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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-01-29 07:42:45 +0000 UTC]

Of course, but Amber was only going to bring it up as a way to prove who she is.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-01-29 08:31:36 +0000 UTC]

Wait... she is fine with that? Like, she does not mind Mewtwo murdering her dad?

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-01-31 08:07:26 +0000 UTC]

She's dead though lol. She'd be sad about it, especially since in the CD drama it's implied she's saddened by what her father was doing, but I seriously doubt she'd ever blame Mewtwo for his actions. When you think about it, Mewtwo doesn't appear to have been aware he killed when he flew into a rage (and being basically a newborn, he didn't know about ethics and morality), and it was never brought up in canon about if he ever recognized what he did.

The way I see it, Amber in death, even as a child, knows of both her father's intentions and Mewtwo's understandable confusion about his creation. Dr. Fuji pretty much went insane over the original Amber's death, so him being dead is a sweet release from his heartbreak (even though there may be some people who'll interpret it as karma for playing God). So in a way, she doesn't mind just as long as Mewtwo doesn't waste the life he was given to make up for it. If that makes sense.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-01-31 16:41:44 +0000 UTC]

But is she still fine with him murdering a dozen or so of people in cold blood, some of whom might've had families and only worked there to make a living wage?

>When you think about it, Mewtwo doesn't appear to have been aware he killed when he flew into a rage

Given, how purposefully he aims and performs his attacks, he is very much aware of that and does not regret it at any point any bit.

P.S. The whole first Mewtwo situation reminds me of this ProZD video.

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-01-31 19:17:54 +0000 UTC]

(Lol that's a great ProZD vid.)

Amber didn't know the other scientists, and it's not like she's judging Mewtwo's life. Loss of life so suddenly is tragic, of course, but honestly, the phrase "has science gone too far" applies to Mewtwo's creation to the point where the scientists apparently didn't take into account that they needed to treat their creation with respect or else it would lash out. Not that they deserved to die, but they were being stupid (whether from lack of sleep frying their brains or just plain arrogance) and it caused their deaths.

Didn't look like he was really aiming at people, though, despite what the camera angles show. Point is he didn't reflect on it after the attack, nor at any point in canon, so whatever his thoughts are on the circumstances of his creation is something only fans have filled in. The more he learns about the world, the more he comes to understand the intricate details. Whether-or-not he comes to regret taking away lives is up to him, but Mewtwo literally had the mind of a child when he was born. Cognitively he's still developing, hence why he's so curious and wishes to learn about the workings of the world and to know where he fits in. He didn't know/understand about the concept of life and death, let alone what murder was when he couldn't even understand his birth at the same time, so while we may ethically define it as manslaughter, that doesn't morally make him a sinful murderer.

If Mewtwo ever were to kill long after, while it would ethically depend on the reasons behind his actions, by then he's aware of the concept of life and death. The deaths of his creators can haunt him simply for the fact he would become aware he had done it before he understood his actions, but Amber would make it known that she wouldn't blame him for that whatsoever.

Point is, Mewtwo was never a bad guy in the traditional sense of villainy. He was just confused and was taken advantage of by Giovanni (the real villain) who attempted to warp his impressionable mind. That's a trauma Mewtwo will have to deal with on top of the psychological trauma of witnessing Amber dying and being unable to process his emotions.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-01-31 22:24:21 +0000 UTC]

> Point is, Mewtwo was never a bad guy in the traditional sense of villainy.
Even when he is ready to kill trainers and make the Pokemon kill eachother? And I'm not even talking about dub here...

I think I'm mostly looking from the in-universe perspective here, but if I've had to chose, which Mewtwo will I meet, I'd go all-out for the Mewtwo from Movie 16 - she isn't such a powder keg, has more grounding in reality and isn't too likely to turn your bones into baking soda, should you anger her.

P.S. In one fanfic I'm writing (with lots of atompunk and space exploration), at one point, Mewtwo gets onboard the scientific space station and commits a massacre here (though he mostly got here to question one human, then decided to vent the resulting hatred on him and others around). On the outside, in the prototype of Polaris-class tactical interplanetary warship, there are two guys, who don't want to die and have a control over the ship, which, even if lacking in the normal weapons department, has a nuclear salt-water drive - a monster, whose thrust power is measured in terawatts and who has a potential to accelerate ship at 1g for days. And those two guys are really desperate to save their lives. I think you can guess, what happens, when Mewtwo gets in the crosshair of the rear view camera and still does not know, what this drive is capable of.

P.P.S. Oh, and also - Amber gets finally revived on the space colony some time after (by the brother of her dad, who wanted to make sure, that Dr. Fuji's efforts won't go to waste)... and she sees the recordings of Mewtwo's actions. All of them. Yes, even the one with the death of her father. Yes, the space station massacre too. And Lily Black, the director of the lab, when Amber was resurrected, is absolutely delighted at Mewtwo's demise in the jet of atomic flame. Is it any surprise, that Amber tries to airlock herself shortly after?

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-02-01 05:13:10 +0000 UTC]

The only one he sought after for their blood was Mew, but that was just a way to prove himself that he is stronger because he has quite the inferiority complex. He also needed to prove that clones can be just like the other Pokémon, but also stronger. He was scaling things up the further he went along to the point it came to a head with letting the Pokémon fight a literal death battle. Had Ash not intervened, he could've doubled down on it more in a fit of rage or something. But mind you, he was letting confusion get the better of him, and Giovanni's influences were present in his decisions, albeit subconsciously. Once everything calmed down and he got to see the other side of humanity, he decided to take a step back and ponder his existence in a more quiet, secluded fashion. Him still erasing everyone's memories is pretty dickish of him to do, but all he was thinking about was "I need to protect my identity."

Except She-two is sacrilege to the Mewtwo mythos and also "Hurr durr females are more docile than males, she needs magical girl power up to stand a chance". :^)
Mewtwo's bloodlust in the games is a result of fucked up genetics and it's caused him to be aggressive. Mewtwo kind of has that in the anime, but it's limited towards wanting to beat the shit out of Mew to prove his worth. Perhaps if he had succeeded, that would've been tapped in more and he'd show how much of a legitimate threat he is, but that's in some alternate universe we're never going to get (perhaps, maybe Evolution will surprise us). Otherwise, the Mewtwo we got is one who values philosophy and solitude over fighting. He observes, not challenges. He wishes for peace, not total destruction. Something would have to be more terrible than Giovanni and treating life like a plaything in order to set him off again, I would assume.

I figured you were going to tap into the world of fan fiction hence the poking and prodding about this hypothetical idea I have that may not even see the light of day. I think the idea of a more aggressive, bloodthirsty Mewtwo is not completely out of the equation when it comes to his character, but Mewtwo rarely showed malicious behavior in canon, least not willingly (you could say he willingly obeyed Giovanni's orders to do so, but he questioned it the entire time and was just going along with it believing what he was told). I feel like due to his origins, Mewtwo was going to be a tragic villain no matter the outcome whether that's him continuing on his warpath to eventual destruction or what.

Atompunk and space exploration sounds like a cool idea for a Pokémon fic. I think as long as you properly covey the characters' motivations, it shouldn't matter how Mewtwo's portrayed. Now how old would Amber be when she's revived? It was never really explained how long Fuji wanted to have his clone daughter grow before she would be "born", just that within four years the body died regardless of what they did. I don't believe we were ever given an age for when the original Amber died, though I think she had to have been no older than eight.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-02-01 23:17:58 +0000 UTC]

>Except She-two is sacrilege to the Mewtwo mythos and also "Hurr durr females are more docile than males, she needs magical girl power up to stand a chance". :^) 
Needing powerup makes sense, though. She never received actual training like the first one did, so, it comes at no surprise, that she is much weaker than him overall. And her being more docile is pretty reasonable too - after all, instead of growing up under the tutelage of the leader of criminal syndicate, who would've groomed her into a living weapon, she lived with wild Pokemon and, as a result, never got reasons to become as bitter towards humanity as her predecessor was. A few differences in the beginning of their lives - and vastly different personalities.

Besides, making her wouldn't have been as hard as most people imagine. Getting the docs about Mewtwo Project is a matter of having access to non-biological data storages (so, hacking, bribing and sending moles will work just fine - at least before Mewtwo #1 blew up the lab), getting genetic material from Mew is a matter of visiting the Tree of Beginning (also, Mew from it is much less aggressive, than the one in the first movie, and doesn't appear to be as judgemental - may it be one of the reasons for the mellower personality of the Newtwo?) near Rota and, after you set up the equipment, you are good to go.

Also, at one point, Amber meets Newtwo and gets flashbacks to the actions of the previous specimen, which results in her having another episode again. Given, that, not too long before that, her mother cast her out and called her an abomination of science... I think you see, where it goes.

>I figured you were going to tap into the world of fan fiction hence the poking and prodding about this hypothetical idea I have that may not even see the light of day.
I guess spending a lot of time on site, which has a whole section for requests, leaves some marks. I've written a few requests and made a fic on request myself, so, I guess, it shows.

Also, I think I'm looking at it from the in-universe perspective - as one of the characters would've looked.

>I think as long as you properly covey the characters' motivations, it shouldn't matter how Mewtwo's portrayed.
Well, to make that moment more clear, basically, after getting the info he wanted, Mewtwo had another tantrum, and when he has tantrums - people tend to die horrible, bloody deaths (remember, how kids sometimes pluck bugs apart? This, but with humans on the receiving end). The only survivors are those, who were in the ship with arcanotech-enhanced radiation protection (which, as a side effect, also blocks telepathy), which has allowed them to perform their plan and teach Mewtwo the Kzinti Lesson ("A reaction drive's efficiency as a weapon is in direct proportion to its efficiency as a drive." And the nuclear salt-water rocket is pretty damn efficient as a drive) - the last lesson in his life. Yeah, he may've had a redemption arc or something like this later - but, unfortunately, those two characters are unaware of what happens on the other side of the fourth wall and are trying their best to save their lives.

>Now how old would Amber be when she's revived?
I think of setting her age at nine-to-ten years. To solve the problem with additional years during the early cloning attempts, I think I'll wave it off as her being in deep coma most of the time, with awakenings being a rare occassion, making them add a year to her mental age at most.

In the meanwhile, her mother, even after learning about successful resurrection, decides, that the only true Amber is the one from her memories, and this one is a biological simulacrum, an abomination, and she can't let it defy the memories of her dear daughter.

Yeah, Amber's first visit to Earth does not go good...

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-02-02 03:15:01 +0000 UTC]

She-two was still a bitch to Ash and the others, though. So nah, she don't like humans either.
Fair enough about her living with Pokémon and not training, but… if the Pokémon Mew is one of the strongest around, She-two would have inherited that same power--and supposedly she did because of how she was pushing herself to go past her limits by… flying into space. Mewtwo showed he had immense psychic powers even as a baby. Him training helped, of course, but it was to control it, which suggests to me that if Mewtwo didn't get that training when he did, he would've gone out of control. But She-two being tortured in that tube apparently was all she needed or something.
I actually wanted to like her, but she is not a good character and is a plot-hole carrying around a plot-hole (Mega Evolution). If information about the Mewtwo Project had gotten out, Giovanni would've known because he was the one funding it, and he would've seen to it that the perpetrators would get punished. Mewtwo would've also been hunted down. Even so, even if they had the notes and knew how to replicate the procedure, She-two shouldn't have looked exactly like the original Mewtwo. It's honestly pretty sad when I've read fics that did things a little differently to make a female Mewtwo while still making it clear she has differences in her physique outside of a feminine voice. Also, motivation is key--what was the motivation behind this unknown group of scientists (presumably Plasma?) making a clone of Mew? We weren't given any. We don't know either if that's the Mew from the Tree of Beginning whose DNA was used. At least with Mewtwo's origins, we were told specifically they found a fossilized eyelash (which is pretty funny lol) in some South American ruin. It wasn't clear if it was a shed eyelash from the first movie Mew, but I'm going to assume it was a different Mew altogether despite the legend of Mew living forever.
So yeaaaah, that movie's still a sore spot. Actually was made worse when I learned the news that they had aired the first movie and Mewtwo Returns on TV for the purpose of getting the younger children familiar with Mewtwo only to then pull the rug out from under their feet with the trailer. Like that was a load of bullshit that they did that, and it's really no surprise the movie's the second-lowest grossing Pokémon movie to date.

"I've written a few requests and made a fic on request myself, so, I guess, it shows."
Oh yeah? Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever seen your work, and I check FanFiction.net every day. You don't have any writing in your DA gallery, so it sounds like you post off-site someplace I don't go to, probably.

I take it it was upsetting enough to cause Mewtwo to rage, but it doesn't seem like one who has a grasp of technology (and being up in space, he had to have found his way inside, after all) would go so berserk he'd end up killing himself in the process. Even if he didn't know about the nuclear core, he'd know that being out in space isn't grounds for destroying everything without a proper escape route. I dunno, Mewtwo's fatal flaw has to be smarter than him.

Sounds good with Amber. It's not common to hear about her mother in fics any time Amber's in the picture, so sounds reasonable enough the mother would act like that.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-02-02 09:52:54 +0000 UTC]

>She-two was still a bitch to Ash and the others, though. So nah, she don't like humans either. 
Well, the experimentation and Pokemon Hunters were still a thing in her life, after all. But she dislikes human much less, than the previous one. Instead of wiping out memories, despite still havin access to telepathy, she prefers just to tell to screw off.

>But She-two being tortured in that tube apparently was all she needed or something.
We don't know about previous experimentation on her, though. We also don't know about her life with wild Pokemon. She may've taught herself during those years, which'll be still a far cry from the actual professional training (and, as we saw in the movie, no matter the exact way it happened, she still was less skilled and less powerful, than her predecessor).

>If information about the Mewtwo Project had gotten out, Giovanni would've known because he was the one funding it, and he would've seen to it that the perpetrators would get punished.
Unless the perpetrators die and the evidence gets destroyed during the first New Island incident.

>Mewtwo would've also been hunted down.
And this has happened. Though it's more likely, that the Hunter we know about was hired by the surviving scientists, which have created her.

>Even so, even if they had the notes and knew how to replicate the procedure, She-two shouldn't have looked exactly like the original Mewtwo.
She doesn't - the first one didn't have this horn-like structure (slightly similar to one of the Gardevoir) in the middle of his chest. A tiny difference, but it does exist.

>I've read fics that did things a little differently to make a female Mewtwo while still making it clear she has differences in her physique outside of a feminine voice.
There's even a fan-made picture of the offspring, which uses this chest-horn thing as a gender dimorphism trait - 

>but I'm going to assume it was a different Mew altogether despite the legend of Mew living forever.
Well, maybe, Mew can't die of old age and most diseases, but there are other things, which can still kill them? Some especially damaging diseases, getting hit hard enough internal organs get damaged beyond repair and like this?

>Oh yeah? Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever seen your work, and I check FanFiction.net every day.
My FF.net account only has an outdated and frozen Pokemon/Robocraft crossover fic, while my current fic ( "Past of the future, future of the past...") is being posted on Serebii (and I still have a decent time to go before the Mewtwo and Amber appear in the story). The site with request section is a russian Ficbook.net.

>Even if he didn't know about the nuclear core, he'd know that being out in space isn't grounds for destroying everything without a proper escape route.
He had a proper escape route - a long-range Teleport. Also, since the Polaris had two types of nuclear drives - a single nuclear salt-water rocket and two much less crazy and less powerful nuclear lightbulbs - Mewtwo had expected, that ship will use the lightbulbs to clear the station, since the NSWR is disabled due to range safety, and his shields (which also allow him to perform EVA without space suit or space pod) can take superhot gaseous hydrogen from nuclear lightbulbs with no problems. What he didn't know is that one of two survivors (which he didn't know about right until he exited the station and saw the ship turning around) aboard the Polaris had an access to the override codes, which have allowed him to enter the test mode and activate the nuclear salt-water engine despite the safety lock.

>sounds reasonable enough the mother would act like that.
Well, yeah. Do you remember her letter to Dr. Fuji? About how she won't hold onto the memories? Well, that's exactly what happens - memories of her daughter became more important to her, than her actual daughter, and she won't let anyone ruin this "happiness". Amber having psychic abilities (which she also had before her first death, but they didn't have time to manifest) does not help.

However, despite all the hardships, Amber still gets a decent ending to her arc some time after, becoming adopted by the family of the commander of the "Core-Middleway" space colony. By the way, the space colony in question is a 1800 meter version of the Bernal Sphere , which can house up to more than 10,000 people, so, Amber is unlikely to get alone any time soon.

Also, a few days ago, I've realized, that I've, accidentally, made even more symbolism come real, when I've decided to put Amber on the space colony.

In the "Birth of Mewtwo", she mentions, that she'll likely become a star.

In my fic, resurrected Amber lives on a space colony, set in the Lagrangian Point L5.

This colony, should it be observed from the Earth without sufficiently powerful telescope, would appear as an another star in the night sky.

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-02-02 21:13:23 +0000 UTC]

"Forget about me" is less effective than actually turning back the clock. Therefore Mewtwo > She-two. :^)

Pretty sure she was only out of the lab for weeks at the most by the time the movie happened. The anime has a very weak grasp on the duration of time ever since the Orange Islands, but she was born not that long ago at the start of the film. Again, poor writing because we don't have a sense of time. At least in the first film with Mewtwo, we got a sense of time passing. We don't know how long he was with Giovanni, but he had Mewtwo for a time before the hideout was blown up around the same day Ash won the Earth Badge (and it was about three months before the Indigo League started, and Mewtwo spent about a month putting his plan to work--he's quite the determinator and is a quick learner).

"Unless the perpetrators die and the evidence gets destroyed during the first New Island incident."
And that is exactly why these nobody scientists couldn't have cloned a second Mewtwo.
"And this has happened."
That happened to She-two, I was referring to Mewtwo himself being hunted down had the scientific notes been smuggled out.

Mewtwo in FireRed/LeafGreen, 2004:
cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/7/7…
Honestly is a pretty stupid choice of "sexual dimorphism" in using an upgraded art-style. Changing the breastplate is a common example of sexual dimorphism in Mewtwo fan fiction and I'm all for it (even if it's just to emphasize the female Mewtwo having breasts due to the human-like anatomy), but adding a smaller horn in the crease is honestly dumb. Cute pic, though.

Anything could kill a Mew, sure, but I would assume old age would still be a possibility. But that's the problem with mythical Pokémon--you know jack about them, and they end up out-living you anyway. I'm actually considering the Mew from the first episode of the CD drama Miyamoto was chasing after to be a different Mew from the first film and the one at Tree of Beginning (and the one from PokéPark if we want to go that route lol) if only because of the vocals. Really is too bad we don't have more information about the Mew species, I remember years ago a friend made up something about why the Mew species is so rare because some jealous(?) trainer managed to catch a colony of Mew and threw the PokéBalls into a volcano, but one had escaped because it was sleeping underwater elsewhere.

OH, Serebii! I recognize the title, I've seen the updates. I hardly touch the Fan Fiction section much anymore, though xD, mostly just go into Author's Café if I ever check out that section. You might've seen me there, not that hard to spot me. ;D (Least now I got a good idea of how you found me lol.)
Ah, Russian. Got'cha.

Sooooo wait… either he got caught in the explosion while out in the vacuum of space with the ship, or the ship pulled a suicide move in attempt to kill him?

That's not the first time I've seen a fic let Amber have psychic abilities. Granted, the one fic I'm thinking of is a total AU and Amber was named "Aiko", but it was an important plot-point for her to be a psychic empath. Honestly, I think this is a fan-theory that needs to be explored more since it was never really explained how it was Ambertwo could make contact with Mewtwo so easily.
Happy accidents are the best. Was quite aware of Fuji telling her he didn't care if she became Halley's Comet, but yeah, a lot of people forget about her saying she'll become a star. So that's pretty neat.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-02-02 21:43:30 +0000 UTC]

>"Forget about me" is less effective than actually turning back the clock. Therefore Mewtwo > She-two. :^)
We aren't sure, if he really performed reset, or if he just cleverly changed the memories of everyone involved while keeping the storm going to make it appear, that they didn't go anywhere and nothing happened.

>Pretty sure she was only out of the lab for weeks at the most by the time the movie happened.
Given her bonding to the wild Pokemon, I think it was longer, than a few weeks. But yeah, anime sure does have problems with how the time passes.

>And that is exactly why these nobody scientists couldn't have cloned a second Mewtwo.
Why? If they have a full documentation smuggled to them, and everyone in the Team Rocket or linked to it, who knew about this espionage operation, is now dead... why not?

>That happened to She-two, I was referring to Mewtwo himself being hunted down had the scientific notes been smuggled out. 
Again, if everybody is dead and the lab is ruined after the docs were smuggled out and delivered to the clients, no one is gonna notice. A perfect, if accidental, cover-up.

>but adding a smaller horn in the crease is honestly dumb. Cute pic, though.
Well, it still happened. And (conspiracy theorist mode on) how can we be sure, that the Mewtwo from the newer games are biologically closer to the anime Mewtwo #1 and not the Newtwo? Maybe, scientists, ater witnessing the flow of events in the other branch of franchise, decided to do what unovan scientists did, but failed to get a more mellow personality in their creations! (conspiracy theorist mode off).

>Really is too bad we don't have more information about the Mew species,
Aw yeah. The same can be also applied to a lot of other Mythicals.

>Least now I got a good idea of how you found me lol
Actually, I've found you through the DA even before I've registered on Serebii.

>Sooooo wait… either he got caught in the explosion while out in the vacuum of space with the ship, or the ship pulled a suicide move in attempt to kill him?
No, the ship has just turned the main drive on, when Mewtwo burst out of the station. The thing is, the nuclear salt-water drive, basically, harnesses a continuous fission explosion for propulsion, which allows it to have both high specific impulse (efficiency) and high thrust (should I even explain?) - at the price of being insanely deadly to everything down the exhaust's path, hence the need for the nuclear lightbulbs in order to be able to clear the station without killing everyone on it and burning a giant hole. And Mewtwo was waaayy too close to the ship, when the drive activated. Here's the link to the excerpt of this event.

>That's not the first time I've seen a fic let Amber have psychic abilities.
I was kinda inspired by one theory on the Tumblr, which was based on how she was able to telepathically speak with clones.

>Granted, the one fic I'm thinking of is a total AU and Amber was named "Aiko", but it was an important plot-point for her to be a psychic empath.
This one?

>Happy accidents are the best. Was quite aware of Fuji telling her he didn't care if she became Halley's Comet, but yeah, a lot of people forget about her saying she'll become a star. So that's pretty neat.

Yeah. And when one of the scientists aboard the colony creates a third Mewtwo (the espionage saga continues) and then it, still not fully developed, nearly gets tossed into industrial solar furnace (normally used for producing ultra-pure materials, but can also serve as a very good biohazard disposal), Amber takes position and starts demanding that she'll take care of that one (the pictures of what the original one has become are burned hard into her mind). Since she's adoptive daughter of the colony's commander, they have to back down and allow this one to finish the development.

A few years later, those two become the most macabre children on the colony, who hijack space tugs, taxis and workpods to fly around, sneak into industrial areas and farming toruses, infiltrate the docked ships - and, since Amber's adoptive father holds such a high position and loves her so much, they manage to get away with that.

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-02-03 00:45:15 +0000 UTC]

Most likely he just erased/blocked memories and time flowed like normal given it was sunrise when the storm dissipated.
"Again, if everybody is dead and the lab is ruined after the docs were smuggled out and delivered to the clients, no one is gonna notice. A perfect, if accidental, cover-up."
One problem: Giovanni. If it was smuggled out without his knowing (somehow, he's quite omnipresent with Team Rocket spies everywhere), they'd still end up learning about Giovanni being involved since his name would be in the documents, and he's not someone to mess around with, seriously. Following the notes to the tittle to create a second Mewtwo would not have gone unnoticed. Giovanni forgot about Mewtwo during Johto, yes, but that doesn't mean the people who may have the smuggled notes know that because they'd be scared shitless to get near the man to check. Even so, Mewtwo may have overlooked the fact that if Giovanni ever goes through his finances, he's going to notice a giant hole in his budget that he's going to want to look into. Honestly am surprised that detail escaped Shudo when he was writing the script.
In the meantime, Mewtwo will know of She-two's existence sooner or later. And that alone would make him cautious/mad because it meant his existence has been compromised. Misunderstandings will arise, but I honestly doubt Mewtwo would be happy about it and he'd have to clean up the mess even if that mess is halfway around the world.

Lmao, well unfortunately, games =/= anime (and manga =/= games), but the animators follow concept art derived from the games. Sooooooo. xD

Another Mythical I'd like to know more about is Jirachi. Like Jirachi sleeping for a thousand years has to be a curse, right?

"It wasn't even a death in traditional sense - the artificial Legendary has just stopped being biology and started being physics."
Lmao so he just becomes one with the cosmos? That's actually scary because then the leftover psychic matter can do some crazy shit as a side-effect of radiation--like a supervillain! XD And now I'm getting an image of a Mewtwo-Deoxy hybrid and it sounds creepy.

I think I may have seen that theory not long ago, but yeah, that's the fic I was talking about. Never thought I'd enjoy it, tbh, it was quite unconventional.

XD That's funny, actually lol. Sounds like a lot of fun. I try not to make promises because I'm terrible at keeping them over the 'Net, but it sounds like you may get yourself a visit in that thread some time down the line. You kinda sealed the deal just for bringing up Mewtwo in the first place, I like reading up on different Mewtwo interpretations.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-02-03 09:53:05 +0000 UTC]

>One problem: Giovanni. If it was smuggled out without his knowing (somehow, he's quite omnipresent with Team Rocket spies everywhere), they'd still end up learning about Giovanni being involved since his name would be in the documents, and he's not someone to mess around with, seriously.
A lot of people can do crazy things, especially if they promise such a great results. Besides, no one forces them to steal original docs - copies will do, satisfying clients without alerting others (as long as they don't get caught).

>In the meantime, Mewtwo will know of She-two's existence sooner or later. And that alone would make him cautious/mad because it meant his existence has been compromised. Misunderstandings will arise, but I honestly doubt Mewtwo would be happy about it and he'd have to clean up the mess even if that mess is halfway around the world.
Who know, who knows. By the way, I really want some more Awakenedshipping (MewtwoxNewtwo) fanfics. Right now, there's a whole one author (Lizzarade) writing them.

>Lmao so he just becomes one with the cosmos? That's actually scary because then the leftover psychic matter can do some crazy shit as a side-effect of radiation--like a supervillain! XD And now I'm getting an image of a Mewtwo-Deoxy hybrid and it sounds creepy.
It's a reference to this xkcd comic, where these words are used to describe, what'll happen to a human, who stands in the way of the Sunbeam (weapon, which concentrates all the light, radiated from the Sun, into a laser-like beam that had a diameter of around 1m once it reaches Earth). It's just that there was no time for Mewtwo to experience what can be compared to the normal biological death, before the jet of nuclear flame turned him to high-energy plasma.

Besides, since he was shown to be capable of restoring himself after flatlining, as long as his brain is still more-or-less working, in the CD drama, it's better to make sure all of his parts cease to function (and be) at once. Ain't no recovery from getting turned into a bunch of unorganized atoms!

>That's funny, actually lol. Sounds like a lot of fun.
It's all fun and games (and waste of fuel), until they almost damage the main mirror array of the space colony via reckless piloting of the work-tug (like this one) and barely manage to avert it at the last second. As you can guess, once both kids are back on the colony, the reprimands from their father and mother are pretty harsh (though without physical punishment), because they've just endangered the entire colony - with damaged mirror array, the power generation would've started to have problems, not to mention the lack of light for the agricultural toruses and habitat sphere.

>but it sounds like you may get yourself a visit in that thread some time down the line.
Thank you.

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-02-04 06:36:11 +0000 UTC]

Even so, Giovanni had made a name for himself as soon as he took over Team Rocket. I don't think even desperate people would dare risk the gamble.

Well don't look at me, I have no plans to write such fics when I'm already about to monopolize MewShipping XD. But good on her for taking up that mantle, since someone's gotta do it. Even though, honestly, it's something that's been done since… well, since Mewtwo got himself fangirls.

Lol welllll there's still the metaphysical plane, or even the spiritual plane that can still be a thing. I can see Mewtwo easily becoming a vengeful revenant because he's that much of a demon in existence. Really, Mewtwo's freaking terrifying in all planes of existence. Even if somehow he had managed to live through it, he'd end up manipulating the powers of radiation even when cancerous.

>waste of fuel
XD Then they need themselves a good paddlin' for that! Of all the times to give them one, that should be it for wasting resources lol. Mean seriously, the kind of shenanigans they get themselves into and all anyone can do is just shake their fist angrily at their backs.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-02-04 07:38:25 +0000 UTC]

>Even so, Giovanni had made a name for himself as soon as he took over Team Rocket. I don't think even desperate people would dare risk the gamble.
You can be surprised, what desperate people with little to no instinst of self-preservation can do. Besides, it's likely that they've hoped to get an operational and loyal Mewtwo before Giovanni finds out about them, but kinda forgot, that Pokemon don't really like being experimented upon. History repeats, I guess, though they've made more progress before the inevitable incident. If the third group decides to repeat it again, they may finally stop making the same mistakes and get a loyal Mewtwo -  third time's the charm, after all (a funny thing - that's pretty much what happens on the space colony, even if this Mewtwo, named "Nyx", does not want to become battle-oriented Pokemon, looking more into working in space instead, and is only truly loyal to Amber).

> Well don't look at me, I have no plans to write such fics when I'm already about to monopolize MewShipping XD. But good on her for taking up that mantle, since someone's gotta do it. Even though, honestly, it's something that's been done since… well, since Mewtwo got himself fangirls.
Maybe. I wonder, though, how Mewtwo and Newtwo will react to eachother upon meeting and upon later talks about their lives.

>Lol welllll there's still the metaphysical plane, or even the spiritual plane that can still be a thing.
I didn't mention it in this fragment, but the nuclear salt-water drive has a support arcanotechnological device (remember the arcane science devices in the Movie 19 and the Ultimate Weapon in the games? Somewhat like this, but more useful and without requiring Pokemon life energy to function, since one of the scientists has created the electroarcanic energy converter, capable of converting energy in both directions), called "arcane fission catalyst", which is used to majorly increase the efficiency of the drive (and, as a result, radiation flux from it, necessitating for heavier shielding of the habitable parts of the ship) by using the same weird physics of the Pokemon world some Pokemon - especially higher-grade Legendaries - use to radically increase fissionability of the materials in its projection focus. A small and normally insignificant side effect of this device is that it tends to majorly interfere with most of other arcane energy signatures nearby. Arcane-enhanced radiation protection can withstand it, but Ghosts and other similar beings will be dissipated very, very fast. As you can guess, when this thing is working mere dozens of meters away from you, spiritual plane is just not something you can hope for now.

>XD Then they need themselves a good paddlin' for that! Of all the times to give them one, that should be it for wasting resources lol. Mean seriously, the kind of shenanigans they get themselves into and all anyone can do is just shake their fist angrily at their backs.

Thankfully, both Sebastian (dad) and Lisbeth (mom) know, how to hurt with words more, than with physical attacks. Even the usual getaway faces of kids, which worked even on the pilots and security, did nothing this time - hijacking workpods or work-tugs and wasting their fuel (aluminum/liquid oxygen , which is manufactured on the Moon from the regolith and delivered here in the containers, launched from the electrodynamic catapult, resulting in it being pretty much literally dirt-cheap) is one thing, endangering the colony itself is a whole another.

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-02-05 06:46:52 +0000 UTC]

Perhaps, but this is honestly information that should've been clarified instead of turning it into a plot-hole. I honestly think that it'd be a lot cheaper to go and see if the subject was still alive instead of risking your livelihood doing something illegal (given that the Mewtwo Project was kept under tight secrecy, it wasn't legal--though it's probably because it involved human cloning or Fuji had lost his credentials or something) which could end up with you getting killed or maimed. Silly scientists.

I feel like Mewtwo wouldn't be very happy because, like I said, it meant his existence has been compromised. I don't see them getting along at first for that very reason. Also, you just never know if the Natural Order wants to step in because the thought of a powerful man-made species breeding could result in something disastrous if left unchecked. It's another one of those things that should've been touched upon in the canon but never did. Mew might've been doing just that before Mewtwo challenged it, but who knows.

Well, Ghost Pokémon are still tangible, meaning they're not existing on a separate plane from the physical plane (though they might be able to enter and exit it without problem). I think ghost ghosts, legit dead people and Pokémon, wouldn't have been touched by the fission unless it tears apart the quantum sea/can enter a different dimension.
[string theory intensifies]

I will continuously stand by my silly image of a young Amber and Mewtwo being bent over the knee with the wooden paddle (passed down for generations) hovering ominously over them.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-02-06 22:24:07 +0000 UTC]

>Perhaps, but this is honestly information that should've been clarified instead of turning it into a plot-hole.
Most definitely.

>I honestly think that it'd be a lot cheaper to go and see if the subject was still alive instead of risking your livelihood doing something illegal
I think second group of scientists didn't really care, if the original one was alive or not - he was out of their reach, but they've had a way of making a new specimen. Won't be surprised, if her ability to Mega Evolve without Stone and bond with trainer is a result of one of their experiments (it certainly is in my headcanons and fic-canon).

By the way, later, the way of Mega Evolving Pokemon without Stones on them and without bonds shows up in the movies again - as a development of the cabinet minister Alva, the Mega Wave technology from Movie 19. Either he participated in her creation or, at least, sponsored this project...

>I feel like Mewtwo wouldn't be very happy because, like I said, it meant his existence has been compromised.
He did compromise it himself earlier, when he let Ash and co. remember their second encounter ("Mewtwo Returns").

>Also, you just never know if the Natural Order wants to step in because the thought of a powerful man-made species breeding could result in something disastrous if left unchecked.
With such a tiny gene pool, they're not gonna make it past a very few generations without some very, very serious inbreeding issues arising, which'll plunge them into extinction. If they still decide to have offspring, at least one of them will have to resort back to gene-modding and artificial womb technology in order to create a stable breeding population. Mew didn't have to worry about that as long as first Mewtwo didn't start making his own copies - and he most definitely did not want to.

By the way, an interesting difference between Mewtwo and Newtwo - while the original one uses Shadow Ball, his unovan counterpart prefers Aura Sphere instead. I guess it suits their personalities - a dark and grim of the original one vs. a more easy-going and motherly of the second one.

>wouldn't have been touched by the fission unless it tears apart the quantum sea
It's not the nuclear fission itself that destroys the arcane energy formations near the drive, it's the arcane fission catalyst - an arcanotechnological device, which boosts fission reaction in its projection focus major time (somewhat like certain Legendaries can locally alter physics, but not as radical). It's used there in order to make the drive more efficient (since the price of zubrol-90 - a 2% water solution of 90% enriched uranium tetrabromide - is huge), but also serves well to prevent Mewtwo from protecting himself from the exhaust (not really necessary, with such a giant thrust power, but helped anyway) or continuing to exist in any form as soon as drive goes online and working at full blast.

>I will continuously stand by my silly image of a young Amber and Mewtwo being bent over the knee with the wooden paddle (passed down for generations) hovering ominously over them.

Whatever you want. However, Sebastian has a way better punishment - nullify their allowance to the docks and local observation domes for a whole month. Since one of their favorite pastimes was watching the ships docking to and undocking from the colony, as well as taking rides on the workpods, work-tugs and proper space tugs... I guess you can imagine, what would they feel, when their dad suddenly takes all of it from them for 31 day straight!

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-02-10 07:13:58 +0000 UTC]

I believe the Mega Evolution was a result of the experiments as well, yeah. It'd at least explain some things, but it still became a plothole as a result of them skimping out on explanations.
I forgot about that in the 19th film--but I forgot a lot of it anyway lol. Guess it says a lot about Mega Evolutions when they found ways to bullshit their way around the Mega Stones.

Mewtwo trusted Ash and co. with his existence, and I believe he made sure they promised to keep it a secret. Which is why Team Rocket deciding to catch who they thought was Mewtwo (and it's definitely implied they knew of Mewtwo like Ash did) for the boss in the movie is so frustratingly stupid and out-of-character.

I head-canon that since he practically has Mew genes, he'd be able to have the capability of breeding with whoever he wanted, but that's only if he finds himself a suitable mate to begin with, if he's even interested lol. I don't mind the kind of breeding method either way, but I definitely can see Mewtwo utilizing artificial wombs for the purpose of creating offspring (whether-or-not he was able to find himself a suitable mate) if he was interested in passing on his genes. Chances are high he's not, though, and I can't say I'd blame him, really.

Oh yeaaaaaah. Probably just sheer coincidence, but that's a good point. Though Mew I think used Aura Sphere in the first film when sending back Mewtwo's Shadow Ball… Either way, Mewtwo's movepool, in that regard, gives him an advantage over Newtwo. Even if he were to ever awaken (HA) Mega Evolution, he'd get Mega Mewtwo X for sure, and I think he'd still kick her butt. (I've read [i]Adventures[/i], I've seen how a Mewtwo vs Deoxys fight goes.)

Doesn't sound like it would tear through several planes of existence, though (not just time and space, otherwise you'd suggest that that blast would allow waves of Unown to go flying out as a result of tearing open dimensions). So Revenant!Mewtwo fucking shit up behind the scenes is the head-canon I'm sticking to.

Lmao I can see the jokes now: "Why can't you kids be normal and get into trouble by playing ball indoors or vandalizing school property?"

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-02-10 08:07:04 +0000 UTC]

>Guess it says a lot about Mega Evolutions when they found ways to bullshit their way around the Mega Stones.
Not bullshit - arcane science their way around the Stones and bonds!

>Mewtwo trusted Ash and co. with his existence, and I believe he made sure they promised to keep it a secret.
And he never accounted for a possibility of some powerful enough psychic reading from their minds?

>I head-canon that since he practically has Mew genes, he'd be able to have the capability of breeding with whoever he wanted, but that's only if he finds himself a suitable mate to begin with, if he's even interested lol.
He lacks Transform, though. I don't think Team Rocket ever accounted for keeping Mewtwo capable of reproduction, since they've mostly cared about the power.

>Though Mew I think used Aura Sphere in the first film when sending back Mewtwo's Shadow Ball
It was Barrier, actually. Modified version, perhaps, but still Barrier.

>Even if he were to ever awaken (HA) Mega Evolution, he'd get Mega Mewtwo X for sure, and I think he'd still kick her butt.
I'm not sure, if they'd even fight, given, that they both are suddenly much less alone now (yeah, Newtwo found others in the wild Pokemon, who took care of her, but having another one of your species is something much more).

>Doesn't sound like it would tear through several planes of existence, though (not just time and space, otherwise you'd suggest that that blast would allow waves of Unown to go flying out as a result of tearing open dimensions).
Well, actually, it will incinerate Unown and brutally destroy the portal, since it ruins any more-or-less organized concentrations of arcane energy, much like high-intensity radiation destroys any biological matter. In short, it'll be like a Chandelure using Mewtwo's soul for fuel, except worse (for Mewtwo).

>So Revenant!Mewtwo fucking shit up behind the scenes is the head-canon I'm sticking to. 
Maybe in your version. In my version, Mewtwo #1 is deader than deader than dead.

>Lmao I can see the jokes now: "Why can't you kids be normal and get into trouble by playing ball indoors or vandalizing school property?"

Well, given, that they're inside the rotating space colony, I can easily see kids from the Earth trying to play ball, but hitting things much more often, because they don't account for the Coriolis effect . Also, I can see Nyx (third Mewtwo, created on the space colony and living with Amber) and Amber, if they decide to do something like this (for instance, during the month of being barred from the docks), cheating by subtly using telekinesis to nudge the ball in whatever direction they want now. By the way, since windows are made from fused silica and borosilicate glass, it'll be kinda hard to break them. Not that it'll stop the ball from wrecking things indoors.

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kokorotoyume In reply to vovan1 [2019-02-17 16:56:51 +0000 UTC]

(Week-late reply, welp.)

Lol that'd be great if the anime was actually that smart.

Perhaps not since he still doesn't (or at least didn't, at the time) realize just how huge the world is, but apparently psychic empaths are rare in the Pokéverse as-is, and Sabrina is apparently not your average psychic. Far as I can tell, Ash hasn't really met a psychic who could (potentially) read minds since Sabrina. Psychic Pokémon are an entirely different scenario.

Like my head-canon, I think Mewtwo potentially is able to tap into his Mew genes and pull out any movepool he wants if he gets the proper training. I don't believe he can ever Transform, but I don't think he'd be completely incompatible. He'd be super picky, though, willingly limiting his choices right off the bat.

Was it Barrier? I know Mew shot it back after getting blasted into the clouds, but I dunno, it kinda looked like a Light Ball to show they got a yin-yang element going on lol. But it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Aura Sphere was taking cues from it, Shadow Ball didn't exist in the games at the time, so it was basically Mewtwo's signature move until Psystrike.

Given Mewtwo's nature, I think he'd like at least one fight to test their powers. Perhaps to see how worthy she is and such, ya know?

So shouldn't there be basically a gaping hole in space afterwards?

Lol I shouldn't laugh because it honestly just sounds like Amber and Nyx wouldn't be able to make friends in the colony and that's why they do such stupid, dangerous stuff for their own amusement, but I dunno, I can see them messing with the others kids for fun. 'Course they'd probably always be accused of cheating (true or not) if they ever played games and kids are easy to anger that way. "Cheating's serious business and cheaters can't be friends, 'cause nobody like a cheater except for me." That kind of thing lol.

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vovan1 In reply to kokorotoyume [2019-02-17 19:02:49 +0000 UTC]

>Lol that'd be great if the anime was actually that smart.
It was said in plain words, by the way, both by Team Rocket Trio and by Princess Kimia.

> Was it Barrier? I know Mew shot it back after getting blasted into the clouds, but I dunno, it kinda looked like a Light Ball to show they got a yin-yang element going on lol. But it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Aura Sphere was taking cues from it, Shadow Ball didn't exist in the games at the time, so it was basically Mewtwo's signature move until Psystrike.
Given, how much modified moves in anime can diverge from their game versions, it comes at no surprise. I wish we were able to use modified versions in the games, though, like the counter-shield.

> Given Mewtwo's nature, I think he'd like at least one fight to test their powers. Perhaps to see how worthy she is and such, ya know?
Maybe, maybe not. Though, if they get to fight, I kinda see it as a JoJo-like fight, which relies on trickery more, than on brute force. In fact, I can see original Mewtwo going for the brute force (like, let us admit, he always did), while Newtwo, being weaker, but also lacking the Giovanni's indoctrination to be mere enforcer, resorts to evasion and trickery.

> So shouldn't there be basically a gaping hole in space afterwards?
No, there shouldn't.

>and that's why they do such stupid, dangerous stuff for their own amusement
Originally, they do it because there are next to no kids on the colony yet (it was still being assembled during the Amber's resurrection and was finally finished during the creation of Nyx. It took a some time to fill up the colony, and Amber, along with Nyx, didn't really want to wait), and then they just continue doing what they've used to do.

>I can see them messing with the others kids for fun.
Of course. Being a bit spoiled (because their dad is commander of the colony and, usually, can help them to avoid repercussions) helps in that, though they're ultimately good-natured.

>Course they'd probably always be accused of cheating (true or not) if they ever played games and kids are easy to anger that way.
Though Amber and Nyx can try playing a card "Wait, so you don't account for the Coriolis effect each time you throw a ball? Wow." It won't work for long, but it'll sure mess with the heads of other kids!

Though, ultimately, they do get a friend - Ash Ketchum, who, unfortunately for them, mostly stays on the Earth.

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MercenaryX In reply to Crystal-Dream [2019-02-07 06:47:15 +0000 UTC]

I kind of wish She lived, in the game she is Green and she desperately wants her friend back. I wouldn't have minded if she came back that she was half mewtwo with a Mewtwo tail, or she used your womb to be reborn as your daughter between you and Mewtwo.

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Crystal-Dream In reply to MercenaryX [2019-02-08 21:11:07 +0000 UTC]

Is that confirmed? That Green is supposed to be Amber? I mean, I saw "Game Theory" and they make some good points there, but if it isn't confirmed, I would take this with a grain of salt.

Hmmm, that is an interesting idea to have Amber come back to life as a daughter of Mewtwo, though.

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MercenaryX In reply to Crystal-Dream [2019-02-09 04:19:20 +0000 UTC]

I could see it happen because she cared for her friend, and id she cared for him so much she would do anything to help him with his hurting and to help ease the pain. Especially if he should remember her, and child mewtwo is just tooo adorable not see him have as son on top of a daughter. It would be good for him to have that stabilizing event into his life, mind you I use stabilizing very generously given how chaotic chikdren can be.

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kokorotoyume In reply to Crystal-Dream [2018-07-06 17:17:23 +0000 UTC]

I still like the idea, but I doubt I'll ever get around to it lol. Closest I'll probably ever get is with this picture, which now that I look at it makes me think it'd be a cover/title page XD, this image was one of the few things that I remember about it.

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