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GoddessMillenia β Kain and Raziel - Summer Bash
#kain #legacyofkain #raziel #shounenaiyaoi #x
Published: 2006-05-14 01:08:23 +0000 UTC; Views: 6353; Favourites: 2; Downloads: 26
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Description
I really tried to make this good but fucked it up
The Pen lining in all sketchy and shit.
Why Kain and Raziel again?
Because They are the best pairing in the Universe. and no one would go better with Kain or Raz then each other
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Comments: 90
This... this is Heresy.
As far as I see, this picture polluted the very notion of Legacy of Kain's story element with childish shipping.
Not to just blatantly upset you, but the way you get so angry about anyone who dares to not pander to your fantasy (shared by only a few) makes you wrong. NOW I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO THIS PART FIRST BEFORE YOU TYPE YOUR RESPONSE: Your yaoi fetish with Raziel and Kain does not make you wrong, but your attitude about those who speak with a different opinion than yours does. Take a look at what you're writing as if you had it written at you, and actually think about what you say.
Oh, and the whole Tsundere nature of Kain and Raziel isn't going to end up in sex. That's just fucked up (pardonnez mon français): How would it be done? Raziel is completely asexual, what with having no genitalia of any sort. Anyway, Kain did an unspeakable act to Raziel, who only showed his wings to Kain as an act of faith that his master would understand how he felt in this glory (he wasn't defiant, but deferrent)... and had them torn off of his back bar the tattered skin, then was thrown into the abyss.
How would you get over this? How does the man who has done do much to make you suffer become a lover? Especially when there was not this feeling to begin with?
Now, onto actual artistic critique; which there will be only briefly.
Raziel has no bottom jaw when he's in that state, and no, he doesn't grow it back. This makes him look too cartoony and 'omgkawaiidesu!!1!1one!', which neither he nor Kain are meant to be.
Consider for a moment, is Nosgoth a bright and colourful world? No, sadly, it's a dark and macabre one; a world filled with the grim and dark reality of vampiric infestation. With this in mind, I do suggest you try to capture that more in your fanart at least.
Not trying to victimise you, but to give you actual advice. I honestly think you're missing the point of the artistic style of your base story.
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he has 3 fingers (4 is reasonable but 3?) and they look kinda scrunched up, the positions are stiff, the skulls look a little flat on top but not too bad, and the green one (dont give a shit) doesnt seem to have a hand
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Yeah, Raziel had only 2 claws and an opposable 'thumb'
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Why are there circular wrinkles on their shoulders?
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...
Do you know anything at all about anatomy?
I guess the idea is OK but your drawing is awful, I'm sorry.
You should study more anatomy imo.
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this pic is soo sweet! you're like the best artist i know(besides my cousin cory who is great even tho he's not on here). i love the subjects of your pics and i'm glad that you don't let silly hate speech get you down!
you're such an upbeat person! hugs!
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Aww Thanks so much!
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aww, i love this pic, its so sweet! summer hugs!
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Did you report !LISTEN-TO-WHATS-TOLD? Or are they just *poof* gone?
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I didn't report them.
I simply blocked them from My Page.
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Oh cuz their gone.
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Well, I didn't report them.
I wasn't aware they were gone until you came here and commented.
Then I happened to look down at the previous comments and saw they were banned.
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Ohhhh..... who do you think would do that?
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Well judging from how they were acting on My page, someone could have reported them for doing something else on someone else's page
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Random Deviation button, ENGAGE!
I have no idea who these two art (your characters?), but who the subjects are doesn't necessarily dictate art, I've found (:
I like the feeling of the pic - both of those guys are very obviously happy, and the (almost) symmetrical composition is nice. You have a feel for these
Your inking isn't too bad. It helps if you just go over the pencil lines with smooth, long strokes instead of with short ones - I found that it helped a lot with my own inking, which is improving if it's still not all that spectacular. There are some good inking tutes out there, if you want links.
The anatomy and coloring here could use a bit of work, but in terms of the former you've got a decent base: The heads are around the proper size, and their arms are almost there. (Green Guy's upper arm is a bit too long, and Blue Guy's upper arm is a bit too short. Try this for an easy proportion tip: press your arms against your sides while you are sitting. Your elbows should come to your hipbones or thereabouts, and your forearms should lay along your leg until your fingertips just about touch your knee. Also, your forearm from elbow to fingertip should be a little longer than your upper arm from elbow to shoulder.) Proportion is a bit tricky to get, but with practice and time it becomes more natural. I have to say, though, that the musculature you have is pretty decent, if not spot on. You don't have far to go with that ^^!
As for coloring, I can't say much - I'm woefully out of practice in colored pencils. But in terms of general coloring, I'd suggest trying out using other colors for shading. Red, when applied right, works wonders over green for shading; orange does the same for blue. And complimentary colors aren't the limit! I'd really experiment in how colors react with each other - it's amazing what an application of color theory can do for a piece.
Overall, this is fairly good. You have a lot of potential, and you have grasped the core of art - the emotion! Great job, and good luck (:
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Hi!
The characters are Kain and Raziel from the VideoGame Legacy of Kain.
Thankies for the compliments and Advanced Critique!
I will definitely take them to heart!
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Very cool. Not much into videogames but I have some friends who play that.
You're welcome on all counts! I'm glad they helped (:
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sigh, like i said i will not continue spamming that girls work, especially after she asked.
one of the reasons why i just didnt want to have that conversation, this is just not the place.
and about the forum posts, so what ? new guys, there still some very very veteran, they comment once in a while but some are still there.
like no place has some people who dont have "complete knowledge" of it, and they say they love raziel but want to stay dead because thats how the believe it should be, no cheesy way out.
and he was "dying", considering his is sucked into the sword for eternity.
it is known that kain cared more about raziel, but thats mostly because he believes he needs raziel and his help to achieve his destiny, along the way raziel saw a few of the motives kain counted on and why he threw him into the abyss = less hate, but still some, he was condemned for years and years of suffering :E
nothing romantic in it.. he just uses metaphors that he is still what he was as a vampire, his right hand, it is stated that is what he was, his sword, he needs too, doesnt mean he wants really to be, although it probably comforts him to know it will help raziel win over that bastard the elder god.
and little kids ? why ? whats ur age ? besides, u really think the age matter so much ? mostly younger children are foolish, but many times they can be even smarter, dont go against them just because of their age.
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No what would be cheesy is if Raziel didn't come back. That would be fucking stupid.
And If Kain was only using Raziel for his destiny, then why did he risk his life, his rule, and everything he worked for by appearing before him in Avernus Cathedral?
Even after he saw the murals that Raziel was supposedly the Hylden savior, the very enemies he despises, and would kill him.
Not to mention Raziel is the only person who could kill him by devouring his soul.
Raziel did not hate Kain. He wanted to know why Kain did that to him after he was so loyal to him.
He simply lost a lot of trust in Kain which he eventually gained back through the course of the games.
If Raziel did not love Kain he wouldn't have been his 'right hand' in the first place. You do realize Raziel risks alot by saving Kain too, because Kain eventually had the Blood Reaver.
At anytime Kain could've just trapped him in the blade when Raziel wasn't cooperating.
That IS very romantic. The change time for BOTH of their destinies to be together.
Look I'm 18 and your 15 acting like a 5 year old. You just refuse to believe they are gay because you can't stand gays.
Why can't you at least admit that you don't want to look at them that way, even though I have stated all the proof, because you for some reason hate gays and are too close-minded?
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no he is refusing to believe they are gay because they are not gay, Jesus Rosie, stop forcing people to believe what you believe. You're being an oppressive bigot. Naturally I would leave you alone with your fetish as long as you don't enforce it on others, but you do, so I have a huge fucking problem with you.
OH and BTW there isn't going to be another LOK game because Eidos doesn't like this yaoi business. they deem it as "negative publicity"
So thanks a lot.
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as much as i like Raziel, and he is my all time fav character ever, bringing him back, would be cheesy, its like bringing people who are dead back to life in some.. stupid way or just ruining it..
like.. lets say.. in some game this women, important women dies, gets stabbed in the chest, everyone wants her to get to life, with some ways like, her necklace was right at the spot it hit ! or her teleportaion powers came back and she went to a safe spot ! (it has to do with the game P: anyhow its just ruining it), she gets fished out of the water (she fell in the water :E ) her friend comes and saves her, what ever it is all just.. no.. just no.. maybe raziel somehow talks through the sword or is one with kain or wtv.. but bringing him back would kinda ruin it..
btw im 16 about, and 2 years difference is hardly much, and it hardly has any meaning considering its about facts and story of a game, the only thing that matters is how i act (civilized or swearing) and my level of language.
again, ur proof are not.. proof |: u dont call this stuff proof u call the theories based on what u believe, if it was stated by the auther or in the game that they are gays, its proof, stated by anyone els has no meaning.
and what u said, still, does not count as proof, no one, apparently more then just most people, dont see it to hint love relationship, and if it was so obvious then most would have noticed.
again, all that u have said, as a guy, who has friends, this is naturel and hints nothing but raziel not hating kain anymore or just accepted his fate of being kains sword for the better, and kain needing raziel and considering him a pal or friend, which is nothing i didnt know before, kain never hated raziel like raziel did.
and u just keep calling me names |: hows thats acting older ?
now answer this question with truth, do u really believe this argument will ever end ?
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Well everyone says that when a character makes an 'ultimate sacrifice' it's cheesy to bring them back. But many characters in many other series make the 'ultimate sacrifice' and they come back. That doesn't make the series cheesy. If they aren't going to bring Raziel back in the actual game at least bring him back in the ending after everything is over.
Actually it would be better to end the series with Defiance and just let the fans interpret what happens next.
It will give Eidos no opportunity to
make a sequel that is not up to all it's predecessors, and fuck up the series.
Also I never sweared at you. And The only name I called you was 'immature'.
Which considering the fact that you can't seem to type 'you' instead of the correct spelling type 'u' is quite accurate.
Would it really kill you to type two more letters?
You say my proof is not proof how?
It is spelled out for you in the game
and there are many LOK Fans who DID realize it, and ARE into the Kain X Raziel pairing.
If you remember in Soul Reaver 1 when Zephon says to Raziel
"And You are not his Hansome Raziel anymore..."
Um and exactly what do you think that hints at?
And I already described many other examples in the games depth for you.
Not to mention, what is up with these extremely suggestive metaphors used in the game to describe them?
Like 'Fighting' each other with their 'reavers'. Raziel 'stealing Kain's heart'. Raziel becoming Kain's 'right hand' once again.
At the end of Defiance you say that is 'ordinary'. I beg to differ.
I have seen many other series/movies where a person is dying in their friends' arms. I have never seen anyone act the way they did.
Especially those people who are only 'friends' and are also the same gender.
Raziel sounds like he's having some kind of massive orgasm when his energy is being drained.
Let's face it. The way you are.
Even if Amy Hennig herself did indeed say that they were gay, you would still refuse to believe her.
To answer your question will the argument ever end. Well I can keep on going til the end of time.
Would you like me to name and cite all the examples of Kain X Raziel? If you like I can do that just for you.
You are the only person who hasn't accepted the coupling that I have even explained to before. However to further spread the fandom I could go the extra mile for you.
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if Amy would have said that of course i would be forced to agree, that will be a FACT.
and im sure there are many who are into it, regardless of they being gay or not, u know how on many games they take the characters into gay or other stuff even if the game doesnt have to do with it. also it could be because of having long conversations like this, that i am about to admit it just avoid any more X:
and some, could be truly believing that.
and what the hack does it bother that i say u, instead you, its exactly the same about ,very easy to understand, and shorter to write.. it doesnt mess up the letter like other weird short cuts ( :b4, 10x etc).
oh and defiance's end isnt "ordinary", neither is the story, i dont think any movie or game had similarity of whats happening..
alright and wait sec, sounds like having a massive orgasm ?? how the fuck come ? >_> if he sounded like that people would be bound to notice, he also should have sounded kinda happy.. there he just had troubles breathing :E
u know what ? i dont care if he comes back or not now, just make another game. just to have a proper ending.
thanks for the special treatment but i am getting tired of writing this long comments and this :E
now if u would like to talk about something els like the time i fell asleep on the floor with my feet in the heater and woke up when the socks started burning. then il be happy too.
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Well people do notice the realationship of Kain X Raziel.
Actually despite Raziel having difficulties breathing with that reaver lodged in his chest, he still sounded happy to be with Kain once more.
It's pretty stupid that you say that I have no proof that they are in love.
Yet at least I have very reasonable explanations.
You just keep saying "They're only friends" yet you have no reasons or scenerios from the game to refer to to to back it up.
It's also really stupid that you discredit anyone who thinks they are gay and especially if they too, have simialr proof.
I will agree that sometimes people make up alot of stupid pairings in some series that make no sense. Now that is stupid. But if they have very reasonable explainations as to why they like a couple then I don't mind.
Plus I found the Ending of Defiance to be a proper enough ending. Kain says he has hope to change time now and that doesn't really require a sequel. It's best if the fans just assume what will happen for themselves. In a way that would probably be more satisfiying than taking a risk on being disappointed in the next game which Eidos may blow.
By the way my brother said that you said that you made me cry. I did not cry at any time.
It takes much more to make me cry trust me.
I mean you say gay people are evil but I say that's a good thing. Hopefully they will kill all the fucking stupid retards in this word so the population of humanity will be greatly deminished.
Also that journal was not even refering to you.
Believe or not I have many internet arguements, and not just about this subject or series.
I am very knowledgable in Education and other Anime/Videogame series which I also know everything about as well.
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another long comment for me to replay on ];
im.. really.. serious.. when im saying i didnt hear happiness.. he talking feelings and serious but umm.. not happiness.. much.. really P:
u might have reasonable explanations.. but its still not solid proof, solid proof like kissing or.. amy saying that, thats something u can argue with cuz its proof..
im not sure how much to even call them friends.. raziel served kain loyaly.. dont know anything about being friends before.. it seemed more likely the story is based on motives of revenge (not really just talking about kain)..
i didnt discredit everyone.. im sure there are others like u, but it takes out a few that do that coupling thing..
that ending leaves out.. yes, also for us to assume.. but i dont want to just assume.. i wanted to know how it ends completely P:
and they wouldn't be able to ruin it if Amy came back to write for it..
im now anyway quite interested in the longest journey plot i recommended u about
ur brother.. ah.. oh, madness guy ? oh i didnt understand what he was talking about it first >_>
oh and um.. sorry if i did, but crying about something like that.. ? P: not saying u did but.. dont.. we are having here a quite normal conversation..
wow ur still taking the evil thing seriously ? :E
i wasnt sure it was me, but i was part of it, and i did want to help.
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Well I guess his tone was serious about his feelings, but when he is talking about being Kain's right hand again, I could hear bliss in his voice.
And You say that Kain and Raziel were just friends.
If that were true Raziel would not have even listened to anything Kain had to say, and would have just killed him the minute he emerged from the abyss, instead of asking for an explanation.
That's definitely what I would have done if one of my traitorous friends did that. I wouldn't care about the reason I would have just killed them. I could always get better friends.
Also notice that Kain is the only one who Raziel listens to in the series, despite the fact that Kain is the one who seemingly betrayed him.
I mean he completely ignores the Elder God and Moebius, who have not done anything to him, and instead he listens to Kain.
Shouldn't the exact opposite have happened if he didn't feel anything more for Kain?
He would have sided with Moebius and the Elder God immediately and not believed anything that Kain said about Moebius, or anything else.
Why did he still trust Kain after everything that Kain did to him and go against all the others in Nosgoth. Who, at that time, did nothing treacherous to him?
It seems a bit strange in that, if he truly hated Kain or was only connected to him as his mere friend, he wouldn't have made such a unpredictable decision.
As for people who do that coupling thing, most the Kain X Raziel fans that I have met so far. Which is like at least 50 or so.
Have commented on many things in the game that I have explained to you and are cool. If you want I can send you a list of them.
I mean it seemed like you discredited me and other fans, because you said that my evidence means nothing if Amy Hennig didn't back it up.
She may not have personally said anything on the whole Kain X Raziel thing, but to me the way she wrote it is the equivalence of saying it.
If you read the way she describes the scenes in the script. (In the Bonus Features for Soul Reaver 2).
You even disagreed earlier when I said Amy Hennig confirmed in a Q & A that Raziel was indeed possessed.
So you probably would still disagree, even if she did state that Kain and Raziel were lovers.
I still am questioning why you are so resentful of the idea.
You seem to not like to talk about feelings much.
Maybe deep down, you like the coupling but are afraid that you will be rejected by the stereotypical man, who doesn't like to show feelings to his fellow gender because the mainstream hates gays?
I do agree that there are probably some retarded Kain X Raziel fans out there that I haven't met (not mention fans of other stupid pairings).
Since I have met about 5 of those people.
So I understand what you're talking about. To be blunt I want them to die.
As for another game, if Amy Hennig returns I guess I could tolerate it. But I still doubt it would live up to Defiance, since you could play as both Kain and Raziel and that was so awesome.
It just doesn't seem like making another game, is worth having people's expectations shot down
Don't worry I am not crying, just trying to state my feelings is all.
As for awesome games. You should try Grandia II, it is my second favorite videogame series.
Legacy of Kain being the first of course.
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having ur brother on my back doesnt really help the atmosphere around the this conversation, seeing that no matter i avoid swearing or insulting, he just keeps pushing on it..
btw, my computer broke down.. again.. so it will probebly take some time till il be able to comment on ur next replay.
u know that what we are basicly doing he is just throwing theorys.. i imagin we will probably never know anyhow..
the game is very much detialed to the spot.. but remember it is a game.. we cant analyze everything of how, why, and what if, stuff sometimes happen that its just like that, be incident, unnoticebly, thats just the way it is and thats how she wanted it to be.
in other times raziel did kill kain when he had the chance, the question remains, why this time is different then the others ? is it about what kain said of throwing a coin enough times it might land on its edge ? wouldnt that work on everything ? raziel could have killed mobiues maybe then in the begining of soul reaver 2, but this is how it, it just is..
samethings happened in other games, such as.. the longest journey P:
having such a.. serious argument.. over something that might never be proved.. its.. it wont matter.. and might be pointless to waste feelings over it..
i, personaly, found kain to be more convincing, rather then bossing raziel around like the elder god and mobiues, he gives him the options, and the discovery for himself, in soul reaver 2 when he meets with kain at the pillers, he claims, after coming there to kill him, that he "didnt know why he let kain go, maybe the will to know the truth", being convinced by kain that there might bw one, i believe he is known, or just is, quite charismatic..
i wouldnt mind reading that Q&A (altough i wont be able to look at it anytime soon..) or having the exact quate of the question and answer.
they surely wont continue the series without her, and that is our only term of making a next game.
grandia.. havent heard of it.. remaind me later and could u say about whats the story.. abit ? P: though i would seriously recommand the longest journey, keeps u busy in the meantime thinking on other great stories that have hope to continue actually
goodbye.. for now.. i guess Χ:
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What??
There was no other time in which Raziel killed Kain.
Just Moebius's predictions in his Time Streaming Chambers of what would happen if he successfully managed to manipulate time.
The scenes depicted in the Time Streaming Chamber, are merely the reflections of what Moebius is planning time to be.
This is what Kain and Raziel see in the Time Streaming Chambers portents of Soul Reaver 1.
This is why Kain wants to go back in time and stop Moebius and the unseen forces from destroying Nosgoth.
There is only one time line.
Plus as Kain points out, there cannot be two sides and an edge of a coin for every incident.
Otherwise they would strain time too much and be expelled.
As for Raziel coming to the pillars to 'kill Kain'.
He says that he wants "revenge" on Kain, and he does threaten him and say that he deserves to die.
All in all, we see they are just empty threats because Raziel is hurt and feels betrayed.
Raziel could have just killed him earlier in Soul Reaver 1 the minute he emerged from the abyss.
He had many opportunities to just finish him off.
There is definitely something deeper going on as to why 'he just didn't'.
Also as I said before, it wouldn't matter if he found Kain convincing or not.
After all he went through at Kain's fault, if he truly hated Kain he would've killed him regardless.
He wouldnt have even given him a chance to speak or cared about what he had to say.
And Actually Raziel says he 'doesn't know why he lets Kain go when he has no reason to trust him'.
Yet he still does trust him for personal reasons.
He wouldn't have sought the truth in the first place, if he did not have so much confidence and trust in Kain.
Even Regardless of all that Kain did to him.
And it's more of Raziel's 'personal vendetta' of wanting to find out the truth of why Kain did that to him, rather than for Nosgoth.
But anyways 
This conversation has been quite enjoyable. It is interesting to pass information back and forth.
I will be happy to inform you more about the story of Grandia II, you can also tell me more of the longest journey.
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computer back
he did manage to manipulate time on all the other circles.. :E
2 raziels exist in the same time, the raziel trapped in the soul reaver and raziel.. raziel P: that mean there was a circle before were raziel got trapped in the soul reaver, and a time before where kain died by raziel at soul reaver 2 and couldnt save raziel from getting trapped after killing his former self..
he was going on the journey to kill kain P: just had all of his brothers on the way, he fought kain already a few times in soul reaver 1 but he all the time escaped..
he wanted as much revenge on his brothers as kain, since they throw him in and he ordered it, he killed them and was going for the last one..
also raziel softens by defiance.. his hate lower.. he wasnt really eager at all to kill turel.. he didnt want to fight him at all actually..
i wouldnt say "defiantly something deeper"..
next u seem to speak for yourself P: people react differently then others, some would have wanted to know why (not like raziel cared though, it just seemed to have something deeper going down behind all of it, not that he cared about that either until finding some "facts" in soul reaver 2, or atlist.. having leads on some... like finding janos..
i dont recall the exact words but i do remember saying he had no reason to trust him but saying it did seem like something.. answers.. more to it.. dont remember XP
and i do recall a fact of kain loving umah, or atlist having a desire for her, wouldnt that make him... well.. strait ?.. or is he bie ?
glad someone enjoyed it P: no offense just not liking to write so much so often :E
and grandia well.. u can say abit in ur own words and il look into it, the longest journey is better u find out for yourself, but i finished it, really great game, said to be the best adventure game ever released, also recommended by new york times etc..
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Well even if Raziel did kill Kain in another time, it was not his wish to do so,
because if you remember the Soul Reaver is deranged and Raziel can barely control it.
Also if he lets Kain escape so much, it's obvious he could've killed him multiple times.
And Raziel was nice to Rahab if you remember Soul Reaver 1 correctly.
Plus he did want to fight Turel, but he was shocked that Turel was still alive and controlled by the hylden.
As for Umah, the only reason why people make them a couple is because they want a straight couple in the series.
I don't recall him having any feelings or desires even for that slut.
She could've have ruled with him.
So goes the symbolism he uses as his queen.
But how does this automatically mean he loved her?
The entire game he uses her for information and almost lets her die.
He also says a bunch of negative comments about her in his voice over and is a smart ass to her the entire game.
Last I looked if you love someone you don't kill them for stealing a little stone.
Notice he doesn't even resurrect her, he resurrects Raziel.
And he knows Raziel will come back when he orders him into the abyss. He knew Umah was going to die and stay dead.
Oh well it seems you still discredit all my evidence.
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sorry for being abit blunt maybe.. but.. u just dont get it.. u havent realized it yet.. as this conversation began i said everybody is entitled to his own opinion, im yet to be convinced any i was almost sure i wouldnt be convinced by you considering i have played all the games atlist 3 times and read allot of material and haven't faced any feelings that u have or any of the things u seemed to notice, looking to me like nothing but a thought.. a strong though 
i continued this to hear u out anyway, i gave it a chance, but u just insist on forcing ur opinion on me, and others that disagree.
i think that the 9/11 being a conspiracy that is ran by bush is stupid, ALOT of people think it isnt, they have thier "proofs" (although none of it is complete proof, more of a suspection reason, proof is something u cant argue with, fact, like fingerprints in the place of the crime), some believe it, some dont, but they dont force it on others, however i dont force them to believe otherwise as well, i respect it, and u should respect mine as i respect yours.
now.. grandia ? P:
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when raziel swallows a soul it enters the wheel.. like all of the elders servants..
if it enters the wheel it is to be reborn.. unless u mean by sucking his soul with the soul reaver, well that goes the same as with raziel.. it is raziel after all..
the souls the wraith devourers are sent to the wheel, just power the sword instead of raziel :E
anyhow.. this stuff should be rather obvious.. not realized after.. umm.. how long ? 4 years.
well.. i are permitted to believe differently about the time stream, not that its repeating it self and this time is somewhat different then the others, edge of the coin thing i compared to it, but again, u are free to ur own opinion..
but no offense im tired of this.. it wont lead anymore to anywhere = this is rather pointless already..
did u just name me a dumbass ?|:
but stuff arnt obvious and clear, and we are free at the end to asume what ever we wont since most of it wont be proved, like u said u prefer it to be, just let it go..
so that means all people who are discredited for their believes are right in the end ? no, that still doesnt mean u are right and neither am i.
sigh.. i dont discredit ur beliefs i simply say u can think what ever u want and u can continue thinking it even if others such as i just have something els and their own reason to believe otherwise, again.. just let it go..
and it sounds.. ok.. interesting.. but the longest journey also doesnt sound as good on paper, and neither legacy of kain, in my opinion, grandia and the longest journey seem to begin similar.. i think u might like it though..
il consider looking into it..
after this comment il make a max of 2 more replies, since i wanted solving this along time ago but just letting it go.. but i didnt want to stop commenting just like that in a bastard ish way..
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Oh I just realized that Raziel killing Kain in another time is actually impossible.
I rethought it over a couple of times.
If Raziel had killed Kain in another time then his soul would've been trapped in the wheel when Raziel ate his soul, and Kain wouldn't have been able to repeat time over again.
And if what you're suggesting were true, he wouldn't have the wraith blade, it would just be him.
Remember Raziel would have to have the wraith blade in order get to Kain in the Sarafan Stronghold in the first place.
I actually don't think they repeat time at all.
The time stream is simply being manipulated by the Elder God and Moebius.
If you remember they are the ones who are trying to eliminate both Raziel and Kain from the time stream.
They also wanted Raziel to be trapped in the Sword because he had free will remember?
All the things you see in the Time Streaming chamber are simply what the Elder God and Moebius are trying to shape it to be.
Which is why the journey that Kain and Raziel make begins.
As for forcing my beliefs on someone, that's physically impossible to do.
I see it as this.
Amy Hennig wrote the story and she shouldn't have to explain it to dumb asses.
Everything is already made clear in the story.
You and a few others may discredit my beliefs but so many great people in history were discredited for what they believed in, and then people realized that it was the truth.
Like Albert Einstein for example. And he did was use their common sense, people believed his evidence without any cold hard proof.
For instance he said there is no speed greater than the speed of light.
We don't know that for absolute fact, but we still accept it as thus.
And as for Grandia II....
Grandia II is a story which takes place long after the Battle of Good and Evil.
When The God of Light: Granas, and the God of Darkness Valmar fought a war.
The story starts off with a Young Man named Ryudo, who takes jobs he can find.
One day he is hired as a bodyguard to protect a Songstress of Granas named Elena.
The simple task turns into a great adventure and you meet many other characters along the way.
You eventually uncover the truth about the Battle of Good and Evil.
It's a story that reminds you to not rely on everything else but to rely on yourself and believe in the ones you care about.
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oh yea, and if we are at it,
the first game, the longest journey that came out in 2000, finished it like a month ago.. still great game.. heres a trailer that might spark up some intrigue
[link]
and dreamfall, which is the second game that came out in 2006 and won best story in.. alot.. of.. stuff
i started with dreamfall which is easy to get into, and the ending will just leave u with an open mouth :E its not disappointing just.. u need to see
[link]
and i checked grandia, i couldnt find a triler for grandia 2 so i saw 3, it is animish :< but also in that game atlist, it seems.. soft.. a blond girl is crying and begging some evil dude (which makes an awkwardly stupid laugh P: ) to stop and making a.. cute sad face ? P: also some part just seem funny and light Χ:
il consider reading about it but the trailer and video review didnt really spark much hope in the story line Χ:
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No, the best game from the Grandia series that I'm talking about is Grandia II.
You should be able to find some Grandia II videos on You Tube cause I did.
Also the Grandia series is all Anime style based RPGs.
So if you don't like RPGs...sorry about that
Grandia I looks pretty cool too.
But it's a really old, rare game.
Kinda like how Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 1 is also really rare.
Granida 1 was Only on the Sega Saturn, so it'll be hard to track down.
Grandia III my Best Friend has and he says it was a mediocre game, but we both still agree that Grandia II is the best in the series.
I highly recommend it if you are into Animes and/or RPGs.
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im not into anime.. games.. P: but rpg yes, but as from what i saw its more of a FF rpg no ?
and i have the original omen XP
il still into it, did u see my longest journey/dreamfall trailers ? got intrigued ? :E
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What you don't like Anime? You are weird
Oh and No, Grandia is way better than Final Fantasy series >.<
Much different.
I will go observe The Longest Journey stuff now.
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i dont play ff and dont give fuck about ff Χ:
i just know how the fighting system works and asking if its the same..
u do that !there are demos for both game, though the first game demo isnt that convincing Χ:
get it for very cheap (its worth it) or download, many buy it now after playing dreamfall.. like me
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Final Fantasy is okay, but I just think so many people overrate it and think it's like the greatest thing in the whole world. LOL Don't you think so?
Anyways Grandia 2 is not like that. It's way more awesome storyline and original characters.
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i agree if have heard to much of it P:
its supposedly having the best story ever :E
they are influenced.. i was unwilling to try any other story based games being sure no thing would compare to lok..
and i played dreamfall P:
anyhow, people voted on gamespot, TES: OBLIVION the best story line, well the are really influenced, oblivions story is a total clichΓ© shit, just goes to show ya, the most thinking something doesnt mean they are right.
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I still think nothing compares to LOK. But FF is just shit >.<
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go look at TLJ ! >:Χ
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It's seems kinda weird.
Like a cross between Dreams and life. Future and Past.
Something about how the people look reminds me of The Sims.
In the second game, Dreamfall .
I see more of the enviornment.
The world and cities I saw, reminds me of the towns in Grandia 2. It also has abit of LOK in there too.
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umm ok Χ:
well the first game came at 2000, which is rather old Χ: videos are abit odd but they work for us P:
its not future and past.. and it might sound clichΓ© and wierd, going too a different.. wonder world through dreams, well its defiantly not like that XP
forget about that for now.. you would want to play it anyway after finishing dreamfall :3
although it will feel allot better playing them at the correct order.
so ? Χ:
there is a demo for both games
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Sure it seems like a well developed game.
Have you researched any more Grandia II?
I bought my Sega Dreamcast version first in 2000.
Then the Sony Playstation 2 version on Amazon at Christmas.
Grandia II also first came out in 1999-2000 but first it was for the Sega Dreamcast.
Then they remade it for the Sony Playstation 2 in 2001.
I would recommend the Playstaion 2 version, it has some bugs in it but there is extra cinematics that the Dreamcast version didn't have.
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