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V-J-Bartlett In reply to Nightfalls3030 [2015-08-27 20:02:44 +0000 UTC]

Hated the fact that J.K. never explained why Snape still joined the Death Eaters when it drove him and Lily apart and never explained what James and Sirius' big problem was and why the teachers never stepped into stop what was outright abuse.

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petith In reply to V-J-Bartlett [2017-04-16 03:40:03 +0000 UTC]

I can't agree more... why the teachers let their students do ANYTHING like that??? Surely they cannot be unaware of such affairs. Plus, I think I can never understand how Harry - he has to be the hero, hasn't he? - can be the son of James Potter and Lily Evans. After the DH, both seems just... far from good or briliant.

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liliCartMan In reply to V-J-Bartlett [2016-10-07 19:48:27 +0000 UTC]

the biggest gap is how Sirius and James actually changed, if they repented about humiliating Snape or not: for Sirius, it seems not, for James, he kept bullying Snape hidden from Lily and this makes thing ìs not clear. For Snape, he had the brain to think "Death Deater hve the same ideas as me, but both Lily and I have at least a Muggle parents: we both are in danger, and by the way both Lily and I are good wizards" while at least 2 the Marauders were Pureblood and ass: these example were enough to make Snape understand that "race" is not everything in making the good or bad person, and that Death Eaters were wrong. Fr teachers, I can think that they tried to stop bullies but failed, until these didn't "stop" (or started hiding bullying better?) by themselves, but were scandalized by Dark magic and Death Eaters too

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Nightfalls3030 In reply to V-J-Bartlett [2015-08-31 20:15:33 +0000 UTC]

Well, JK actually did mention that James always suspected that Severus was in some way attracted to Lily, which drove him jealous. That's why he always picked on Severus. Sirius might have known that, but he could have also hated Severus due to the fact that he was a Slytherin, and we all know about Sirius and Slytherins.

Severus might have joined the Death Eaters because I guess he wanted to be included. Lily really was the only person who had shown him kindness, that's why he loved her so much. And when he joined the Death Eaters, he'd most likely have hoped for them to accept him, especially since he had lost his only friend.

Maybe the teachers mightn't have noticed anything, even that event in which resulted in Severus losing Lily. Maybe they had, but JK just didn't feel the need to include that.

Some things are sometimes better left to the imagination... Not that I'd agree, but yeah.

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liliCartMan In reply to Nightfalls3030 [2016-10-05 16:40:00 +0000 UTC]

a reason worse than each other to pick up Snape  -.-  even if he joined the wrong cause  -.- they have a prejudice worse than each other and never abandoned them totally

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Nightfalls3030 In reply to liliCartMan [2016-10-07 14:42:41 +0000 UTC]

That's true. It's still unfortunate, however. But both of them were young and blinded by their abhorrent emotions towards one another. James was consumed by his jealousy to see any harm in his actions against Severus. Severus, downtrodden after losing Lily to perhaps the worst person in his life, as well as the constant bullying by the Marauders, drove him to join the Death Eaters.

It was still tragic for all parties. But yeah, Snape did end up suffering the most. At least James had Lily. And Sirius had Remus and Harry and everyone else. Severus was hated from the beginning by pretty much everyone, and therefore he had no one. And, he initially did nothing wrong to anyone. I find that to be the most tragic of all.

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liliCartMan In reply to Nightfalls3030 [2016-10-07 20:01:56 +0000 UTC]

you are right: the only wrong things he did initially was
A) Accidental magic on Petunia when she made him lose patience (ass of a jealous muggle...)
B) hating all the muggle
for the 1st, it was an accident, the 2nd could be corrected by teaching him tolerance, not by bullying him; same thing about correcting joining Death eaters and dark magic

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Nightfalls3030 In reply to liliCartMan [2016-10-09 23:24:55 +0000 UTC]

Yep. And it's unfortunate that because of these mistakes (which could be fixed up easily), he was made an outcast. :/

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liliCartMan In reply to Nightfalls3030 [2016-10-10 16:53:04 +0000 UTC]

Marauders could simply
A) tell him "please, not all the muggles are to be condemned, and you and Lily are both partly muggles and good students" but they had a too strong idea that slytherin = dark magician to try and tell Snape
B) not bully people: they did not bully Snape only for the matter of Slytherin and death eaters (Lily herself despised it too) or for him attacking people first (he did); they bullied all the students just for fun. Snape is a monster of lack of respect and selfishness, and of prejudices against non-gryffindors, but bullying him made the gryffindor marauders an awful example to correct him
Bullying people, to me, is a lack of coherence from Marauders too, no matter if they supported the cause against Voldemort, before and after the school:
A) they said "pureblood people are not better than not-pureblood ones, money and blood are not enough t make the good or bad magician" but they humiliated people just for fun, with no respect
B) they were "tolerant" towards non-pureblood people, but were no" racist" in another awful sense too, that they made no differences in choosing their victims, slytherins or non-slytherins, for the fact that they bullied people for fun, not necessarily for "good" reasons
and Sirius just shrugs about this, Lupin excuses a little, for James it is not "clear" that he repented: Marauders never grew up totally and kept their prejudices
But did Snape learn to be tolerant and fair?! no, he became a bully against non-slytherin people, and judged Harry just for James' appearance and bullying. He became a bully as Sirius did: disliked his tormentors (the Blacks = the marauders) for their attitude and ideas (racism --> bullying and boast), but tormented people in the same way (bullying for no reasons)

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Nightfalls3030 In reply to liliCartMan [2016-10-14 23:25:43 +0000 UTC]

Exactly. And these mannerisms are also found with the "Golden Trio" as well. Harry, Ron, and (sort of) Hermione still exhibit the same hatred and prejudices against Slytherins and even some purebloods.

But, to be fair, the rivalry between Gryffindor and Slytherin was around since the beginning of the school's establishment. So, in all honesty, the behaviours the Marauders demonstrated against Snape and other Slytherins were just consequences from then.

The pureblood vs non-pureblood conflict is another story, however. Although Snape's prejudices shouldn't be excused on these grounds, there is some justification in regards to his feelings towards Muggles. His father was a Muggle himself, and it has been hinted that Snape had been abused by his father. So, it does make sense for him to see Muggles unfavourably.

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liliCartMan In reply to Nightfalls3030 [2016-10-15 11:34:40 +0000 UTC]

I cannot excuse neither Snape nor marauders, even after having dead for the right cause: Snape is a total ass, imagine if he had been put to raise Harry (a s a father, mentor...) what kind of example of respect of people, tolerance,... would he give harry? I actually mistrust James too:
A) did he support tolerance and hate racism as an adult? yes he did, and joined Order
B) was he tolerant (anti-racist) as a teenager? yes he was
C) did he stop bullying people? he did in front of Lily, he kept bulling Snape far from her. Why? We could think that James did  for being Snape a death eater, okay, but bullying only made Snape's idea "gryffindor = ass, slythein = good" worse. And Lily still despised bullying already when Snape was joining Death eaters: that was not the mean to tell Snape "you are wrong". Did James bully Snape for jealousy? worse. Did James keep bullying Snape for fun? that would prove that, Order or not, James had not matured. In all the books, we have never seen James being sorry for Snape , neither totally as Lupin did) neither slightly. What ewould he teach harry? that anyone was a slyherin was A PRIORI bad and deserved being humiliated? because being bad was in their "nature"? when, instead, Lily had seen her fiend's mistae, but seen them too grow worse because of being bullied by the "good" James and accepted by the "bad "death eaters?
Why should we be so sure that Jame had become a good person, even when he married Lily? Being together till death is not a guarantee that husband and wife have the same ideas: my parents call each other idiot, unsympathetic towards their daughters, lacking culture... mother wanted to leave him but never did it because "she wanted to make him better" and "he was her daughter's father". They never divorced but living with them is frustrating, they never agree and if I make father content, mother feels offended and vice versa. And even not being a criminal is not a guarantee of being a good person: see the Dursleys.

Marauders and Snape keep hating each other for a prejudice too (House) that nobody in the saga completely destroyed (even the weasleys): that Slytherin = dark arts and bad, and non-slytherin = good. Marauders apparently confirmed this, but being bullies is as heavy as this. Snape apparently was a bad guy just as a Slytherin, but actually being bad was a result that Marauders believed "it is a due/confirmed by being Slytherin"At the end of the war according to Pottermore, many Slitherins abandoned their racism, but their house did not manage to stop being believed as bad.

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SuzanneEspeon In reply to Samuraibot [2012-01-10 09:48:52 +0000 UTC]

It meant that Snape still loved Lily after all this time and did everything for Lily, not for Harry. Dumbledore hoped/thought that Snape might have cared for Harry, but he never did. Hope you understand now

I really love this part in the book and movie. You did a great job Kyla

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Samuraibot In reply to SuzanneEspeon [2012-01-14 06:03:28 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for the tip. I was wondering what it meant and now I realize that Snape never had any care for Harry at all, when I thought he had.

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