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NashD1 — SexyMonolophosaurus
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Published: 2017-02-02 20:03:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 416; Favourites: 19; Downloads: 2
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My book is here!! Dinosaur Enlightenment: Piercing the Veil on Kaiju Dinosaur in an Age of Disruption. link: www.amazon.com/Dinosaur-Enligh…Kill it!! Kill it with fire!! From my post on lips, beaks, and the squishy stuff in between: antediluviansalad.blogspot.com…
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Comments: 27
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Very interesting and freaking weird. Makes you wonder if games like Saurian will start to change some things
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Odd is the new normal these days.
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Yes, and since non-avian theropods are so different from most animals alive today, of course they would look weird.
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Oh god, I'd never expect my meme to end up on a paleo blog
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Was that your meme about the mask? I think its adorable!!
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Yep 
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Interesting thoughts, gives the possibilty for a whole lot of different reconstructions depending on where you sit in the evolutionary tree. This is in line with your SIGIL-hypothesis I suppose because if feathers are basal for Dinosauria you wouldn't end up with lizard lips at all? Depends of course on how feathery the common ancestor of dinosaurs was if it was feathery.
I never looked at how puffins have such a colourfull mouth corner, gives good ideas for some bits of colour in (beaked) non-avian dinosaurs.
About your idea of beaks evolving from dinosaurs looking for stuff in water: you might be interested in Archaeornithura meemannae. It's the oldest Ornithuromorph that gave rise to true birds and because it shows to be a wading bird (=searching for food in water) it might be worth investigating a bit. On the other hand, Confusciornithidae aren't part of that and already had a beak...
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I have been thinking about feeding in the water, especially straining/filtering/dabbling might create the impetus to evolve beaks. Maybe in pterosaurs, ornithomimids others...
As far as feathers being basal for dinosaur I'm up in the air. Part of the premise is that a feather coat completely covered an animals face, the feathers retract leaving naked skin. I suggested that sauropods and theropods close to the sauropod/ theropod split did have true lizard lips. Chilesaurus does not have evidence of a "beak" and it is the most basal herbivorous theropod so perhaps it did have true tight fitting lizard lips.
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Ah, I see.
So I guess that meat curtains are most likely in Coelurosauria only then?
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Well not exactly and it's hard to ascribe set in stone rules, also depends on when feathers arose as they may have cleared up scales off the face. Sorry not really able to specify things too well. For me I am leaning towards meat curtains in the more hyper predatory theropods that had to engage head on with large animals: tyrants, allos, carchs, ceratosaurs, dromaeosaurs. Theropods that started to pick up small animals & fish may had more tightly keratinized snouts: spinos, small prey dromaeosaurs, dilophosaurs, enenlagines. Of course there might be a blending of the two morphs; I think abelisaurids had more keratinized upper lips but more fleshy lower lips.
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So still quite some variety possible...
Oh well, it'll definitely have its influences when drawing theropods from time to time, I think. Looking forward to the next post!
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right, variety is very probable. Indeed I can imagine animals like Dilophosaurus and Sinosaurus having exposed croc like portions towards the tip i.e. tooth rosette and more fleshy lip structures towards the rear of the jaw. The reason I mentioned Chilesaurus is that it is the earliest known herbivorous theropod yet it does not have a beak but large front teeth, it more fits the pattern of herbivorous lizards/sauropods that never evolved beaks therefore I think basally there were true lizard lipped theropods at some point. However as soon as theropods started messing around with feathers - and therefore potentially losing scales on the face and around the oral margin - that lizard lip morphology was replaced by more fleshy or keratinized oral margins. This transition could have occurred fairly early in theropods. I did consider the tooth pocket design as Saurian depicts their T. rex I just am leery about how much jiggle would be in the lower lip area and if during bites the lower lip would get in the way of the shearing upper dentition. If you plop that lower lip lateral and inferiorly as I depict that problem is solved. A theropod with such lip morphology may have looked eerily like a canid during rapid jaw closures. However if that tooth pocket design was less floppy i.e. had a rim of scales and perhaps supporting gingiva that prevented such flop i could see the tooth pocket design being possible especially in basal theropods.
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Good idea for Dilophosaurus. The only thing I had thought about that could make sense was no lips at all or only lips on the upper jaw and nothing on the lower one.
Couldn't it be carnosaurs had scaly lips too if there weren't lots of feathers in that clade? Only thing we have is Concavenator with its possible quill knobs.
For Saurian I know they based it on monitor lizards because their "lips" are stiff, but I don't know if that's because of the scales on top of it or because the flesh in the "lips" is stiff too. I bet you're going to talk about that in the next post?
Yeah, that canid feeling got immediately aired when you posted your Hellhound rex for the first time. The head-shaking drawing based on dog pictures had that scary/adorable feel
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"Couldn't it be carnosaurs had scaly lips too if there weren't lots of feathers in that clade?"
Could be… can't rule it out.
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Feathers being basal in dinosaurs is quite likely, what with pterosaur pycnofibers increasingly considered homologous to feathers.
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I know, and that Tapejarid with its branched fibers seems to point at that really hard. I was just wondering about how feathery the common ancestor could be so you'd still end up with lizard lips in some species and meat curtains in others.
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Are those feathers, or just featherlike structures?
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