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MathildasDoubel — Nordpower 8D
Published: 2011-06-28 09:06:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 1087; Favourites: 22; Downloads: 11
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Description
Ancient Saxons and Denmark had always their conflicts, among others because Denmark is a viking and liked plunder and pillage. Still they influenced each other a lot and Saxony's clan chef Widukind went to exile to Denmark, when they were threatened by the Franks.This picture exists because of a quote of one of my profs.
"Vikings are Saxons with ships...give a Saxon a ship and he's a Viking...steal a Viking his ship and you have a Saxon."
i was like
this refers to fact that their cutures and their everyday life was very alike... the danes still spoke Norse and the Saxons spoke Old Low Saxonian, which is a low German dialect.
a very funny dialect by the way. It sounds so much like English for a German dialect because they didn't have the consonant shift like in high and middle german dialects.
which makes a difference in the way some of the consonants are pronounced or used.
Until the 10th century it was actually closer to Old English than to Old High German and you can still see the similarities in some words.
sleep -slapen- schlafen
go-goen-gehen
have-häwwen/häbben-haben
little -lütt- klein
to- to- zu
It's really sad, that Platt is a dying language, it's so beautiful and cozy...
this axe is totally not A and I don't care about that fact.
Music:
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/D
Like always no politcal intetion just "Yay! History!"-stuff.
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Comments: 21
Saxony was destroyed around 20 years before the Viking age.
The Anglo Saxons are the people the Norse had conflicts with and not all Norse were Vikings.
I don't think the continental Saxons really had that many conflicts with the Norse and between the Norse and the Anglo Saxons, there seemed to be mostly religious difference but respect for each other. The invasions of England is just a story of vengeance that got out of hand and led to more conflict, like the English with the French I suppose.
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this is a 7 years old post, so I can't tell you exactly what my thought process was at the time i was drawing this, but as far as i remember, i was mainly talking about the continental Saxons not the Anglo-Saxons on thr british islands.
The people didn't disappear per se. especially since the Saxons also were a conglomerate of different groups like Chauker, Cherusker...which still continued to settle in the region of westphalia, nowadays Lower Saxony, parts of the Netherlands and Holstein.
Since Saxons and Danes lived in the same area (hence the Saxon urn graves in Haithabu) of course they had a lot of interaction. some of them more friendly than others. Danish Vikings did raid the nowadays Dutch and Low German coasts with led of course to the the raided-ones being not too happy about it. At the same time Haithabu as a centre for trading was interesting for the people around it and so people in the surrounding countryside would of course also go there to work and trade.
However, please keep in mind, that a cute picture of two anime characters is first and foremost meant to be fun and cute and not a 100% correct representation of historical relations.
I don't like killing characters off, so as long there are people of that group of people, I consider the hetalia character still alive.
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If I'm not mistaken, Himaruya has a little chibi sketch of Saxony D:
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But the info is very interesting, right now I'm trying to organize all the germanics in order and OC's, plus how exactly they are related in this huge family.
About England, I thought of Angeln being his direct parent, but after I started thinking of rather England being the Angles himself in his childhood, later being influenced by Frisia, Saxony and Jutland. Plus England in french is Angleterre. That would make Frisia an older sibling to England. v_v So yeah~
And about Denmark, I always thought he was much closer to the other germanics than the rest of scandinavians. His personality sticks out of the constant gloom that Norway and Sweden provide us.
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No. this is not ancient Saxony. there's big different betwen the tribe the Saxons and the free state of Saxony.
well there is still a region in Northern germany called "Angeln", so Angles is still living in germany in my headcanon.
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Quite interesting! So, what would that make his relationship to England be, since England was a product of the invading Jutes, Angles and Saxons?
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and Frisians! don't forget the Frisians! ;_;
In my head canon England is the anglosaxons, means a child out of the relationship between the guys Frisland, Jütland and ancient Saxons and the awesome viking woman Angles. It's not that clear who's the father, so they are all three fathers somehow.
Little Lower Saxony is in head canon the younger brother of Essex and Sussex his other silbling is the Free State of Saxony btw.
He's also in some way related to England, since there was a study a few years ago with the result, that the English people are still genetically closer related to the Germans in northern Germany and the Dutch than they are to the Welsh. X'D
Shows how stubborn our little island inhabitants are. ^^"
The Kingdom of Hannover wasn't Saxon but Cheruskish and probably under stronger Roman influence in the beginnung even though the most people who live in this region since more than 10, 15 generation have more Lower Saxon or Frisian ancestry, so Hannover is not a close blood relative of England, they just had a relatively cold union...Hannover actually still likes england somehow and was relatively okay with being in the english occupation in some way.
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Of course, how could I forget the Frisians? And I think I would have to agree with your headcanon. It makes sense to me. So what would that make modern Germany, Netherlands and Denmark in relation to England? Something like cousins?
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I naively suppose Netherlands is kind of like a cousin.
germany would more be like a extremely younger second or third counsin, I suppose, because germany is not really germanic.
the biggest part of Germany is actually non-germanic...something around celtic and slavic with a tiny bit asian (Mongols) and loads of roman influence. Migration periods and the geographical position make not easy to say. :/
Im not a supporter of the HRE=Germany theory, because HRE was a multi-ethnic state and its political structure was extremely different from the nationalstate Germany.
I'm thinking of "Germany" as the "people who grew up with the German culture and speak German as their native language be the way", at least when i'm talking about the pre-nation time of Germany, after that I using the frontiers as definition of "germany" even though it may not be political correct sometimes.
HRE is for me the brother of France by the way (even though they don't really get along well), because they are the eastern and the western part of the Franconian Empire.
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That is what I figured. I suppose I don't know enough about the entire history of the area that is Germany today to really say, so I would assume your headcanon makes sense. I do agree that HRE and Germany seem to be separate entities, even if they are portrayed as the same in the series, because of different makeup. HRE as a brother to France makes sense; I had always thought of them as cousins since France is also Gaulish and Celtic but I think that brothers could work as well.
Relationships in this sense are so confusing. xD
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yes, France is also Gaulish and Celtic, but the most countries at that time didn't really care for the ethnicity of their people, as long as they were "theirs", they payed taxes and feed their nobles, that's why I think HRE and France are more rivaling brothers.
The relationship between France and Germany in the contrary is very dificult to get a grip, because it has different layers, In my opinion.
There's the open admiration for France cultural achievements, his revolution at the beginning, his phlisophical, anthropoligical and political new thoughts.
Then there was the militarical danger France meant for the single German countries for a long time.
There was the strong liking of the way the French acted and socialised. the french language was the language was the language of the nobles, they often didn't even learn how to speak their mother language. even the famous German fairy-tales were probably strong influenced by the hugenots (some stolen of the south-italians, but what ever) who exiled en masse during the french wars of religion.
There's the fear after seeing france snap during the Grande Terreur.
generally both nations feared and fought with each other, both did terrible things to each other, but they still also influenced each other in a positive way.
Sometimes I have the feeling their relationship is something you can call "slibling rivalry" in the broadest sence of the word, with Germany being the extremely younger silbling/cousin/whatever, sometimes I thing the relationship between Germany and France is close to a neglecting!Father aggressive!child relationship...it's complicated. ;_;
Germany himself is very interesting as a character, because he has these two sides. At one side he's acting extremely submissive and obedient he's normally someone that tries to find a consent and usually he's not the type that begins to strike just because of the heck of it but at the other side when he loses his temperament it get extremely dirty and hurtful for all involved including himself.
I think both of these behaviours are triggered with fear and an uncertainty about his own indentity, which leads him to either hide, act like a more or less brainless yes-sayer or going over the top with his feeling of national indentity.
Even his "We now get things done even if I have to do it by force" has to do with fear in the thought of "they (aka France) won't ignore me, because ignoring hurts", "I'm useful, so they need me, so they leave me be,because fights hurt me at least economically", "We have to get these things done now because what happens when we don't do it scares me".
Yeah good old Luddie is an interesting character and France is the person he had the most friction surface with if you go by history, so you can make beautiful character studies of both characters while trying to figur out the structure of their relationship.
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That is very complicated and intriguing history. I think the dynamics between the two are rather interesting, and I find it interesting how they had such influence over one another, particularly France to the HRE. It is particularly fascinating to me because my father's family predominately came from the areas around Wurttemburg and Ardennes, so it is neat to see the history around those areas in connection.
I think you describe Ludwig's personality very well in relation to Germany. I can see that aspect of two sides to his personality. I think many of the nations on some level, like all humans, would strive for their identity, and he would be a rather prime example considering a lot of complications in his relations and history.
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thank you. I'm glad you like it. ^^
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I don't forget them sweetie.
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Platt is a dying language?
I know plattdeutsch (plattgerman) is a dialect in northern germany o:
their speakers are very proud and happy to teach others <3
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it's not a dialect it's an own language.
But seriously a lot of the younger people don't speak it, because in the 60ies there was a campaign to not teach the children platt.
Since the granparent's generation didn't teach the parent's ganeration how to speak platt, it's not the native laguage of the people in my age but a second language...often they just speak with a accent and not the language as an own language.
i love it though. my granma always speaks plaqtt to me...i sometimes have problems to understand it, when she speaks too fast, but it#s such a beautiful language. <3~
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I thought it was a dialect. just like saxon or colonian. .. whatever
du lebst auch in deutschland?
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ja, ich leb auch in Dtld.
nee, Plattdeutsch ist im Prizip ne eigene Sprache und kein Dialekt, aber frag mich jetzt bitte nicht, wieso das hängt irgendwie mt der Sprachstruktur zusammen...Ich bin kein Linguist. Allerdings sprechen viele heute die Sprache nur wie einen Dialekt und nicht wie eigene Sprache, weshalb manche sagen dass Platt langsam eine sterbende Sprache wird und zu einem gewöhnlichen Dialekt wird.
Was auf jedenfall ein Untershciedzwischen Kölnerisch, Sächsisch und Plat ist, ist dass Platt wenn ein Dialekt dann auf jeden Fall ein niederdeutscher ist, während die anderen beiden hochdeutsche Dialekte sind.
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Ich wollt grad sagen: was is der unterschied zwischen dialekt und sprache? Was war zuerst da - huhn oder ei? |D
... Naja, was ich sagen will: bevor es überhaupt Landesgrenzen gab, gab es fliessende Übergänge, was man vor allem in der Sprache bemerkt. Es gibt sicher eine Menge zwischensprachen oder dialekte zwischen französisch - deutsch, niederländisch - deutsch, etc
(wobei niederländisch einem manchmal vorkommt wie ein mix aus englisch und deutsch)
Das ist vor allem interessant, wenn man mal ganz weit in der Geschichte zurückgeht. Ich befasse mich im Moment ja auch mit den "Ancients" (Also Rom, Germania, Gallien und so)
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