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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-10 12:47:03 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for such a nice words adding my drawings to a collections  
The music I put because I was listening it during drawing and I thought it's so good that it should be popularized. 

You know, there would be painful to design something and live long enough only to see how the foundations are made - but these people did this and I appreciate this. 

There is also the other side. One of our writer and poet, who commuted suicide after the Second World War, cause he couldn't live with all this trauma and who was in a concentration camp, once noticed that all the masterpieces of the old architecture had their price in blood. He was talking mostly about ancient buildings like pyramids. Gothic cathedrals were not built by slaves, fortunately, but how many people died during building? How many of these people were just poor stone masons wanting to have enough money to feed their families?

There is a question I cannot answer: if all this breathtaking beauty was worthy of their deaths. 

This transiency is kinda sad. I do not think it's about lifespan. These people usually lived shorter then us and did such things. I think's the mass production and this "religion" of "buy more, buy new" made us to rely on short-lasting objects. 

And as one of our poet said (I'll try to translate, I don't know how proper it would be):

"The fading of absolute destroys the spheres through which it shines
The religion, philosophy and art fall into decay"

So that is the point common to the song of Haya, and another reason I put the link in here. The "spirit" is being lost. I hope that this trend will stop some day. 

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-10 16:29:14 +0000 UTC]

My pleasure, thanks for the conversation.
I goggled, are you talking about Tadeusz Borowski?

The masons.... The chief architect, would draw the design with a solid silver pencil, the rest followed this plan.. stone masons (top job), carpenters and labourers, all were paid, and apart from the labourer would have been part of a guild, it was a well sought after work, a job for life per say  and usually apprenticed from father to son. Of course there would have been blood, sweat and tears.
A little different to slave labour , but there are arguments for the 'keeping' of slaves in ancient times, specially in a  household, a well-fed slave from a good house and master was respected in many ways.

There are sacrifices made in the name of love, religion and self preservation , always have been and always will be, such is our existence, as for 'beauty ' well that's in the eye of the beholder, remember!

Its said that future generations could live a thousand years, this long lifespan should  change the way we live .

I agree there is a modern idea of the new,   the latest thing , state of the art etc,  its not so much that objects are short lasting but rather, they quickly become obsolete as technology gathers momentum, even on a household level folks want change regularly, and why not live in a newly decorated house from time to time.

I think you are translating Hegel's aesthetics, I love a good philosophical debate, the less 'facts' the better.
If its true we live in an infinite universe then the  possibilities are as infinite.

Perhaps I am too optimistic, but I do believe in freedom , choice is key, good choices and bad ones drive evolution , the life of a nomadic horseman/woman will return sometime ,someplace, someone will choose it so.

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-10 22:53:14 +0000 UTC]

Ha, it was Borowski, impressive that you managed to google him on so scarce information. 
The second poet mentioned was Tadeusz Różewicz. He survived war, but his faith in humanity was broken. 

Yes, I think that people participating in building a cathedral probably were proud that the work of their hands would preserve centuries. And they were free men. I simply feel pity for those who died or were seriously harmed during the building. I can't even imagine how they could work so high without decent protection. 

By the way, all this talk reminded me the TV series about building a cathedral, made on the Ken Follett's book "The Pillars of the Earth". 

About the long living (sorry, I don't know why it changed into italics) - I quite don't believe that. I've once read popular science book when it was explained that our brain would suffice for maximum 120 years. 

Hmm, I have to say that I don't know about Hegel's view on aesthetics. I just don't believe into Platon's goodness-truth-beauty. Truth may not be beautiful, and sometimes it can be evil. Beauty can be a lie and so on. 

About the loss and similar: I didn't exactly mean the nomadic life, but something I think deeper, some way of perceiving world, some system of values, of course if it was developed in nomadic culture it will be associated with their lifestyle. But I think you may live at one place and still remember your ancestors and cultivate some traditions. 

For example (leaving nomads) I like a lot some songs of the Faroese singer Eivor. She sometimes mixes tradition with modern music, like here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWHEFi…

And I mean some kind of depth in the humans' lives. Some additional layer. I am rather a materialistic one, in philosophical terms, but I think that we may choose and create more, some additional dimension of our lives. Find a meaning for ourselves. 

As you said - a choice. 
In Dan Simmons' Hyperion/Endymion tetralogy once appears a new Messiah - thousands of people are gathered to listened what she would say. They expect a long sermon. But she says only one sentence "choose once more" 

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-11 10:50:33 +0000 UTC]

Ha! Two Thaddaeus's, I will enjoy to read some  poetry from Poland ..thanks!

Hmm ! working up high, I'm reminded of the new York skyscrapers built by north American Indians, there are some great photo's.

I too was thinking about "Pillars of the earth", and wondered if you had seen it ,cool!, the books are better really but the tv series' were well done.

Plato is a head spin of contradiction and reduction, we can leave philosophy for now then, but perhaps we can find another time for a good philosophical conversation .

I think I get what you are saying, a spiritual connection to nature and ancestors being lost ( video link would not play, but I will listen to some of her songs)  
"Find a meaning for ourselves" .. have you read any Buddhist writing?

A feminine Messiah, perhaps she said "shoes once more",  

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P28qa…

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-11 12:28:11 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome

I know that some of his (I mean TR) poems were translated into English. 
I would rather suggest his earlier poetry, cause in these written when he was an elderly man I find some... loss of freshness of sight and it seems that he doesn't understand many aspects of the modern world.

I've looked at some translations which can be found in the net, however they don't sound in English as good as in Polish. In Polish they hit you. 
For me poetry is about finding right words which cause some kind of emotional resonance in the readers. The best poets find words that resonate in the minds of large groups of people. 
You can translate word into the word of similar meaning, but it may not cause the same net of associations and feelings in the other language speaking reader.
Plus semantic fields are not fully overlapping.
Plus character - in Polish the word order is far less strict than in English, so that authors may play with it made you think to which part of the poem the certain words refer - that what was before, or after, or both. 
On the other hand, you have this large amount of short verbs which have so different meanings depending on a context. In Polish we have whole system of prefixes, suffixes and other changes which change their meaning for example - another word if the action which was ended, another if not, another for recurring action - you have your system of tenses for that. 
Plus word play.
Plus all the tradition, cultural context, proverbs, other art and so on. 

Considering philosophy I don't know much about it. Once I needed to write an essay about Greek philosophy at school, so that I remember a little bit. But a little. And I am not missing it much, cause all those elaborated systems for me are just mind play. 
There was an Polish encyclopedia written some centuries ago, and there under entry "horse" it was explained "everybody sees how the horse looks like". This entry became some kind of proverb. So kinda respectively - everybody sees how the word looks like. Some may argue that it's too simple, but I'd prefer simpler explanation.

Sorry for a link, on mine browser it works it was a song titled "salt". There are also live versions. I like it the most of her songs. 

I haven't read Buddhists texts actually.  
Not every woman is obsessed by shoes however many are, I have to admit. 
I listening the music, intriguing. 

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-11 18:28:20 +0000 UTC]

I will check for early works then.(TR)
Yes poems can get lost in translation, you explain the problems rather well though, shows your mastery of the English language, I really like your use of resonance in an emotional sense , bravo!

Jokes also get lost easy, I imagine 'shoes' and 'choose' don't sound similar at all in Polish.
Good writing ,poetical and  comical is a play on words in many ways, so cultural or regional nuances are difficult hurdles to get over, perhaps visual and sonic resonances are more easily crossing borders, they  waves that reach us directly , physically, without too  much pre conceived intellectual concepts.

Well you come across as quite philosophical to me, although I agree there is a kind of mind play involved, but as long as this is constructive rather than destructive I like this aspect.

I think some Buddhist philosophy will appeal to you, I am reading a book by the Dali lama, "The universe within an atom" there is an attempt to combine science and religion which is no bad thing in my mind, its the devotion of  one or the other that is  the problem with humanity for me at least, we need the spiritual and the practical realities in life.

Will look for Salt song

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-13 14:31:40 +0000 UTC]

I hope that you'll not be disappointed. I've read a little English poetry, but it seemed to me so cold and intellectual. 

Maybe that was the reason why Polish poets who got the Nobel prize in literature were Miłosz and Szymborska, which also wrote in the intellectual manner. Or maybe it was wrong deduction cause based on very limited number of examples.

But, I think - but I am not a literary scholar - the majority of Polish poetry is emotional. There are a lot of "raw" feelings in there. Like here:

(Różewicz)

"See my mother
she's bearing a tear
and asks 
where do you go?
see me
distorted clown
naked as a tear
I don't know"

"I'm twenty years old
I'm a murderer
I'm a blind tool in an executioner's hand"

(Broniewski)

"I'm walking vigorously
my life falls off me like an autumn leaves
which leaves?
of oak, birch, poplar
and it hurts"

"O, my dead daughter 
the thread of a miserable song 
wants to bind me deathly
and fall into me 
But I will say to the words with all my despair
that they mean nothing"

(Wojaczek)

"I write love for you
Me, nameless
sleepless animal
I write terrified
alone facing you
whose name is to be
The flesh of the prayer
which you are the bird of"

Translation by me, but from the memory, so this can be even less accurate. 

Thank you for a compliment You're right about word plays.
And you wrote it accurately about "pre conceived intellectual concepts"

I like to think about the world and life, but I understand that professional philosophy is knowing a lot about history of philosophy and specific vocabulary. 

But I've heard that Buddhists believe that world is only an illusion and the most desired aim is to get into a state where/when you do not feel any needs, and desires. I have to say that nirvana doesn't sound well for me

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-14 01:46:09 +0000 UTC]

I'm pleased, you're right emotional poems indeed, my first thoughts and thanks for the translations, impressive memory, anyway, is there any rhyme involved in the original Polish versions?

So the first two were about death , heavy!, raw  and painful, much appreciated nonetheless,,, the last one I like a lot.

A link to a famous  poem

www.poetryfoundation.org/poems… .

I too like thinking about life our earth and worldly matters, but also the inner and outer perspectives of physical and metaphysical realities and concepts.
I suppose many professionals enjoy to have  advanced knowledge through intense study, and there is a passion to be admired in such refinement ,.
Then again, simply being interested means one can at least dip a toe into any intellectual sea.

When the toe dipper has a love of nature and the arts at heart, then I find it difficult to consider that imagination would not at some point wonder about where it all began and how does it  all end.

may you feel sound where you are then....
It could be said my philosophical friend , that Nirvana is a state of no suffering, a place of peace that knows no sacrifice, then again, I'm only an occasional bather in the Buddha's light of love  

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-14 17:38:02 +0000 UTC]

Or it may be that I remembered the emotional poems better. 
But still I think that there are a lot of them in Polish poetry. 

The first one - I think it's more about a being lost in life. This is a fragment of long poem, however I do not remember the rest of it. 
So the first quote doesn't have rhymes but has a rhythm. 
In the second fragment,no rhymes, about the rhythm it's not easy to say for me, but it doesn't sound like prose, so it may be some. 

The Broniewski's poems are rhymed, however I chose to translate words rater accurately then try to find rhymed versions instead. The poet's daughter died young due to leaky gas installation.

The last one isn't rhymed. Wojaczek liked exposing ugliness in his poems, which I din't like actually. This one was different, so I liked it. I think that I this one I managed to "catch" some melody of an original. Unfortunately for him, he commuted a suicide. 

But, I have to say that many of our poets live long - Różewicz for example was worrying about the world around him but lives peaceful family life, out of the spotlight. 

Thank you for a link. My English vocabulary is still not enough wide, I needed to check the meanings of many words which was not good for perception of the poem as a whole. 
Considering English-language poems I know I like "Ephemera" by Yeats the most. But as I told. I've not read many of them. 

I agree with you - I mean fragment about reflections over the world and us in it. 

I agree that our desires and what we want make us suffer so rejecting it is a way to live in peace. Still it is the state of kind of stagnation. If this would be true, I'd rather choose another incarnation Or maybe I'm still to young to appreciate this? 

Have a good Sunday!




 

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-17 21:04:04 +0000 UTC]

Had a lovely Sunday , thank you.

It is difficult to relate to poetry in our circumstances, I really appreciate that you try to reconcile  some of the differences.
I had been picking up a poetry vibe on the airwaves the last few weeks , your obvious interest and kind sharing of your passion for  poems I am finding somewhat of an education and inspiration, if not to actually write poetry , then at least to feel and express some emotion.

I had a google , there are poems that don't rhyme , I kind of think they should,  with rhythm too.

Finding the right sound and feeling should flow, as in a painting or a song,  I am thinking about abstraction, I suppose its similar in sound and vision, where the raw and visceral can be deep and primal,  Rothko's dark  tomb-like paintings for example.
Perhaps the harmony is in the rhythm and rhyme and I like Hocus-pocus.

Poor Wojaczek , so much tragedy he could not bare it anymore.

Well I doubt you are to young if we are considering your soul in a reincarnation sense, of course all our desires don't cause suffering quite the contrary, and some  suffer the mortal coil quite contentedly.
I wonder,  if in a philosophical understanding, we accept  two states, the organic living and the eternal  spirit/soul.
Now lets say these two can combine in you , and this is your choice,  does  not the idea of leaving a higher infinite state of being seem odd to you , wanting to keep repeating the finite physical union with life is the stagnation of your soul,  mine or any other soul.
For me enlightenment is a one way ticket, nirvana or bust and I'm not convinced .
In a way perhaps I think like you , Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens, for now I'm enjoying the ride , I don't know if its a free ticket or paid for,  one I chose or was given and if its a one  time only  trip.
With regards to suffering and pain, its natural to feel but also to seek relief from such things , thank goodness for  pleasure and joy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQiOA7… .
Have fun!

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-20 20:07:08 +0000 UTC]

I have to say that I was most interested when I was a teenage, I mean I read the most poetry then. Later, I have to admit that I read much less. 
I also tried to write some, but when I saw that I simply don't have this talent to find the right words, I stopped. 

Older Polish poetry is rhymed and with regularly dispersed accents (the most common it type with 8 of 13 syllables. The, as we call them "white poems", without rhymes become popular in 20th century. I have to admit that my favourite poets write non-rhymed poems, however I can appreciate word mastery in traditional metres. 

I checked the Rothko's paintings but I'm not much into abstract art. 
Wojaczek had much problems with alcohol, unfortunately.

Could you write in different words, cause I don't understand "some suffer the mortal coil quite contentedly"?

I din't listen carefully the lyrics, but the music seems to me kinda too joyful for them  
Have a good Sunday!

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-22 19:36:21 +0000 UTC]

Hmmm! finding the right words, perhaps a talent or a skill that can be practised,  a passion helps with any artistic expression.

The "mortal coli" is quite a well known term in English,   perhaps  have a google in Polish you may have a similar phrase.

Basically it is used in relation to the suffering of human beings in that we have the gift of life but also the knowledge it can be taken away.

The song lyrics are up-beat, I think, I suppose there could be some irony or sarcasm behind them.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ratQlf…

Had a good day thank you , enjoy your week ahead 

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-23 20:09:15 +0000 UTC]

That's possible, however I simply tend to the view that true poetic talent is something that cannot be trained. 

Tank you for an explanation. I din't know that expression. Hmmm, I cannot remind myself any Polish expression of similar meaning. 

Thank for the song
Yeah, someone told me that his kid went with the class to the "museum of forest" instead to the forest... 

Best wishes!

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-24 18:18:03 +0000 UTC]

You could be correct , it maybe  a poetic artistic talent is something one is born with,, it just occurs to me that the great artists generally have a passion for their craft that is developed from childhood.
I suppose there are so many factors its difficult to define if and why one person is born with  more  or less , it certainly seems so on an intellectual level , child geniuses exist.

Well you certainly have a talent for communicating and inspiring thought, its truly appreciated a big thank you. 

Best wishes for you too!

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-24 18:58:10 +0000 UTC]

I don't insist, it's only my opinion. 
Every talent needs to be polished by hard work, of course. 
Or maybe - I think that if someone is intelligent, has wide enough vocabulary and an "ear" for his/her own language melody and some knowledge about literature can learn how to "weave" a nice poem, you know kind of those written about nice evenings, flowers in the mountains and so on. 
But only few can write a poetry which "grab you for your throat" 
(but of course it can be also a question of having similar sensitivity)

Today for example I went to see an exhibition of Japanese prints titled "Ukiyo-e masters" These were including the series of women's portraits and in the description it was written how perfectly author showed beauty of these women. Which did not seemed beautiful for me at all

Thank you for a compliment I like to exchange thoughts and ideas   

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-24 22:26:08 +0000 UTC]

Yes I see what you are saying...there is a subjective relationship between the artist's effort and the receivers ears/eyes, this condition can be  more cultural ,  also  occasionally a universal " throat grab".
In a sense a poem touching on common themes reaches a wider audience , whereas a subtle or extremely  focused poem may catch less attention but have a more  powerful effect.
 Maybe ones sensitivity,  being 'in-tune', having an open mind and heart and in the right place and time that makes the moment.

How nice to visit an exhibition of Japanese prints (I have a  deck of Ukiyo-e tarot cards , not a beauty in sight  ) 
What was your favourite print?

Save the trees 

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-25 18:34:20 +0000 UTC]

Hmm, from this exhibition?  Difficult to chose one

These i liked the most:

www.roningallery.com/media/cat…

www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/…

www.ohmigallery.com/DB/Images/…

And of course:
lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/jpd…

I like a lot Japanese "untamed" composition and dynamic framing (I don't know if this is a proper word)

Save the trees indeed   

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-26 14:06:44 +0000 UTC]

Very interesting , yes I like this tradition from Japan and China , you chose the ones with some human interest, I like very much the Hiroshige, such movement, and the  naked backside made me smile.
and 'of course' Hokusai and mount Fuji, I would have chosen one of the wave pictures if they were in the exhibition.

'untamed' could be a good word, 'wild' is similar, although the tradition does have the usual oriental disciplines of method and style.
These prints were popular with some of the impressionist artists , it's easy to see why, as we have no comparison in European art at that time.
Thank you for sharing some of your adventure east 

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-26 19:45:17 +0000 UTC]

 
The Hokusai's print with big wave was on the exposition also, however it is so well known, for example I had a notebook with the reproduction of it... so it is less "fresh to see". 

I like Impressionists a lot  
You're welcome and have a good incoming weekend   

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-26 21:49:15 +0000 UTC]

Haha! that emoji is hypnotic.

I sometimes wonder what would have been the best time to be an artist; and as much as I also like impressionist period, I'm fascinated by the art movements that develop a little later.

Thanks Beata have a good one too  
 

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-27 19:54:24 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, it kinda start a revolution
However, Impressionists are especially dear to me, maybe because I'm a myope and my way of seeing the world when I take off my glasses is similar to their paintings

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-29 00:30:46 +0000 UTC]

Imagining you seeing Notre-dame like a Monet painting.
Yeah, a  kinda mental revolution , there's a lot to be said for art reflecting the natural and beautiful world around us.
Maybe for pure physical joy I would be an impressionist, I wonder sometimes that my fascination with the metaphysical is a lost cause 

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-29 12:25:13 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, when I got glasses adjusted to match my disability I was totally surprised - so there is possible to see trees' branches from that far. The world looked so different with all these contours

 

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hydragon55 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-09-29 18:38:15 +0000 UTC]

Must have been quite a revelation for you. 
Science helps see the detail in many ways.
Miłego tygodnia! 

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-29 19:20:37 +0000 UTC]

I wish you a good week too   

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hydragon55 In reply to hydragon55 [2019-09-11 18:54:19 +0000 UTC]

Found it , nice little song , thanks, 
was guided to this one searching for yours.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRg_8N…

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to LawrenceCornellPhoto [2019-08-18 13:24:18 +0000 UTC]

Thank you very much for kind words and the favs Have a good Sunday   

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LawrenceCornellPhoto In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-08-25 13:21:20 +0000 UTC]

You're very welcome Beata

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to stalker034 [2019-08-17 14:49:15 +0000 UTC]

Great that you enjoyed Thank you for your kind compliment   

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stalker034 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-08-17 15:12:46 +0000 UTC]

yes, I very love and my pleasure, my dear friendBeatrycze                                                                                      

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to ToveAnita [2019-08-17 14:48:42 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for a compliment!   

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ToveAnita In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-08-17 17:48:41 +0000 UTC]

You’re very welcome!   

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to WhoAreYou1978 [2019-08-17 14:48:02 +0000 UTC]

Thank you very much for this comment

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WhoAreYou1978 In reply to BeatryczeNowicka [2019-08-17 15:43:31 +0000 UTC]

 Welcome 

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BeatryczeNowicka In reply to xjames7 [2019-08-17 14:47:39 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for a comment and adding to a collection! 

I am glad that you liked, especially when I feel worried for the unwanted effect of "splitting apart". 

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