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Kep-Trefler In reply to kamiiyu [2015-01-01 20:45:34 +0000 UTC]

I can't say that I am unhappy that the image stuck with you. It is sad though! Incredibly so. I didn't have this conversation in-game with Anders, since it's a rivalry romance conversation but still, when I watched it the only thing I could think of, and this was my second play-through was that I did forgive him for failing. And yes, it does say a lot that even a cute kitty can't make it all any better. Thanks for leaving a comment! 

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kamiiyu In reply to Kep-Trefler [2015-01-05 22:06:46 +0000 UTC]

After playing through with him on friendship, I did a rivalry just to see how it went, and it was painful. It hurt to hurt him, to keep going against him, and then to have him lose control to Justice/Vengeance and apologize for it. And then if you do that scene, you get a different line at the end after he blows up the Chantry, which I've found hard to find on youtube. 

Anders: "There isn't anything you can say that I haven't already said to myself. Vengeance... took me over. I couldn't stop him. Justice once told me that demons are just spirits perverted by their desires. I made my friend a demon. And he did this. Kill me now before there is nothing left of me."
Hawke: "I know you would have changed it if you could." 
Anders: "But I have proven I cannot. If I couldn't control Vengeance now, I never will. I need to die."

bleh. So depressing.
But thank you for this art. Even though it's sad, I still love it.

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Kep-Trefler In reply to kamiiyu [2015-01-05 22:54:52 +0000 UTC]

He keeps breaking my heart over and over again

I think what he says there is true. Unfortunately his failing is not just on him. He had half a dozen well educated friends and a lover who'd lived with magical people their whole life watching him. It was clear a very long time ago that he couldn't control Justice/Vengeance...But no one ever did anything about it, they just kind of let him keep going as is, and then he did that and ruined everything.

The actual act was his fault alone but no one can say they didn't see it happening.

I don't know why though he can't admit it, that he's lost contoll, when Hawke is supportive in the friendship romance. 

 

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kamiiyu In reply to Kep-Trefler [2015-01-06 00:18:04 +0000 UTC]

In the friendship one, I can't remember if it's through romance or just friend, but after dissent when he's setting milk out, he mentions that he knows Hawke won't let him lose himself to Vengeance again... And because Hawke keeps encouraging him, he doesn't see it. He doesn't lose himself like he does when he starts thinking differently than Vengeance and instead I think they become more and more as one mind, where there really is just one thought process by the end. 

I really wish there was an option to stop him, to have Hawke go, "Hey wait a minute, this isn't going well..." I mean, after Dissent, it should have been glaringly obvious even to the supportive Hawke that he couldn't control it. 
The mess that happened in Kirkwall was the fault of so many people... No one person can hold the blame, and the fact that Varric feels like it's all Anders' fault in Inquisition makes me upset. Meredith had already called for the Right of Annulment, which she probably wouldn't have done had she not been corrupted by the idol Hawke and Varric had found in the first place. (who knows, though, since she was a bit of a tyrant even before that)

The Grand Cleric knew what was going on and still supported the Templars, supported their abuses. The more I play, the more I see how cold she was. The way she reacted to Mother Petrice's actions and her brains getting splattered across the floor... She claimed neutrality, but if that were the case, she should have been working towards a middle ground, not letting everyone run amok. 

Orsino is a problem because he assisted a necromancer, the maleficar who killed Hawke's mother. The amount of mages who turned to blood magic... 

Well, the Enigma of Kirkwall talks about that, how Kirkwall is the worst place for mages ever. They have the highest rate of blood magic and abominations, the lowest rate of successful harrowings, the highest rate of abusive Templars and the highest rates of the Rite of Tranquility being used... No Circle should ever have been put there.

There are no innocents in Kirkwall...
And all this isn't even taking into account the fact that the Libertarians were trying to break free of the Circle even back in 9:31. The mage rebellion was even apparent in the mage origin and all throughout DA. Anders just lit the candle on the cake everyone else had built. He was the scapegoat, the sacrifice. 

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Kep-Trefler In reply to kamiiyu [2015-01-06 03:43:09 +0000 UTC]

Very insightful... I never realized that by supporting Anders without question, Hawke had accidentally pushed him towards him losing himself to Vengence. 

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kamiiyu In reply to Kep-Trefler [2015-01-06 18:25:48 +0000 UTC]

I admit I've been a bit obsessed with these games, studying them and all the different options, and it's amazing how in depth it gets, despite being able to beat DA2 in around 30 hours. There are so many things to consider!
I saw a debate on which way was better, to push Anders into the arms of Vengeance, or to separate them... to let them live, or to kill them... it's strangely very complicated and complex

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