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A-Little-Ragdoll — Life
#babies #kits #smallstar #codeoftheclans #abortion #antiabortion #prolife #windclan #warriorcats
Published: 2016-11-02 22:14:27 +0000 UTC; Views: 724; Favourites: 6; Downloads: 0
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"Precious kits, walk safely among the stars."I personally saw the "A Loss for All Clans" story in Codes of the Clans to be an anti-abortion story. It talked about how kits are the most important thing in the clan and that everyone should respect their lives and keep them safe.
How did we get to a time were saying "killing babies is wrong" is controversial -_-
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Comments: 21
yeah, but babies/kitten are a LOT different then an unknowing and unfeeling fetus...
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An adult is a lot different then a unable-to-think-intelligently-or-even-speak baby, what is your point?
One could say babies and even cats are "unknowing". Give a baby or cat an IQ test for example and they will fail miserably lol.
I'm not sure what you mean by the "unfeeling" part. "Unfeeling" as in emotions or physical pain?
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i mean a fetus is not a baby
its a collection of cells that will grow into a small human given time
also abortion is the woman's choice. its her body, being shared by a fetus that doesn't even have a conscience yet..
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According to what definition?
Dictionary.com defines "fetus" as "the young of an animal in the womb or egg", meaning it's a baby version of the parent's species (a kitten, a baby, a chick, etc)
Etymonline.com adds "the bearing or hatching of young, a bringing forth, pregnancy, childbearing, offspring"
It's semantics. A fetus is not an alien because all (human) fetuses are developing babies. There has never been a time in history where a woman gave birth to anything other than a human baby.
Murdering a baby is never a choice. Once you are pregnant it is no longer just your body, you have someone else's body growing inside of you. That body has completely separate DNA from it's mother.
A conscience is "an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior." Newborn babies definitely don't have that, so does that mean we can crush their skulls and tear them apart limb from limb too? In fact, a ton of adults don't have a conscience either, can murder them also?
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no i meant its literally not alive yet
its a bunch of cells
and its not a baby, it is STILL IN THE WOMB.. and the law doesn't even let you get an abortion after 24 weeks! When it would be a baby!! and not some cells!!
and it IS the woman's choice, because, and i cannot stress this enough, it is her body. not the fetus (which is not a baby), not yours, who isn't in her position (which could be life threatening, or she just doesn't want a fricking small human to take care of!), but HERS.
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You're technically a bunch of cells.
Again I ask, "not alive" according to what? You have to prove it, I hope you don't expect me to just take your word for it lol.
Inanimate objects cannot feel pain, a baby in the womb can. Rocks for example cannot recognize the sound of it's mother's voice, a baby in the womb can. Babies in the womb can also; yawn, suck his/her thumb, urinate, feel pain, hear, move around, and more.
As Ben Shapiro said:
"A first-trimester fetus has moral value because whether you consider it a potential human life or a full-on human life, it has more value than just a cluster of cells. If left to its natural processes, it will grow into a baby. So the real question is, where do you draw the line? So, you’re going to draw the line at the heartbeat – because it’s very hard to draw the line at the heartbeat? There are people who are adults who are alive because of a pacemaker, they need some sort of outside force generating their heartbeat. Are you going to do it based on brain function? Okay, well, what about people who are in a coma? Should we just kill them?”
"its not a baby, it is STILL IN THE WOMB"
"after 24 weeks! When it would be a baby"
Hopefully now you can see how you contradicted yourself.
"the law doesn't even let you get an abortion after 24 weeks"
Um, yes it does. In New York you can get an abortion on the due date. In fact the governor of Virginia (Ralph Northam) said: "There are — you know when we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of, obviously, the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician by the way. And it’s done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that’s non-viable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.
"which is not a baby"
Again, according to what definition? You're saying the same things over and over without providing anything to back up your claims. If we're going to have a conversation I need you to actually answer me when I ask questions.
"she just doesn't want a fricking small human to take care of!"
Then don't have sex, where pregnancy is possible.
So if someone gets tired of their 5 year old and doesn't want to take care of him anymore then it's ok to crush his skull and tear him apart limb from limb?
"it is her body"
You know that's the same argument slave masters used in the Civil War, correct? "By law this slave is my property and so I get to decide if he/she's a human or not".
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did
did you just compare someone having bodily autonomy to slavery
this isn't worth my time... also, surprise surprise, some women are raped! also, consent to sex is not consenting to pregnancy! yikes
and a 'baby' isn't even considered a fetus until the eighth week, it's an embryo [source: my.clevelandclinic.org/health/…]
You're aware that only NY allows abortion past 24 weeks right [unless it would kill the pregnant women]?
" A bill signed into law in early 2019 adds additional protections for abortion access, such as allowing certain medical professionals who aren't doctors to perform the procedure and allowing abortions past 24 weeks if the fetus isn't viable or to protect the mother's health (before the change in the law, this was limited to protecting the mother's life)."
also, I wasn't contradicting myself; I was specifying that, because the fetuses we were discussing are only allowed to be aborted after 24 weeks, we weren't talking about babies.
And wow, did you just compare taking a pill to get rid of an embryo/fetus to tearing a living breathing child limb to limb? it must be a scary world to conservatives.. Also, you know what would PREVENT a mother who isnt ready for a child from killing said child? AN ABORTION
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No, I compared your argument to one of the arguments that slave owners made (which are strikingly similar)
“surprise surprise, some women are raped”
Rape victims make up less than 5% of women who get abortions. But would you be ok if we said that all abortion is illegal except for the rape victims? If not, then there's no reason to being them up.
“consent to sex is not consenting to pregnancy”
I, for example, am not at any risk of getting pregnant because I'm currently celibate. It is not possible to naturally get pregnant unless one has (hetero) sex. When a man and a woman have sex (even with 'protection') there's always a risk of pregnancy. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
“isn't even considered a fetus..”
I know, and? An embryo is defined as “an unborn or unhatched offspring in the process of development, in particular a human offspring during the period from approximately the second to the eighth week after fertilization (after which it is usually termed a fetus).”
And another word for “human offspring” is a baby/child. Again it's semantics.
“only NY allows abortion past 24 weeks”
NY is currently the only state that allows late term abortions, yes I know. You said that according to 'the law' abortion isn't allowed passed 24 weeks, and all I did was show that isn't true everywhere. There's no reason to think NY will be the only state that'll allow this.
“I wasn't contradicting myself”
You said if the baby is still in the womb then it isn't a baby yet ("its not a baby, it is STILL IN THE WOMB"), but then you said that fetuses 5 months and older are babies ("after 24 weeks! When it would be a baby"). Women are typically pregnant for 9 months, so after 24 weeks does the fetus magically teleport somewhere outside of the womb and only then does he/she turn into a baby?
“we weren't talking about babies.”
You still have yet to prove this statement.
“it must be a scary world to conservatives”
And yet they were the ones who ended slavery. Go figure lol.
“PREVENT a mother who isnt ready for a child from killing said child?”
It's better to murder your child then to murder your child? Ok then..
So what you're saying is; if a woman who wanted an abortion didn't get one, she would end up (still) murdering her child? Yeah, you're not putting women who get an abortion in a good light lol.
Just so you know, I have yet to hear of a woman who regretted not having an abortion. I have never heard a woman say “Well I was going to have an abortion but made the heart-wrenching decision to not go through with it, but I really regret it and I wish it was legal to still kill this little brat.”
“did you just compare taking a pill..”
No, because I'm talking about abortions preformed in abortion clinics that are actual operations (and aren't just “taking a pill”). I applied what happens to the baby during these operations and applied it to a 5 year old.
Here's a video by former abortionist Dr. Anthony Levatino talking about what happens during abortions. Skip to 6:10 to see what I was specifically referencing (but I'm warning you right now that it's pretty graphic and disturbing)
(Abortion Procedures 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Trimesters)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0htVXj…
I'm not sure if you've heard of Abby Johnson, she is an award-winning abortion clinic director (they also recently made a movie about her). During a Kentucky Senate hearing for the 'heartbeat bill' Abby Johnson had some interesting insight:
“That transvaginal ultrasound is done for primarily one reason: to determine how far along a woman is in her pregnancy so that we knew how much to charge her for the abortion..
The fact that many people say, ‘abortion should be a decision made between a woman and her doctor’ is laughable. There is never a time when the abortion doctor goes in, sits down with a woman and goes over risks, alternatives, and benefits to the abortion..
Ultrasound guidance is not used. That is not the standard protocol inside of National Abortion Federation or Planned Parenthood clinics. He’s going to take that probe and he’s going to blindly poke around inside the woman’s uterus until he thinks he has enough blood and tissue in a glass jar. That glass jar is going to go into a lab called the ‘POC lab’.. The Products of Conception is, of course, the baby, but you can’t say ‘baby’ inside of the abortion clinic, so we said P. O. C. or POC, or if the staff was feeling funny we would say that it stood for ‘parts of children'..
Please understand me, I am talking about first trimester abortion. Yes, there are parts. Yes, they must be reassembled. The baby is fully-formed; every internal organ is formed by 12 weeks gestation.. and those bags will go into a freezer in the POC lab that the staff jokingly called ‘the nursery’.”
She also said that;
"Science also tells us that from the moment of conception, unique and individual and unrepeatable DNA is formed. That DNA is human. Our history tells us, time and time again, that it is unjust to take the life of an innocent human being. It was unjust to dehumanize an entire segment of people when we were working to abolish slavery. It was unjust to dehumanize an entire group of Jewish people in the Holocaust. But those two examples that I just gave you only exist because our society was willing to turn a blind eye, look a human person in the face and say, “That is not a human being.” That is not scientific. There was a time when it was sort of innocent and it was our ignorance and we said, “Oh, it’s just a blob of tissue; it’s just a mass of cells.” But anybody with a brain and anybody with any sort of understanding of science, and anyone with any sort of intellectual honesty can say, “It’s not a clump of cells.” We know better than that.”
You can watch her full speech here
(Abby Johnson Kentucky Senate Testimony February 14, 2019)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7S75…
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In the end the choice is up to a woman, her doctors, her family, and her religion. My body, my choice. Some pro-life throw that "what if you mom aborted you?" well...in my case, it probably would have helped. My birth mom had 13 children and she could take care of none of us. We were all put into the foster care system, I was adopted at the age of three and here I am. With no knowledge of any of my siblings saved a brother who is younger than me by a year.
Maybe I would have been the same person if born at a later date or year...or maybe I would have been somebody totally different. Who knows? We never will.
But you do forget that some men are liars and lower than dirt. They have their tricks and can do things behind their partner's backs. Should that woman be forced to pay the price for the bastard's manly pride? Hell no, there was an article on Tumblr that reminded me why I hate men for the most part.
I am not sure if I want to have children, I am pretty undecided in regards to my sexuality...though I feel I may be a little bi...
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I don't care about your/her body, I care about the baby's body. He just too little to stand up for himself.
I for one am certainly glad you're alive, and I do consider you to be a friend. I personally have an adopted sister, and even though we aren't that close, I'm still thankful that her mother didn't abort her. If she would've done that then I wouldn't have my sister or my nieces and nephew whom I also love dearly.
As for my story, my parents were told that I was at a very high risk of Down Syndrome along with other mental/physical disabilities. The doctor was going to do the test to make sure, but at that time in our state when the test came back it would've been too late to abort, and my parents just looked at each other and said "it doesn't matter, we aren't going to abort this baby" (keep in mind that my mom threw up for the whole pregnancy)
Do I have my problems? Yes, but everyone does to some extent. But I am personally thankful for my life.
There are many women who are also liars and 'lower than dirt'. I could give you many cases of woman who lie about being pregnant, or fake miscarriages, or pretty much anything else you can think of. Everyone alive on this earth has the capacity of being horrible. But hating men (for the most part) is just.. sexist.
"Should that woman be forced to pay the price for the bastard's manly pride?"
Should that baby be forced to pay the price because his/her father was a horrible person? Two wrongs don't make a right.
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But if the mother dies, then the baby will die. So in the end, it really is her choice. I like babies, but I won't force somebody to do what they do not want to do.
You forget that some men can have an intense hatred of women and many crimes have been committed because of that. I don't hate all men, but from what I've seen...a lot of them are bad apples. You never know who you might end up with...and I have seen a lot of examples of how bad it can go.
As for this...well you could ask Axes. Her boyfriend was an abusive asshole who pushed Axes to the brink just about, and she was pregnant when she finally got free of him. You think she wanted his child? Nope, she aborted it and later found the love of her life and had a daughter she loves to the moon and stars. The same is true for a friend of mine on here.
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5 month old babies can't survive without their parents either, so can the parents decide to murder them if they decide they actually don't want a baby?
I wouldn't force someone to have a baby either, I just don't want them to murdering one.
And some women can have an intense hatred of men and have committed crimes because of that too.
I understand what you're saying, I really do, but you can't judge all (or most) men based on the actions of people that had nothing to do with them. People/men are individuals, and should be treated as such.
To see what I mean, replace the word 'men' in your statement with a race; "Some black people can have an intense hatred for white people and many crimes have been committed because of that. I don't hate all black people, but from what I've seen, a lot of them are bad apples."
That baby wasn't his child, that baby was HER child. I can have sympathy for what she went through (my mother is also an abuse victim), but I have zero sympathy for how she chose to deal with it. If she didn't want her baby, for every 1 baby put into adoption there are 30 couples ready to adopt. I know of this one church organization that stand outside of abortion clinics and tell women that they are ready and capable to take her baby in.
Heck if she would've came up to me on the street and asked me to take that baby, I would have.
But what's done is done, and in the words of Abby Johnson: "if you are a person in here who has had an abortion, I encourage you to seek healing, because abortion is not normal. Taking the life of an innocent human being that is your own flesh and blood and your own DNA—it’s not normal, and there are healing resources available."
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I would love to see what Axes would think of you, especially since she has a shirt that says point blank "The Devil Made me Do It". And boy does she love it. But she is not a confrontational person so she would probably either ignore you or walk away. Nobody even knows she had it done except her twin and it was by accident.
That lady sounds like a total bitch and Silenxia would certainly have words to say. She would say that yes, she does need healing. But not the kind that this idiot is suggesting. Violence is, unfortunately, a part of human nature. Any person is capable of committing murder, it does requires the right circumstances.
Call they both murders, Axes's friends and family would probably tell you to... and Silenxia would not be affected at all. But in her eyes it is not murder, because she knows murder. She has killed people and ordered the torture and executions of people. She is a queen and knows what she wants.
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thats nice but i literally gave you sources
and you're still saying i dont have any proof
honestly if you don't know by now that the political positions of conservatives and liberals have swapped over the past hundred years, you've got a big storm coming..
one of the biggest hypocrisy of the 'pro-lifers' (anti abortion and bodily autonomy) is that the second a women cant provide for her (now a) child, she should 'have thought it through'.. And you're misrepresenting data; Abby Johnson is anti-abortion. You phrased it as if she was someone who still worked in the healthcare industry.
My mother worked in healthcare/nursing/planned parenthood for over 20 years. She has had death threats, bomb threats, and verbal abuse, simply for giving women access to healthcare. I have been in her old office, and let me tell you, no women is laughing and smiling after an abortion. Its not just for funsies, its hard. But whats harder? being stuck with a child you cant provide for, aren't ready for, or just don't want. Everything Abby Johnson said? about how nurses and staff 'jokingly reffered' to things as? if thats actually true they would have been fired. Abby Johnson ALSO opposes birth control ["Johnson has since adopted the consistent life ethic , opposing not just abortion—in all cases[13] —but also the death penalty and euthanasia.[14] She affirms natural family planning over the use of any form of artificial birth control .[13] "]
She isn't even a doctor! And ya know what? i'd like you to share one doctor you know, who worked in planned parenthood, who can confirm ANY of the bullshit details this Abby Johnson shared. im not going to make you see sense, and honestly explaining this to you feels like arguing with a toddler.
this may be immature, but im tired right now, so fuck you
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The first source you gave said things such as "At the moment of fertilization, your *baby's* genetic make-up is complete, including its sex." The second source you gave was just talking about New York's law. The second source obviously isn't talking about scientific data and is more-or-less irrelevant, but the first once never said that a embryo/fetus wasn't a baby, in fact it repeatedly called them babies ("By the end of the first month, your *baby* is about 1/4 inch long – smaller than a grain of rice!")
"have swapped over the past hundred years"
But as Abby Johnson pointed put, pro-choicers make similar arguments that slave owners and Nazi's made, so..
"the second a women cant provide for her child, she should 'have thought it through'"
There are hundreds of churches and other private organizations that help single-mothers, so I'm not exactly sure what you're meaning here.
"You phrased it as if she was someone who still worked in the healthcare industry."
I didn't mean to, and I apologize. I was trying to say she was a former worker.
And that part wasn't "data", technically.
"My mother has had.."
I'm very sorry to hear that, and I hope you and your family stays safe.
Abortion is still murder though.
"no women is laughing and smiling after an abortion"
Why not? It's just taking a pill, or it's just like having tonsils removed, right? So why would it be "hard" for them to go though it? If it's just a surgery like any other. Who cares about getting rid of a clump of cells that they might not even want? I've seen a few pro-choice women boast about their abortions actually.
"if thats actually true they would have been fired."
Even if people should be fired for something, that doesn't mean they actually are.
But why couldn't they joke about a 'clumps of cells' without being fired? Maybe they were making fun of pro-lifers that thought these were babies, why should they be fired for that?
"Abby Johnson ALSO opposes birth control"
And? So what? Martin Luther King Jr opposed homosexuality, does that mean we have to just throw away everything he did and went through?
And for future reference, quoting Wikipedia doesn't help your case lol. Because the way Wikipedia worded it, it didn't say Abby Johnson was "opposed" to birth control, it said she 'strongly encourages' natural family planning over the use of artificial birth control (but it's irreverent either way really)
"i'd like you to share one doctor"
Like Dr. Anthony Levatino? I already linked you his video though.
"explaining this to you feels like arguing with a toddler"
"this may be immature, but.."
Ironic lol
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Killing babies is wrong...
You mean like Mosskit, Snowkit, Willowbreeze's kits, Badgerfang, etc.
The Erins hate their cats, especially children for some reason.
Can't remember this code, but I did like the story
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Ok, I'll rephrase it: Killing *real* babies is wrong lol.
You can kill off your characters without hating them lol. As Vicky said "It's not like I'm actually killing cats."
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Ehhhh they can be kinda twisted when writing cat deaths
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That's one of the joys of being a writer
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I am not quite getting your meaning...indeed kits are important, but abortion is when the young at still inside the mother, which is not what happened to these three. Now if their mother had been pregnant and had been the one to fall (thus losing her life and her kits), I could see kind of what you mean.
But this code will always make me laugh, especially regarding Russetfur whose pride came back to bite her. Simple, she failed to help Berrykit and thus didn't learn Squirrelflight's trick. Then Marshkit (the Clan leader's son) gets caught in a trap and dies...I bet Russetfur really feels like an idiot. That is some karma there.
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Well, I found the story to be more symbolic than anything.
The adults had a chance to save three innocent precious lives, but they didn't think they were worth saving. The kits (babies) would have grown up to be something great.
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