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abdalrahman In reply to Liquidmentality [2008-02-21 08:32:53 +0000 UTC]

excuse me, if u know nothing about islam please dont talk about it, i am fet up with people like you talking about islam and its followers when in fact they know nothing more about the subject than what they see on TV.
and for your information, Islam is the fastest growing religion on the world, with all due respect to all other religions.
and as for the "bloody actions of their constrained followers" , first of all u know that most muslims all over the world do not approve of these actions and terrorism in the name of islam is completely unacceptable, and secondly, are u saying that these muslims are the only people in the word ever to do such things, what about the native americans? did the muslims slaughter them to take over their lands? and what about the daily Israeli violations of human right laws and international commitments by killing and arresting many hundreds of innocent palestiniens and teking their land, and these are only too of many many examples...sooo
i think u really have to expand your resources about these matters. and stop using double standerds.
i dont wish to start a debate as this is not the right place to do so, its just a nice cartoon and it has nothing to do with the subject.
but u brought it up.

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Liquidmentality In reply to abdalrahman [2008-02-28 03:15:08 +0000 UTC]

And I'm fed up with people like you thinking everyone is an ignorant American. I'm a student of Anthropology and world religions and have been to Iraq. So I may be an outsider when it comes to the Muslim culture but I've experienced it first hand and am more of an expert on it than most "outsiders".
Fact is that Islam is backwards when it comes to its extremist - and many of its non-extremist views. It does not adapt to meet the needs of modern society and is constraining to it's followers, when you take into consideration, for instance, that the non-extremist western religions don't kill their women for liking the wrong guy.
Fact is that just because many societies have gone through rough times in their histories and have done many reprehensible things, doesn't give Islam the excuse to keep doing the things they're doing.
Fact is many beliefs do have their downside and I wont argue with that, but when you see Muslims (and pretty much only Muslims) chopping peoples heads off, you don't have much of a leg to stand on when debating that side.
Fact is liberal Islamic views stand side by side with any other religion and you should recognize a rant about Muslim extremism when you see it.
Fact is when you post something like that and don't wish for a debate then you shouldn't post anything at all.

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abdalrahman In reply to Liquidmentality [2008-02-28 07:01:55 +0000 UTC]

i didnt say i didnt want to debate...anyway,sorry, its just that im not convinced...
i have to admit that there are extremists, but i gues this is the case in all religions, and not only islam. its not like christians and jews have extremists amongs them. it just so happens that many muslim countries are war zones, which gives any group the "chance" to act according to what they see right. "but when you see Muslims (and pretty much only Muslims) chopping peoples heads off", its a war, and i dont approve of choping the heads off, but still i dont find it much different than what happened in abou ghraib [link]
or guantanamo [link]
or the israeli practice [link]
[link]
[link]
so why do you see only the things done by muslims?
"It does not adapt to meet the needs of modern society and is constraining to it's followers" i would like you to give me some examples if you dont mind, so that i would be able to understand fully what you mean.
so please do deferinciate terror and the ligitimate fight to free a country.
Iraq is occupied by the united states, you have been deceived, told of weapons of mass distruction that are'nt there.
in fact, muslims have long expressed their opinion of refusing many actions done in the name of islam, by groups who claim to be islamics, but in fact they have nothing to do with the teachings of islam.
im not saying that all Americans are ignorent, and just because u are a student of Anthropology and world religions, doesnt mean that know everything there is to know, all im saying is that maybe u should expand your references, maybe check out the writings of those americans or europiens who said good things about islam, what do u know, they might just have a good point. if you get all your information from just one source is not true knowledge, and one shouldnt use double standerds judging peoples actions.
the only reason i didnt want to debate this here is that i dont want the artist here to have a debate he didnt start and which has nothing to do with the artwork.
and finally i would like to point out that just because different opinions, doesnt mean we're fighting, on the contrary, this is a good debate because its important to be open and to discuss the different things we believe in, as long as we try to be rational and objective.

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Liquidmentality In reply to abdalrahman [2008-03-11 01:26:32 +0000 UTC]

I'll debate your points one by one.

Afghanistan and Iraq are the only country with violent outbreaks due to foreign occupation. I don't know of any other "war zones" as you call it, aside from the Israel/Palestine conflict and that's not something I want to go into, because both sides are horribly mishandling the issue and I can't reasonably argue for either side.
So, what are these many war zones you speak of? There are dozens of Islamic countries that are guided by Sharia law and the two above are the only ones I can think of.

I don't find the incidents of Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo to be anywhere near the action of taking a life. Perhaps you can equate humiliation and torture to death, but I cannot. The people behind the incidents in Abu Ghraib were rightly punished for their acts. I can safely say the majority of western civilization, including myself, decries the acts of humiliation and torture.

If you want examples of why it's so constraining, all I need is to bring up the horrid treatment of females in those societies. Even Muhammed said he hoped for the day when females could go out and travel on their own. Yet here we are today and women in many Islamic countries aren't allowed to drive, speak freely, go unaccompanied without men, mutilated by female circumcision, and even subjecting to "Honor killings" by their own families.
I can only hope the Turkish efforts to reanalyze the Hadith can usher in a new era of stability to Islam.

There is no legitimate fight to free a country unless the majority of the population is behind the revolution. I don't see a majority fighting against the Iraqi government. I don't see a majority fighting against the Afghani government. All I see are several different groups of people, including groups that aren't even citizens of the country they fight in, killing for what they want. That's terror. Not freedom.

Yes, I know we were deceived. I've heard this over and over from so many wide-eyed Muslims (and even non-Muslims) shouting like we still don't know what's going on. There were no WMD's. We know.
That's not why the U.S. invaded.
There were actually five main reasons and weapons weren't one of them.

You keep going on about how you think I'm against Islam. You make assumptions that I get my information from one source. I've made it pretty clear that I'm only against extremists justifying their cause in the guise of divine will. In fact, I've read several positive references about Islam.
Using rhetoric and filler doesn't make a good debate.
If you want further responses from me, make sure to use proper grammar, because reading your post makes me feel like I'm wasting my time.

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justflyakite In reply to Liquidmentality [2007-07-18 21:36:53 +0000 UTC]

upside down exclamation mark. like in spanich

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