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linaket — DA Lit : Who We Are
Published: 2011-10-30 04:13:11 +0000 UTC; Views: 14275; Favourites: 527; Downloads: 1
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FocusOnLit . WritersInk . Beta-Readers
I am proud to be exclusively a literature artist. I really don't know how to do anything else. Here on DA, Literature is not necessarily under appreciated by most of the people in the community, it is just widely ignored. I think, really, many of us are completely okay with that. For the most part, we aren't here for popularity.
We are here for each other. We don't have thousands of followers. We don't have millions of faves. But for the most part, we have been able to find other artists that help us to refine our art. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I truly cannot express the appreciation and love that I have for my friends who consistently critique my work. One monstroooo , ChibiDomo , or any other of my adamant critique-rs is worth a thousand faceless, nameless followers.
We are a community of our own. There are many groups here on DA that inspire writers to not only do their best, but to help others as well. WritersInk was one of the first communities that I joined. It has a Weekly Roundup that features several selections from that weeks submissions, and a Writer of the Month that features someone that is active in both submitting and critiquing the works of others. There are wonderful people like thorns who hosts Chat Tours and gives prizes out at every turn, many of them from her own pocket. There are communities like FocusOnLit , another group that is dedicated to encouraging people in novel length endeavors, grouping members into teams as mini support groups. I met the wonderful ME-Jones through this community, another of my wonderful critique-rs.
We have each others' backs. We throw our money into this site as prizes to encourage others, and into communities so that we can properly organize them. We pass along news and contests through our journals and through as many communities as we can. We are quick to congratulate those among us that win contests, get featured, or get published. We (used to) fav any and all news articles regarding literature when we could, as well as link them in our journals for others to see.
We would prefer a comment over a thousand favs. I don't mean a "this is da bomb" or a comment with an emoticon. I mean something that is related to our work. Even if its just a few sentences about why you liked it, why you didn't like it, or what could be done to improve. We are more likely to comment than to +fav. I know that I have often commented on a literary work that I loved and forgot to +fav it, as opposed a visual work where I am more likely to +fav it than to comment. I can't necessarily say something intelligent about a work of art, as I am not a visual artist. I like what I like, I +fav what inspires. With literature, I comment on what inspires. And I want you to be even better. So I leave a few words, because just that is enough to encourage someone that was maybe questioning whether or not they should continue with this thankless art form. In fact, many of my closest friends here on DA I have gained from commenting on their works. And if you have browsed through literature and noticed the comments that are on a piece, they are much different from the type of comments on a visual piece usually are. More often than not, there is a conversation between artists about style, about substance, about themes, and about what can be done. It is a back-and-forth, an exchange of knowledge.
We see DA as a workshop, a way to improve and to get and give inspiration, not as an untouchable display.
With the new features introduced by Sta.sh writer, I at first found myself a bit confused and therefore ambivalent. I was simply going to wait it out until everything calmed down and then I was going to try it out. I was doing a pretty good job ignoring all the rage and hoop-la that was going on. Until this. This all actually comes as a response to spyed 's journal entry here: spyed.deviantart.com/journal/A…, and this section in particular:
THE LITERATURE COMMUNITY. One of the biggest factors in building Sta.sh Writer, and merging Journals with deviations was the simple fact that we could bring a massive amount of much needed support to the Literature community. The hottest button ever pushed at deviantART is our lack of support for Lit! Considering technical limitations, merging these systems brings a huge amount of support to Literature tools that can just as easily be used for writing Journals. Lit deviations can soon be skinned. Thumbnail support for Lit deviations will get a bunch of benefits. This poll didn't take that in to account, but I did. And I think when all is said and done, deviantART is going to be that much more amazing because of this change...
Now, I was just skimming through this article to really figure out what was going on with this sta.sh thing. This quote, one of the very last things in the article, seemed like a complete afterthought. A bandaid slapped on to a problem that no one seemed to understand. The wording doesn't even make sense. I actually barely understand what is trying to be said here. Each time I read it, it seems more and more as if the admins are equating a work of literature to a journal. As someone who writes for a living, I find this completely demeaning. It is bad enough that people will now be throwing things into the literature section because they don't exactly understand the difference, but it seems as if the admins are even encouraging this view. And, as I have stated previously, the fact that most literature deviants will comment as opposed to +fav'ing, worthy literature will be bumped off of the main page due to the fact that people, wanting privacy in regards to their journals, will now be dumping them wherever they wish.
Yes, being able to skin our deviations will be nice, I do prefer to have more control over the way my literature is visually presented. However, it will make no difference if no one will see it because it is now hidden under the fact that some popular visual artist just got an awesome new pair of boots. And the very nerve of lumping Literature in with Journals is disheartening. It seems as if the DA Admins themselves don't value the members of their literature community, as they seem to be claiming. Yes, this will appeal to members that are stoked about making their poetry pretty. But me? I'm a writer who is now studying their form at the graduate level, and you just said that my life's work is the same thing to you as a journal. Oh, and I get pretty thumbnails, I think. I don't know. You really weren't clear on what you said. Making it so that my deviation can be pretty is not support. It is pointing in the distance and telling me there is something shiny there for me to look at.
In regards to Journals and News: Before, I could glance down at the bottom of the page and see a list of popular news, and among those articles there was at least ONE regarding Literature features or contests. Frankly, I will trade my pretty deviations just to see a literature news article down there again. But I most likely never will. Because it doesn't matter how many of us do our best to +fav something, we Lit artists are severely outnumbered. In this same entry (above), it is noted that there were only about 40 news articles posted a day. Am I the only person that is completely ok with that? When have you picked up a newspaper that was as thick as an encyclopedia? News is news, and frankly, most of the communication between and within the Lit community was done AS NEWS FEATURES. So, how are you helping us, DAdmins, by destroying the one thing we had that would get us some attention outside of our own tight-knit community? If someone posts a News Journal regarding features from a group or Author Interviews, and we pass that around journal to journal, it will still easily be overrun by the +favs of any visual artist's daily journal about how delicious their dinner was. We will now be forced to dig to find our News articles, and it will never go outside of our community. You have hindered, not helped.
It seems as if the admins do not actually understand what is going on right under their noses and are now patting themselves on the back ("The poll didn't take that in to account, but I did.") for acknowledging us. We were doing just fine before you glanced this way and demeaned us, but thanks for that.
I realize now that I probably went a little overboard in my assumptions here, and yes, some of what I said was a bit of a stretch. Our dear admin probably didn't mean to say that Journals are the same of Literature, but the implication was there. We're writers, we can probably understand implications better than we understand what is stated outright. I don't see anything wrong with sta.sh, but I don't see how it helps us in any way. Which is why that I was angered by the idea that the Lit community is being used to buffer complaints, and people that aren't even in our community are then willing to accept that DAdmins were trying to do all of this for us. I thank the people that are willing to deal with change for our benefit, it is very kind and supportive and that is very much appreciated. But the admins did not help, and by claiming to have done so they are using us as a distraction.
Here are a whole TWO THINGS that would actually benefit the Lit community. These have been derived and honed from comments made on this journal. More to come, as they appear.
- Regarding News: I'm aware that DA will not go back to the way it was before. But instead of putting just the most popular journals at the bottom, simply default that footer feed to most popular journals in the news category. That doesn't seem like a stretch. Sure, right now when I click on the lit news what comes up is a journal about someone offering pixel adoptables. But, at least having it so that the actual news has a CHANCE to make it onto the footer would be a step.
- Get someone on your admin team that is from the Lit community. Just look at the wonderful volunteers we have. This step would allow for some kind of insight into how the Lit community works from the inside, since it is obviously different from the way that most of DA works. That not feasible? How about you just open a line of communication between the Admins and the Lit community volunteers. From what I understand, it seems as if they aren't allowed to say anything to Admins unless someone in the community contacts them. Why won't the admins contact the CVs, instead, to at least find out what it is that would actually help us? Suggested originally by bowie-loon123 here: fav.me/d4eefk2
Really, is that too much to ask?
Thank you for all the wonderful support. I think the mass amount of comments and the intelligent discussion that is happening here is a fine example of what the Lit community is about.
A few quotes taken from comments on this page regarding literature and the community:
For me, literature is equally if not more impressive than every other art that exists out there. I find it extremely hard to invent a bunch of characters, a world, a whole universe that is - as far as one can say that - original, and on top of that, create a story that keeps people interested until the last word. Your (as in all the writers) work should be equally regarded as any other artwork. MithrandirMoon
When you are treating art like journal entries, you are treating the art community with disrespect. We are just as much of artists as painters and drawers, and we need people to understand that we belong as just as much as anyone else. chibilvr091
I agree that the Literature community is very tight-knit and that a comment is worth a thousand faves. I'm fairly new to deviantART and I haven't had a real chance to fully immerse myself in the obscure and sadly under-appreciated literature world here, but I recognize its importance and value with ease. That being said, I realize that these things hold little relevance to the point at hand as they were merely examples used as tools to get your point across, but I still felt the need tell you how much I agree with them, because they are indeed very important to those of us who count ourselves within this community. Dreamscape195
Literature deviations with preview images and backgrounds get more views, that's true. But at the same time, literature is about the words that are on the page, not the image that's behind it. SpiritGlade
There are some amazing writers out there. The ones I have found need to be publishing their work or writing their own books. They should be encouraged. Bluesilver84
A comment is more beautiful to me than any +fav could ever be, and a three paragraph comment telling me about how to adjust my rhythm and word choice is worth more to me than all the money in the world. Writing is my inspiration to continue happily through high school, it allows me to tell the world about how I feel in such a subtle way that it creates an intimacy with the reader. No visual art, to me at least, can convey the emotions that a stunning piece of literature can. I believe that a sentence is worth a thousand pictures, that so many ideas can stem from a simple series of words. trustinparanoia
One of the beautiful things about literature is being able to imagine in the white space between the given details. To allow words to be building blocks for pretty mental (or, in some cases, literal) pictures. toxic--sunrise
I asked LadyLincoln , one of the most prevalent Lit News writers, if this merger made her feel dishearteaned about putting so much effort into a news article considering the lack of quality control. Her reply was this:
Yes, it does. I wonder if I should continue. Then I recall why I started doing so in the first place. I am here for my community - to try and help make a difference, even if it is in a small way. And should it only reach one person and has impacted them in some way, I have done something wonderful and that is what truly matters to me. LadyLincoln
Keep 'em coming.
This entry was, surprisingly, awarded a DLD! Please check out the other artists that received this recognition and
the article here: fav.me/d4f966y Thanks goes to Nichrysalis for being one of the first Lit deviants to help get the word out about this article.
& thanks to AssClownFish for the support.
& thanks to everyone else for comments, favs, and plugs. It is much appreciated.
Related content
Comments: 333
I noticed. I'd rather not give him even one more pageview though.
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That's true. We shall just have to see how he continues.
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When people are short sighted and closed minded to others, i don't see things changing either.
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If anybody else were to go "I'm asking you to fave this" you'd be mad too.
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You bet your ass i would; i would probably be so mad that i would extrapolate unsaid statements and then use them in arguments to prove why all sorts of narcissistic, elitist pricks shouldn't be able to push forward agendas - no matter how many peoples' opinions they might be voicing - because those people and their communities that they dedicate their time and efforts too, yet often see little to no regard or acknowledgment in return, don't deserve to be heard when other more happy things need to be said. I just would hate that the minority groups were trying to express their opinions and, because of the alms-selling 'favorite this' tactics, force out the more delightful stories from my newsfeed just for their personal gain; absolutely ridiculous and inconsiderate, you know what i mean?
Gets me all riled up just thinkin' about it.
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.... (I'm gonna give you a secret 
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(secret hand-gestures are the best of hand gestures 
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o_O But *linaket doesn't have a ton of watchers. 240-something watchers is not a lot. I'm afraid I don't follow your argument there. The only thing I see being demonstrated here is your complete ignorance of literature and the literature community. YOU are the one being a snob here by telling us our craft is somehow lesser than the other art forms. NO ONE here has claimed literature to be any better or worse EXCEPT yourself.
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I'm ignorant to people who say "I'm going to ask that you +fav this."
Nobody whines about other galleries.
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They do actually. Poor artisan crafts barely gets any attention for example, except for a handful of popular artists 
We're not asking for a complete site overhaul here or anything (dA did that on their own
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I'm not sure where in this article you're getting the idea that the lit community stated "We are superior." We're asking for equal consideration and representation.
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Spoken like a true writer!
I agree 200%, stash actually isn't all that bad. It's even come in handy one already (namely the private link part) but the merging of journals and news is proving to be a huge inconvenience.
I don't mind so much about Doitforthelulz's whole poop thing (he's doing it to prove a point, we're on the same side here) but I hate how none of the literature articles are up there!
Still, I was trying to stay positive so I went to the browse journal section and clicked on literature news.
The top two articles were about Hetalia. Freaking Hetalia.
Now I don't have anything against Hetalia but honestly, that doesn't even count as news! Let alone Literature news.
So even if you don't change the system, DaAdmins, could you at least put down stricter rules concerning where journals are placed in terms of categories?
Thanks for explaining things so clearly!
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I don't understand this logic from the folks in charge.
I can't draw. Not to save my life.
I joined because a friend was hosting a contest for literature and wanted to host it here rather than on a different site that we are both on. I'd thought it was going to be a one time thing but as it turned out I discovered that I liked the literature community here, and now most of my stuff goes up here first before it hits the other place.
Trying to call a journal a deviation and giving it the pretty background option seems to draw the eye away from the work rather than to it. I liked the barebones approach to it and, in fact, find it refreshing. If a literature deviation is good enough it will stand out on its own, without the need for fancy things floating around in the background.
This particular change is less of a help to Lit than the devs think. Maybe they'll refine it in time.
Of course this comes from someone who's been waiting for a year to an answer as to why the last five messages in her inbox will not stay deleted.
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dA has never had a clue about literature, and from the looks of it they never will.
The last thing we need is more complexity. It's already complex enough. I experimented with sta.sh myself only long enough to know it doesn't like .odt files, making it totally useless for me. As for the rest -- I don't want my lit deviations to be prettier, skinned, or any other nonsense. I want to be able to submit a file produced with the word processor of my choice and have it appear more or less as I submitted it, in readable form, with typography intact.
The one thing they do right here are the lit thumbnails, featuring the scrolling text. A relatively welcome new feature is that PDF-formatted submissions can now (usually) be seen without having to download it, although the stealth submission to Google Docs is not what I want and I don't use it for that reason. But for the rest, if THIS is what they think is good and useful for the lit community, and even more if they think lit is really, at base, no different from journaling, they're worse than clueless. They're clue-immune.
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OK, with a little more experimentation I see you can copy-paste into the sta.sh text editor and it seems to keep your styles. So I retract that part of my complaint: it's a VAST improvement. Nice they're finally catching up to "cutting-edge" venues like LiveJournal, feature-wise.
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I did notice that a bit later (killed one of my arguments, too 
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I think that the beautiful thing about literature is that it makes you think, and use your imagination. Most lit writers don't want to skin their works or make it 'pretty' because that detracts from the experience. I'd prefer to read black on white than a fluorescent multicolour piece, thank you. This was the first thing I thought when I saw the change, and I am still quite angry about it. The sta.sh write has its good aspects, but I really think the admins need to reach out more.
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I've got one person who consistently comments and critiques my literature. My literary advisor.
And you know what? I wouldn't have it any other way.
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My sister is in fact in all aspects of the cominuity, but she spends more time on her writing account. I admit I don't read these updates, but after seeing this I finally reaslied DA needs to pull their heads out there asses, lower their ego and listen to the damned community. Sure they run the site or whatever, but it's the community that holds it together. And my journals are random crap spewed togehter, how they could be considered lit in the slightest is beond me, some people can't spell for shit on here ether, also trolls get popular and their journals are the worst, yet they get noticed massivly.
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I really don't mean to be a stalker, but I found your journal at the bottom of the page, read it, and found that it really mirrored what I've been thinking for a while. (I almost wrote a journal myself, but a) a friend pointed out that it would NOT be a good idea to post something that undermined visual art on an art site and b) nobody really reads things anymore anyway.)
I can't honestly say I'm a lit-only deviant, but I do write considerably more than I draw (and much better, too) and I know how much it means to have ANYTHING related to my work as a comment. Favs don't mean as much as a thoughtful comment about your work and knowing that someone out there took the time it took to actually read words instead of just scanning over pretty colors.
I also agree that lumping works of literature in with journals is kind of insulting. Granted, there are times when I get poetic in my journals and it's probably better than any literature I put up, but honestly - if I wanted someone to take it as literature, I'd post it that way.
Thank you so much for writing about this; it is long overdue.
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That is ridiculous... 
As an artist and a budding writer, for DA to simply lump together chapters, short stories, poetry and other written creativity with "journals" is just rude, to say the least.
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I agree, I was quite happy with just... posting literature <_> How are they even closely related to journals I don't get iiiit.
As for sta.sh writer, I haven't even looked at it yet, because I was already content with what I was doing >_> I really hope this isn't going to stop me from posting my literature how I used to.
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I can't call myself a member of the Lit community, but you've got my full support. Putting journals in the same category as poetry is something that should not happen. I don't want to treat my journals as deviations either, they simply lack the time, effort and thought artists put in their work.
+faving this and hoping that something will be done about the whole issue.
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I love you for putting this up. This is exactly how I and many others feel about the situation, and it's good to see someone from our community step up and say what's been on many people's minds!
Seriously, when I saw the whole thing about these new changes supposedly 'helping' the literature community, I felt happy at first, and then I realized that it was actually doing no favours for us at all.
When I realized that they are essentially calling journals 'literature', I wanted to scream. Literature is art, and a beautiful way of getting a message across or telling a story. A journal is, to be blunt, somebody telling others what they've been up to. I mean, you only have to look at my page to tell the difference - my journals consist of me rambling on about random stuff that nobody probably cares about, but my literature pieces are me telling others a story and expressing emotions and feelings to them. I think that speaks volumes now, considering what the dA admins are saying.
Thank you for putting this up. I'll feature it ASAP and try to get in some more support for this (not that it's needed anymore though-you definitely have a lot of support!)
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"Each time I read it, it seems more and more as if the admins are equating a work of literature to a journal. As someone who writes for a living, I find this completely demeaning. It is bad enough that people will now be throwing things into the literature section because they don't exactly understand the difference, but it seems as if the admins are even encouraging this view. "
Hear hear man
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All of this is so true 
I just hope it makes soem changes. I for one, are new to the literature stuff, and am just starting out a bit writing just for fun. Liturature is just as creative as visual art and should get the same amount of respect.
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This entire new update that dA had enforced made me quite sad.
You know, I spent a good long hour trying to think of something really worthwhile to go here. I typed up a lot, and then retyped it again, but nothing was coming together like I wanted.
I think I'll say simply that I want, no, need my news back, and that I'm sorely disappointed that journals are now hinted at being considered literature. That's kicking dirt in our face, then trying to make things all better (in that not-really-sorry-just-doing-this-because-mom-said-so-toddler sort of way) by showing us a pretty picture (called Sta.sh and preview images) in hopes of it actually fixing what wasn't broken at the time, but was made so.
Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up.
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They also did a very bad job at explaining all of this, and what-the-hell ('scuse the language, though it doesn't really matter) Sta.sh is.
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Essentially, Sta.sh is a multiple-upload/we-really-want-you-to-hide-your-stuff-here service with a writer program that is the equivalent of Google Docs, but only half done, and really badly done at that.
That's after working with it three times in a row on something I really will not show to the world. >.<
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Mmm, but the way they tried to explain everything was so vague.. I had no idea what they were trying to 'sell' me. (Thanks, by the way).
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I personally think this situation is altogether too vague, not merely the entire concept of Sta.sh (which I had to personally fiddle with before I ever realized what exactly it was), but essentially this entire ordeal. Each time I try to figure out what all is going on, I only confuse myself further by in the world is going on here. I honestly will admit, other than the Sta.sh platform itself and the (entirely wrong) concept that a journal is a deviation, that I really need to have a short synopsis of what's been done to the community.
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I'm with you there. I'm hearing so many 'why is this, this?''s that I don't quite know what actually happened. I'm an easily confused person, so I'm quite confused as to what the changes are, and how they benefit us. All I know is that I don't have my news anymore (which I relied on) and that now there's this alternate sort of posting stuff which is really complicated, and can maybe store deviations there. Also it somehow uploads private journals. I have no idea what the difference between that, and writing an actual journal is. But that's okay. Because, apparently, us deviants don't have a right to know the exact changes that were made, and a decent, NOT FUZZY or glazed over FAQ about it.
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This will probably be the only "journal" I will ever fav.
I completely agree with everything said here.
I stumbled into this whole drama the exact same way as you did. I am glad to see the Literature community uniting and telling Admin that they have not supported the Lit community at all. That comment sounded like such a joke to me. I was offended by it. I am glad I am not the only writer to feel as such.
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We are in the featured journals! This is great! The message should be getting across now: Literature and journals are two separate things.
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[link] My overall reaction specifically to StashWriter along the combined views of a learning Lit writer and a web designer.
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In the back of your mind. : P
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I'm not even sure what DA has done. I read the majority of this, but whatever has happened, I'm still not clear on. (Sorry, I'm not very intelligent, nor do I have a very long attention span..)
Are you saying that journals and lit are the same thing now on the site? Like, submitted the same, appear the same, etc?
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THE LITERATURE COMMUNITY. One of the biggest factors in building Sta.sh Writer, and merging Journals with deviations was the simple fact that we could bring a massive amount of much needed support to the Literature community. The hottest button ever pushed at deviantART is our lack of support for Lit! Considering technical limitations, merging these systems brings a huge amount of support to Literature tools that can just as easily be used for writing Journals. Lit deviations can soon be skinned. Thumbnail support for Lit deviations will get a bunch of benefits. This poll didn't take that in to account, but I did. And I think when all is said and done, deviantART is going to be that much more amazing because of this change...
This quote is key to understanding what is going on. $spyed is proposing several MAJOR changes to the literature community in that quote, but he glosses over it as if they are almost irrelevant. Besides that, there are many problems with sta.sh writer, the main fact being it is not an improvement at all over the classic submission system. He also suggests that they are merging journal and literature systems so that they will have the same tools, which, in all honesty will detract from the writing itself.
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Posted a blog about it here
Tweeted it here
Facebooked it here
Not that I have the ability to speak on behalf of all of #theWrittenRevolution , but I and the administration team support the discussion taking place. Keep it up!
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^This guy.
i support him speaking on behalf of me.
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^This guy.
I support this guy supporting that guy speaking on behalf of me as well
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Hello America.
My name is alain and i support this message.
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^ I support all you beautiful people (I'm getting delirious from lack of sleep. What is this, day four?)
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I'm not sure either 
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