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MetaLatias5 In reply to Mnlws [2018-10-11 01:05:31 +0000 UTC]

"chaos moves in one direction"
isn't the essence of chaos to be, well, chaotic? chaos isn't a straight line, it's not even one line, it's a whirr, a tangle of wires, it is neither good nor evil although it is viewed as bad by most due do it being at least an inconvenience most of the time

I admit that judging from what we were able to see from Golb, he might be the most destructive chaos god I've sen so far, but he isn't the only being of chaos I know and what I've learned from watching chaos god after chaos god is that they thrive on being unpredictable, not on destruction, they seek 'fun' in their own twisted ways, not the extinction of life (THAT would be the Lich's territory)

So I'm fairly certain that a chaos god that takes lifes could technically bring them back as well, likely even in an altered form

And if you sprinkle some of Betty's love for Simon on that ability, you get Golbetty protecting Simon and giving him back his lost loved ones

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Mnlws In reply to MetaLatias5 [2018-10-11 02:12:27 +0000 UTC]

That's a common misconception, but that whirr, as you artistically describe it, is more descriptive of the random nature of reality as a whole, of which chaos is one aspect. Most popular chaos gods in fiction, assuming you're referring to the likes of Bill Cipher, Discord, etc., actually embody improbable chance. They don't like being controlled by rules so they defy them by bringing about the improbable or otherwise impossible. This randomness does fit the colloquial standard of chaos, i.e. being unpredictable. Actual, physical chaos on the other hand is much the opposite of that; it can be described a result of the path of highest probability: the natural breakdown of structured order. Order is composed of systems of specific configuration, and since there are more ways for a system's components to be out of that configuration than in it, probability gradually guides it from a state of order to one of disorder (that's the law of entropy). While that probability does still allow systems of order to arise and even maintain themselves, the net result is always dissolution. That is the chaos that GOLB embodies. That's why all of its actions are destructive. Not out of malice or even necessarily intent (as you said, it's not good or evil), but simply because it is that process of the breakdown of order. (That's also why the music was able to locally disturb it, as order was imposed upon the chaos, and why the effects didn't last long, as the chaos overtook the order as always.)

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MetaLatias5 In reply to Mnlws [2018-10-11 17:11:41 +0000 UTC]

That makes sense, thanks

I guess it is likely then that Golbetty wouldn't really be possible or probable to simply be turned around and have her learn how to control Golbs power since it might not be something controllable at all, it seems more like a condensed natural force this way, almost like how death wouldn't be able to control whether or not he kills what he touches

I'll still continue to draw whatever cute or funn ideas I might come up with, for enjoyment, but I believe I do have a bit of a better understanding now, thanks for that

Also I was thinking more of Discord and Chaos (Aladdin)
I dont really see bill as a chaos god, he's more of a chaos-invested (?) Dream-demon with incrddible magic abilitiws in the corporeal world

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Mnlws In reply to MetaLatias5 [2018-10-11 18:04:33 +0000 UTC]

Oh, by all means keep up the adorable fanart. I'm certainly not going to complain about seeing my favorite characters being happy.

I thought about listing Chaos, but decided against it since I'm not familiar enough with him to be certain that he supported my argument. And you're definitely right about Bill. The others exist with their powers naturally, while his domain is more self-appointed. But most people do consider him to be in that group, and he was therefore the most obvious example I could think of.

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MetaLatias5 In reply to Mnlws [2018-10-11 20:07:10 +0000 UTC]

The others were 'born' as chaos gods, Bill made himself one XD

Chaos I think mainly embodies the unpredictability-part of chaos since the one time he appeared in the show he was all about things being unpredictable  (although the outcome of him creating evil doublegangers of Aladdin and Genie would be relatively predictable by todays standards I think)

I think the biggest difference between Golb and Discord/Chaos/Bill is that the latter three have an actual personality, they act and react obviously consciously while Golb hardly if at all took notice of anyone, all we saw Golb 'actively' do was open its mouth to release that chaos mist that turned the cake-army into a monster and pull its tongue in and close its mouth when Ice King and Betty fell on its tongue (also it followed Finn with its gaze when he avoided Golb in Puhoy, but that's it)
we don't get to see Golb emote, we don't hear it speak, we hardly see it do anything and that's a huge difference compared to the chaos beings we've gotten before

(also I appologize if there were any typos in my last reply since I typed it on my phone in a hurry)

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Mnlws In reply to MetaLatias5 [2018-10-12 03:02:09 +0000 UTC]

I think that that difference also exemplifies the different interpretations of chaos that they represent. Keeping in mind that Golb's chaos is in the physical sense, I have a couple different explanations as to why it seems so passive.

The first is simply that it doesn't think at all. Thought is a very complex process, and embodying chaos may prevent it from having a mind and thereby personality of any kind. If this is the case, then it very much is just a force of nature with no real will, and all of its actions are just consequences of its presence or unconscious responses to stimuli.

Alternatively, it might have a mind by the same paradoxical manner in which it has a body. In that case, one has to consider what its experience is. It embodies chaos on a multiversal level, which means that its existence is almost certainly eternal and is comprised of it witnessing things end. It would therefore have no sense of urgency, knowing that all things fall to chaos eventually. That's why it never did anything in Ooo other than exhaling, as it knew that that was sufficient. Additionally, it knows that all things fall to chaos with or without its direct involvement. I think that such an existence would make it the ultimate nihilist, as it not only sees no purpose in the insignificant actions of mortals, but also in its own actions, as the result is the same regardless of whether or not it acts. 

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MetaLatias5 In reply to Mnlws [2018-10-12 08:50:51 +0000 UTC]

I have a third theory.
Remember when Jake called Golb a big baby?
While I think that it's most likely it simply doesn't think and it's just an embodyment of a natural force, I think it's worth considering that it might actually just be a baby.
It's not unthinkable that some eldritch gods undergo a growing process like other creatures, except that they're 'born' at the creation point of the universe and don't die of old age unless the universe does as well. So by the time of Ooo's existence, due to its unimaginably huge lifespan, Golb might just still be a baby-embodyment of chaos. That would definitely explain why it's not showing conscious thought and mostly just reacting to stimuli.
I don't know if it was maybe just because she'd been standing upright, but to me Golbetty even looked quite a bit taller and 'adult-proportioned' than Golb did on its own, because when Golb fused with her, an adult woman, it took on a more adult physical shape as well.

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Mnlws In reply to MetaLatias5 [2018-10-13 01:11:36 +0000 UTC]

I've heard of that one as well. I think it's a really well-thought and clever concept, and takes the entity in a brilliantly unexpected direction, but I do have one issue with it. Golb exists on a multiversal scale, so if it ages with the multiverse then it is to be inferred that the multiverse has a specific lifespan, and is therefore finite. Of course this could be the case within the context of Adventure Time, but it is something that would need to be directly stated, or at least more strongly implied, before I would buy it.

I agree that the first explanation is the most likely, but I think the other two are more interesting, in terms of implications and story and character potential. 

(I've just realized that we've passed the page-display threshold. This is an important milestone for a conversation.  )

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MetaLatias5 In reply to Snowflake-owl [2018-09-21 10:08:03 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

I could try, I was having problems accessing my discord account for some time, but I think I just managed to get back on it

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MetaLatias5 In reply to poker10403 [2018-09-20 00:09:45 +0000 UTC]

Me too, although I like the fact that not everyone got a classic happy ending, AT's driven home that the world's just not fair sometimes, not everyone's gonna have a happy ending, even if they deserve it, it's a lesson that needs to be learned... but at the same time they left the ending open enough for us to continue the adventures however we want

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poker10403 In reply to MetaLatias5 [2018-09-20 00:32:48 +0000 UTC]

same

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