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aGentlemanScientist — Speculative Phylogeny of A Song of Ice and Fire

#planetos #asongoficeandfire #biology #evolution #gameofthrones #georgerrmartin #westeros #asoiaf #childrenoftheforest #essos #speculativeevolution #whitewalker #whitewalkers
Published: 2018-05-10 03:03:23 +0000 UTC; Views: 22001; Favourites: 239; Downloads: 18
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Description I've been reading The Song of Ice and Fire book series and I really am fascinated with George RR Martin's fictional races as there appears to be an attention to detail when it comes to biology and evolution in his world. I made a speculative family tree of a few of the humanoid races. This tree is simply pure speculation based on some information scattered throughout the books and I bet it's probably incorrect to some degree. I neglected to mention and will probably add a few other humanoid races such as the mysterious Deep Ones, the Mazemakers, and Ifequevron which might effect the look of the tree in the future. For now I hope you enjoy my speculation! 

I suggest the Brindled Men of Sothoryos are one of the most basal and unrelated of all the humanoids in Asoiaf (of course excluding the Others). The Brindled Men are described in a manner extremely reminiscent of Homo erectus or Homo habilis or even Australopithecus. They are very ape-like with small craniums, long arms, and sloping brows. They possess flat noses and heavy jaws which appear like a snout making them have a much more animalistic appearance. They are in fact mistaken for apes by Victarion and are referred to by the maesters as "half-men" and often are not referred to as people, but as "animals" and "creatures". They are also much more unintelligent than many of the other humanoid races and are said to make poor slaves due to this. Ignoring the obvious racism held by many of the characters in the Asoiaf world, The Brindled Men can only reproduce with themselves and under no circumstances can reproduce with any of the other human races from Essos and Westeros suggesting they are extremely far removed from Homo sapiens and very clearly a separate species. Besides this we don't know a whole lot about the Brindled Men but it seems they are unable to communicate with or speak the languages of the other Human groups in the slightest. The Brindled Men are also from Sothoryos which seems to be Planetos's equivalent to Africa so it would make some sense if Sothoryos, like the real world Africa, was were the human races all originated. 
I suggest that the evidence supports the ancestors of the Brindled Men breaking off and separating from the ancestors of the other humanoid races very early on, probably at least a few million years ago. 

The next split between the humanoid races after the Brindled Men I suggest was a divergence between the ancestors of the Giants & Children of the Forest and the ancestors of Homo sapiens & the Ibbenese. The existence of Giants and Cotf sharing Westeros long before the First Men suggests the two might have shared the same common ancestor which crossed the Arm of Dorne. I suggest the two descended from the same ancestor and simply subsequently evolved different characteristics to fit their corresponding environments: subterranean (the Children) and polar (Giants), with both species evolving in Westeros after this migration. This may or may not be backed up by a Child of the Forest referring to the giants as "their kin" implying they believe they have a relationship to them of some kind. The Children have existed in Westeros for at least 1 million years according to them and odds are this might be an underestimate so this is enough time for a bit of evolutionary change to occur. I find the fact both the Children and Giants can both speak the languages of Humans (the Common Tongue for the Children and the Old Tongue for the Giants) and being intelligent enough to understand them suggests they have a closer relationship to Homo sapiens than the Brindled Men do. The Children however can speak the True Tongue a language Homo sapiens are simply incapable of speaking. There are rumors of hybrids between the Children and Humans (Crannogmen) and Giants and Humans (Hodor) but there's little evidence to support this.
All of this however might be disputed by the fact Giants and Cotf might have existed or still exist in Essos as fossil remains said to belong to Giants and legends of Giants and Ifequevron (who share many similarities to the Children) might support the idea the two already evolved in Essos before crossing into Westeros and did so independently. 

The last and probably best supported split was between Homo sapiens and Ibbenese. The Ibbenese are a short, squat race of humanoids that for the most part resemble Homo sapiens aside from sloping brows and eye ridges and being covered in thick hair. The Ibbenese very clearly resembled Neanderthals of the real world, the closest relatives to Homo sapiens. The Ibbenese seem to be able to speak in the languages of Homo sapiens and seem to be able to integrate with humans easily. They appear to be the most Homo sapien-like of all the humanoids and this makes me think they are also the closest related. Ibbenese and Homo sapien hybrids are said to be rare and often impossible, but hybrids between the two are said to exist some being sterile while others seem to be healthy and fertile such as Ben Plumm and Casso Mogat and the inhabitants of Skagos. It seems the Ibbenese are in the process of diverging into a separate species but are not yet fully different species from Homo sapiens as it seems they are somewhat capable of breeding with other humans to a degree and under certain conditions. The Ibbenese again seem to mirror the Neanderthals of the real world who are somewhat similarly transitional between different species and sub-species appearing to have bred with prehistoric Homo sapiens. The Ibbenese and Homo sapiens sharing a recent common ancestors seems highly plausible due to their similarities and fertility and is something theorized by a few maesters. 

The Others (or the White Walkers for show watchers) are probably the most difficult to classify of all the humanoid races of Asoiaf. Classifying the Others is especially difficult as Martin hasn't really described them in the slightest and its unclear how closely if at all he will follow HBO. The Others in the books differ wildly from the show as the show excluded their invisible color-changing armor and their light saber esk swords. Martin's descriptions of the Others and their equipment in the books to me simply sounds like advanced technology and I'm a support of the idea they are extraterrestrials or an advanced culture that medieval peoples simply think are magic. The existence of magic outside of telepathy in the books appears to be kept ambiguous. Martin has been quoted as saying the Others "are strange and beautiful... a different sort of life... inhuman" which to me evokes the extraterrestrial beings of Lovecraft. Ignoring the idea that they were magically created from humans, to me the Others seem to be very unrelated to all life on Earth. Their entire anatomy seems alien in appearance and everything from their blue blood to their crystal skeletons screams inorganic life having an entirely separate evolution from biological life. I suggest the Others evolved from silicon-based or some other kind of substance based lifeforms and had an independent evolution based on crystallized life rather than biological life. You heard it from me, the Others are aliens! Odds are I'm an idiot and am looking too deeply into things, but who knows Martin loves Sci-fi and loves Lovecraft. 

What I really like about A Song of Ice and Fire is that information, especially reliable information, about the outside world is incredibly limited and due to the scientific illiteracy of the setting one can't help but feel like Darwin trying figure out the mysteries of the world. You feel like an actual scientist trying to make sense of a mysterious and undiscovered world. Tell me what you think of my speculations because I'd be happy to hear thoughts  
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Comments: 78

MatrixRunner57 [2023-06-27 05:54:05 +0000 UTC]

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MatrixRunner57 [2022-01-08 07:11:38 +0000 UTC]

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Pweada [2021-06-13 10:09:53 +0000 UTC]

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CristusMancus [2020-05-17 01:28:37 +0000 UTC]

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Pootisman90 [2019-12-19 08:13:44 +0000 UTC]

So... Ibbenesse are dwarves and Brindled Men are orcs.

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CristusMancus In reply to Pootisman90 [2020-10-30 03:13:49 +0000 UTC]

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Pootisman90 In reply to CristusMancus [2020-10-30 15:30:08 +0000 UTC]

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CristusMancus In reply to Pootisman90 [2020-11-01 14:49:59 +0000 UTC]

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Pootisman90 In reply to CristusMancus [2020-11-01 16:40:04 +0000 UTC]

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CristusMancus In reply to Pootisman90 [2020-11-02 04:01:10 +0000 UTC]

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CristusMancus [2019-11-21 15:14:29 +0000 UTC]

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william023 [2019-06-26 12:57:34 +0000 UTC]

I was watching your biology of giants video and it hit me, so the trolls from Harry Potter movies fit the discription perfectly. 

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CristusMancus In reply to william023 [2020-10-30 03:17:29 +0000 UTC]

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william023 In reply to CristusMancus [2020-10-30 08:23:05 +0000 UTC]

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CristusMancus In reply to william023 [2020-11-01 14:49:33 +0000 UTC]

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william023 In reply to CristusMancus [2020-11-04 21:10:09 +0000 UTC]

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CristusMancus In reply to william023 [2020-11-05 15:20:33 +0000 UTC]

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william023 In reply to CristusMancus [2020-11-05 17:27:57 +0000 UTC]

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CristusMancus In reply to william023 [2020-11-06 00:27:53 +0000 UTC]

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TheDinoDrawer66 [2019-04-11 00:24:48 +0000 UTC]

This is really interesting! It is nice seeing some science in fantasy series, as It makes it feels more realistic and based.   Also I like how you were saying that the White walkers were essentially aliens.

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CristusMancus In reply to TheDinoDrawer66 [2020-10-30 03:18:18 +0000 UTC]

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TheDinoDrawer66 In reply to CristusMancus [2020-10-30 10:59:53 +0000 UTC]

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CristusMancus In reply to TheDinoDrawer66 [2020-11-01 14:49:09 +0000 UTC]

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buried-legacy [2018-12-29 04:24:08 +0000 UTC]

Brilliantly done. Do keep it up

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CristiBoss [2018-08-12 20:11:59 +0000 UTC]

IIRC the ibbenese are indeed intentionally meant to be like neanderthals.

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CristusMancus In reply to CristiBoss [2020-10-30 03:18:53 +0000 UTC]

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GuesssWho9 [2018-07-08 23:20:37 +0000 UTC]

There are real animals with blue blood, although it is pretty rare.

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CristusMancus In reply to GuesssWho9 [2020-10-30 03:19:17 +0000 UTC]

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adam-ant2 [2018-06-29 01:22:27 +0000 UTC]

It would have been nice if you placed a homo sapiens up there to give a better sense of scale.

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aGentlemanScientist In reply to adam-ant2 [2018-06-29 03:47:18 +0000 UTC]

Yeah I probably should have put a Westerosi man or something in the line up, maybe a Jon Snow or Dany for scale

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CristusMancus In reply to aGentlemanScientist [2020-10-30 03:20:08 +0000 UTC]

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adam-ant2 [2018-06-06 00:51:56 +0000 UTC]

What happened to the White walker's right shoulder?

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aGentlemanScientist In reply to adam-ant2 [2018-06-06 14:00:10 +0000 UTC]

He's lifting it up and is reaching for his sword on his belt

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adam-ant2 In reply to aGentlemanScientist [2018-06-06 14:29:22 +0000 UTC]

Maybe you should have placed the sword on the other side, because it looks more like it got out of the wrong side of the bed.

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Talon-11 [2018-05-24 03:23:35 +0000 UTC]

Your art reminds me of Roald Dahl for some reason. I like it!

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aGentlemanScientist In reply to Talon-11 [2018-05-24 15:03:05 +0000 UTC]

Why Thank you! ^^

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CristusMancus In reply to aGentlemanScientist [2020-10-30 03:21:48 +0000 UTC]

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TrilobiteCannibal [2018-05-20 07:43:40 +0000 UTC]

My dad actually supports the idea the Others are aliens as well, though he's read the books, and I've only watched the show. From what you say here and the tone I get I have the feeling you guys my be onto something.

I want to get more into this series, I really appreciate when medieval fantasy doesn't just take all of their inspiration from Tolkein

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aGentlemanScientist In reply to TrilobiteCannibal [2018-06-12 05:44:21 +0000 UTC]

Cool I'm not crazy after all. Definitely check A Song of Ice and Fire out as its tone is really unique in medieval fantasy. The books are almost like an anti-Tolkein with really dark themes and bleak outlooks on humanity. The books depict medieval life as just downright awful (as it probably was). Even the magic system is stilted or tainted; a character starts out inspired by Tolkein-like stories of heroes and wise wizards only to discover magic in the ASoIaF world is incredibly dark and unnatural and pretty much regrets being fascinated with it in the first place. The magic in ASoiaf especially in the books is incredibly fascinating as it is not only disturbing, but appears to be connected, with everything from the Faceless men to Melisandre's fire abilities to Warging to Greenseeing all using the same foundations. It also unlike the show is never specified if magic beyond being psychic even exists. I don't want to spoil much and I'm sorry if I have, I just really love the books. 

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TrilobiteCannibal In reply to aGentlemanScientist [2018-06-27 19:05:58 +0000 UTC]

don't worry, I've already spoiled a lot for myself

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aGentlemanScientist In reply to TrilobiteCannibal [2018-06-29 03:46:28 +0000 UTC]

Yeah me too, but I've been reading the books anyways and I really enjoy the writing style and differences between show and books regardless. The books are also a really great coming of age story and some parts really hit me hard with the feels. There's a Bran chapter in A Clash of Kings that is all about growing up and leaving your family and friends behind and it really reminded me a lot of leaving home and going off to college... it made me feel really sad and depressed for a bit, but it was also really beautiful. A lot of the Bran chapters really do that for me. 

Anyways, check it out I've been listening to them on audiobook free on Youtube and its great. The woman at TokyBooks that narrates is really awesome and fits it perfectly

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TrilobiteCannibal In reply to aGentlemanScientist [2018-06-29 06:05:35 +0000 UTC]

I... never thought of doing that. I've read a lot of Lovecraft's stories on audiobook, but I always forget to look for other author's works, Thanks for the suggestion

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aGentlemanScientist In reply to TrilobiteCannibal [2018-06-30 01:25:26 +0000 UTC]

No problem
I've listen to almost every Lovecraft story on audiobook and I have to say there's some really great readers out there. There's a really great reading of Dunwich Horror and Haunter of the Darkness that I'm obsessed with both are really creepy and fit the tone so so well

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Saeros2006 [2018-05-18 17:58:52 +0000 UTC]

I didn't read the books (I tried the audiobooks, but I got bored of it during the Clash of kings. I'm not saying the books are bad, not at all! Just my personal opinion) but I browsed a few pages on the Ice and Fire wikipedia and I find the Children of the forest pretty interesting. According to that wiki, the Children have cat-like eyes, ears capable of hearing sounds humans can't and claws instead of nails.

Could it be possible that the Children evolved from some proto-feline ancestor rather than from apes? I heard that the brain activity of cats is relatively similar to that of humans. Plus forepaws of cats can be pretty dextrous (not as dextrous as ape hands, but still... I observed that furry little Black dread of mine open pantry door or grabbing and tearing-open a cat food pouch). So maybe convergent evolution...?

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aGentlemanScientist In reply to Saeros2006 [2018-06-12 05:49:40 +0000 UTC]

It's possible, it might explain the four digits instead of five. I don't buy it though, it is implied that the children and humans are closely related enough to reproduce in legends and I think it would be difficult for a race entirely independent from humans as far removed as cats to speak human languages as the Children can. I find it a bit easier to avoid convergent evolution as it can be a slippery slope sometimes and think of the easier option being that the Children are just incredibly distantly related homonids. But I think your suggestion is equally possible considering how little we know about them. 

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Saeros2006 In reply to aGentlemanScientist [2018-06-12 14:33:35 +0000 UTC]

Well, cats have four digits only on their hind legs, their front legs have first digit as a... I think it's called dewclaw, first digit that doesn't touch the ground when walking, but they use it while holding prey (something like our thumb, although it's not opposable).

But since I don't like humans and anything related, I prefer the convergent evolution A legend doesn't equal objective proof, but again, I didn't read the books so maybe it's possible for humans and Children of the Forest to breed.

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ghaztmaster2 [2018-05-17 16:18:31 +0000 UTC]

can trolls,goblins and ogres exist?

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CristusMancus In reply to ghaztmaster2 [2020-10-30 03:40:00 +0000 UTC]

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NiceGuyNicholas [2018-05-11 13:27:28 +0000 UTC]

the child of the forest looks like he is doing a Jojo pose   
It was a Jojo piece all along    

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aGentlemanScientist In reply to NiceGuyNicholas [2018-05-11 22:00:01 +0000 UTC]

XD good eye! vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/jj…

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