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wtfisthatdude
[383301]
[2003-04-06 03:32:07 +0000 UTC]
(Unknown)
# Statistics
Favourites: 15; Deviations: 0; Watchers: 24
Watching: 81; Pageviews: 6104; Comments Made: 892; Friends: 81
# Interests
Favorite movies: Lord of the Rings and Star WarsFavorite bands / musical artists: RHCP, John Frusciante, John Williams, Howard Shore
Tools of the Trade: My thinking cap!
Other Interests: Christianity, Philosophy, Writing/Reading, Backpacking, Music > In that order
# About me
Current Residence: Marquette, MIPersonal Quote: My screenname is really wt-fist-hat-dude
# Comments
Comments: 150
hey man u never responded to my long rant is it cause i won
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wrap ur mind around this,, p.s. its reallly long but read it all!
Some people falsely believe that it is impossible to prove the unexistence of anything, but they are wrong. It can, for example, be proved that there is no even prime number greater than two. Other people use to say that there is no way to prove if there is a god or not, or even that we cannot get any knowledge of god (agnosticism). My opinion as a strong atheist, is that we can in fact prove that god does not exist in the physical world. This document is my attempt to do so.
Definition of the word "god"
To prove the non-existence of god we first need to define the word "god". When christians talk about god they mean an almighty being. This, I think, is the only god that holds, since it is the only god that can be logically justified.
I think it makes most sense if god is female, because only women can give life. Something that even people in the Stone Age understood. Later when wars affected the cultural evolution, and men took control of society, god became male, but the female god still lives on in the expression "Mother earth". It should also be pointed out that an omnipotent god must be either androgyne or sexless. However, in most religions god is male so I will refer to god as 'he', 'him' etc.
Some people (Einstein for instance) believe in a god who is not a personal god, but a Spinozan kind of god. I claim that this god is not a god! To say that god is universe - by getting knowledge of the universe we get knowledge of god - is to redefine the meaning of the word god. This has nothing to do with the word god as it was defined by the "primitive" cultures which preceded our present civilization. He can be excluded with Occam's razor, and most important: Such a god does not hear prayers.
If god is not omnipotent there is nothing that prevents him from being a product of the universe. If that is the case, what makes god divine? Then god would only be an alien, a being of matter; probably containing flesh, blood and DNA like all life we know of. Everything god is able to do would be things that human beings also will be able to do, all his knowledge would be knowledge we will also achieve. In fact humans would be gods, which should lead to some strange kind of humanism!
Many people justify their faith with god as an explanation. What is the meaning of life? Where does time and space come from? Who created the physical constants? et cetera. Because we lack knowledge of these things - and maybe never will, since they are questions like "what is the color of a second?" or "how does sound taste?" - god is there as an explanation.
Let's say that god is the meaning of life, what then is the meaning of god? If god has a nature, who created that nature? If god created time and space, how can god exist without it? Since creation is an event in time, how could god create time? and who created god? To answer these questions god must be almighty, or else you can't explain them. In fact you can if you say god stands above time and space and so on (which he indeed does if he is almighty), but to be able to prevent god from being tied to future phenomena, you must give him the quality of omnipotence so he can stand above everything.
The qualities of an omnipotent god
If god is almighty there are several qualities he must have. They are as follows:
He must know everything. Everything that is, everything that has been and everything that will be. To be able to know everything that will be he must know every position and every momentum of every particle in cosmos (Laplace's "World Spirit").
He must be worth our worship. A being that is not worth worshipping is no god.
He must be able to do anything. If there are things that god can't do, he certainly is not omnipotent.
He must be above time. Something that even St. Augustine deduced. But not only that, god must stand above all possible dimensions.
He cannot be 'good' or 'evil' or, indeed, have any subjective characteristica. If god is all good, he cannot do evil things and cannot be almighty. Most people would object and say that good can do evil but chooses not to do it. Well, if god is all good he can't choose to do evil things, can he?
The theodicΓ© problem
We also have the theodice problem, stated by David Hume:
If the evil in the world is intended by god he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can't be both almighty and good. There are many objections to this, but none that holds since god is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Besides, if only god can create he must have created evil. If somebody else (the devil) created evil, how can one know that god, and not Satan created the universe?
The ontological evidence against gods
Neccesary in a god is a being that is worth worshipping, so if there is no being worth worshipping there cannot be a god.
Not any of the existing religions can provide such a god. How do we know if there are no undiscovered beings worthy our submission? Well if there is a being that has either failed or not tried to communicate with us that being is not worth worshipping either, so the ontological evidence against god holds, even without complete knowledge of the world.
There is a test, based on the ontological evidence against god, that you can do to try the existence of god. Pray, and ask god to provide you with a clear proof for his existence within a week. After that week, if you have got a proof that god exists, send me the evidence. If not, there are only three reasons I can think of that are plausible: (1) God does not exist, (2) God does not want to or (3) God can't give you this evidence. Because of the ontological evidence, alternative (2) and (3) are not worth your worship and thus they equal alternative (1). So if you get no response there is no god.
The meaning of the word existence
What do we mean by existence? The very definition for existence is that a thing is said to exist if it relates in some way to some other thing. That is, things exist in relation to each other. For us, that means that something is part of our system ('The known world'). God is defined to be infinite, in which case it is not possible for there to be anything other than god because "infinite" is all-inclusive. But if there is nothing other than god then either god cannot be said to exist for the reason just explained, or god is the known world, in which case, by definition, god is not a god.
Occam's razor
Occam's razor was formulated by William of Occam (1285-1349) and says: "Non est ponenda pluralites sive necessitate" or in english: "Do not multiply entities unless necessarily". It is a principle for scientific labour which means that one should use a simple explanation with a few explanatory premises before a more complex one.
Let's say that everything must be created, and that was done by an omnipotent god. A god which stands above time, space, moral and existence, which is self containing and in it self has it's own cause. This entity can surely be replaced by the known world. The world stands above time, space, moral, existence, is self containing and in it has it's own meaning. Most theists agree that god has a nature. Then we must raise the question, who created god's nature? If we just accept that god has a nature and exists without a cause, why not say that the known world just is and that the laws of physics are what they are, without a cause?
God is not really an explanation, only a non-explanation. It is impossible to gain information from non-information so God as an explanation is a dead end. When we have said that the reason for something is that 'god did it that way' there is no way to understand it any further. We just shrug our shoulders and accept things as they are. To explain the unknown by god is only to explain how it happened, not why. If we are to investigate the world and build our views of life from the world, we cannot assume a god. Because adding god as an explanation leaves as many, if not more questions than it explains, god has to be removed with Occam's razor if we are serious in investigating the world.
Some things are impossible to do:
There are things that are impossible to do. For example nobody can cover a two-dimensional surface with two-dimensional circles, without making them overlap. It is impossible to add the numbers two and two and get 666. You can not go back in time (without passing an infinite entropy barrier). The number of things that are impossible to do are almost infinite. If god were to be almighty he would be able to do them, but it's impossible to do so.
Some people say that he can only do things that are logically possible to do, but what is? Is it logically possible to walk on water? Is it logically possible to rise from the dead? Is it logically possible to stand above time, space and all other dimensions - and still exist? I'd say that everything which violates the laws of physics are logically impossible and thus omnipotence is logically impossible. Besides if omnipotence is a relative quality there is no way to tell omnipotence from non-omnipotence. For omnipotence to be a valid expression it must be absolute, but we have no objective criteria to measure omnipotence so the word itself is useless.
Omnipotence is impossible due to paradoxes
Another way to disprove the almighty god is that omnipotence leads to paradoxes. Can god make a rock that is too heavy for him to carry? Can god build a wall that even he can't tear down?
Also, if god knows everything, he knows what he will do in the "future" (in any dimension, not necessary the time dimension). He must have known that from the very start of his own existence. Thus god's actions are predestined. God is tied by faith, he has no free will. If god has no free will god is not omnipotent. Another way to put it is that to be able to make plans and decisions one must act over time. If god stands above time he can not do that and has no free will. Indeed, if god stands above all dimensions god is dimensionless - a singularity, nothing, void!
Besides there can exist no free wills at all if god is almighty. If you had a free will, god wouldn't know what you would do tomorrow and wouldn't be omnipotent.
The void creator
If everything must have been created, then god must have been created as well. If god is not created, then everything mustn't have a creator, so why should life or cosmos have one?
Besides this argument has another leap. If everything has a source and god is that source, then god must have existed without it before he created it. So if god created time and space, he must live outside of time and space. Thus he is non-existent. If all life must come from something and that is god, god is not alive and hence non-existent. If moral must come from god, god lacks moral. If logic comes from god, god is illogic. If nature comes from god, god is unnatural. If existence comes from god, god is non-existent. If god is the cause of everything, god is void
We would never notice god
This is not an evidence against god, but rather describes the lack of sense in praying to a god who stands above time.
If god stands above time and created time and space he can not be the first link in a time dependent chain of events. Rather he would affect every step in all chains, and we would only see god in the laws of physics (Davies, 1983, chapter 4). This god is an unnecessary entity to describe the world and should be removed with Occam's razor
If somebody would pray to god and god would listen, the laws would change to achieve the desired result. Thus the world would be different and the prayer would never have been said. Besides god would already (in an "above time" sense of view) know that you would pray, and already have changed the world. Prayers would be totally meaningless. We would already live in the best world possible, and any prayer would be to doubt the wisdom of god.
Even worse: For every prayer said, god has not acted, or else the prayer had been undone. This means that the more people have prayed, the more bad things in the world have persisted. Therefore, the more you pray, the more evil persist (provided god exists and stands above time).
A much better way to change the world is to do it yourself. Then you would know that it was you who made the world better. The effect of prayers are not scientific provable, whilst the effect of actions are. Instead of praying you should set to work at improving your situation. This is what humanism is about.
Nobody really believes in god
Schopenhauer once said something like:
"Man can do anything he wants, but he can not want whatever he wants."
My thesis is that people who claim to believe in god do not really do so. They just wish to believe in god. They somehow feel that their lives are meaningless without god, so they choose to close their eyes to evidence against the existence of god. The christian view is well expressed by Cardinal Ratzinger:
"Religious liberty can not justify freedom for divergence. This freedom does not aim at any freedom relative truth, but concerns the free descicion for a person to, according to his moral inclinations accept the truth." (The times, June 27 1990, p9)
It's as clear as it can be! For a christian you accept the "truth" according to your moral, and then have to be strong in your faith to keep your believes. You decide a priori what to believe and then try to convince yourself and others that it is true. But theists don't really believe, because to believe something is to take it for true, and just like in Nazareth's song Sold my soul there is no sign of god in the world. When you have the evidence for and against something your sub-conscious works on it and makes a conclusion. The process can't be affected by your will, only delayed or suppressed, which will lead to psychoses, and those are far more common among (catholic) priests than any other group..
I have personal experience of this believing what you want to believe. When I was a child I believed in a lot of crazy things. I thought my stuffed animals were intelligent. I believed in Santa Claus. I thought there were monsters under my bed at night. I even believed in god after I heard some of the tales from the old testament. Then I became older and realized that these things weren't true. When I look back I don't understand how I could believe in them, it must have been that I wanted to do so. (Except for the monsters, which had to do with fear of the dark)
When many religious people are confronted with criticism of their religion they convert to atheism or agnosticism. Examples of people who became critical to the dogmas of christianity are Charles Darwin (Darwin, 1958), Dan Barker (Barker, 19??), Ernest Renan plus many former "Catholic modernists" in the 19th century such as Alfred Loisy and Antonio Fogazzaro (Baigenth, Leigh, 1991). The Catholic modernism evolved in the late 19th century and was banned in 1907 by the Vatican (Baigenth, Leigh, 1991). These people are to me clear evidence that an enlightened person will after considering the facts, reject christianity and other religions that contain deities.
Note: This is not the "Plead to authority" fallacy. I'm talking people here, who were trying to prove the existence of god and turned atheists. They did not want to do this, but had to after reading a lot of books and doing a lot of thinking on the subject.
Epilogue
I have tried to define the only god that can be philosophically justified and show some examples why this god cannot exist. After reading this document you may object and say that god is beyond human understanding and can't be defined in scientific terms. This is the view of agnosticism.
If god is so mysterious, how can we know anything about him? Through the Bible? How do we know that the Bible and not the Koran or the Vedha books, for example, are the words of god? (or the bible if you believe in any of the other two books). Considering the cruelties that have been made in the name of god, how do we know that not all religions are made by Satan?
If there is no way to know this but to trust people who claim they have had "divine experiences" there is no way to tell true from false prophets. One has to give up his free mind and follow the authority of a dictator. Remember also that it is the person making a positive claim who has to prove it.
"I wish to propose for the reader's favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true." -- Bertrand Russell
"We shall not believe anything unless there is reasonable cause to believe that it is true" -- Ingemar Hedenius
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"...that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true." -- Bertrand Russell
no ground what so eva huh?? 
just like the fact that erm...atheist exist because there is a god :d if there wasnt a god atheist wont exsist.
i hope you understand my view.
about the pray thing.... when i child is hurt dont they run to their parents for comfort and help??? whats the difference in running to god for help??
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u kno u got a point some ppl.s lives r so pathetic that they have to put it into the hands of a higher power, we call thoose ppl. crack heads and such my target audience wasnt crack heads it is stupid ppl. who only belive what was told, and u kno there being no grounds for it to exsit means its fiction and fiction does exist and ppl. buy it and sell it and worship it....... p.s. took u long enough to reply
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dude come on you must know that this world and this universe isnt just sum freak of nature . its not an accident that you are here or by chance the world is as it is to dya.
sum famous dude said that the chance of the world being as it is today by chance is the same as taking apart a jet place to its smallist componets then throwing them into the air and sumhow for it to fix itself together into the same jet as b4.
debating
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yes i do this world started out great but evil ppl. effected the world and changed it forever
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this world tarted out great....and evil people effected the world and changed it forever.....
ok the bible says that god was pleased with the world....but satan tempted eve and then adam sinned and evil entered the world and from then on the world been reppty evil..
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well thats an amazing fairy tal i guess that explains it all unicorns carried them all away right, *sarcasm* no ppl. r evil were capible of evil things and when we deplete natural recorses wage wars (in the name of ur savior) and create bigger bombs the world turns bad duh!!!!!!
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if what you saw are try then human race shud have destoryed itself by now with all these wars..
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yea and we pretty much have we have come a long way from backin the day but the thing that keeps us goin is the occasional genius or hero who stands up outta his own strenght not strenght from a false god, they keep society goin and ppl. alive
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lol i like the way you say "not strenght from a false god" XD
lol why wud any of these men bother?? lol its a hopeless case and most of em loose alot to gain soo little.
only a few men can do such a thing that isnt selfish. the chances of these are real slim as all are greedy and power seekin and at the very least prideful.
no normal man with no fiath can do that
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really! i think you should look at this:
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
"I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
-Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."
-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
isnt that currently how the world is ran???
we christians live by grace 
il quote since you keep dpoin that alot....
Belief in God?
Is belief in the existence of God irrational? These days, many famous scientists are also strong proponents of atheism. However, in the past, and even today, many scientists believe that God exists and is responsible for what we see in nature. This is a small sampling of scientists who contributed to the development of modern science while believing in God.
Rich Deem
HERE A GOOD ONE:
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. --->>>I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."<<----
A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
WOW I LIKE SCIENCE SOO MUCH WHEN I READ THAT
dude we been talkin about this for quite some time....i see no progress is this arument for either of us. i wont agree with what you say. i agree with what GOD says and what the bible says.
i am ending this aruement now as there real is no gain or progress to be made of this. however if you do see a purpose speak it out. if not well its been interesting talkin to you.
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well enstein put it quite well i belive he pretty much nailed it, he got the main idea and such of christianity he should have also said how christians persecute/persecuted ppl. for centurys beacause of there belifs or even there ethnicity, the chaolic church and there platform of no involvment during world war two, the list goes on about what god suposedly says and how they want us sheep to carry it out. u kno someone famous once said that u can never really change the mind of a true beliver, that could be taken as an atheist comment or a comment christians knew threw out time and thats upsetting because suposdely there god is the only god and every one else is wrong, but if ppl. wont listen u get frustrated u may even call them barbarians and pegans and hunt them to th end of the earth.
oh yea i dont need your opinion because i have fact, FACT FACT FACT FACT not opinion and fact is better than opinion there is no argument cause u cant argue against someone w/ fact when all u got is opinion and a book writen thousands of years ago
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.......it is wrong for christians to perseucute people i agree there but what you consider as persecution maybe wrong.
no christian is completely perfect i state that now. but we live our life trying hard by faith to live a godly life.
persacution ( no sure how you spell it..) wel...sumtimes the acts of a christian is considered as persacution by people. the christian most likely is tryin to help that person an tryin to help them to stop doin what eva is wrong...but people miss read their action to help[ than person as insulting and persacuting them.
you hav giving me what you in your OPINION is YOUR FACTS that supposely over rules anythin i say.... give me your own opinion and your own words for once instead of hiding behind your famous people words.
it is true that i use the bible and gods words for my arguements because the bible is my guilde book to life.
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ok well u gotta a couple good points, u wanna hear my opinion ok religion drives ppl. apart and promotes hatred, the bible is nothing holy or great it is just a book a book to read the storys and modle ur life after them not get on ur knees and worship it, u ask why i "hide" behind famous ppl. well simply put thoose famous ppl. r smarter than me they are my and many other ppl.s preists theese are the ppl. who are 5000000 times smarter than me so yea when they can take this horribly complicated thing and explain it pretty simply i think its kool. u see there are two arguments to this there my simple version of what happend and then theres the scientists vetrsion which is a bunch of f=r+4 (i+9=ty). u kno. but you ask for my opinion well simply put my opinion doesnt really matter compared to what theese guys have writen down. i kno that and i accept it that my opion is probally wrong compared to theese guys, so thats why i dont say opion i say what they say cause they kno whats right
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a purpose drives a person. most people however walk this earth with no purpose and just wander about.
i dont worship the bible i worship GOD. you must learn to think by yourself and make you own decisions and mind up. listenin and agreeing to what "these famous scientist " hav said is nothing more than a dog following his master. but even a dog hav a choice.
you hav a choice ; those people can infuluence your decisions and your actions but in the end it is "your choice!"
it is true that there are a lot of hatred in the world because of religion...but christianity isnt a religion it is the truth. you prob say im persucuting all other religion and insulting them....but there is only one God.
all these scientist you mention....you say they "are 5000000 times smarter than me" .....the measure of knowledge isnt limited to these men. the wises men aint the famous people or people who know alot.... its the people who knows what is right and do what is right.
besides i want to know what you think! not what some one else who is dead is thinking because at the end of the day im talking to you not the dead ( who are the scientist that are soo clever..... these are still "men")
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oh yea and whos to say ur right and ur the only god what if ur wrong and im wrong and budah is god then what r u gunna do, ive already said there is no god, but u ur so arogent u say ur gods the only god thats kinda worse
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lol nope it aint
budah and all other idol religion..... it is up to them to do what they worship but it is out of my love to other people to help[ them know my God.
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to quote ur religious ppl. "an eternity is a long time to be wrong" all ur reilgion is bull w/ u ur not religiouse u dont even belive in god u hope and pray and beg hes real and never look at the facts no matter how overwhelming they are, ull just respond to this w/ the same ol blah blah religion god is real i think so, so nothing else matters lalala
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..... stop swearin plz...it helps no one..it isnt cool ...
theres overwhelming evidence that there is God! i know there is a God. my hope and pray are to him. He is real. one day jesus will return to the Earth and all will see his glory. the reason i am here talkin to you is to try and help you so that on the day of jesus return we be in God's kingdom celebrating
life is too short to waste away wondering in the darkness .
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ok sry bout the swearin i dont mean it to be kool its just a habbit. ok lets here ur evidence im all ears. how bout this if there is a god or jesus let him strike me dead were i sit...... look at that im alive.
im tryin to help u so that you can think independently and have a good life w/o being exploited by religion.
life is to short to waste beliving in false idols and empty promises of salvation.
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1st thank yuo for not swearin
2nd.... "life is to short to waste beliving in false idols and empty promises of salvation"
i agree completely on that
and im tryin to help you! because life is shot and if you dont choose the right path to live then your entrnal life may be ful of suffering...and i dont want that.
as for you sayin if there is a God let him strike you down now...he wudnt do that to you or any1...also it says in the bible not to test the lord your god.
God wont strike you down because you say so he wont do something so pointless..... just like those other stupid questions like if God can do anythin can he create a rock soo heavy that even he cant lift...i means thats just being stupid to the extrem in askin a question like that.
evidence of God. just look at the world look at nature look at the natural brilliance of this world
and to tell you the truth when i worship when i serve my God i feel more alive than i was when i didnt believe in him. i believed for 3 years now and in 3 years i hav changed alot. for the better^^
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well isnt that just convineate the he wont show himself send proof or strike any sinners down. and u kno there explinations behind everything in nature everything that u think is so amazing and god had to create is just the work of billions of years of evolution, the human body is extremely complicated but it isnt that much diffrent from nature there are weirder things in the world (for example the african mudfish can shut its body down and survive on land for years, wow that animal could be used as proof for evolution. and that just kinda makes whatever u say irelevant
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yes i have a choice and i had a choice to join god i thought that choice threw and studyed my would-be savor and i found a piamid of lies and desiete, u worship god and his word the only proof or knowledge of him is in that book so yea u do kinda worship that book, thoose scientist are crucial to my argument because im tryin to get u to change ur mind on a very drilled into ur head subject, so i gave u the wisest words from the more clever men, my philosphy is that im going to listen to what thoose men say apply it into my own life and spread the word the world to enlighten the ppl. what theese men are doing are very simmilar to the acts of the great enlightenment backin like the 1900's. i dont agree w/ god or the bible because he forces u to listen to him and only him make only the decisions he would want u to, do only the things that he says for u to do, and if u dont then ur not a true christian and he hates u and wants u to burn in hell. my philosphy is that ppl. are capible of makin there own decisions they dont need a giant bully in the sky givin them rules and sayin i love u but if u break theese rules ull burn and scream and be tortured till the end of time. wow thats a real loving god makes me wanna worship him, the only reason i did when i was younger was because i was scared he keept me afraid to do anything ever. this is my little quote "u kno i would rather go to hell u kno why because at least in heel u get some good music... i mean id rathwer burn for a thousand years while listenin to ac dc then sittin in heavan watchin drunk driving videos." and i dont worship jesus because hes killed more ppl. than any other man in the history of the earth, even hitler.
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god doesnt force of BULLY ANY1!!!! he is the god of love!! without him no one can know the true menaing of love! he loves the word so much he gave up his only son so that the world may hav hope!!! john 3:16!!!!
as i said every1 has a choice in the end it is your choice to either listen or ignore gods words!!
God is so gr8 and mercy that we men cant begining to be able to repay him or understand! we all derserve to go and rot in HELL but because of his gr8 love, his gr8 mercy to us we hav hope to live!!
to se go as a fearing being to either obey or be destoryed. dont you understand?? your parents they displine you when you are young so that you do what is right and not to do crimes.
your parents mie smack you or ground you to displine you for your own benifit out of their love ot protect and to hav you grow up into a decient man.
God is our father he displine us! we may face hardship and troubles but these hardships and burdens is so small compared to HELL if we dont get displine.
e.g catterpillers stay in a catcoon and needs time to break out of it. it needs to struggle and keep tryin to break free from the cacoon so that it can become a pretty butterfile. now WE as men cud help the butterfly break from from its cacoon so it dont ned to struggle to get free....but if we did that it wud day shortly after because it needs that struggle and trouble to get strong and survie!
My god is fair and Just. he is a just God every he does is for US. to save us and to bring us to him. he is a father tryin to save his childrens. a shepard guilding his sheeps.
God loves the world soo much he wud do anythin for us to listen to him soo that we wont die. he asked us and and warnned us millions of times not to do things that will DESTORY ourselves but man wud not listen. so he in his love to is rather make us fear him so that we wont destory ourselves in sin than to see us continuing killin ourselves.
dont compare jesus to Hitler. jesus is hope salvation and my saviour!
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oh yea and do u haer ur self ur piss scared of ur god, u kno anything is beliveable if ur scared and u kno it. ull listen to anything if u got a gun or something of that sort pointed at ya, i would belive in go if when i was little preists told me that if i didnt praise god i would be in horrible pain for all eternity. cause that scares ya it makes u think what if he is real and thats what keeps u in ur seat at church. u say u love him u bow to him cause ur scared ur like the pesants in egypt bowing to the pharoh and sayin u love him
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i love god
when a child at night screams after havin a night mare its parents comes to the little child and hug him by givin the child love! love drives out all fear.
if you were to point a gun at me...and tell me to re nouce my God? i will not do it...i rather die than compromise and budge. because it is written.
"those who disown me i to will disown them b4 my faither."
a true christian will remain faithful till the end.
fear is everywhere in this world we know. fear is used to gain power. but love is far stronger than fear....
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no ur worng sadly love defeats hate not fear love and fear together can be a deadly force u weakin them up w/ love get them to trust u and then make them afraid and while ur makin them afraid keep tellin them u love em so they dont get suspicious. and how did he save u? were u a crack head? if not then u had the power to save urself we all can save ourselves and its is incredibly easy to do so w/o the help of a god.
i gota story for ya. a preist and an atheistt get married the preist does this cause he hopes to convert someone, when the marriage ends and they split the atheist walks away fine while the priest starts to doubt his own religion.
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"if not then u had the power to save urself we all can save ourselves and its is incredibly easy to do so w/o the help of a god. "
people think they can do anythin by themselves that they hav the power....again this can only take you soo far.... sooner or l8r you will run of of steam or will. replying on yourself can only take you soo far. your own power...what power do you hav?
how can yo say love defeats hate and say love cant defeat fear. perfect love drives out fear. the opposite of love is fear. most people think courage is opposite to fear but courage means to not be afraid to be brave to certain things..every1 has a fear of sumthin.
as for the atheist and the priest in the bible it is written that a believer should marry another believer. but if they had already married an idol worshiper then his/her ful attention should be on tryin to save and preach to their partner.
all marriages are not perfect, tehre isnt a single couple that has neva had an argument but we know when they are a true couple they can overcome the hardship and trouble together til the end.. thats what marriage is.
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love doesnt defeat hate because the opposite of love is hate the opposite of fear is courage. if ur a courgaeouse person who say hates jews then u can acocoplish horrible things (aka hitler. who was a very extreme christian) love and fear can drive men crazy and having them belive almost anything. there was a test a couple years ago done by some scientists to see if the mind could be easly tricked into beliveing outrageouse things. in one day they were able to convince a student in college that 1+1=4. hmm ppl. can be easly tricked kinda remindes me of someone i kno.
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u actually belive that wow u r so pig headed, they run outta steam yea thats called getting old it happens to all of it, but old age wont even stop some ppl. we have the power to control and live our lives. what power do i have? im a good student and friend a good boyfriend an active political member. i have the power to love hate fear learn evolve and make my life wonderfull w/o god god is like a happy pill whenever something bad happens just say god had somethin to do w/ it and ull get whats comin to ya. (thats a wonderfull thought y wouldnt anyone want to think bout that?) nobody really woldnt wanna, but the older the get and the more u look around u notice there is something horribly wrong w/ this world. lets look at a disease a not so common disease but the oldest in exsistance, its called leperacy, leperacy in the christian world is the most horrible thing that god can do to u its an ultimate punishment for the sinners. but wait art what about the king of jeruselem during the second to last holy world he had leperacy but he was also refered to as the greatest king theyve ever had.
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read comment...forgot to click reply..
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the ultimate punishment for sinners is Hell.
deseases comes from sin. a person would be far healthier if he/she doesnt sin. sin polutes the body and destorys it.
"i have the power to love hate fear learn evolve and make my life wonderfull w/o god"
people do hav the power to choose to love , h8 and fear .... but they cant control it. evolve.....people can make themself a better person...but to evolve i dont see what you mean by that.
you called me pig headed... i rather be called one and accept jesus and trust in God than me a person who relies only on himself and his own power.
all you been sayin is how stupid i am to believe in such a god and how evolution is clearly the answer to everythin and you been arguing and sayin how life is meaningless and everythin is based on how you yourself wants it to be.
then you comment on the bible...you talk about the history of the bible... maybe you should try reading it properly... the greatest king of Jeruselem was king David. he did hav leperacy that was a different king.
leperacy to the jews and to prob alot of people is a nasty skin diseases... these people would largely be unpopular and avoid at all cost. leperacy is no different to any other diseases...
also when ever God strikes down sum1 he always shows mercy. he alwasy warn them not to do that certain sin . he is a merciful God. you said that god should strike you down now so that you may believe and be proven wrong... God wont do sumthin like that ..he already warns the world that if you wont accept jesus and the prophets. then one day these people will go to hell.
how old are you? what is your name? and in the future plz right one message not 4-5 cause its troublesome...i hav alot of school work so i mite reply slow. plz think about what you are sayin. your life is worth so much. choose the rite path in your life plz.
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disease came from animals and exploration the european countries brought their illnesses over to the new world, diseas in the past was caused by lack of sanitation or other factors not sinning. when some one u kno is dieying of cancer u go up to them and ell em what horrible sinners they r. to evolve is to move on past ur old form and gain a new better one and dont even say im wrong cause ill give you a two page example of animals and humans who have evolved and ur pathetic u little whimp u cant even control ur own feelings haha ur such a loser go get god to help u w/ em. its weird how stupid u r but its all good cause i kno whats up and a big precent of the world knos whats up and whats up isnt god cause their was never one their to begin w/. "you called me pig headed... i rather be called one and accept jesus and trust in God than me a person who relies only on himself and his own power." well thats the definition of pig headed and giant pussy im art im 16 and hey i have spoken to so many smart ppl. bout this its insane. my grandfather being a key one he is a very intellegent man he was featured in over 5 science books including "the most influencial men of science" he was in world war 2 and meet the president at the time he worked an assembly line most of his life.
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all these people you mention and how gr8 you boast about yourself...will all see the truth one day.
if you look bak at all our convo you been insulting me through out....sigh
you do not understand....
in the begining tehre was adam...he was probly the smartest man tehre is as he could use 100% of his brain... but as sin entered the world man kept sinning and over the generation men body has been weakened even more because of the continue pass down of sin. now days people only use like 25% of their brain when they are capable of soo much more.
evolution means to improve itself and adapt to its environment and eovle for the better. but humans hav down graded themselves so much. we humans are far to dependant in our technology. we are clever enother to look at an atom but not clever enough to control it.
as for your grand dad im sure he was a clever man. and what do you mean by im "ART" ???:S i dont know either of my grandparaents.
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jeez ok in the begining there was nothin then it colapsed in itselfcreating the big bang fire produced bacteria wich eventually grew into small fish like creature wich eventually evolved into land critters then monkeys then man. i have proof of evolution (haha proof its a funny thing seein as how no matter what u say ive already won) but ive larned over my talks w/ ppl. that u cant change a religiouse persons mind no matter how overwhelming the facts are there just to pig headed. and u cant controll an atom because it is just a microscopic element of energy. u kno the made another break throught about what makes up protons and neutrons (whcich make up atoms) there called strings wich are simple little strands of energy infact they are so small that if u blew up a proton to the size of a universe they would only be as big as a tree. but i guees this is where i end my arguments its clear that u wont see the truth so why bother beliveing in god is a good thing it keeps u ignorante and happy and everyone knos ignorance is bliss.
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yuo say i dont understand and you call me pig headed and also you say how you already won.
one day the truth will be made known to all.
good bye. its been interestin talkin to you.
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ok so ur a lieing scum ball whos goin to rot in hell u deserve to eh? thats the kinda stuff u belive now thats alot more depressing than realizing there is no god. oh yea and if he doesnt bully ppl. then how come when he influences some ppl. it always ends up with bloodshed and thoose that dont agree w/ ur god die. ur so brainwashed u say how god displinces us u didnt stop to think that if ur parents and theese preists didnt beat god into ur head ud probally be seeing things in a diffrent light. kids can be persuated do think anything ppl. can be tricked very easly remember a guy named hitler, or tojo, or sadam hussein, they tricked there ppl. into beliving crazy things. imagine how easy it is to sell god, its such a good thought that there might be one (i.e. hope) anyone would buy it go along w/ it and agree to anything it says. u keep refering to human beings as almost mythical things, that we were carved by a great creators hands, but thats not true we are no diffrent then the animals were just more sypisticated and we have evolved, and the animals were not created by god they were created throught the process of the big bang and evolution, u see science is a kool things cause the stuff they cant explain they are going to be able to in the near future w/ technology improvments. and ill say this again ur god could have not just been around since ever, he could have not just popped outta thin air and created everything (reminds me of a bugs bunny cartoon) ur living in a fairy tale and pissin away ur life listing to there crap
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plz stop swearing.....
lol evolution and science again huh???
as i said b4 every1 has a choice! it is their choice to believe to accept and to act. every1 is responsible for their own actions. there is no one to blame. influences can happen but in the end you made your decision.
"ok so ur a lieing scum ball whos goin to rot in hell u deserve to eh? thats the kinda stuff u belive now thats alot more depressing than realizing there is no god."
every1 on earth has sinned no man is perfect apart from jesus and therefpore wel all deserve to go to hell but because of Gods love and mercy and his grace we can b saved! how is that deppressing?? its the truth its gr8 kindness shown to us by God. it is deppressing to believe that there is no god and that life it self is an accident and meaningless... now that is deppressin.
evolution evolving....all theses point lfe out to be a complete accident and chance...which we hav been through...
i already stated that there isnt any gain in this debate...if you call it that....man wisdom and knowledge is soo small....we were smarter in the pass than the present or the future..
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ok so blah blah god is good whatever, u say theres no advance in this convo. well i beg to differ because im giving u theese questions and facts about how life is formed but all u can say back is i kno theres a god thats that. life did begin minigless and an accident pretty much, but thats not depressing whats depressing is slowly wasting ur life only learning things from one group of ppl. ur actions decisions and outlook is how u make life good or bad. and u dont have to belive in god or whatever to be a good person the potential is inside u not a god its in u. the bible is a big ass bokk and thats it its full of storys on how u should live ur life, its not a book of worship thats where u ppl. get lost
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The bible is Gods words.
you been insulting my God and the bible for quite some time....
you said it yourself....you see life as meaningless and an accident..... now come on if thats true why is tehre just control in our world? why dont every1 go out and do and get what ever they want. if life was meaningless every1 can do anythin , tehre wud be no law....tehre wud be no good or evil. as you said "ur actions decisions and outlook is how u make life good or bad" its up to you and you alone...
now to me that is selfish. and ontop of that every1 wud be living a meaningless life . nothing they do or dont do would matter. that life ends when they die and no one wud remember them and they wud cease to exsist.
now that sounds gr8.........
but me i on the other hand believe:
-there is a reason for everythin
-life is not an accident
-God created this world for his purpose
-everything i do God will know and see
-there are sinners and tehre are righeous people in this world
-there is more to life after death
-God loves us and we will be made perfect in him
-a true christian is blessed and will be maded completed
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selfish? its called living ur life im art and i control my life it isnt im art and my imaginary friend controls me. life began meaningless and it can be if u dont put an effort into it, everyone cant get what they want because there are billions of ppl. there has to be some ppl. who lose. the law thing isnt a measure of good and evil its a measure of right and wrong democracy was created in athens by a famous philosipher, he never said god helped him at all (hmm ppl. can do great things all on there own thats crazy)
that life ends when they die and no one wud remember them and they wud cease to exsist.
now that sounds gr8 well unfortunatly thst the way it is w/ some ppl. thats why u use ur actions to do something great and make ppl. remember u. u deny being afraid of ur god but u really dont see how scared u are god keeps u tame, scared, and ignorante, u have the power to control ur life w/ no help from god and live a better life than most.
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...Everything is in Gods hand. everything is created by him. he has total control. everything is goin the way he planned for his purpose.
man cant do anythin on their own. as for you sayin "life began meaningless" if it began meaningless then it is still meaningless! yo say some people will loose out in life and a few wud find glory. well that aint justice ...or dimocracy mite as well not exist as accordin to you the world isnt fair.
God is always tehre to help you. and guild you but most people reject him and is soo ful of pride that they hav complete control of their own life. you say im scared? you're the one who is scared. you soo scared you try so hard to control your own life and keep it undercontrol. but just 1min of a single event or experiance can complete destory the control and life you work soo hard for. dont rely on yourself...it can only take you so far.
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YEA BECAUSE THE WORLD ISNT FAIR IF U DONT MAKE IT UR A HOBO, UR LIVIN IN A LALA LAND WHERE EVERYONES LIFE HAS A POINT. u need to learn life isnt fair or just or a democracy, i control my life and when its to much to handle i go to other ppl. who share their wisdom i dont go to a church and put all my money and time into a false god. u kno even if god is real (which he isnt) maybe just maybe he doesnt give a fuck bout us. their is torture ppl. rape there moms and eat babies and shit in streets and cut of their johnsons and through it at cops. THIS WORLD IS FUCKED UP REALLY REALLY FUCKED UP AND GOD IS UR FILTER
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"THIS WORLD IS ****** UP REALLY REALLY ****** UP "
wow thats a deppressing view in life isnt it? who would want to be born if they knew the world was like this. well if you see life as then then fine
i will believe what i choose to believe just like you choose to believe the above
(plz try not to swear...its not good)
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yea it is depressing and if ppl. had the chance they probally wouldnt be born. im takein it that u havent seen the world u have only seen tiny white ass towns (ass isnt a swear) ive lived everywere detroit flint orlando houston the u.p. man ive seen the world and it isnt a pretty place theres greed corruption (especially in politics and religion, dont even say otherwise cause u dont kno) murder rape adultery and unspeakable acts that happen every day. the trick is to kno about it and try to do something bout it, but u ppl. r to worried w/ ur crusades and ur propaganda to care whats happening in this world.
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"u dont kno"
you say i dont know ...i say you dont understand ....
im ending this there isnt any point in us arguing.
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yea thank you captin repeat, lol yea i said u dont kno but i also meant u dont understand or comprehend. just keep this in mind just cause u dont understand something doesnt mean it isnt true (and no it doesnt apply to me)
p.s. dont reply im done for good, have a good life
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I hope you are having a wonderful day... I have been studying Christianity a lot more and am starting to really comprehend a lot of things. I just think that maybe your approach needs to be a little more gentle and less on the aggressive side.... but your still a good guy.
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