps pointing towards some creationist website, state even the most modest of evidence in this regard I must politely state that you are offering more meaningless assertions that have no basis in fact.

Although my profession is as a geologist in various sub-disciplines I am an amateur archaeologist and have dealt with these endless claims of ‘archaeology has confirmed scripture’ for over thirty years. This has included all of the idiotic nonsense put forth by the christian charlatan Ron Wyatt who claimed to have discovered every biblical site and artifact yet never produced a single piece of evidence and has been clearly chow to be a fraud but the Israeli Archaeology Authority and others. The pathetic and flawed ‘Patterns of Evidence’ book claiming to have proven that the biblical legend of the Exodus is real by Timothy Mohoney and a great many others.

So by all means eat dinner get some rest and then tell me what these finds are or not but if you don’t then you’ll have to live with the fact that you can’t back up these claims on which your beliefs seem to rest.

“And I really did have to go to dinner when I wrote that, it was getting cold and my family was waiting, so accusing me of being false there as though you yourself were God and could see my every move just shows how subjective and opinionated you have let your arguments become.”

Then tossing out that closing assertion that you now say you do not possess evidence to support might have been unwarranted if not overly impractical. Asserting again that I am opinionated as a veiled implication that you are not is very biased if not completed prejudicial as you have based your arguments and replies entirely on your beliefs which are only unsubstantiated opinions without verified evidence to back them up. Of which to date you have shown none.

At this point I must remark that since you have made no reply or comment regarding the wealth of evidence I presented refuting your assertion that jesus is better documented than Julius Caesar you are tacitly accepting that your idea is not valid is any manner. That is how such issues work. If you make a broad but unsupported assertion then others demonstrate that such is not the case while you make not attempt at countering their data you have tacitly accepted that your claim has been validly refuted and its therefore false.

“I'm done with this discussion, although I'm sure you'll have some more to write just to put me in my place (I dare you to prove me wrong by not commenting).”

That is a typical christian tactic of adding further baseless claims regarding the ‘proven validity of the bible’ then walking away instead of validating them. Also only children make ‘dares’ adults issue challenges and since you were in fact challenged to support your mythological claims but have failed to meet them it is a safe conclusion to assume that you know you cannot.

I challenge you to produce the asserted great wealth of extra biblical documentation of jesus that exceeds that for Caesar and the archaeological evidence validating the bible. But I think we both know that you were making idle boasts and empty claims don’t we?

“But hey, feel free to drop by and view my vile, deceitful art anytime.”

Petty immature sarcasm from someone who made repeated claims of being insulted demonstrate either a general lack of maturity or a willful intent to be insulting or cruel making your earlier protests a sham as well as your claim to be following the teaching of jesus who is alleged to have said’ turn the other cheek.

I also point out that you more than once stated that ‘I did say that exactly’, and in most cases I generally agreed with your contention, so since I never referred to your art in that or any similar manner but stated that your talent was obvious I view this as very childish, snarky and rather juvenile. Although that does seem to lend some credence to my remarks with regard to the ‘christian persecution complex’ that is also codified in scripture.

And of course you are welcome to visit my page regardless of how you perceive my humble efforts at humor and social commentary.

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to uncledon [2018-03-09 23:15:27 +0000 UTC]

As I mentioned before, I am done with this discussion, well at least for now, and here are the reasons why:

I don't have time right now to spend the hours of research required to give you the quality of replies you are asking for. I am going to try to assume that your motives were not antagonistic, and so from here on, unless blatantly provoked, I will answer you objectively. 

If you look back upon everything I've written so far, I have not once claimed that I have approached this objectively, I freely admit that I have injected personal opinion. The difference between us there is that you were claiming to be objective when you were obviously adding personal subjective opinions into what you wrote. I claimed no such objectivity. However, from here on I will attempt to be as objective as I can in my replies. However if I do continue with this discussion/debate/whatever this is, it will not be for some time, because it is a low priority for me. I spent a lot of time years ago seeking facts about a lot of this stuff, and unfortunately I don't have the kind of memory recall that can bring up all that research when needed, so I would have to spend hours researching in order to answer your questions to the standard that you obviously require. I don't have time for that right now, as I am raising kids, work full time, paint part time, study part time, play sport, and maintain my yard, all of which I deem more important than this discussion. 

If and when I do get around to replying to you again, I'll attempt to do so with as much objectivity as possible, and will treat you with respect, despite our differences of opinion. I ask your forgiveness for my personal comments on you. As I've said before, I'm no professor and do not claim to be an expert debater by any standards, but I will do my best. As I also mentioned before, if you're really after a highly intellectual debate you may want to look elsewhere.

Otherwise, eventually when I feel I have the time, I will attempt to answer your claims politely and objectively without making personal comments on your character and your beliefs. Unless provoked, I will from here on write to you as I would a friend.

I look forward to our ongoing respectful discussion.

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uncledon In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2018-03-10 05:24:56 +0000 UTC]

I have never said that neither of us have never presented our opinions merely that you present yours based in a mythology which you subjectively assert is real when you cannot and have not presented anything objective or verifiable to support those claims other than repeating them while adding more on top of them.

If you make such claims then either you must be prepared to substantiate them with more than totally subjective comments such as 'well I believe in them' which is only adding a second layer of subjective assertion on top of the first.

Accepted, both have made mistakes and when continued, if continued a fresh start is accepted wherein you will not again push your beliefs onto me as you have done repeatedly and I will not make statements that you could see as personal affronts. However as a thing, an object nor an idea cannot be insulted and only a person can be unless the person owning or holding them cannot differentiate them from themselves I do not think it appropriate for you to take my view of such as a personal insult as explained in great detail previously.

Might I suggest that when you do 'research' these claims of yours you follow two suggestions.

The first is to maintain 'bookmarks' to be able to retrace that source along with possibly saving that information to files on your computer as a personal library. This is what we do in science because no one can trust our memory as you so rightly stated and having the reference material at hand saves us from looking foolish. This is what I have done with regard to many of the biblical concepts that relate to history and why I have and can say without fear of contradiction that almost none have any basis in objective reality as demonstrated by extra-biblical evidence. In fact most of those biblical ideas are directly contradicted by sound and extensive objective evidence the vast number of 'creationist' websites and 'ministries' unjustifiably asserting more myths to the contrary not withstanding.

Secondly while you might think that material obtained from religious / christian / creationist / fundamentalist or whatever label you care to apply to that source is useful it is in no way valid outside the sphere of faith they rely on. They are not recognized as objective, verified sources by historians, archaeologists or any branch of science because they do not follow scientific methods or protocols, they do not submit their work to open skeptical review outside that closed, self-serving sphere, they do not seek peer reviewed publication and they essentially reject the very foundation of scientific inquiry by starting with the predetermined conclusion that a supernatural being is the answer then try to use established materials to support that idea. That is not how science or rational persons function as they both collect the data and then try to build a reasonable explanation that conforms to it not the other way around.

So such non-scientific materials such as Timothy Mahoney's 'Patterns of Evidence' construct that used extremely subjective religious bias, presented personal reinterpretations [distortions] of existing evidence, that dismissed all work by educated and skilled experts in the relevant fields when he possesses absolutely none at all and constant references to scripture in a meaningless reliance on the fallacy of circular reasoning, using the thing to prove the thing, is little more than a very pretentious sermon masquerading as history and science to pander to followers and are therefore totally invalid. If you wish to demonstrate that something is real you must remain within the confines of what is objective reality and not rely on some subjective, unsubstantiated mythology regardless of how fervently you 'believe' in it otherwise your attempt is doomed from the beginning.

I have said 'you' in the generic sense not implying you personally.

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uncledon In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2018-02-22 12:24:09 +0000 UTC]

“it's almost refreshing to have someone slam my belief”

What sheer nonsense as I have critiqued your flawed and false assertions derived from those beliefs and have not attacked them other than to state my personal opinions at times. However like most within your sect you cannot distinguish between the two and view anything that does not immediately conform to your view as an attack on them playing the foolish ‘persecution’ card at every opportunity when the actual persecution of other stem almost completely for those within you sphere. Shall I list the use of your mythology as an excuse to rip aboriginal children from the families and force them to swallow your mythology in total disregard to their culture, it long and violent fight against integration and civil rights, interracial marriage and on and on and one throughout the entire history of your faith.

Oh but then I am almost certain that you will try to play the ‘they’re not true christians’ ploy as if you determination had any value there at all.

Yes in fact I do view your mythology as irrational, primitive, barbaric, mired in ancient ideas to the point of being unfit for the modern world in most ways and very harmful in most aspects such as protecting the criminal acts of the clergy [child rape and embezzlement], fostering a vicious us-versus-them mindset allowing bigotry and hate to hide under the cloak of religious freedom and many other vile aspects too lengthy to go into now.

When you say “I'm not doing anything wrong by sharing my beliefs, and if you think I am then you're a hypocrite, because you're sharing yours” you are lying to yourself and the world in order to cover over your frauds and make yourself feel as if you are the victim here playing on the inherent ‘persecution complex’ built into your mythology. I have not asserted as a fact that you are subject to my views whether or not you like it or agree with it as you have from the very beginning so your claim of hypocrisy is as flawed as all your others in my opinion.

When you purposefully hide the rampant evil, the rivers of blood and the endless tales of monstrous conduct of this deity you allege exists in order to feed children propaganda intended to warp their minds before they have reached the age of reason for the sole purpose of brainwashing them into the cult you are committing a vile act and it is you who is being hypocritical. To then compound that with by trying to use the common christian tactic of reversal to declare me a ‘hypocrite’ for advocating that all relevant information be provided shows that you are merely a zealous believer who thinks that anything including ‘lying for jesus’ is appropriate.

No you are not doing anything wrong in sharing your beliefs but you are committing a willful act of fraud, deceit and deception by lying to children when you understand the truth of the matter in order and for the sole purpose of misleading them to push their young minds in a direction under false and harmful pretenses.

In your third point you say “Also I love Jesus. Sidenote: there's more written evidence that Jesus existed than there is that Julius Ceasar existed” which indicates clearly that you a so ignorant of reality as to indicate that you are zealous to the point of possible fanaticism. That is an extremely common piece of creationist propaganda, a clear fraud that falls apart with a very simply question, ‘please list at least twenty such documents, their authors and in what academic repository they are maintained for further validation’. You cannot because you are merely chanting a dogged line of nonsense that is not based in fact and therein lies the problem. Christians are famous for making vague, nebulous statements that equate simply to ‘well somebody else said that while they waved the bible in the air so it must be true’.

Allow me to enlighten you a little as there exist only four authors from antiquity who mention this ‘christus’ in any manner and they are as follows.

Josephus Flavius is the only one very to visit Judea, he was born there in 37 CE but spent the second half of his life in Rome after the Flavian war in Judea in 67 CE which destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. In Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities, a passage that states that Jesus the Messiah was a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate, usually called the Testimonium Flavianum. The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus, which was then subject to Christian expansion/alteration generally attributed to Eusebius of Caesarea. Regardless of this the fact remains that Josephus could not have been an eyewitness, likely never spoke to anyone who was and writes merely about what early believers said and they received their information after it passed through untold hands. The term ‘hearsay’ almost pales when applied here.

Then we have Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus (c. 56 CE – c. 120 CE) was a senator and an historian of the Roman Empire. He referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate, who I might add is also not supported by evidence outside the bible other than a partial inscription that might read ‘Pilate’ but cannot be clearly attributed to that period in question, and the existence of early Christians in Rome in one page of his final work, Annals (written ca. 116 CE), book 15, chapter 44. Scholars view it as establishing three separate facts about Rome around 60 CE: (i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time, (ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Roman Judea. However once more he is reporting no established facts but hearsay material.

Next we have Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, born Gaius Caecilius or Gaius Caecilius Cilo (61 CE – c. 113 CE), better known as Pliny the Younger, was a lawyer, author, and magistrate of Ancient Rome who along with his uncle Pliny the Elder witnessed to the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 CE where he died. Pliny served as an imperial magistrate under Trajan (reigned 98–117), and his letters to Trajan provide one of the few surviving records of the relationship between the imperial office and provincial governors. During his tenure as the Roman governor of Bithynia et Pontus (now in modern Turkey) wrote a letter to Emperor Trajan around 112 CE and asked for counsel on dealing with Christians. Yet again he was not a witness to the biblical events but also only reports that christians existed and were troublesome.

Finally we come to Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus, commonly known as Suetonius ( c. 69 CE – after 122 CE), was a Roman historian belonging to the equestrian order who wrote during the early Imperial era of the Roman Empire. His most important surviving work is a set of biographies of twelve successive Roman rulers, from Julius Caesar to Domitian, entitled De Vita Caesarum. Christians are explicitly mentioned in Suetonius' biography of the Emperor Nero (Nero 16) as among those punished during Nero's reign. These punishments are generally dated to around 64 CE, the year of the Great Fire of Rome. In this passage Suetonius describes Christianity as excessive religiosity (superstitio) as do his contemporaries, Tacitus and Pliny.

None of these four state that they ever spoke to any person who claimed to have meet the Christ or even witnessed any biblical event but only reported on what early believers said in that regard which is hearsay evidence at best or more appropriately termed urban myth and what they were doing at the time. It is the ploy of very desperate people who try to stretch these few passages into assertions of ‘direct and confirmed evidence of the messiah’.

Now let me just list just some of the written documentation regarding Julius Caesar while I ignore the thousands of physical artifacts such as coins, statutes, busts, inscriptions and the like about him and the utter dearth of such regarding your character. Most importantly is the very letters, military reports, several books written by him and autobiography of the man himself which still survive as well as the commentaries of Mark Antony who served alongside Caesar through nearly all his campaigns and is documented in Josephus, the writings of Gaius Sallustius Crispus a contemporary and partisan of Julius Caesar and witness to his death, the surviving documents of Marcus Junius Brutus the most famous assassin of Caesar, the documents written by Cicero another contemporary who served as consul prior to Caesar’s ascension to power and all of these people are confirmed through numerous documents and artifacts to have actually existed and their documentation of the life, actions, deeds and words of Julius Caesar survive and confirm each other. Then there is of course De Vita Caesarum by Suetonius, ‘the life of Caesar’ by Plutarch, the ‘Natural History’ by Pliny the Elder, the Historia Augusta or Augustan Histories though the exact authorship is disputed, the Historiae or History by Marcus Velleius Paterculus, ‘Roman History’ by Cassius Dio, ‘The Civil Wars’ by Appian and so on.

Now please state the requested twenty contemporaneous documents supporting ‘christ’ or be shown to be simply trying to pass off creationist propaganda as reality.

I find this pathetic and petty assertion so far outside the realm of reality to be one of the single most repugnant and fallacious of all since it is nothing more than a bald faced lie spoon fed to believers to reinforce their delusions by manufacturing utterly false ideas that cannot be validated in any way. But then your beliefs are not based on reality, rational thought or anything reasonable but blind faith in a construct little more than magic.

When you say “Josh McDowell, a staunch atheist turned Christian” that is in fact not the case at all as according to McDowell, he was an agnostic at college and I suggest that you review his own website to verify this. Sadly “William Lane Craig's reasonable faith website” is little more than a pre-suppositionalist site preaching that the claims he makes are valid when he merely says that they are using the Kalam Cosmological argument which in fact does not reach the conclusion that Craig asserts it does which is that ‘god’ exists and most clearly does not even approach the christian deity at all. Lee Strobel's book is so riddled with fallacies, flaws and clear bias as to be almost irrational and begins with a conclusion, god is real, then tries to manufacture a case which appeals to christians once again to bolster their beliefs but does not stand up to critical analysis. C. S. Lewis did exactly the same thing dressing his ideological position up as charming fiction to sell the same idea in the same manner which you are doing which is hiding the truth to paint a flowery scene over the carnage of reality.

The point is that I am in fact dealing with you since you could not resist your psychological need to force feed all those you come in contact with your mythological beliefs asserting that I am subject to them without regard to my own ideas. Before you try and make some weak argument that ‘I didn’t do that’ let me remind you that you did when you posted this in response to my simple point of informing you that I had used one of your works. You replied for no other reason than you needed to assert that the world must bow to your ideology “although I think you're missing the most important thing, which is that Jesus loved us all so much that he died for our sake, and preached forgiveness, grace and redemption”. Something you have yet to demonstrate is in fact real or even make an attempt merely whimpering that ‘you’re attacking my beliefs” when that is not the case at all.

“Your writing gives me the impression you're angry”

Please not that asinine and rather idiotic pearl of creationist nonsense! Are you that desperate to try and assert that anyone daring to question let alone reject your mythological ideology must therefore ‘be angry at god’ when you cannot demonstrate that said creature even exists?

Other than pointing out the glaring fraud you are in fact part of and the massive flaws in your arguments precisely how have I actually expressed anger or hostility? Have I barked abuse at you, insulted you, made profane or demeaning remarks? No I have not and you are just, pardon me, whining because you have no real answers and have in fact attempted to ‘pass the buck’ to others rather than deal with your fallacious assertions.

“But I don't go around slamming people simply for having a different belief system to me”

And now the christian ‘persecution complex’ card is played trying to deflect the criticism when in fact you have done something quite similar by asserting that I am subject to your mythology whether I like it or not so please stop pretending that you are the innocent victim here and deal with reality instead. I have not attacked you for having these beliefs but rather have commented on the deceitful tactics you are using by your own admission, the fact that your remarks trying to prop up those beliefs are little more than frauds that do not stand up to critical analysis or skeptical review and that your assertions relating to your beliefs regarding myself are totally improper regardless of what you believe since you have no right whatsoever to tell me that I am subject to them when you cannot support them other than with false claims.

“If you're hammering at me here on my page simply because I'm sharing what I honestly believe, you need to chill out.”

Then you need to stop telling people like me that your mythological delusions are real when you only believe in them as you have done, you need to stop feeding false propaganda to children in order to brainwash them into becoming drones from your cult and you need to stop presenting falsehoods such as your flagrant claim regarding the myth of Gideon. I am not ‘hammering’ you but making clear, well-reasoned arguments regarding your false claims and deceptive conduct that you cannot validate and have admitted to.

Do not sit there in a state of self-righteous indignation and complain that you are being ‘persecuted’ because of your faith when that is not the case at all and you likely understand this. Your claims and assertions are being shown to be utter nonsense with verifiable facts that you cannot match in any manner so you ‘need to chill’.

“I believe in being honest, but I also believe that children's minds are not yet ready to cope with/fully comprehend certain realities of this world such as sexual abuse, horrific murder etc.”

Then you should not be feeding them only the part of the fable that gives them a false impression in order to indoctrinate them in a deceptive manner so that later regardless of what they learn they will in all likelihood reject it and cling to the ideology which you likely understand full well. You should wait until they have reached the age of reason and provide them with the full scope of the story then let them determine for themselves what it is but this you know you cannot do because they would walk away in disgust so you know you are playing a game of deception. You have just admitted to engaged in deceitful tactics known as brainwashing in order to lull impressionable children into a flawed scenario and I dismiss your pretentious implication that they will be given the ‘full story’ at a later date as the vast majority of your sect are stunned to learn of these things because the deception continues throughout their life.

“My art is not an attempt to deceive them or hide the truth, I'm simply withholding information that is best processed by a mature and grownup mind that will understand it better.”

What a very convenient self-deception you have manufactured to hide from your own frauds. Have you considered a career in politics as this type of ‘spin-control’ would be very useful there? Are you so immersed in this ideology that you cannot understand that by saying that you are ‘withholding information’ you are in fact ‘hiding the truth’ from them? This is a clear example of the cognitive dissonance inherent in your ideological mindset.

Here’s an experiment if you have the courage to undertake it. Write that sentence on a piece of paper and hand it to a few people you know in and outside the faith then ask them if this sounds ‘honest’ or ‘dishonest’. Say nothing else and let them decide for themselves which is what you have tried to imply. Do this for say 20 people equally split and then tell me the results.

“I won't go into it, because it's time for dinner, but Gideon was waaay before 480 BC, dude.”

No you won’t ‘go into it’ for the very simple reason that you cannot substantiate this repeated assertion any more than you can your laughable claim of there being more evidence for Christ than Caesar. Merely repeating an empty assertion does not make it real, that requires evidence and I think we both know that there is none to support this myth. Both are nothing more than creationist fictions manufactured to create the illusion that they are real. Had you anything that even resembled valid information regarding the ‘Gideon myth’ you would have used the same time it took to type this petty nonsense to cite a single reference.

But then you don’t have one do you?

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to Wolffan99 [2017-12-04 05:41:19 +0000 UTC]

I think the story could have been a bit stronger and the script a bit funnier, but all in all I think we did a good job! Ranjan stole the show

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to rhunel [2017-08-28 04:38:39 +0000 UTC]

Yeah that would be cool, I'll put it on my bucket list

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rhunel In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2017-08-29 01:39:52 +0000 UTC]

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to Lana-Lee [2017-03-27 11:48:59 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the compliment

As long as it's not for profit I don't mind, but some of the illustrations I've done belong to the organisation I did them for (for example, the Big Bible Challenge illustrations belong to Scripture Union), so it's not my call as to whether you can use them or not, sorry.
When you do use my pictures, if you could give credit and link to my page that would be nice.
Thanks!

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Lana-Lee In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2017-03-29 18:40:23 +0000 UTC]

All of your work will be used for nonprofit only :3
I'll credit both you and Scripture Union when I do use them~ Thank you very much for the permission!
I'll be sure to include links to your page as well! ^^

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to Lana-Lee [2017-04-04 09:25:45 +0000 UTC]

Thanks  

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to DrRiptide [2017-03-08 11:39:13 +0000 UTC]

Hey, thanks so much for your encouraging comments. I try to seek my sense of worth from God alone, but I'll be honest, it feels good when someone says they're picking up what I'm putting down.

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DrRiptide In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2017-03-11 10:25:19 +0000 UTC]

Awwwww bro, it's an honour to receive what you're putting down <3 <3

Thank you again for all the time you spend making and uploading this stuff. 

Did you happen to work on that amazing animated Dreamwork's movie, 'Prince of Egypt' from 1998?

(and thanks for taking time to reply. I imagine you're super busy, so I really appreciate it )

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to DrRiptide [2017-03-16 00:36:06 +0000 UTC]

No worries. Yes I am super busy, haha, but I also like to procrastinate

No I didn't work on Prince Of Egypt, but I wish I had, it was awesome. I was just  teenager when that came out.

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DrRiptide In reply to PrisonerOnEarth [2017-03-16 20:20:55 +0000 UTC]

hahaha fair enough.

I dunno if this'd be something you'd enjoy, but I've saved these to the computer and bust them out whenever I need to cheer up, haha.

www.collegehumor.com/post/7030…

Awman, agreed. Such a good movie.

Hey so, I don't know if short animations are something would ever consider working on, but if you wanted to colab a lil animation together sometime?, Maybe with you on characters and me on backgrounds and animating in AfterEffects, we should totally make something

Freelance work is pillaging all my time right now, but if that notion makes your eye brow go up, we should be friends haha what be your thoughts?

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PrisonerOnEarth In reply to DrRiptide [2017-03-20 11:08:40 +0000 UTC]

Thanks, man.
Collabo's are definitely fun, and of course animation is fun, but to be honest I've already made so many promises to collaborate that I STILL haven't had the time to make good on yet, that I'd just be stupid to make another one.
Not saying it won't happen, it just might be way down the track.
Thanks heaps for asking though, I love your work, so if we ever do get round to a collaboration it'd be exciting.

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