HOME | DD
ltiana355 — 20160905dsc00028
by-nc-nd
Published: 2016-09-06 17:30:43 +0000 UTC; Views: 515; Favourites: 41; Downloads: 7
Redirect to original
Related content
Comments: 30
i imagine it is scorched fir wood.
it looks like some of the pillars survived the fire of 1992 and have been reused.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Not to be a nitpicker, but how can this upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia… be a reconstruction of this upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia… ? Was it reconstructed during a really dark winter? Reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantoft_…
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
i think a lot of wishful thinking was involved
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It looks every bit as neopagan as the nazis that burned it down.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
it looks pretty much like the church they copied from (no.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgun… ), which is authentic.
anyway, it was re-re-built with care, and the details are fantastic.
i've seen one of the real ones, but only from the outside and on a very grey, rainy day. it looked soggy. should visit it again in the summer.
as for the 'nazis', i think they cannot be called that. they were just misguided dellusional attention seekers.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Ahh, so the Fortun Stave Church was moved to Fantovt where it was destroyed and subsequently rebuilt after the example of the Borgund Stave Church. That makes sense
I am personally very much in favor of revindicating the "barbaric" Nordic culture against the backdrop of what I like to call the "slavish adoration of Ancient Greece" that has been plaguing Europe for the past five centuries or so (did you know that the Greeks themselves were looked upon as backward idiots by the Assyrians for still worshiping anthropomorphic gods, while the Assyrians had long moved on to having more advanced and sophisticated stellar deities?). I also have nothing against exploring ancient pagan beliefs. Unfortunately, every attempt to do so will instantly deliver you into the hands of anti-Semitic, xenophobic (and indeed delusional) nationalists with totalitarian ideas "(nazis"). I'm not sure why that is: either the thing has completely been hijacked by people who want to use it to underpin their own political ideas and biases (as has been happening with "neo-Slavism" from the very start as well), or these ancient pagan beliefs actively induce that kind of thinking (see Wagner's warped mind for example).
An additional complication lies in the fact that most of the "truths" held in neo-paganism are the result of highly speculative, quasi-scientific, 19th century theories which just won't go away, probably because they do have a certain sex appeal. The fact is that we know practically nothing about those ancient pagans because they didn't write anything down. I do personally feel frustrated about the fact that it's apparently impossible to lift this issue out of the realm of stubborn imbeciles. To drop the drama, so to speak. Even if the process of Christianization didn't necessarily offer a pretty picture (there's still a lot to be said about that beast Charlemagne, who thanks to centuries of propaganda many still see as a "great" king), it all happened 1000 years ago! And besides, it's pretty hard to maintain that the old Vikings were innocent as babies as well
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
thevikings here are very hippie-like - beads, braids, amulets, tattoos, song and dance, and many 'viking markets' and 'viking camps' during the summer. it looks like half the population has a viking costume to use on such ocasions. people are having fun, and there are some vikings of visibly african or asian descent (but nobody wearing hijab jet 
i havent't seen any political moments yet. i don't know how it is in other parts of europe.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
There was definitely a load of ideology involved in those church burnings. They were carried out as an act of revenge on the Evil Christians for their conquest of the North, and were intended to usher in an era of liberation from centuries of oppression by those Evil Christians and a return of ancient Viking beliefs. Seriously
Are you having a heatwave in Norway too? It's f-ing 31C here in Holland in September!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
i think you're taking the dellusions of isolated individuals too seriously. some of them confuse 'the lord of the rings' with history. ideology is supposed to be more organized.
of course, we have 'soldiers of odin', but i've just come back from a 'viking market' where there weren't any metalheads or racists (at least declaring themselves openly as such), though it was full of friendly and creatively occupied hippies/vikings.
but, generally, i think that people who reject one god only to find themselves another one (old or new) are sheep. and anybody who means the olden times were so good (no matter which culture) is an idiot - the average life expectancy was about 35 years, so obviously life must have been worse
no heatwave, but there is a 'warmwave' - about 20C and sun now and then - not bad.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
No offense, but you can talk to the Utoya victims about taking the delusions of isolated individuals too seriously.. Those church burners were in many ways Breiviks predecessors. This isn't about individuals, its about ideas. Vikerness wasn't acting on his own behalf, even if he was one of the only ones among peers to have the "guts" to put his ideas into practice.
Speaking of sheep: from the 1960s people all across Europe decided to liberate themselves from the terror (or at least constant interference) of priests and vicars, setting off the process of secularization, which I think is great. But what did they do next? They ran straight into the arms of "spiritual" "gurus". I mean, come on.. But apparently humans simply have a certain need for truths founded on exactly nothing. These people tend to look upon India as a kind of spiritual capital of the world, while at the same time they appear completely blind towards the kind of society this high level of spirituality has produced. Not one they would love to be part of, if it weren't from a privileged position.
These highly spiritualized fellow humans form another significant part of neo-paganism and all that. If you want to learn more about the history of the ancient Germanic tribes or Nordic religions through the internet, you will inevitably end up either on sites full of wisdom about spiritual levels, astral pulses and whatnot, or on places like st+rmfr+nt.org. That's what I was talking about. It seems almost impossible to find any information written from a non-emo (spiritual/nationalistic) viewpoint.
The way you describe your 'viking market' makes it sound as if the neo-viking thing has reached the folkloristic/tourist level. Let's keep it there, probably
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
what has breivik to do with vikings and neo-pagans?
he is just another example of how ANY sufficiently deranged person can be motivated by ANYTHING, and use it as a pretext for destructive actions.
some people use an idea as an inspiration to destroy, and other use the 'same' idea as an inspiration to create beautiful things. it is not the idea's fault. it is the pepole's fault. and it won't make me reject or despise the beautiful things.
as for the 'gurus', 'spirits' and what not - they are is the same category as the gods.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"Vikernes, an advocate of white nationalism and Neo-völkisch movements , said that the church was burnt down as retaliation for building a church on pagan grounds." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantoft_…
There are clear links between neo-paganism and the far right. That doesn't mean to say that every neo-pagan is a "nazi", or that every "nazi" is a neo-pagan, but there is a common ground, and it was on this ground that Vikernes stood. And "white nationalism" certainly applies to Breivik. Both at least partly share the same ideas, and neither can be said to have operated alone because both had been feeding on neo-nazist ideological poison for years. Not just ANYTHING.
And of course this will have little to do with your 'viking market', but in the case of those church-burning black metalists these things were heavily intertwined. And I was talking about the church burners, not about the "Sunday Vikings"
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
what vikernes said or is reported to have said is not good 'evidence'. he first said something, then said the newspapers had misinterpreted him and taken him out of context. and much of what he said was bragging for the sake of publicity.
but if you listen to interviews and read the writings on his webpage, you can get the gibberish directly, and see that he is twisting every piece of information and adapting it to his own picture of the world.
-----
as for 'anything', i still insist that anything can be used as an excuse for despicable actions, if it can be used to identify 'us' against 'them'. religion and race are the obvious candidates, but you can as well add clothes, hairstyle, food, music, political affiliationl, football teams, whether you crack your boiled egg on the blunt side or on the pointy side, and what not.
so, yes, anything
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It almost seems as if you're trying to protect the guy. Anyone who publishes material on a web site titled Thulean Perspective "For Blood and Soil" is a nazi to me. Maybe I'm being narrow-minded, but for me that isn't open to interpretation. Plus the fact that he's widely considered neo nazi sympathizer and a white supremacist (but then he could be doing it just for publicity, who will tell..). As for a comparison or the neo-paganism / viking revival thing with "whether you crack your boiled egg on the blunt side or on the pointy side" I feel you and I are on different planets. It's just too much to explain. I frequently come across Russian neo-paganists on the interwebs with the exact same story about how Christianity destroyed their precious culture. And it aren't the Christians themselves they hate most, it's that "Jew God" they brought with them. Which is of course fully open to interpretation.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
christian against pagan (or vice versa), shia against sunni, white/pink/beige against black/(dark) brown, jew against non-jew, 'arian' against whatever - all of them are equally 'nazi', and the differences they are using as pretext are equally stupid and purely imaginary.
i wonder why you get so hung up in the neo pagan thing - they are just another example of what humans are like. people need to identify with something. identity can be used as a motive to create or to destroy (some rare individuals do both). it is sad, but, unfortunately, this is how it works.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It's you who seems to have a hangup about neo paganism, because you appear to feel personally attacked by any hint of links with the far right, even if to an informed person these are quite obvious and evident. Which makes reasoning with you about the subject a bit cumbersome, so let's perhaps forget about it. And just for clarity, I do think I made it quite clear that neo paganism and the far right aren't necessarily the same thing. There's just definitely a common ground. At least parts of neo paganism actively nurture the Romantic Nationalistic sentiments that form the very basis of the far right. This is the domain of types like V. But if you don't want to see it you won't see it I guess.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
thanks
i haven't quite managed to capture the colours as i saw them with my eyes.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
well, they are certainly captivating!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
thanks
the same arid landscape
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I enjoyed a lot seeing it again. You're welcome!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
partially burned firwood, i think.
the surface of one of the pillars of this church:
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Oh amazing ! Beautiful texture and colors.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1