Comments: 15
Helixdude [2016-12-19 07:58:08 +0000 UTC]
It does look more like an actual whale instead of a sea reptile.
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Jdailey1991 [2016-07-17 15:11:41 +0000 UTC]
The problem was that the Eocene was too warm for blubber to be an insulation. The whales would overheat.
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Bestiarius In reply to Jdailey1991 [2016-09-04 19:14:49 +0000 UTC]
Not really. Modern whales which live in very warm tropical waters have blubber as well.
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Jdailey1991 In reply to Bestiarius [2016-09-04 19:57:54 +0000 UTC]
What would the point be, then?
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Bestiarius In reply to Jdailey1991 [2016-09-05 20:34:09 +0000 UTC]
That the warm water is no argument against the presence of blubber in archaeocetes. There are also today whales in very warm seas like the Red Sea for example, even very large species with thick layers of blubber like sperm whales. Do they overheat? No. This old argument really doesn´t make much sense, and after all, it also only a just-so-story that early whales had no blubber because the seas were warmer. That´s really a massive over-generalization and simplyification.
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Jdailey1991 In reply to Bestiarius [2016-09-05 21:38:45 +0000 UTC]
That doesn't answer the question. Why wear blubber in warm water?
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Bestiarius In reply to Jdailey1991 [2016-09-08 19:27:07 +0000 UTC]
And this realistical reconstruction of Dorudon has not even much blubber anyway. It´s mainly the neck area which is thicker, what would have also resulted into a more streamlined body shape. I also think you have a somewhat erroneous idea what blubber is, and have only huge layers of fat in mind. And you also didn´t respond to the points I mentioned. You claimed the Eocene was too warm to for blubber, and whales would overheat. First of all, do you have any references for this? Or how do you explain that even huge blubbery whales obviously doesn´t overheat even in the warmest modern seas?
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Bestiarius In reply to Jdailey1991 [2016-09-08 19:13:13 +0000 UTC]
Because even "warm" water is not so warm that a mammal would not still loose body heat. Even some of the warmest modern seas like the Red Sea are "only" 20-30°C on average, what also depends on the area and time of the year. If you would spend several hours in water of 25°C, you would still cool down. And of course it´s colder in deeper water anyway, even in the tropics. There is obviously a reason why all cetaceans, even those which live only in warm tropical waters, have blubber.
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PCAwesomeness [2015-06-21 22:26:26 +0000 UTC]
That old one looks anorexic. I kinda like the new one!
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Bestiarius In reply to PCAwesomeness [2016-09-04 19:16:31 +0000 UTC]
You can still find a lot of modern depictions which look like the "old one".
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oakozz47 [2013-12-08 02:54:55 +0000 UTC]
I like your thinking. Something always seemed a little odd about the archeocetes to me, and now I know what it was! Now that it's been pointed out, I really don't see how your speculations on lips, cheeks, and "noses" can be anything other than the default reconstruction. The only alternative, after all, is that whale ancestors had them (there's no reason to think their ungulate ancestors lacked these typical mammal traits), lost them, and then got them back before branching into all extant lineages; An improbable occurance, to say the least! Your speculation on necks is less obviously correct, but certainly makes good sense. All that being said, I am curious; Do you know of anything that could help to directly confirm or deny your conclusions, or talked to anyone who might?
By the way, I love your gallery!
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Bestiarius In reply to oakozz47 [2013-12-08 13:28:21 +0000 UTC]
I wrote a long blog-post about this some time ago. It´s in German, but there are a lot of photos which show the anatomical traits: bestiarium.kryptozoologie.net/…
It´s not that easy to "prove" the existence of soft-tissue like lips, cheeks, nostrils and fat necks in archaeocetes, but from a logical view, it´s even harder to explain their absence.
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DarthGojira [2013-10-04 13:43:56 +0000 UTC]
Thank you! Just because they're archaeocetes doesn't mean they weren't whales! Whales do not look like this!
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