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mjranum — Naughty Schoolgirls
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Published: 2011-07-22 17:18:27 +0000 UTC; Views: 14909; Favourites: 143; Downloads: 839
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This is another of my attempts to visually ponder the question "what is 'naughty'?" especially in an image. Here, I've put some of the "naughty" in by having the girls pose in their particular state of undress. And a little more "naughty" is added by Lucy's cocked eyebrow and pout. So maybe I can say 30% of the naughty came from me, but the rest? Did I give you a naughty idea? Or did you already have it, just waiting to come out?In truth, I think it's a silly question, for all that it's amusing to ask. It seems to me that our notions of what is shocking or tasteless or even good and evil are just verbal handles that we use to drag our own preferences into a discussion without having to admit how much of them is simply personal opinion.
This is why I absolutely scoff at things like "mature content" filters. There are no bare tits or asses in this picture, but it's probably more "mature" content (whatever that is!) than a boring 'art nude' of Natalya sitting on a rock with her hair down, one toe in the water, and a bit of thigh and buttock showing. Once again, "mature content" seems to be an attempt to codify "stuff I don't like" objectively (or maybe "stuff that gives me a thrill") so as to shield others from seeing what we like/dislike before we think they are old enough/young enough to "handle it" (whatever that means). Ironically, if you showed this image to a very young person - maybe 4 or 5 - they might not catch the reference with the panties and would just think this is a picture of a couple friends. Thus, context is everything but the context that's in your own head is part of that everything.
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Comments: 42
Interesting study. For me the theme is enriched by the footwear which I especially fetishized during my school days.
Under another ID here I have been experimenting with some very direct sexual images. One image, basically of a spread open woman's ass was attacked by a female commenter, once again invoking the "erotic/artistic" v "pornographic" dichotomy. Naturally I figured I was up against another moralizing ideologue. But after some conversation with her it turned out that the erotic content didn't really bother her (as long as I made no big claims for its artistry) but rather she was bothered that a comparable image involving the male body would probably be censored. Not a wrinkle on the whole discussion that I was ready for.
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It's so interesting to hear that you fetishized the footwear. I always liked the knife-pleated skirts. Weird, huh?
rather she was bothered that a comparable image involving the male body would probably be censored.
She may be right. I suppose I could get my macro lens mounted on my camera and find out, but I'm not sure that I want to reveal that particular aspect of myself.
As someone who does not support any controls on content, I obviously would agree that a comparable image shouldn't be censored. But that's probably a different axis on the problem.
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HA... Great Image! I'm still waiting to shoot them together! Very nicely done... I believe I have Lucy being naughty somewhere in my gallery! 
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Lucy really does naughty amazingly well!
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Nice thats exactly who I thought it was. Cool beans
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I think the issue is the difference between explicit and implicit. Here the naughtiness is highly impliciit.
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That sounds so easy, but when you start trying to define those terms more closely, it's probably not such a clean dividing line..
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I have no need to blame models or photographers for my naughty thoughts. I can develop and enjoy them all on my own. How I choose to behave based on my thoughts is my own responsibility. Lack of personal responsibility seems to be epidemic and at the same time the morality police wish to adjust our society so issues of personal responsibility are moot. Seems a rather dangerous combination to me.
Peace, love and Light
Rory
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OMG. Another person who accepts responsibility for their actions? I thought I was the only one on earth!
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As I've heard said many times before, "Lead me not into temptation, I can find it all by myself"
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Blindfold me and lead me into temptation, that I may grab as much of it as possible!
Or, just give me the GPS coordinates and I'll head on over, myself. It's all good.
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tbh i didn't even think that was panties in her hand until i read the descript.
and 100% agreed, what makes things wrong, rude, naughty, or racist?
its all in context, purpose, and the third party reasoning, to me "coon" is a term for a "raCOON" to many, its a racial slur.
i'd never use it in that purpose, and can't foresee myself doing so, but i'm forbidden to use the term due to the negative response it garners (despite i actually work with a guy who's name actually is coon, no joke, spelled that way too. White dude, bald head, and his last name is coon... reminds me of the dave chappelle sketch really)
its all in our heads man, all in our heads. just be careful though, thinking like that may offend someone to the point where somehow they could sue you... dunno how, when, or why, but such thoughts are criminal these days it seems.
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I'm not too concerned about a lawsuit. Criminal prosecution is another matter. I've probably already done some images that would have gotten me sent to the stake a couple hundred years ago.
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The title you gave to it is obviously a large part of the naughtiness we see, so you gave us much more than 30%. Titles are the first impression, not to be underestimated in their suggestive power. If you'de have called this shot "my daughter and her best friend", it would've been a whole other ballpark.
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You're right - titles are amazingly powerful!
If I'd titled it "my daughter and her best friend" I wonder what reaction I'd have gotten. OMG!
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They're naughty because they were smoking out behind the football field!
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I don't think there's anything wrong with content filters. You question what it means to "handle" mature artwork. If you want an example of people who CAN'T handle that sort of thing, look no further than DeviantArt. Most people would post ignorant comments on something considered mature.
Let's not kid ourselves, having an opinion isn't always a good or bad thing. Having an opinion that's contrary to what everybody else thinks doesn't always mean something bad, and having the same opinion as everybody else isn't always a good thing. When I look at this image, the "naughty" I notice is extremely subtle: The girl on the left has her ankles tied together, loosely. It's easy to miss. In a sense, the word "schoolgirl" itself has become naughty. We associate it with naughty things. The internet has seen to that. But, not everybody sees it that way, and not everybody should.
When it comes to opinions, people forget something extremely helpful: "There's a time and a place for everything." If all we do is display our opinions openly and without tact, grace, or concern for others, we just have pure anarchy, a complete lack of social order, and despite what some people think, we do need order. I've met too many people who claim to be "brutally honest." They act like saying whatever they want is some enlightened way of being, like they're better than everybody else. The truth is, they're just "honestly brutal." They display their opinions freely, but in an extremely irresponsible way, without regard for how much they hurt the people around them. Some people are too sensitive. Some people are too insensitive. Both these people forget, there's a time and a place for everything. A time and a place for displaying your opinion. A time and a place for shutting the fuck up. A time and a place for being proper... and, a time and a place for being naughty.
Right here, right now, is a good time and a good place for you to post this photo. And, right here and now, it's a good time and place for me to post my opinion.
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How do you determine what is "proper" and how do you tell that from a personal opinion?
For most of the history of the world, what you're advocating is a social consensus is really not - it's the personal opinion(s) of the powerful and privileged. What you see as 'the social order' is dictated. Where else do these arbiters of correctness come from? In cases where it's been left to a consensus forming (as in, the internet) the guardians of correctness tend to be fighting a rear-guard battle - which means that they're actually not part of the consensus, they're trying to enforce their idea of the consensus that used to hold yesterday.
With respect to people posting 'ignorant' comments - that's hardly what I'd call harm. Childish behavior is what children do; so what? And, acting dismissive and paternal about it isn't necessarily good/better, either.
Even if I agreed with you that there's a time and a place for everything, who decides when and where it is?
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...dude... relax. I can't help but feel a fun discussion has suddenly turned into finger-pointing. I say "there's a time and a place for everything," and suddenly it feels like you're calling me a damn Nazi. Agree or disagree, your response just seems inappropriately vicious...
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Nah, you're just being thin-skinned. It's about the ideas - nothing personal.
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"Thin-skinned." That's awfully judgmental of you...
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I could be wrong, but I dont' think that's her ankles tied together so much as it's her panties rolled down around her ankles (hence the artist's indication that the girls are each in some state of 'undress').
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Ah, whoops, my mistake!
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to me lucy appears fully naughty with her cocked eyebrow, head tilt, perky nipples, sway back sticking her chest out and her hips forward, bend in the left wrist... while the girl on the left has a much lesser degree of naughtiness standing straight, just barely open mouth and something that looks like panties around her ankles! i suppose the panties around the ankles should make her look naughtier than lucy, but somehow she looks like maybe she is reluctantly naughty. lucy on the other hand probably doesn't even need to pose - she is naughty. as indicated by the first comment, you provoke very strong feeling in people with you art. although i found your clown series intriguing, this i like better. after all, art should be provoking emotions, positive and negative alike.
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It is funny, I interpret it the same way. If I were looking at this image as a complete stranger, I'd think Lucy'd seduced Natalya...
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picture worth a 1000 words...
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What's just popped into my head, now that you mention it, is that watermarks and naughtiness-barriers insert more information to the image-transaction than they remove from the author/audience transaction. They reduce the quality of information exchange by an order of respect and trust -- not always without valid reason, but in often ways that reflect the corruption of an ill-defined covenant.
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Good point - I hadn't thought of that. It is an intrusion.
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I've always believed that mature content filters brake the flow of useful information to minds that need it most; reflecting an hypocritical dysfunction in a system that also relies on watermarks to maintain the illusion of authorial proprietary control of content, while degrading its apprehension by all viewers. None of that bears on precensorship, but all of it is intimately related to exclusion, reduction in value, and compromised/conflated intents of parties whose needs and agendas are markedly dissimilar; model, photographer, viewer, administrator, lawyer. I'd like most to know how to stoke the creative fires of the shooters and models I follow, no two of whom (I suspect) would match, if their cravings were explicitly articulated; which they aren't.
This single image has given me lots of juicy junk to chew at. Thanks!
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I guess the big difference is that this image does evoke specific connotations that are culturally coded but if you're not able to read it's cultural code due to a lack of experience than there is not much naughty about it. Showing primary or secondary sex is universal I guess and thus doesn't require the ability do decode cultural knowledge; but still I like your point.
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Aaah, finally a fetish I can relate to again!
I don't know why, but the "Forced Clown" series was just unbearably creepifying to me . . . I couldn't even LOOK at them. Weird that confronted with something genuinely horrific like the "And Then the Bad Things Happened" ambrotype, my reaction was pure awe and admiration of its visceral power, but a little damn clown paint sent shudders of revulsion clear through me.
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That is really interesting!!! So, in a sense my clown experiment paid off - I was wondering how someone who was horrified of clowns would react to a "forced clown" fetish. And now I know.
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You know, I'm not actually "horrified of clowns" ordinarily . . . but clowns with overtly sexual/fetish overtones? That really, really creeped me out. It's like it pulled a scab off I didn't even know was there.
You have a fascinating subconscious, Marcus.
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Thank you. It's kind of odd living in my head.
Much of it isn't subconscious. Actually, I am extremely aware and deliberate about almost everything I do - I generally can tell you the origins of every idea/thought I have that's worth remembering. So not only is it noisy up here, it's cluttered.
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