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StoneKeeper In reply to sykosan [2010-07-30 16:45:08 +0000 UTC]

+1!

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Toiim In reply to sykosan [2010-06-23 06:38:11 +0000 UTC]

haha, up yourself much? Total intolerence to others religons.

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sykosan In reply to Toiim [2010-06-23 10:04:01 +0000 UTC]

Not quite. You see, it's usually religious people who tend to be intolerant regarding other religions. I do tolerate religions indeed. It just saddens me to see so many people falling into the religious trap. But hey, being born in a religion makes it hard to escape.

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Toiim In reply to sykosan [2010-06-23 22:50:12 +0000 UTC]

You're right on one level. But I think you are too closed off to the idea of a God. I'm a christian, but I always question what I belive. I think only an idiot would just accept what he was told without looking at other ideas. I love reading philosophy books and hearing others opinions. I don't mock those opinions, but I'm pretty sure I've found truth. I'm in on heaven, and I'd love to have as many people there with me. If you want to argue on a scientific level on christianity/God then here is a good site: [link]

As for the philosophy side, read Romans in the Bible. The only thing I'd suggest to you is not to think "I'm right, and that's it," which is what many religious people do, and it's not healthy.

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sykosan In reply to Toiim [2010-06-24 05:08:29 +0000 UTC]

Cool, it sounds like you have a healthy approach of religion, keep at it. I was born Christian too and found the way out Cheers.

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Toiim In reply to sykosan [2010-06-24 09:59:07 +0000 UTC]

Born Christian? I wasn't born christian, no one is 'born' anything. I was raised in a christian household and after 14 years of thinking about it, I accepted Jesus. If your parents tried to ram religon down your throat I'm sorry, but perhaps the 'way out' was actually the 'way in' and you were just going the wrong way.

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sykosan In reply to Toiim [2010-06-24 10:43:10 +0000 UTC]

Haha ^_^ Good rhetoric, you're definitely not the average believer. My parents were cool. I’m just like you in a way, except that my conclusions were different and I chose a naturalistic world view over blind faith or any type of superstition.

You seem to value reason and critical thinking, that’s a rare value in religious people, particularly when it comes to their own faith. So you make me curious as what made you chose the Christian faith amongst all the fairytales.

Also you look for reassurance in websites such as the one you linked to and also you say things like "I’m pretty sure I found the truth". This makes me think you’re not quite there yet and you don’t quite believe fully.

I encourage you to continue exploring the scientific world of evidence. The website you mentioned is very shallow when it comes to science, do you have any real scientific education ? You may have a good mind for science and it can help you think clearly in your quest for the truth but you might need to find a better source of unbiased data ^_^

Good luck.

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Toiim In reply to sykosan [2010-06-25 12:09:50 +0000 UTC]

Just to let you know, I'm 15, and don't have any qualifications in the realm of science or any other field. Having said that I LOVE science.
As for the website I suggested, I'm not sure which articles you read but the few I've read were quite scientific, although most are mixed in with philosophy. There are some great christian scientists nowadays and many of the great scientists like Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Galileo Galilei, and Nicholas Copernicus all belived in God.

As for the fairytales, I'll explain in a simple analogy why I belive in God.

Imagine there is a candle. A little boy wants to touch the candle, but his father advises him not to as it will burn his hand. The father leaves the room and as the fire from the candle flickers the childs curiosity takes control and he reaches out, touches the candle, and burns his hand. He cries out in pain. Then two scientists walk into the room. One belives that fire burns and the other doesn't.

The scientists debate infront of the boy who is rather confused, he knows that his hand was burnt when he touched the fire and doesn't understand why the other scientists could possibly belive that fire doesn't burn.

That's basically what's happend to me. I've touched fire.

Science is biased, by the way. All scientists are biased and all evidence is interperited in different ways. I'm yet to find an athiest site that gives evidence for creation and visa versa. I found another website directly aimed at athiests, although it uses tacky HTML (*vomit*)

[link]

And for a completely one on one debate discussing evolution and creation, I advise you to watch a great debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox.

[link]

I don't think this is a matter of Religon vs. Science, instead I think it's science vs. science, and a clash of world views. I'll pray for you

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MLeth In reply to Toiim [2010-08-04 11:29:29 +0000 UTC]

Just had to drop in and say that the story about the boy burning his hand was a great metaphor ^^ And that your strong belief at such a young age is inspiring, really!

I'm a christian myself but I just don't dare arguing against persons like *sykosan .. Since I know my arguments will never get through to them, which makes me a weak christian I suppose xD

Anyway, God bless you ^^

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Toiim In reply to MLeth [2010-08-05 07:57:27 +0000 UTC]

weak christian? Or just inexperienced.

I have a lot of practice in this particular field and love science so it all comes pretty naturally.

Skyosan seems pretty closed off to new information though, so it's not exactly worht arguing, sometimes you just have to let God do the rest.

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sykosan In reply to Toiim [2010-06-25 15:12:32 +0000 UTC]

So it seems from your story that you had some sort of epiphany or revelation. Good for you I guess.

You're young indeed and I believe that when you know more about science you will also find that the science you saw in that website is bogus. Unfortunately we too often see religious advocates take science and twist it to suit their views. They use the same tricks, with clever looking people with big smiles talking nonsense about science. Christianism and other religions alike. That’s why it’s important to know science so that you will see when people talk crap to you, but most importantly you will see things for what they are.

Just try and read any decent scientific review popularizing science.
[link]
I’m sure you’ll find something at your local newsagent.

About the scientists believing in God. It’s the argument from authority and it’s a poor argument really. [link]
Make your own mind

Finally, it’s not because scientists can’t disprove the existence of god that god exists. And also it’s not because scientists don’t have an answer for everything that the religious answer is therefore more truthful. These are also two false arguments that will fall flat in any serious debate.

I salute your effort and quest for answers. Make sure to be critical of anything you hear from anyone ^_^

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