HOME | DD
Magnus-Strindboem — Bannockburn: Cliffords Charge
#bannockburn #battle #bruce #cavalry #charge #highlands #history #knights #medieval #scotland #spearmen #stirling #warfare #warrior #warofindepence #shiltrom #3dartwork #daz3dstudio #irayrender #daz3diray
Published: 2019-01-29 19:15:16 +0000 UTC; Views: 7897; Favourites: 257; Downloads: 75
Redirect to original
Description
One of the first clashes of the battle may have been the flanking attack of the English medium cavalry divisions near St. Ninians. They tried to move around the Scots using the few paths and fords through the Carse bogs. The Scots countered by blocking their way with a large Shiltrom formation of pikemen, led by Thomas Randolph. The English on the other side where led by the lords Clifford and Beaumont. Lacking archers, they could not break the Scottish defense.This is based on the previous pictures of the Bannockburn project, but trying to push the number of combatants visible in one picture. There are around 300 soldiers (Genesis 3) in the set plus additional horses.
Actually all persons could be rendered in on go, thanks to some valuable information concerning optimization by . Also I heeded the advice from to use the Scene Optimizer. I'd do a lot of stuff different the next time, but this really helped me to improve my workflow for large scale pictures.
I still did a second render of the sky and combined it in postwork, because of the better lighting results without the use of an HDRI in the main picture.
Daz3D Iray Render ~ 1000 Iterations.
Related content
Comments: 146
Yeah, fascinating stuff this is. Actually as far as my sources go, the English did not manage to get their archers into position at that place on that occasion, or the Scots would have been in hot water...
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Are you Scottish, friend? The Middle ages fascinate me a lot! I studied the period. Banking started then in the city of Florence. As a matter of fact Edward 1 borrowed or financed his wars with the Scots with money from Florence. Do you know what collateral he used - Wool, from Yorkshire. That is why he had a fit when Wallace sacked York!
FYI Presently I work as a Day Trader on at the Stock Exchange.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah wool... of course not exiting enough to be a topic for braveheart and the like... but Edward sacked Berwick first... fat target. Anyway, no, not Scots... rather borderline English, got ancestors from Newcastle.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You must be from the 'Borders' between Scotland and England.. also known as -The Debatable Lands'. Anyhow these lands so much blood spilled through the centuries.
Newcastle also known for the coal fields.
Cheers mate and keep the good work up.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
should read so much blood has been spilled on these lands.......through the centuries..... and for what? 'Scotland's Freedom' and not 'Independence ' Totally 2 different uncompromising idioms!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
That goes for many conflicts...
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Somehow, I do not think that the scots would go naked to the battle 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah gambessons are ok and likely. But hey... let's have some sight for the ladies (and other), too.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
In one word? EPIC! your work is mind-blowing... I'm truly lost for words to describe how amazing your work is, keep up the great work bud!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Thanks a lot. If you look hard you will find that this is actually the rear part of the Battle of Bannockburn main picture. Since it was so huge I built it up step by step. I won't lie, it's been a lot of work, for the end result over a time of half a year almost. But it helped me to improve my overall process for big scenes a lot (mainly how to avoid crashing the Software 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
To be honest I didn't notice it until you pointed it out, probably because of the significant lighting difference between the two renders? nevertheless, both are truly a SUPREME work of art! I can't even imagine spending half a year on a single project, the most I spent was two weeks on a single render "imagination" and it felt like an eternity. I truly applaud your dedication and patience, the results were well worth the effort.
PS: I'm sure you already know about this trick, but I thought I'd mention it anyways in case you don't, in such a scene where you have a lot of distant (as in away from the camera) characters, you can use instances believably and conveniently.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Indeed and just for the record there are about 50 individual characters (not counting horses) and about 5 times the instances in the final plus about a good hundred low resolution character props. Since you did not spot them immediately, I feel vindicated for using them
That was about the limit for the engine, so to speak. Though if you need more you can always use pre-rendered panels as in some of the Arena pictures. But those require extremely careful planning ahead so the perspective and lighting work correctly.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
That's my point! I couldn't spot them no matter how much I tried even though I suspected they were almost definitely used! This just goes to show how masterful this particular render is.
I bought one of the crowd panels off the DS site, haven't had a chance to use them yet, but from previous experience I suspect they'll still look 'alien' to the scene no matter how accurately you place them re the light source nor even how far you put them from the camera...
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I used pre rendered panels a couple of times. If you have a look at this picture:
Mature Content
Only the characters in the front are 3D all the others are pictures on (plane primitive) panels. All spectators in the scenes are panels. There are a several hundred persons there. I simply set up a small number of soldiers and rendered them without background and the correct lighting.
The problems are aligning the panels perspectively correct with the ground and getting a shadow, since they are flat, side light will not work. Actually the panels are not at a right angle to the cam but at about 30 degrees (with the characters rendered from the side so that it does look correct), and the shadow looks better. But if you have a setting with say grass or overcast light, than the ground shadow or alignment is much less difficult. It's a lot of work but if you need really many characters in a well defined setup, it beats instancing, since the latter will still require an original to be instanced from and they fill up geometric memory. And the panels themselves can be instanced, too.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
If I can be brutally honest? the first line of soldiers (especially on the right) is pretty evident that it has no depth, plus one of these guys is probably hovering off the floor or it's an optical trick caused by shadows (which I believe is more likely). Regardless, you've done a commendable job with these panels, the render looks very good.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yes, it is visible. And it was much worse. When I tried it first, I thought it was a perfectly great idea. Boy was I wrong. But I did try to see it through because usually that gives you a lot of insights.
In rear view this stage is probably worst for using panels because of the uneven but well lit floor space. It's absolute perfect for the spectators for example, because the feet are hidden and the shadows negligible. But simply putting a couple real models and instances in the first two or three rows and panel the rest would probably solve it.
It's really a matter of experience and workflow. You need to know beforehand, if the scale of your picture is worth the bother. I'd say that you might need a couple of hundred people to really make panels worth it. That may sound much, but if you take large crowds, city scenes, concerts or sports events, not to mention battles, that's quite possible. And in that case the geometry and calculation even from instances is probitive.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Couldn't agree more, such panels are perfect for spectator-type background characters, thanks for the tips
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Wow - this has a very natural authentic feel! Great work putting 300 soldiers in one image - the result is really cool!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Thanks. As I'm just kicking myself to get the final pictures done, positive feedback helps
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
This is the type of stuff I like to see created inside Daz Studio. It can do so many interesting things besides portraits. The program really has come a long way from its original version. Though I have to say my computer would croak having this much in a scene. Just 4 or 5 fully clothed characters drastically slows down my viewport. I'm sure you used plenty of tricks to get it all to work, but it's very impressive, Magnus.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah I feel the same way. I discovered Daz couple years ago (Genesis 3 had just arrived) and I was impressed by the possibilities given that it was free and once you know what to look for, assets are quite decently priced, especially at Rend, when compared with major 3D players. It can do so much out of the box and I think it's really underrated.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I can only stall for so long. The unwashed crew hammers at the castle gates.
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
Holy Shit! (pardon my french, really!)
This is...
okay, I'm out of superlatives here.
I don't even try to imagine the amount of work that went into this!
And not only is it technically great, but also the composition is massively amazing!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Somewhat naive I guessed that putting a lot of dudes on the field would look epic enough... so as punishment I had to hand place most of them
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well...then I can't wait for what you would call a "final version"! 
In any way I'm admiring your passion, commitment and patience, seriously!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Very cool and epic! The only thing that looks like it could use help is your grass model. Soldiers look cool, lots of variation.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
The grass is relatively simple planes but cheap in ressources for the size. I sometimes put hiqh quality grass in sharp spots, I'll probably do it for the focal points of the final picture.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Planes are fine but you may want something slightly more realistic and varied, maybe a few different kinds. Still great work though
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Wow, that's a crazy amount of people to pose, even if (I assume) there's repeats in the distance.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah, I guess, but I really tried to push to see how far I could go with my setup, to have a frame of reference for other projects. Actually not all people in the scene are turned on because they simply would not have been visible
But yes there's repeats of course. The rate of originals to instances is about 1-5.
is actually the predecessor, and you'll recognize the guys. It's really one project to reach a final picture I have in mind, and it was to complex to do it all in one step.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
How long did it take you just to pull together the poses?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Can't say precisely but I'm actually working on the project for months now. Actual time still at least a couple of days.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Thank you. And thanks for commenting that way I stumbled over your amazing gallery
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
WOW !
What did you to your poor computer ?
The amount of characters is incredible and the composition is very good !
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I cannot tell you.
My lawyer recommended against any pleas of guilty in cases of gross ill-treatment of machinery and wanton abandonment of security protocols.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
well its fantastic ! i dont even imagine how much work and rendering it takes ..but looks really great
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It's like placing a gazillion tin soldiers miniatures... just with lags and crashes
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
well i still admire that you are able to place so many characters... I was trying such scenes long time ago with poser - and only one solution it was rendering separated characters one after one and connecting all in Photoshop...but it was terrible way and effect was very poor . Your scene looks very realistic
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
As much as I like to work with photoshop, I think I would not have been brave enough to try that out
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Amazing. I don't thing my PC would have survived this....
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You just have to remove the eggs when they are well done and put a new batch on the case... look for red hot metal from time to time. Then it's fine!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
| Next =>