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LaviArray — Sally Acorn Character Analysis

Published: 2013-07-27 11:23:56 +0000 UTC; Views: 12197; Favourites: 47; Downloads: 5
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Description   Oh Sally, I don’t think there is a character that has been as controversial in their own fandom for as long as you. Since her inception in the early 90s, she has been both loved and hated by Sonic fans.  And now that Ian Flynn, the head writer of the Archie Sonic the Hedgehog comic series, in which she is a star of, is giving her a redesign, her status as base breaker has just received more fuel.  However, when you look read the hate she gets, a lot of her hate seems trivial.  “Ugh! She’s naked”, “she's a bitch”, “she’s ugly”, “she’s a slut” (Really, guys?). While most of her complaints are immature and seem to lack any basis, I have to ask, does it come only from immaturity?  I would say yes, but after watching all of SATAM and reading most of the Archie comics, I have to say, while nothing about her was hateful, I always had this off-putting feeling about her whenever she was in focus, but I could never put my finger o. While her most common complaints are juvenile, I think the people are noticing this problem with her but choose to pick on her appearance or other tangible details. However, after analyzing her character for over a year, I think I might have discovered why Sally acorn get so much hate. However, before we go into that, let’s take a look at her character.

  Princess Sally Acorn has been a part of the Sonic Franchise since her inception in Sonic the Hedgehog series, also called SatAm in 1992. In her youth, she was trained in martial arts, technology and in strategy to be a great princess and leader. After Robotnik took over her land and banished her father to the Void, she became the leader of the Freedom fighters to defeat Robotnik. As leader, she is the most mature and calm of the cast, placing her into the voice of reason or only sane man position. Personally, she is said to put a huge amount of pressure on herself to make the best decision whenever possible. She is shown to have talents in strategizing, martial arts, and being well versed in technology, 3rd most behind Tails and Rotor. Over the course of the story she has had several love interests and romances, such as, Geoffery St. John, Antoine D'Coolette, Monkey Khan, Knuckles the Echidna (yep…), and the Blue Blur himself.  She is shown to be on good terms with the rest of the freedom fighters, but can only be emotionally open and vulnerable with Sonic, sometime being immature and selfish around him. Because of all these traits and not being a damsel, she has been nicknamed the Tomboy Princess.  

  So, after that you see why she is hated, right? Yeah, I need to clarify, huh? Ok, in order to explain why this profile leads to her being hated, I need to expound on and somewhat refute the most “mature” complaint that is launched at Sally; her being a mary sue. Now I don’t like this term in the first place, because due to overuse and lack of consistent context, the term barely has a definition anymore. Hell, even tvtropes, who has the best definition, rambles on about what the term means. However, to sum up their definition, a Mary Sue is a character who is breaks the audiences’ suspension of disbelief that they can exist in the narrative’s universe, usually by being treated differently than their other cast members. Does the term apply to Sally Acorn? Well, mostly no. Why? Well, one of the main complaints of Mary sues is that the story will revolve around them and make it seem that they are the most important in the universe for shallow reasons. While Sally also gets this complaint, she actually has the reverse problem. She’s whatever the story needs.

  Most conventional stories usually try to have characters, events and moral woven into the growing narrative. However many writers usually tend to focus on one over other elements, as Ian Flynn and many of the writers over Sally, tend to be more event focused. Now this isn’t a bad thing in general, but Sally problem arises with how the events are written. In both Satam and Archie, the writers will create a certain event, shenanigans will occur and Sally will come in and either solve it or come up with the perfect strategy to solve it, usually without hassle, such as the fight between Elias and Amadeus. While in general, this is lazy writing as having one character come in to solve the conflict, this technique causes 2 problems for sally’s character profile.

  First, she is rarely challenged as a character. Usually setting up a character to have conflicts that match their weakness usually helps them grow as characters and have them be more accessible to the viewer, like Sonic having to deal with water to save others or Knuckles dealing with his naïvety. Sally however is never challenged her on weaknesses event though she is supposed to have weaknesses. So this means she is a Mary sue? No. Why? Usually, stories with Mary sue have the plot show how the character is the greatest thing ever. Sally, however, actually is there to make the story look good. When she solves a conflict, it’s not because she is the chosen one or because of her unique talents, it’s because the story needs someone to resolve the problem (quickly) and the writers have Sally do it. In Satam, need someone to program a building to explode? Let’s not have Rotor, the designated tech expert, do it, just let Sally take care of it. In Archie, need someone to talk to a bird? Oh, Sally can talk to birds fluently, even though, all of them are talking animals. Elias and Amadeus are about to fight to the death? Sally can come in, use mean look and have them drinking tea with no consequences. This is why her abilities list is so strange, in comparison to Sonic, Tails or even Amy. Her abilities are what the story requires to complete.

  Speaking of her abilities, let’s move into her second problem. Since her character is defined by what the story’s needs, this leads her into being well… boring. To prove this let’s take a look at her ability list from Sonic Wikia, which has the longer one I might add. Sally has the abilities of: Hacking, acrobatic skills, diplomatic experience, leadership skills, martial arts skillszzz, zzszkilled strategiszzzzzz…, swimmmmingssszzzzzz…. WHAt?! What happened? I didn’t fall asleep… My point is, in a world where a girl can fly by using her ears, this list is underwhelming. But this is just the tip of this iceberg. Her personality shows this off a lot more.

  A character’s personality is regularly defined by what characteristics and behaviors they display, but can also be helped by actions they take outside of what the plot needs to complete. Rouge, for example, is greed and manipulative. Outside of Shadow, she shows no loyalty to anyone and will betray anyone to achieve her goal, which is usually getting a jewel. While this seems like a horrible person, this is a clear personality. Since, Sally is written to be only to be the voice of reason, the writers end up trapping into this category without any room to be wrong and even quirky, leaving her coming off emotionless a lot of the time. This is also why her relationship list is longer than the other characters, the writers can only get an emotion out of her when she bouncing off of another character, namely Sonic. However, this still would not be a good argument for her being a Mary sue. While many Mary sues tend to be the only sane man, they are usually shown to be more emotional and more interesting than their other cast members. Sally is just the voice of reason, she has no personality quirks or traits that make her stand out from her cast. Even if you think her character is more intricate than this, there is a bigger problem.

  So if I have been spending so much time disproving that Sally is not a mary sue, why did I bring it up in the first place? Remember the main reason characters are marked as mary sues is because they are written vastly different in comparison to the rest of the cast, usually by their character profile or how they contribute to the story. Have you notice I have been comparing Sally only to Sonic characters? Sally’s biggest problem is her character being written is vastly different in terms of the rest of the cast. While it is true that characters in a story should be different from one another, they should not differ on the fundamentals of their profiles. All of the characters from the games are 2-Dimensional archetypes that have easy to read personalities, generic abilities that usually tie into their characters, and cartoony or cliché weaknesses. Even if you want to argue Sally has a personality, abilities, weaknesses, they are not written or executed in the same manner as the others. Are these characters perfectly written? No, all of these characters could use more pathos and depth to their characters. But Sally is actually worst as she doesn’t have these traits or she does and they are poorly used.

“But you’re comparing her to SEGA characters. You should compare her to Archie characters!”

  Here’s the thing, I was originally going to compare her to other Archie Characters, except I ran into a problem. Most of them fall into this category. While some of them can be like the Sega cast, Mina and Nicole, (although, the later is a bit too Over Powered), the rest either are woefully underdeveloped, (Bunnie, Rotor to name a few) or they are written just as generically as her (Monkey Khan, Geoffery St John). While some of the cast also is written like this, it does not excuse Sally, because John and Monkey Khan are side characters who brought in when the story needs them while Sally is a leading character who is usually is interacting with archetypal characters.

  Having a character be so different from the rest of the cast they interact with without being justified is a problem as it brings up the question of “why is this character so different” in the back of the audience’s mind and there is no real answer. She might have weaknesses, but they are not criticized or challenged like the SEGA cast.  She might have she might have abilities but they are not as active or tied in with her character like the others. She could even be considered to have a personality, but it’s not archetypal or displayed in the same way as the others. She not too perfect to exist, she too empty to exist.

  Before Sally fans start insulting me in the comments, I would like to say I am not the only person who has noticed this, Ian Flynn did as well. The whole point of Sally, and the rest of the Satam cast, getting redesigned is to make them more consistent with Sega cast and to calm down the hate she gets. While her design is different from the Sega cast, this won’t solve anything because it doesn’t have anything to do with her character. While people complain about her design, if that was the actual problem, her hate would not have lasted for 20 years. Just because they complain about something, doesn’t mean that is what bothers them. In this case it is because they probably didn’t know how to voice their opinions about her as we tend to encourage analysis and critique of movies and stories, not characters.

  Now am I trying to defend the slut shamming? No, slut shamming or name calling is any way is immature, and is not tolerable in any setting. But am I trolling Sally fans? No. I am saying this because I want these problems to be fixed with her character. She needs to be a consistent level with the rest of the cast and she needs to be able to have a character that can exist without plot requirement, ergo make her interesting on her. Because going around saying that she is perfectly written is not helping anyone, including Sally.

  However I don’t think these are going to be fixed. Why? Next time. Archie Sonic series analysis.

See you next time.
Related content
Comments: 57

ShanahaT [2019-03-08 04:20:56 +0000 UTC]

This is a very poor analysis.  

a lot of what you just described, you got completely backwards. 

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LaviArray In reply to ShanahaT [2019-03-08 04:38:35 +0000 UTC]

How so?

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ShanahaT In reply to LaviArray [2019-03-08 04:58:35 +0000 UTC]

For instance

How is Sally not having super powers a bad thing? 

If you ask me, it's very refreshing for a Sonic character to not have super powers for a change. 
It makes her stand out more. 

Also, you seem to be ignoring that Sally had her story arcs and character development as well. 
Like her arc of realizing what she is capable of in the In Your Face Special. 
Her Training with Julia. 
Bonding with her brother. 
Learning to be brave when talking to Sonic about her feelings for him. 
Helping Mina understand Sonic as a person more despite the love tringle going on (learning to put others needs over her herself)
 
Lastly she has a very strong personality.
like being down to earth, largely Un-girly, Has a playful & Witfully dry sense of humor, kind and compassionate, and responsible. 
She's just not a one note and in your face type like the game characters are.
That's another thing that makes her refreshing.  

I would say that when compared to other female leads (especially these days), she's a breath of fresh air. 

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LaviArray In reply to ShanahaT [2019-05-13 01:22:25 +0000 UTC]

Ok. I wrote this when I was first getting into media analysis. I'm not super wild about this post but I think enough is right so I don't take it down.
However I'll respond to your issues as my opinions on Sally have changed a bit since I wrote this.

It's not about her having super powers. It's about her being able to fight. In action series, most conflicts, either for story progression or character development are usually dealt with by character's fighting something or someone to overcome it. When characters don't have someway to do that, they are usually don't do much to progress the plot or grow as characters. There are exceptions, but Sally was not one of the as she did not go through any conflicts that were meant to challenge something about herself. Granted, this was for other reasons, but having a character with no way to fight in an action series usually causes more problems for them than not.


Ok, one of the reasons I'm not wild about this post is because I didn't mention I was mainly talking about Flynn's run, which her not having internal character conflicts was a problem. And this only got worse in the reboot as her main role in the story was to point out the correct action for what the characters should do.

As for that character summary, I have problems with it, but my response is, "what does that amount to?" None of those traits amount to anything other than her being just a decent person, which is fine for a friend or a side character, but as a lead character in a cast of at least 8, you need to have more traits that can be explored and challenged.

The reason the game character's come off one note is because their personalities are always shown in more or less the same situations. But that is a writing problem of Flynn's as he even stated he doesn't see anything past that with them. However they hit that note because are defined enough to. Sally on the other hand doesn't even hit a note, because she just written to be a decent person without anything fun or wrong about her.

Maybe she could be a decent straight man, but besides Sonic, who isn't that over the top, no one else in the cast has an extreme personality to require a designated straight man for the group

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ItsDrPac [2018-08-22 12:46:40 +0000 UTC]

Drawing her like that doesn't help you know.

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neoYTPism [2016-10-28 22:33:34 +0000 UTC]

I don't feel particularly inclined to read the text right now, but I did read the speech balloons, and I did feel compelled to address two things:

1. When people call her a bitch, they're... probably not referring to nudity. Obviously it doesn't have the same implications among animals as humans. They're referring to her bitchy personality.

2. Not sure who calls her ugly... sure they were referring to her appearance? I consider her somewhat superficially cute as far as appearance goes, though I guess in the comics it depends on the artist.

Don't get me wrong, I do NOT claim to speak for all of Sally's critics. Not by a long shot. But I know my criticisms of her have been misrepresented sometimes, and I wonder if those may have been some of the ones you came across.

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MolemanNineThousand [2016-05-15 02:31:37 +0000 UTC]

She is one of my favorite characters of all time specifically BECAUSE she is controversial and a "Mary Sue", but even more importantly because of her criminal non-use in the games, which would be infinitely better with her, the other major cartoon/comics characters and the storylines and character development more common in those series.

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DawnFelix [2015-08-09 12:32:49 +0000 UTC]

Oh boy, I'm going to get soooo much hate for this, but I do not care and I already get use to it. Well, let’s just get this over with, so I'm going to rant about how stupid people and their illogical reasons for hating Sally Acorn. I'm just so pissed off at people for hating on a character for the most stupid reasons and not even bothering to explain why she's like that and whenever they actually do explain why, they just make shit about up like any typical haters.



She doesn't wear any clothing! She's such a naked slut!: It is funny since Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and almost every other male Sonic character doesn't wear ANYTHING BUT SHOES AND GLOVES, but why no one is complaining about them? The only reasons I could think is that the majority of the Sonic fans are girls and they love see naked male characters. Look people, Sally's lack of clothing doesn't make her a "slut" because a slut is someone who provides a very needed service for the community and sleeps with everyone, even the guy that has no shot at getting laid and everyone knows it. She will give him a sympathy fuck either because someone asked her to or she just has to fuck everyone she knows. Anyone see Sally do that? No? Okay then. I will not ignore that she is very provocative with her open vest and feminine body figure but if Sonic and other male characters can get away by being naked I see no reason on why the female characters need clothes except for Rogue The Bat see need to wear clothes. Also who said that Sally can not be beautiful, and be a badass in the same time, I mean just look at Wonder Woman from DC, Michonne from the Walking Dead, and Sonya Blade from Mortal Kombat.



She's a Mary-Su!: Like Princess Peach and the princesses from Disney such as Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, Snow White, Cinderella, etc, and yet I don't see anyone complaining about them and you people focus only on Sally?! A Mary-Su is a character that it is 100% perfect with absolutely NO flaws whatsoever. Sally is not perfect because if Sally is really a Mary-Sue she could solve any problems and stop any villains alone without help, and yet she have hard time on facing these problems. So, how Sally is a Mary-Sue again? Yes she's strikingly beautiful but appearance doesn't turns character into a Mary Sue if that was the case then every male character are Gary Stu mostly the anime one.



She gets in the way of SonAmy!: Amy Rose has had a tremendous crush on Sonic since he saved her from Metal Sonic when they first met, but Sonic does not seem to return her feelings, seemingly regarding her merely as a good-if occasionally annoying-friend. The fact that Sonic does not show as much attraction to Amy mean, he is not interesting on her at all. Amy is forcing Sonic to marry her, she also suffer from a delusional disorder because she mistake any hedgehog for Sonic, she acting like a crazy fangirl and yet people some how find Sonamy cute



I stop here because I don't really know Sally that much because I never see the comic or the SaTam show and some of her information, I found it on the wikia.

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uchihabankai [2015-02-15 11:30:19 +0000 UTC]

Poor Sally, I don't hate you. And I think you look great when you dress up. The people who say those things are nothing but assholes. And if I could, I would date you in a heartbeat!

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Fascinatinguy [2015-01-27 13:12:38 +0000 UTC]

According to you, when there is no mission or trouble, she does not have a purpose? That sounds cruel on my opinion.

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LaviArray In reply to Fascinatinguy [2015-02-23 05:18:17 +0000 UTC]

My answer to your question is here. laviarray.deviantart.com/art/L…

I partially wrote this due to your comment, so thanks for the motivation.

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Meginatorlicious [2014-07-19 14:19:54 +0000 UTC]

You know what I hate? How Archie describes Sally as a tomboy princess. They never even show her being a tomboy and honestly she can be sometimes the opposite of a tomboy. Another thing that I don't like is how they used to draw her with beautifull long hair and a body of a perfect woman with sparkles everywhere in the old comics, what made it even funnier was her saying: "I think Amy has grown into a beautifull young woman inside and out" while obviously she was the main focus because how all the characters reacted to her, like: "Omg, she is the sweetest and the most beautifull princess in the world"

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1Unicorn-on-the-cob In reply to Meginatorlicious [2019-02-12 17:39:57 +0000 UTC]

Old comment is old, but I wish we could upvote comments here, because I sure as heck would upvote yours.

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LaviArray In reply to Meginatorlicious [2014-08-04 20:44:11 +0000 UTC]

Yeah. She is kind of the prime example of why writers should not write characters they are in love with.

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MarkWilder [2013-12-20 14:11:50 +0000 UTC]

I don't think Sally (or anything Sonic related) is 'perfectly' written. That said: I think this isn't a problem with Sally so much as bad writing.


In SatAM's first season, Sally had a distinct flaw: she could be overconfident, and swelled headed. (This utterly disappears in season 2, and is replaced with nothing) On occasion, her ideas would fall flat simply because she did not consider the possibility of failure. This was exacerbated whenever Sonic had anything negative to say about any of her ideas, due to a sense of bravado she had in response to his (also swelled-headed) personality.


"Sally has the abilities of: Hacking, acrobatic skills, diplomatic experience, leadership skills, martial arts skillszzz, zzszkilled strategiszzzzzz…, swimmmmingssszzzzzz…. WHAt?! What happened? I didn’t fall asleep… My point is, in a world where a girl can fly by using her ears, this list is underwhelming. But this is just the tip of this iceberg. Her personality shows this off a lot more."


Are you saying that Sally doesn't fit in because she doesn't have weird extraordinary superpowers that define her personality limits? She was deliberately designed as a "Badass Normal", and it would be a great break from rabbits with cyborg limbs and foxes with helicopter tails.


The problem with her in the comic especially is the fact that EVERYONE has powers, making her skills unneeded. Knuckles has herculean strength. Sonic has super-speed. Silver is a psychic. Amy has a random magic hammer that can crush anything... Sally has punching and kicking. In her original appearance, (SatAM) the only one with substantial powers was Sonic.


This kind of thing is the reason Batman is so (annoyingly) exaggerated in DC's Justice League comics as opposed to everywhere else: compared to everyone else he has no staying power in a fight. (Flash runs at lightspeed, Superman flies and shoots lasers that cut through mountains... Batman has nothing but strategy and martial arts!) In an action comic, that doesn't work: everyone has to fight something. Despite her skill, she is often just a damsel in distress. (Mobius 25 years later arc)


A skilled writer would make them fit in *anyway* by making their efforts relevant to the story, instead of exaggerating them when the plot demands (Batman) or just leaving them in the proverbial ether to be rescued again. (Sally)


"Having a character be so different from the rest of the cast they interact with without being justified is a problem as it brings up the question of “why is this character so different” in the back of the audience’s mind and there is no real answer. She might have weaknesses, but they are not criticized or challenged like the SEGA cast.  She might have she might have abilities but they are not as active or tied in with her character like the others. She could even be considered to have a personality, but it’s not archetypal or displayed in the same way as the others. She not too perfect to exist, she too uneven to exist."


Neither "uneven" nor "too different" is the problem here. She has weaknesses, but they are not criticized or challenged like the SEGA cast? Sega needs to challenge them. Sally is ink on paper: she can't do it herself!


Sally has abilities but they are not as active or tied in with her character like the others? Get a better writer that is willing to give her something to DO with her skills.


Sally does everything the plot needs? Here's a good one: why not have one of the other characters do that for a change? Because they have nothing except their "active, tied-in" abilities.


"She needs to be a consistent level with the rest of the cast and she needs to be able to have a character that can exist without plot requirement, ergo make her interesting on her"


Is that *really* the problem? I don't think so: I think Sally would develop better with another franchise, not the other way around. It's not that her character lacks development or detail: it's that the Sonic franchise cannot afford to develop her character and keep up it's incredibly simplistic superpower motif. (Which seems to be most of the franchise) In short, it's not Sally that needs improvement: it's Sonic as a whole, otherwise she will never, ever get fixed, and will continue to be used as a plot-device fill-in for the "stories" this franchise makes.

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Chris000 [2013-10-25 06:37:06 +0000 UTC]

Your analysis is spot-on, my friend with a couple of things I didn't come to the conclusion to myself. Yes, Sally is indeed a character that is good at many things, and often times that does mean that she becomes the go to character for just about... well, everything. The concept of her being a Mary Sue was always going to be an issue. It is an analysis that is inevitable thanks to the fact that she is a main character in a cast of superheros. I always made it a personal mission to try and introduce flaws to her myself. I'm a writer who has pretty much written up an alternate interpretation of her character. Sally was always the mature and smarter one between her and Sonic. She was the one that seemed the most mature enough to make a decision of great risk and importance that affected thousands, if not millions. It's gotten so far that I've come to consider her, at least in my line of fiction, as the main Mobian protagonist over Sonic, because of the circumstances involved, Sonic has basically been degraded as the main hero. She grows up way faster than he does, and that becomes a strength that she uses, but she has to contend with the fact that life is never as simple as it was and she knows they can never go back. An alternate series of events that leads to a different end-result, but the character still performs true to form. Sally has more going for her than a lot of people realize. She can most certainly not be a Mary Sue, but she needs to be handled delicately as a character because she treads a fine line. 


As for the physical thing, I draw and imagine all my Mobians clothed completely anyway, and Sally as I picture her is decked up with armor and the like, but it's seriously just a cartoon Funny Animal. 


I never understood the slut-shaming of all things. True, she has gotten in just about everyone's pants (let's not even talk about Sonic), but I think that it goes a bit too far. What about on the other end of the spectrum when we deal with the borderline psychotic Amy? Not saying anything against that since eventually this was the way the pairing went the way I wrote it (but that took some character modification and maturing as well), but if Sally's a Mary Sue, Amy has the qualifications and THEN some of being a Yandere Sue if she had the chance. As for Sally, well, the Sonic thing didn't work out because of... let's just say a difference of ideals. 


Good write up. Some serious character analysis here that I can get behind. Excellent work!

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LaviArray In reply to Chris000 [2013-12-20 05:31:31 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for that. Sorry for the late reply. While she does that fine line now, she shouldn't be on that line in the first place. The girls needs to have problems that challenge her specifically, so she is an effective character in any universe.

Also, if you liked this, look forward to more character analyses. Even outside of Sonic characters.

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bvw1979 [2013-08-13 23:13:28 +0000 UTC]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjcIl_…


(my reply)

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LaviArray In reply to bvw1979 [2013-08-14 02:56:41 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the video reply! it was actually quite flattering.

Although, I do have 2 criticisms.

1) I said her main problem is that she is so tone dissonant from the rest of the cast. She might have a personality, but is not written in the same way as the rest of the cast.
2) Being a leader isn't an excuse for no weaknesses. Granted, she shouldn't play into being an idiot leader, but having challenges should be a part of the writing for her character.

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Kimhoyer [2013-08-09 17:53:56 +0000 UTC]

Sally isn't a Mary Sue per say as you pointed out, rather she's something related too it called a creator's pet.

 

A creator's pet is what happens when a writer gets too attached to a certain character, in this case Sally, Acorn. Once this attachment is done the writer will do his or her outmost to make sure she is in every single story that she can be crammed into, even if she has virtually nothing to do with it or her inclusion makes no sense. And this comic has suffered gravely for it as Sally is now the go to character for what ever is needed of a female to provide.

 

 

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LaviArray In reply to Kimhoyer [2013-08-14 03:10:57 +0000 UTC]

I agree that she is more like a creator's pet. I only avoid calling her this because I want to avoid tropes ruining my vocab.

And about being everything a female can provide, I disagree. she hasn't gotten pregnant yet. (Remembers the 30YL arcs.) Nevermind...

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E-122-Psi In reply to LaviArray [2013-08-23 22:50:25 +0000 UTC]

There's maybe one defining time I thought she kinda leaned into Canon Sue territory, and that's the Iron Queen arc. Her whole brief relationship with Monkey Khan was to show another 'Women Are Wiser' dynamic in which she 'improves' him and soothes his temper, his headstrong attitude being treated as a thoroughly negative aspect of his character and being erased by the end of it. 


Midway through we have an instance of Fiona appearing and Sally completely losing it, and rough housing her into subordination and risking their team up. This seemed like an instance to setup a role reversal and show Sally keeping your temper isn't always easy, but not only is Khan and the others completely ineffectual in calming her, but her temper is treated as completely badass and justified. Apparently Sally can even take aspects that are considered pure flaws for the characters she foils like Sonic and Khan and make them positive aspects (Satam oversimplified the 'taking risks is always wrong' moral, but at least they were consistent about it and punished Sally for it too). The fact Sally has almost never had a temper vice before (ornery and stubborn maybe, but not violent) makes this double standard all the more blatant.

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sundayflower [2013-08-09 17:09:24 +0000 UTC]

I'm reminded of the time I first got into the comics (around 100ish? Green Knuckles and what have you) after having heard a lot about Sally and how awful/awesome a character she was supposed to be. Turned out she was just there and I couldn't understand either the hate or the love for the character at the time. Still don't quite understand the love unless we're strictly talking about her SatAM iteration. That girl and her posse could be pretty entertaining (except Dulcy, she can cannonball into a volcano).

I didn't start to get annoyed with her until around 200ish when I noticed she had basically become the conflict null zone. Need to wrap up your story quick? Wrote yourself into a corner? Never fear, Sally-girl is here to talk down the problem at hand.

Anyway, thanks for your in-depth analysis of her and the problems that plague her. I appreciate it

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LaviArray In reply to sundayflower [2013-08-14 04:16:31 +0000 UTC]

No problem! Look forward to more of these in the future.

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E-122-Psi In reply to sundayflower [2013-08-10 13:00:03 +0000 UTC]

SatAm Sally was much better, but I think there were still some clear problems in development. She was still blatantly getting overshilled in spotlight (notice how little Bunnie and Rotor appeared compared to her). Also, while maybe not Sue-ish in quality, she still had that sort of 'smarter more rational female' dynamic against Sonic, with him always getting punished or shown up whenever he didn't listen to her. 


This was even worse because Sally's personality was more distinguished to be an opposite of Sonic, so required most of his defining characteristics to be simplified into being consistently negative and needing 'correcting' (eg. rather than being 'like the wind' and confident, he was just the 

perennial reckless egotist of the group). When you make a character that is a stands against everything that defines the main character, it's bad idea to always give them moral superiority over them.

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sundayflower In reply to E-122-Psi [2013-08-11 01:51:46 +0000 UTC]

Agreed on both accounts. That show had quite a few problems stemming from writers' favoritism towards Sally and I really wish they would've done more with Bunnie and Rotor instead. During the first season it seemed like they were going to be pretty evenhanded with the screen-time but then the second season happened and both of them became nearly indistinguishable from random background characters. It's just such a shame.

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E-122-Psi In reply to sundayflower [2013-08-11 02:39:29 +0000 UTC]

True though I might theorize that, while there was some blatant favoritism towards Sally in places (Ben Hurst even admitted she was his favorite character), it may have also came into the fact that Season Two streamlined a lot of the show and it's characters. Most of the cast seemed simplified to what foiled Sonic and those that hadn't gained a unique chemistry with him were mostly forgotten about (though I heard one of the staff didn't like Rotor hence his demotion). Sally's increased pedestal was annoying, but let's face it, how many shows follow the 'female character is always right' dynamic anyway?


Season One had a lot more writers at hand so there were more creative minds with different preferences and points of view in how to take the cast and story. Season Two as well as the comics were mostly limited to one writer so things would obviously be a bit more limited.


Granted Season One still wasn't perfect. Bunnie was a bit better off, but still didn't really get a center role like the others did at least once. Also while Sally was at least more fallible, I don't think they ever really got her flaws spot on (except maybe her arrogant rivalry with Sonic).

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KrissyBKillin [2013-08-06 04:49:18 +0000 UTC]

You... just did something that I have been trying and failing to do for about a year: Thank you!

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LaviArray In reply to KrissyBKillin [2013-08-14 03:33:27 +0000 UTC]

Not a problem. It took me about a year to get all of this down myself.

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12dougie [2013-08-04 23:18:58 +0000 UTC]

Actually.. I first tought that sally was the first one that appear in sonic series but actually.
Amy apeared first. I investigated and saw that there wher trying to find how amy could by.
Then! before that sally came, Amy was first.  And is very true on what you say.
I don't like sally so much but i don't hater her neither.

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FOX-POP [2013-08-04 17:54:07 +0000 UTC]

Very well written
You explained your points very well, I totally agree with all this

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LaviArray In reply to FOX-POP [2013-08-14 03:37:14 +0000 UTC]

Thanks both for the complement and for ;lending your work for the thumbnail!

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kingdariusx [2013-08-04 02:06:06 +0000 UTC]

dude you gotr the right stuff i totally agree i like all the sonic characters archie or not but some just need some help as characters sega needed to work on some of them more.

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MikoChan [2013-08-03 21:43:22 +0000 UTC]

Well, places such as the anti-Sally Sue club, define a Mary Sue as a character whose relevance to the story has been at the consequence of plotholes. It’s not just the idea of subjectively unbelievable feats. Writers contradict prior history to give her a bigger role. Much of what Sally has at this point, has been the result of several plotholes surrounding the character (and others) to resolve issues that took her off the field and from Sonic as well. Even the gist of the character must constantly switch between an incredibly reckless to cautious individual. Reckless to go to the field, cautious and reason oriented once she’s in the battle. I won’t go into the big switch of the older comics. I’ll stick to more recent examples as well as to what the character herself has said and agreed with. For example: why did she leave the field in the first place? Because her parents made a very valid point that as a royal princess and heir, it was too much of a risk for her to go to the field. Sally had been fine with doing Dear Aly for her people. We know the character didn’t make an attempt to go into the battle since the war on Robotnik started (after Sonic’s “death”) because it was only when she tried at the sight of Sonic being hurt that her parents thought to lecture her.  

Sally also broke down emotionally at the sight of Sonic being hurt. In the past, that alone brought back the reality she could lose him. So what changed?  At no point does Ian actually refute the reasoning she gives in #134 for why she broke down before he brought her back to field duty. Nor does it become a problem for her when she gets there.  Her fear of losing Sonic magically …disappears. Whenever he’s injured she doesn’t even flinch. Ian tried to explain Sally’s original behavior as a consequence for not having any emotional outlets and being irrational when Sally gave actual reason for her actions, and the character had more known emotional outlets to deal with her problems. She was seeing Dr. Quack, went to his memorial when she needed to release her emotions AND wrote Dear Aly which she even said was emotional therapy that helped her focus on the even greater love she had for her people.  


Her inconsistencies as a character have even affected government in a method that was contrary to her original position. Sally had to train miss out on what little of a childhood she could've gotten to become an effective leader to govern. Elias on the other hand wasn't really raised to have those skills and made one bad decision after the other. Observing Elias, Sally had felt that though he was born first, he wasn't bred or trained with the level of skill she had. Despite this she suddenly was okay with Elias taking over the throne when he offers (despite her saying she loved the people more than Sonic) and then when he screws up with handling the rebellion, she decides on forming a republic--and does not think to offer her services knowing fully well almost none of the people vying for office have any experience.


Another problem is that well, Sally’s skills are [B] often not[/B] merely there for the convenience of the story. Almost all of the skills she uses regularly involve the same skills other characters have. If it's a skill another character doesn't have, it could be replaced by skills other characters have or is mainly good for posing in frozen panels. That problem is primarily because when she displays these skills they are also (usually) within the same context of usage as the characters who have that same ability (battle).  We already have a character or two that can hack (esp. Tails). Bunnie, Antoine can do martial arts, if the story could adequately explore why that skill is something the team is in dire need of to the extent STKA need someone on the field to do that.  We already have a couple of characters with leadership skills on the field (most particularly, Sonic). We already have Sonic whom can make effective strategies when necessary. Even when he can’t on his own, it only makes him more accessible to foil other characters (supposing Sally’s not there). In many cases, these skills are mostly there to make her look good and well accomplished despite the story not actually needing her to be involved for any of these things.  We went years without Sally having to contribute any of these skills when she wasn't on the field. Even before her departure from active duty, the story struggled painfully with gimmicks to keep her relevant like the Sword of Acorns until it finally gave up.


I know, some will likely argue, particularly with “tact” and “leadership” that Sally is more qualified than characters like Sonic. Well again even if we ignore the fact that her involvement had nonetheless been unnecessary, Sally constantly switches gears from being more reckless than Sonic to cautions. She's also not super powered and her position as a political figurehead endangers the mission. The back and fourth of her characterization doesn’t actually help the story. Originally Sonic was the one who ultimately decided tact for the team. He could be flawed, but because he was flawed at decision making he was in a position where he could challenge and be challenged by OTHER characters. Tactical decisions do not have to merely reflect skillful application of raw data, but are also about values and beliefs.  So it allowed at least, for a convincing display of personality traits that could then potentially define why the main character needed in his life, the personalities of the other characters. It allowed for the stories to be more character oriented. Sonic's method was to try on his own, and then network with his teammates if his ideas complicated the mission.

That gets played out when Sally (not Sonic) is the central point of reference for tact. Worse, because her taking that position from Sonic is rationalized by her relative “greatness” the characters by design do not and cannot interject as much. So we see a lot less potential for this exchange even with her as the central source of reason. Sonic gets the job done even if that would feasibly require help from a whole bunch of friends from time to time. However I may point out that again that while this is a detriment to the story it’s not what makes her a Mary Sue. The part in all this that would make her a possession Sue is that she is only in this position to begin with because a writer wanted to slap her in there without dealing with the reasons the character gave for leaving and magically erasing complications that would ensue by Sally breaking down if Sonic got hurt in a battle.

And of course Sally’s placement in the story has impacted the directions of several other characters. Some like the Freedom Fighters are as Ian has even admitted more of Sally’s supporting characters and needlessly clutter the main cast. I’m not against non-game characters as primary Freedom Fighters. I’m against characters less oriented around Sonic getting preferential treatment because they’ve had a close relationship to Sally. You then have Scourge, Rouge, Fiona the Fox, and Mina the Mongoose had their directions changed on varying with explanations that makes no sense when Ian tries to rationalize it in-story and out of story. I guess “choice” for love interests doesn’t belong in Sonic even though Archie can give it for their flagship character. Nevertheless their directions carry plotholes to elevate Sally.

So, I’m not really convinced Sally isn’t a Mary-Sue. Though the concept of a “possession Sue” doesn’t inherently speak of a character’s potential, it just means a writer took a character that may not inherently have been a Mary Sue and elevated them by warping their personality and the surrounding story. I like the gist of Sally (untampered with).

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SkycladFox [2013-07-28 14:12:38 +0000 UTC]

You do raise some very interesting points and ideas, and I think you are broadly onto something, but I do have to contest a few things...

You seem to be implying, pretty strongly, that in the Sonic universe at least, if a character doesn't possess some extraordinary physical ability - speed, strength, flight - they're duller and more boring as a direct result.  Yes, they may well make less of a showy impact because they're aren't fast, powerful or airborne, but I really don't think it fair to dismiss them because of it, either.  One if the main reasons Sally's a personal favourite for me is that she doesn't rely on a superpower or simply blasting her way through to solves her problems - she uses her wits, her knowledge, her imagination.  She should be the organiser, the general marshalling the others, working out how all their remarkable skills can be best used in any given situation.  In SATAM you got a decent feel for that, but Archie, from all I've heard, use her a lot like Star Trek of the 90s used technobabble - as a cheap and easy soultion to a problem without having to put any real thought into it.

If Archie's stories are largely plot-driven - which I've no doubt they are - how is it the effects of that are only seemingly noticeable with the non-Sega characters, Sally especially?  If she's so bland and boring, and mostly used as a get-out-of-jail-free card, then why do people complain about her being out of character?  She doesn't really have a character to be out of, surely?  Why is it no-one seems to complain that Sonic is ever out of character?  Well, the Blue Blur is a simple, broad, easy-to-grasp personality - he's cocky, fast and heroic, and that's pretty much it, and as long as those traits are visible people are unlikely to complain; they're getting what they expect of him.  Sally, though?  Not nearly so simple.  It could be that because she's bland and boring any spark of character, emotion or energy jars as people don't expect it.  Or, more likely (to me, at least) she's usually cool, calm, collected, thoughtful, the most likely to react to a situation with a level head, so when she does act out, without any apparent good reason or motivation, it jars because that just isn't her.  The Archie characters may not be as colourful and bold as the Sega ones, but I'd argue they're richer and more complex, simply because without superpowers they have to work harder to be interesting.

While I think you've pretty much nailed the dichotomy between the two sets of characters, I'd disagree that the bigger problems lie with the Archie ones.  I feel pretty confident that there's an edict in place stating that Sonic, Tails and all the other game characters have to stay as they are - they can't really evolve, grow, change or deepen, but have to stay pretty much fixed points.  That creates a problem for any other characters you add in - it doesn't matter how complex and thought-out they are, if the people they're working with, so to speak, are simple and inflexible, there's little they can do to go anywhere without the aid of contrived plots and out-of-character actions.  Yes, the Archie characters are flawed, and messy, and badly managed, but that's because, I increasingly believe, it's the only way the writers can think of to make them work with the two-dimensional and inflexible game characters.

Sega's lowest common denominator policy is badly affecting more than just their Sonic games.  Yes, that approach gets you the broadest possible audience, but it also greatly limits what you and anyone else you employ can create...

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LaviArray In reply to SkycladFox [2013-07-28 22:47:03 +0000 UTC]

2 things:
1) I should have said this earlier but I thought it was getting to long. There is nothing wrong with Sally being a smart badass normal. If anything having a character with no abilities in this cast and being able to be calm is a good starting point. However, what are the negative consequences of this profile? What challenges does she face being like this? While she has no powers, she never comes into a situation where this has its down sides , nor  If a character, especially a main, has no problems for the story to challenge her on. Whenever she is suppose to fight someone who is smarter than her, she either avoids them or outwits them quickly in a very underwhelming manner. Always being calm is a good trait for a leader but even in scenes where she should emote never goes further than a oh my goodness face. She could have problems with relating to people as others could see her as being cold and distant, but it never comes up. Having no powers or emotions isn't the issue, having no problems because of it is.

2) Being complex is not an excuse to be boring. Here's the thing, two-dimensional characters can be complex. Amy, for example, her love for Sonic could be seen as an analogy for how girls are forced to believing that they need a man in their life to be a complete person and she goes to such extremes because of desperation of wanting to be whole. "But Amy isn't that complex in story". Exactly. Every character can have a different interpretation and be made into being complex. However it only matters how they are interpreted in story. Sally might have layers that can be explored, but they are never touched on in story and what is touched on doesn't effect her character. Leaving her to be somewhat dull.

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E-122-Psi In reply to SkycladFox [2013-07-28 17:48:34 +0000 UTC]

I think that kinda stems from the problem however, rather than her personality being composed of 'quirks' or demeanor qualities that compose both flaws and strengths, Sally's is determined by her competence, and most 'in character' moments requiring her to be The Straight Man and immediately smarter and more rational than everyone around her. Not only does elevate her 'Canon Sue' status (to the point of occasionally derailing other more established personalities to be more one note flawed so she can remain the voice of reason) it means there is no real way to establish proper flawed moments that define her character, and usually attempts to give her a 'Not So Above It All' moment take away from the point since they give her some random OOC vice she never had before and thus emphasize she is 'no herself' during the process (eg. moments she acts as reckless as Sonic).


This is kinda why I preferred her more whimsical character in Satam and early Archie. While they still overplayed her Straight Man role, it was defined from a certain personality trait, being more meticulous and cautious compared to Sonic and there was room to make proper character establishing flaws such as being finicky and neuroses prone. Her characterization was still more lucid than the other characters, but she had set quirks and traits that gave her a more subtle but effective entertainment value. I guess since this version of Sally still rarely had her flaws bite her in the back however, later writers simplified these traits into just being a smarter and more rational character overall.

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LaviArray In reply to E-122-Psi [2013-07-28 22:48:30 +0000 UTC]

^ This!

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We-All-Have-Rabies [2013-07-28 02:03:49 +0000 UTC]

Pretty much. Yeah.

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R4ph-89 [2013-07-28 00:04:52 +0000 UTC]

Well said, and perfect analysis. Image has nothing to do with character "it's what's inside that counts" as the saying goes. The reason for this group being formed is because of this fact. If Flynn is only going to change her look, then the effort is pointless.


Fix her personality Flynn, NOT her looks.

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redconvoy [2013-07-27 23:40:34 +0000 UTC]

I have to say that I never thought of Sally as a slut, whore, etc.  I thought she was a better character than the Disney Princesses and a stronger role model for young girls.  Where did everyone miss this?  She influenced some of the characterizations of some of my own creations with her attitude and maturity.  Sometimes the slut shaming comes from people who create their own OCs to place with Sonic also.  This goes on in every fandom (Yugioh with Anzu for example-you have no idea how much this strong female character gets bashed in favor of an OC to get together with Anzu's love interest).   ALSO, because she is a strong female role model and a not a damsel in distress, it makes her a target (They are not favorably looked upon for some reason).  Even if they dress her up, they are still going to have a problem with her because she is still going to be the same person underneath the threads. I think the white gloves is a bit much though.  The complaints will be never ending so there is no real solution.  I liked her the way she was, but some clothing would not hurt, but not to the point that she looks cartoony.  To me, it takes away from the character for some reason.  



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LaviArray In reply to redconvoy [2013-07-29 00:29:55 +0000 UTC]

I do think she is a good start of a female character, especially since they didnt make her only a love interest to sonic and they didnt make the same species as the lead, which tends to happen in anthro series. They should have taken a bit more time in making her character and in writing her properly.
Also, I kinda skipped the shipping complaints because I rarely take shippers seriously. Alot of the time I her them complain about characters solely for that reason. For example, make who fans dont like rory because he gets in the way of  11-Amy.
Although, I am still waiting to see it in action before I make my decision, I still her original design was fine, especially when Bates was drawing her.

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chibiheart333 [2013-07-27 23:39:35 +0000 UTC]

Woa! I liked it (: I agree~

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LaviArray In reply to chibiheart333 [2013-07-29 00:36:23 +0000 UTC]

Glad you did!!!

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MarkWilder [2013-07-27 19:22:21 +0000 UTC]

Believe it or not, Sally actually began in a cartoon, not the Archie Comics, and that is the problem.

 

In that cartoon, of the characters had a definite personality, and a definite function as a team player. The real issue here, is that Archie has been treating them as stand-ins for whatever they need.

 

Here's an example of what I mean: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ly0bJ…

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LaviArray In reply to MarkWilder [2013-07-29 00:42:03 +0000 UTC]

Actually, after hear so many people say she was in the comics first or saying she was in the show first, I just went and said she was in the 90s.

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MarkWilder In reply to LaviArray [2013-07-29 20:23:36 +0000 UTC]

By date, she was the cartoon's concept first.

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DarkmarkMSX [2013-07-27 16:10:01 +0000 UTC]

Excellent analysis, man! (or...girl?)

This list pretty much hits the nail on the head about Sally's character. I admit I am not a fan of Sally, but the reason I am not a fan is because of what you talked about; the poor writing makes her come across as shallow and boring. It seems to be a consistent problem with her character, as like you said, she was this way in SatAM, too (though, I will admit, not NEARLY as bad). I wouldn't have it nearly as bad for her if she had more depth or a defined skillset and personality.

You also nailed the other points about the underdeveloped SatAM cast and about the redesigns. Unlike Sally, I have a bit of a soft spot for the other SatAM characters, maybe because I can more easily see the wasted potential with them. (It's ironic that SEGA's mandates prevent the game characters from developing, but when the comic has original characters that CAN develop, the writers pretty much blow them off, put them in the background, rush the development with exposition, or all of the above.)

Again, great analysis, and I look forward to when you analyze the series itself.

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LaviArray In reply to DarkmarkMSX [2013-07-29 01:58:29 +0000 UTC]

Thanks man! (...or girl)
Keep an eye out for my full analysis. I hope to finish it this week.

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DarkmarkMSX In reply to LaviArray [2013-07-29 05:15:53 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome. (I'm a guy.)

And I will.

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