dkfenger In reply to Ray-D [2019-12-27 04:33:36 +0000 UTC]

My original version (in my head, anyway) had the mother dying of cancer a year or so back... but then I realized with Venn Machines, that wouldn't make any sense.  I'm not sure how plausible "she's the chair" really was, but... eh, I was in a rush...

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Ray-D In reply to dkfenger [2019-12-27 17:22:17 +0000 UTC]

You could still have done that if you placed her death before the machines' life saving properties were known.  Not that having her as a wheelchair is a problem.  Maybe the little girl will talk about her problems and good times to her wheelchair the same way that people talk to the gravestones of their dead loved ones.  And, eventually, like when the little girl gets old enough to venn, mommy can come back.  She'll have some 'splainin to do, though.

If Mindy is afraid of the idea that daddies can die, than daddy needs to hop into a Venn Machine.

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dkfenger In reply to Ray-D [2019-12-27 22:35:56 +0000 UTC]

Eh, I'd figured on "recent loss" being the key driver, and this is set at least a couple years after the Venn Machines show up.  My first cut at the "loss to venning" idea was that Mindy's mother had just vanished one day.  Venned for years with someone her husband didn't recognize in the security cam video, and taken off to who knows where as a small inanimate object.  Then I decided/realized Mindy's legs didn't work, and the idea of a custom chair (not a wheelchair, just a special Mindy-sized chair) jumped into my head.

I'm... not convinced the mother does come back once Mindy can venn.  Possibly somewhere along the line there was a substitution...

I suspect that Mindy's father already spends all his time subtly venned for insurance purposes.  Explaining that to her isn't so easy.

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Ray-D In reply to dkfenger [2019-12-28 04:49:57 +0000 UTC]

I'm kinda confused about the mother.  Did she just become unable to handle having a disabled daughter?  I'm sure that things like that happen, but it definitely doesn't reflect well on the mother, and it would be really devastating to her daughter.  She's going to need a lot of love to fill in that hole.  And if she does come back, the damage to the relationship would be pretty much impossible to fix.

If Mindy's father is subtly venned, he needs to find a way to let his daughter know that dying wouldn't be forever.  The poor girl is emotionally vulnerable.

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dkfenger In reply to Ray-D [2019-12-28 16:27:22 +0000 UTC]

The way I figure it, the mother is a bit too high strung, and the combination of crippled daughter and "medicine won't try, because Venn Machines" drove her more than a little nuts.  (I suspect there may be some guilt involved too, in that the to-remain-nameless syndrome may have been -- in her mind -- somehow her fault.  I suspect she didn't take proper care of herself while pregnant, and figures this is the result.)

Agreed on the hole in Mindy's life.  I don't know if the epilogue-monster will end up dealing with that or not.  I have a sneaking suspicion the mother won't be coming back from inanimacy well, if at all.

I don't think he's venned at all.  Will see how that progresses.

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dkfenger In reply to Uncle-Ben [2019-12-27 04:32:09 +0000 UTC]

Probably will, at some point.  I want to know what happens to them.

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dkfenger In reply to Michal1970 [2019-12-26 20:16:39 +0000 UTC]

That was the idea.  I had the idea a couple days ago, but didn't find time to write it until Christmas was basically over.  Ah well.

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Ray-D In reply to dkfenger [2019-12-27 17:24:28 +0000 UTC]

It could be worse.  The Christmas MORFS story I just posted was actually started last year.  When it kept going nowhere, even after the new year, I just abandoned it for the year.

So it's a year late, rather than just a few days.

Some days you step in it, and some days you don't.

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dkfenger In reply to Ray-D [2019-12-27 22:23:25 +0000 UTC]

Eh, a year late also kinda works.  You don't *have* to admit when the story was started...  Though in the case of Beastly Beauties, if I post another Hallowe'en chapter it'd be pretty obvious.

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Michal1970 In reply to dkfenger [2019-12-27 08:38:53 +0000 UTC]

I guess you can't win them all!

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dkfenger In reply to trismegistusshandy [2019-12-26 19:32:19 +0000 UTC]

Might happen.  I have to figure out how to deal with Mindy's crush on Alvin, though.  I tried poking things so she's actually 18 when she gets to use the Venn Machines, but it just didn't feel right.

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Ray-D In reply to dkfenger [2019-12-27 17:41:20 +0000 UTC]

Mindy is a little girl crushing on an animated stuffed animal.  While that can develop into more, it doesn't have to.  I can see it developing into a relationship where he is a confidant that she can talk to.  Lots of little girls talk to their stuffed animals, but she gets to have one that talks back.  I was thinking of putting Dirk into that role, but that story line seems to have fizzled.

Anyhow, Alvin might be cast as her BFF.

But you brought up another good point.

With Venn machines available, a lot of problems with May/December relationships goes away.  What won't go away quickly is the attitudes of society.  Also, there is the issue of different maturity levels.

Someone came up with an equation for the age of creepiness when it comes do dating.  I like the XKCD comic about it.  imgs.xkcd.com/comics/dating_po…

The practical issues of dating someone older or younger is that one is likely to die much sooner than the other, and that one will have more energy and desire than the other.  But, with Venn Machines, both problems are solved.  In fact, you won't even have the problem of people glaring and whispering.

Maybe someone will write a story about someone dating his or her best friend's widowed grandma or grandpa.  I explored that a little bit in Out of Retirement, but not anywhere near that extreme.  They both end up looking like sixteen year olds on a permanent basis.  With Venn Machines, I could see the happy couple going with a variety of looks as whim dictates.  (As long as they don't turn themselves into sparkly vampires.  )

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dkfenger In reply to Ray-D [2019-12-27 22:30:09 +0000 UTC]

I don't see Mindy untangling BFF from crush from love interest all that well.  Especially as she's not really all that used to hearing "no".  Except for on a few really critical points.  (Venn Machine use being the biggest.  They don't care who she is, how much money her father has, or how much she pleads.)

I can see some jurisdictions going with "Old enough to Venn" as an age of consent threshold (and I'm planning to poke at that point in the sequel).  I agree, when you can be any age you like, May/December isn't really a thing any more.  When people are functionally immortal, a 40 year age difference isn't so significant.  That, and you can venn to look closer in age to each other, whichever way you prefer.

I suppose if I keep the Mindy-Alvin relationship within the "standard" (hardly new to xkcd) age/2 - 7 range, it won't read quite so badly.  Still haven't entirely sorted it out, as there are other factors at play - her father being a significant one, and the terms on her trust fund being another.

Hah.  I should have a mall with a "No Xenomorphs, no sparkly vampires" sign up.  Probably in a bookstore window across from the Venn Machines, so it's not actually "official", and more as a joke.

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Ray-D In reply to dkfenger [2019-12-28 05:26:31 +0000 UTC]

My 'sparkly vampire' comment was alluding to another example of a very age disparate relation.  She was what?  Sixteen?  And he was over a century old.  How many people commented on that?  (By the way, I never read the book or saw the movie.)

It would be interesting to see the "old enough to venn" discussions.  After all, twelve was considered a marriageable age for most of history in most places.  It's only in the past couple of centuries that it was raised to eighteen.  Of course, that's much more than a lifetime, so nobody remembers it except in history books.

Like I said.  The discussions could get rather heated.

There is also the practical issue of actually enforcing it.  Young girls have been known to use makeup and older clothing to look older.  If a thirty year old man is dragged into court for having sex with someone who had just become able to venn, he could easily say that she looked thirty and that her driver's license (which was actually her junior high school ID) was unreadable.  Perhaps the prosecutor could insist that he should have demanded real ID, even if she looked older than he was.  For that matter, should the girl have had to demand ID?  I can see appeal after appeal, and lots of mess before a precedent is set down.  Plenty will see that as a fine way to cut down on the shameful modern practice of having sex out of wedlock.  Others will see it as a new, improved sexual revolution without the specter of AIDS ruining it.  Some might like using 'ability to venn' as a litmus because it's simpler.  It'll make it easier to prosecute pedophiles if there is a really easy to check litmus.  Some are loathe to prosecute what is genuine human affection rather than one person taking advantage of another.

There was a real world case where a teacher was jailed for having sex with someone only a few years younger.  When she got out of jail, they married.  That looks like the kind of miscarriage of justice that many would like to eliminate.

Of course, some genuine pedophiles will be happy to pay someone to venn into a child.  Or maybe they'll advertise on the internet for someone who likes age play.  Or a sadist might advertise for a masochist.  Or, maybe someone who is sort of a masochist, but will still cut the pain response down.

Oops... went way off topic.  That happens when it starts getting late.

You commented Mindy untangling BFF from crush.  At her age, that will be pretty difficult.  She won't have a real understanding of the difference.  In fact, does she see Marvin as a boy, or as a cuddly friend?  Maybe even, in some way, a surrogate mother.  And how will that relationship evolve?  Will she see him as an equal, or an adult with some authority over her?  It's really hard to predict, so you can pretty much write it any way you like.

As long as he stays in Alvin the chipmunk form, it will be easy for people to not see him as any kind of a potential sexual predator/partner.  When he does go back to human form, Mindy may see it as Alvin going away or dying, even if she knows intellectually that they are the same person.  And, with the past disappearance of her mother, that could hook into a lot of her earlier pain.

And how does he see her?  Right now, as a kid that needs love and help.  As she grows up, will he see her as an increasingly attractive person that he would like to date, or more like a little sister that is growing up?  That is, as a cutie that isn't in his dating pool.

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dkfenger In reply to Ray-D [2019-12-28 16:56:29 +0000 UTC]

A lot of areas have age of consent below eighteen - many states have it at sixteen, despite DA's one-age-to-rule-them-all approach.  Particularly open-minded states might add a law that says "anyone who can venn is deemed to be of age of consent", which would have interesting secondary impacts on both the dating scene and on the sort of shapes prostitutes venn into...

The whole "I didn't know she was underage" question can be entirely circumvented that way, so I can see why certain parties would push for it.  It'd be pretty much impossible for an average guy to tell that the person he's meeting is too young if she gets herself venned to look like she's in her twenties.  Fake ID isn't that hard to come by, and joe average certainly isn't going to have the tools to detect it.  I suspect it'd start in more open places (Nevada might be the leader in this, because Vegas), but every case of someone being "entrapped" by a precocious fifteen year old venned to look older will create pressure for others to pick up the same rule.

All kinds of weird stuff will happen.  The sheer variety of websites for offering to venn into this, or looking for people who'll venn into that...  Short term venns and organizations like Fantasy Escorts can keep such stuff largely private, so I don't think most people will know a fraction of what's really going on behind closed doors...

If anyone's a surrogate mother, it'd be Susie.  Both will be confidants, but most importantly they'll be friends that travel with her.  She hasn't had that before.  I don't think she'll get hung up on the chipmunk shape as such.

The day Mindy can venn, she goes from "cute kid I've been hanging out with for the past X years" to something very much else.  However it plays out, I expect Alvin to be surprised.

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Ray-D In reply to dkfenger [2019-12-29 01:25:27 +0000 UTC]

I can see precocious youngsters wanting to jump into the whole sex thing.  They do so now, and don't necessarily realize or care that their actions can ruin the life of those that they are with.  To them, if they get away with it, they have fun.  If not, they might end up getting grounded for a couple weeks.  They might know intellectually, but serious consequences are not things that they really see.  After all, we all know that teens are immortal and can't die.

As for the other side, why do older people want to have sex with underage kids?

Well, some of the kids in question are fully sexually mature, and our instincts see them as desirable.  So, some just love the idea of hanging around such beautiful people.  Those people are likely to date adults, even really old adults, who have venned to look young.  And they arelikely to venn to a young teen, too.  It will bring a whole new level of realism to age play.

Some who like to go to eighteen-barely-legal.xxx, but would never even consider hurting a real child, are likely to jump into that kind of age play with both feet.  Maybe even pre-teens or toddlers.

And nobody gets hurt.  But many are squicked.

On the other hand, some really get off by destroying innocence and hurting others.  Some may content themselves with a facsimile thereof, but there will always be those few who keep the human traffickers in business.  Perhaps adults venned to look like their victims can help run a sting, but getting a conviction might still be a big problem.  "They told me that they were selling me a seven year old, but that was part of the game.  I knew that it was a venned adult and played along."

I think that the ultimate result is that there would be a whole lot more age play among adults, and a reduction in actual victimization.  It would still happen, but not as often.

I agree with you about the whole fake ID thing.  Some people will have IDs from the special Venn ID services, but a whole lot of other people will want to hop into a Venn Machine, let their partner make a choice, and hop out.  Or, ask a friend for a certain look and then go out prowling.  They don't want to bother with the whole ID thing.  It ruins the spontaneity.  If I want to be a purple tomcat one day, and a blue vixen the next, I don't want to drop a twenty (or whatever) every time someone comes up with a new look for me.

So anyhow, there is no real way for the law to reasonably expect both parties (let's not be sexist) to verify that their partner for the night is not underage.  In fact, I could see a young teen stealing or acquiring any random ID, no matter who it belongs to, and claiming that they are that person, only venned.

Hmmm... Didn't you say that a photograph on an ID would change to your new look if you have it on you when venned?  And that a good drawing or photograph won't get changed?  I wonder if some club or organization will come up with the idea of issuing a card that has the person's picture, along with a photograph or drawing of the club's main clubhouse.  The text would be scrambled, of course.  Also, it would be ridiculously easy to counterfeit.  Still, it's a start.

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dkfenger In reply to Ray-D [2019-12-29 05:48:22 +0000 UTC]

I know, and I often come up against that in my writing.  Characters that *would* at least try to become sexually active earlier than DA considers acceptable.  Some are more aware of the long-term consequences than others.  The thing is, the Venn Machines can provide near-perfect birth control if you think to use it that way...

I'd be inclined to let consenting adults do whatever, the problem mostly comes down to what you consider "adult".  And there are some impact-on-society issues that come into play as well.  If you dismantle marriage, many other things break...  And the Venn Machines are taking a sledgehammer to the old order.  So much so that I'm a bit leery of trying to write too far into the setting's future.  (But the epilogue here will have to take on at least some of that.)

I would hope that whatever it is pedophiles get off on, venning consenting partners to younger bodies would help them find what they're looking for without hurting actual kids.  I can very much see the Trust Machines setting coming down a lot harder than ours on anyone that hurts kids in any way, because kids can't have the protection of being venned.

It seems likely that cellphones will continue to be touchstones of identity.  If you have your cellphone and can unlock it, then you can summon an Oober and pay for it, so you don't need a driver's license.  Or you could go with a "designated driver" if you're prowling in creative bodies.  Skip the bar scene, drink in private spaces - it's cheaper, and nobody's going to be asking for ID.  The underground venn party/rave scene might be "interesting".

And then you go back to work in your baseline form, or your registered venn from your history...

The law is frequently unreasonable.  There are people in jail today because they trusted the fake ID of the girl they met online.  I don't think any jurisdictions have "she lied to me and had good fake ID" exemptions for statutory rape.  (I figure that may change in some jurisdictions - that if the person is venned (showing competence) and claims to be of age, you can rely on that.  Might be wise to record it, though.)

Yeah, I don't see any easy way out of the "venned ID isn't all that useful" problem.  I can see a club using a continuity-based method for ID tracking, based on your idea.  ID with your picture (changed by the Venn) and the club picture (not changed) is only part.  A member would have to photograph it with the club's app before and after you venn.  So as members are reasonably trustworthy, the venned ID card could be scanned at the club to see that it matches the latest picture - the "swirly stuff" on the card would be unique if scanned to a reasonable level of detail.

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dkfenger In reply to Rogue7 [2019-12-26 19:32:24 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!

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