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natiawarner — American Pit Bull XLVVI
Published: 2009-10-03 15:25:52 +0000 UTC; Views: 2163; Favourites: 47; Downloads: 12
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Description
my latest family member
CUDA - 3mth-old female A.P.B.T
SIRE: ZAGREV
DAM: MISSY
This is her all grown up now:
1. conditioned (summer) -
2. not so conditioned (winter) -
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Comments: 107
Lovely!! I love pit bulls!! check out my gallery if you like! I am the photographer for our local animal shelter, and all we get is pit bulls and staffy's
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oh. that`s really sad! I just can`t understand how ppl would just dump dogs like this... Guess they`re just tooo popular (in a bad way) there. Here shelters are full of German Shepherds or GSD mixes, but no APBTs thank god...otherwise my yard would be probably suffocated by rescuees lol
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Beautiful pup.
I noticed that she lacks the scars sported by many of the other dogs in your gallery.
Tell me, will she be spared from having the shit ripped out of her in the ring? Or is she a future blood sport champion?
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I'm a little confused with your statement here...I looked at this person's gallery and haven't seen any dog with scars on them from dog fighting! To me it does not seem that they use these dogs for fighting but rather for breeding!
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You are perfectly right...I do not fight dogs, but ppl just get really hot around the topic
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Can someone please explain me what is so fun about seeing one dog kill another one, when they could be happy pets if you idiots never were born.
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i believe it is not fun...it is quite disturbing if you see it on TV, not to mention live... (been there, done that - seeing it i mean)
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She really is beautiful..
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Thank you! But she is all grown up now ^^
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maybe you should learn the sport before judging it
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Hmmm, let see...Maybe we can put you with two other men...you can be the bait...how does that sound??
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A.. sport? A SPORT? You are disgusting.
There is nothing you have to learn.
I am sure that karma will come around and bite you in the ass, and I sincerely hope that karma isn't the only thing ripping you to shreds. All I can do is hope that the world will soon be rid of pathetic abusers like you.
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I am not sure if the comm was for me or for the ppl above that posted some of their ideas...
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Forcing two "lesser creatures" into a pit to rip the bejesus out of each other isn't a damn sport. It's barbaric. Tell me: How many dogs have you massacred in your lifetime?
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If your question was for me, I`d have to say none
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I'll judge any sport that forces dogs to attack each other.
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The sport of DOG FIGHTING?
Maybe in Russia its allowed to be called that. Here in the states its called "illegal" and "animal abuse."
Ones man's pleasure is another man's idea of a sick fucking twist.
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there's a huge difference between a dogman and a dog fighter, hun.
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Maybe you should do your research, "hun".
Many of the dogs posted in this gallery belong to or are associated with KNOWN dog fighters in Russia.
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It's June, 2011... I'm wondering if you've gotten less stupid in the year plus since you posted this!
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For all that it's worth, what is the glory of teaching your dog to kill another dog?
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You don't have to teach them anything...
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That's right, all you have to do is use dogs who are wired wrong in the head and constantly breed that back into the bloodline over and over and over until you have a dog that could never be walked in public because of its dangerous disposition.
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If you look at it that way, sure. But most of the folks who own these dogs don't care if they can walk their dogs in public. Why would you want to?
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If a dog is truly your friend, companion, and part of your family- it should be a RESPECTABLE dog, not just something where you throw its life away like it's honestly no big deal.
I walk my mastiff mix in public all the time for socialization skills. I WANT him to be friendly toward people and other dogs. So far he has no problems except he is afraid of small children running up to him too quickly.
Why would you want to obtain a dog just to torture it and hide it away under lock and key?
I've had pitbulls in the past and the last one I had was a rescue dog. She was used as a bait dog for your horrible "fun and games" called dog fights. Even after the trauma she suffered, she could be walked in public and loved everyone who dared to bend down to pet her. She showed her love for people by showering them with kisses and adoration, even after that same creature is what almost killed her.
That pitbull also never had problems with other dogs except ones that were even slightly aggressive. If there was another dog her size or larger that even dared to growl at her, she would find herself fleeing to hide behind any humans around and sometimes she even piddled because of such horrible memories.
Does that sound awesome to you? That sounds like a rough life and a very abusive one if you ask me!
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I stopped reading when use said "bait dog". Real dogmen do not use them. That is for thugs and losers. Because really, why would a dogman with a good dog need bait animals? It teaches the dog nothing. That would be like telling Mike Tyson to practice fighting by beating up little kids. It doesn't do any good.
And I get my dogs for ME, to do what I want them to do. Not the public, not anybody else. Also, my dogs aren't people. They are dogs. Animals. Possessions of mine. Like animals have been for centuries. 
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I run a farm thank you
My dog does whatever it is I require him to do without strict punishment, without physical harm to him, and for the most part, without having to be yelled at. On occasion he'll meander off and require a good shout to regain his attention, other than that, he just does what he should do.
I love bringing him to places. He is more than just an animal, something that you can be heartless about and throw away when you're done.... he's my pride and joy.
Don't like that I actually treat animals with respect and consider them more than just PETS? Too fucking bad.
Just because it's an animal doesn't mean we should treat them any less than what we would treat other human beings.
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"Don't like that I actually treat animals with respect and consider them more than just PETS? Too fucking bad."
I think you can treat your dogs however you want. And I think you should extend that same right to me.
Also, what makes you think fighting dogs try to harm people, much less their own owners? With very few exceptions, history's fighting dogs were very people friendly.
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You know, people keep saying that you are full of shit and are cruel, mean, and inhumane... But judging by your calm attitude and educated comments, I'm more inclined to believe you.
The comment that won me over for you was your comment about baiting, how it's for thugs and not dogmen.
I don't like Dog fighting and pitting, don't get me wrong... but I also believe that it's a sport, just as horse racing, dog racing, bull/lion/pig/bear baiting, and boxing. And I know for a fact that it was at least a respectable sport. It MADE the breeds we know and love today.
The APBT is a gorgeous breed, and if it wasn't for the sport of dog fighting, it wouldn't be here today. And, although I dislike dog fighting I understand that in order to maintain the true nature and beautiful pedigree of an APBT, you must plunge it into the true test. Otherwise, it will become and horrendous and ugly as the German Shepherd has here in America due to lack of rules requiring the breed to pass Schutzhund in order to breed.
I hope what you say is true, because I've only ever witnessed American pit fighting, and it's disgusting. I hope that it's true that you don't mistreat your animals and you do provide good medical attention and few animals actually die. If this is so, I respect the sport more for remaining as clean as it possibly can. And, regardless, I respect you, but I respect you more if you're the honest, clean, responsible person that you say you are.
To the incoming flamers reading my comment:
I told the man I respect him and the sport, but remember that respect does NOT mean like. I don't KNOW the man, and I certainly don't KNOW the sport, so how can I possibly say whether I truly like or dislike it? I KNOW I hate American Pitting, but that's because I've witnessed the sights and smells of this cruel sport before my very eyes, not through a television or on sheets of book-paper or youtube.com. If you want to become a wise and well-educated person, prepare yourself to approach a controversial comment with an open-mind and a thirst for knowledge and understanding of cultures and point of views other than your own.
Thank you.
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"Otherwise, it will become and horrendous and ugly as the German Shepherd has here in America due to lack of rules requiring the breed to pass Schutzhund in order to breed."
I don't know why I'm even wasting my time to come back and post here, but I couldn't let this one go.
If you think "passing Schutzhund" is the standard by which good dogs are judged in this breed... then god love you, that's a BOLD statement.
If not a blatantly false one.
Schutzhund is what's helping to ruin this breed, just as much if not more so than what any show breeders are doing in the states.
It has become a sport. A high dollar sport. Some of the worst dogs I've seen in this breed have been dogs I've observed on the Sch field. The worst of the American bred dogs have my pity. The worst of the worklines have my disgust.
But this has nothing to do with dog fighting or the disturbed faction who partake in it. So I digress.
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Please, explain to me how Schutzhund is ruining the breed if German Shepherds were created under the foundation of schutzhund training. Before schutzhund they were just a bunch of mutts that dealt with sheep. They had no standard.
Give me an example of the worst dogs YOU have observed on the schutzhund field. I will then give you examples of the WORST dogs I have seen, bred by inexperienced breeders and back yard breeders with no concern of the health issues, temperament issues, and defects, all of which are passed down to their offspring. Then, I will show you the BEST dogs I have seen, two of which I've owned. Sch II registered, imported from Germany, lived and died with sound minds, body, and spirit.
Your comment confuses me, honestly. If you think SPORTS don't make a breed or they worsen a breed, then consider the border collie, pit bull, golden retriever, Labrador retriever, pointer, bulldog, terriers, greyhounds, and some 500 other breeds of dogs that exist and have existed in the past, disgusting and a disgrace to all that is canine.
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Schutzhund being a SPORT is what is ruining them.
GSDs were not bred TO COMPETE in Schutzhund trials. That's nonsense. Schutzhund was created AFTER the breed was founded, as a preliminary test to gauge the basic workability of the dogs. None of this is new information. Read von Stephaniz's book if you need details.
Schutzhund was never meant to be a competition. It was never meant to have a "winner" and a "loser", or a "World Champion." Today, many of these so-called "working" dog breeders are breeding animals to score big in Schutzhund. Allow me to inform... scoring big in Schutzhund means about as much as scoring big in Agility, or Flyball, or Obedience. In that while those things are nice, and its fine for people to want to participate in them and be proud of their accomplishments, it doesn't tell you how good or bad a dog will be. ESPECIALLY if we're talking about actual working dogs. Watch someone train a PPD, then compare to someone training in Sch. You'll see me point quickly enough. Better yet, look at the type of DOG who could even BE a PPD, then look at a top winning Sch dog. Again, my words cannot do that comparison justice.
Schutzhund as a sport is all about prey dive. More, more, more prey drive. "Extreme" prey drive, as the breeders like to advertise. What a joke. "Cat killers", "prey monsters", "no off swtich"... all labels that this breed NEVER used to be plagued with, but are now all too commonly assigned. Its a tragedy, and NOT a trend started by the Americans. They have their own set of problems, but don't you assume for one second that the Germans don't have JUST as many.
Me personally? I've seen some pretty sad shit. Watched a dog so neurotic, so revved up on prey drive, but so LACKING in substance that he couldn't handle the pressure of pre-trail training, and turned out to attack a bystander on the field.
Watched a dog so bat-shit insane over a ball that he tore open his handler's hand trying to get it.
Watched another prey dog who couldn't cope with the intensity of its own drive, that it literally screamed when with anticipation every time the handler took it out. Not even an electric could stop this dog from wailing when it came onto field.
All Schutzhund dogs, some at their Sch3. None were dogs that I would own, or even care to be around past having to share a field with them.
All the wrong drive, in all the wrong places. No K9 unit in their right mind would touch them... or any good PPD trainer for that matter.
Yet boy oh boy, do they sure score big in SCHUTZHUND.
And on a closing note- were you aware that some of the dogs who worked in the recovery effort on 9/11, actual dogs at the towers, were American dogs, bred fully on American lines?
What pieces of shit! Disgust! *eyeroll*
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I'll totally agree with those being terrible dogs. It sounds terrifying, the type of dog I would immediately want to cull.
However, I'll disagree with you on the idea that schutzhund is about who has the highest prey-drive. Actually, I say it's more about the owner's control over the dog, and the dog's sound mind and body. The dog loses points if it attacks or shows aggression without reason, or if it delays in following a command. So, your claims that these dogs you described scored high in Schutzhund sounds more like an exaggeration or false claim. Show me I'm wrong, but it sounds more to me that these were dogs still in training and not so high up in the rankings as you say.
Also, schutzhund isn't all about the protection part. It's also about the conformation, agility, and tracking. You already know this though. Still, this goes back to my argument about schutzhund dogs bred vs. american, which are mostly back yard breeders and families that want to give Fido the opportunity to "experience the miracle of creating life!" Yes, they are more often than not "pieces of shit" and "disgust".
Not all American-bred dogs are "pieces of shit" and "disgust", though. Yeah, there are always exceptions to the rule. My point is that people in America typically think a dog having a paper saying "Pure bred" is worth a shit when it's more about the bloodline and pedigree, and ultimately about the dog's health, mind, and ability to do the job it was bred for. Those 2 million estimated pure bred dogs that enter animal shelters each year are fantastic examples of that sad truth.
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The dog who tried to attack a bystander, to my knowledge, never made it past his BH. After said incident, the handler was politely (I would not have been so polite) excused from our club and recommended never to work the dog again, so I don't know what happened to them. They may have gone to another club for all I know. That said, the dog was from a very well known kennel, known for producing "good" Sch dogs, with many having gone on to title high in the sport. Whatever that tells you.
The ball dog was a Sch3.
The screamer was a Sch2 last I saw her. I no longer go to this club, but have friends that still do, and was informed she got her 3 at their last trial.
There are no balls during a trial. And being loud on the field isn't necessarily a DQ.
Schutzhund is about control, yes. Its also about winning, scoring big, and getting titles behind your dog's name. Take your pick of which of those matters more to most people, and what they'll do to a dog (and what they've been doing to them for years) to attain their goals.
Understand me here, I'm not saying all dogs who participate in Schutzhund are shit. There are many good dogs in the sport, who deserve every accolade they get and make me proud to still be in love with this breed. Its the breeders who's heads have wandered from the true spirit of the breed that have my ire. Every time I see a "working" dog breeder touting "EXTREME prey drive!!!!!" or "OFF THE WALL DRIVE!!!", I want to slam my head into a wall. These dogs will sure win big in Sch, yes indeed they will. And there are certainly enough of them out there, big winners are big breeders and BIG money. But they are not the German Shepherd Dog that I love, or the dogs that I would own. Never the dogs that I would own.
And while you mention the typical "back yard breeder" situation in American, which I AGREE is upsetting and frustrating and produces a lot of unstable dogs, again, don't for one second think Germany doesn't have its equivalent. In Germany, under the SV, dogs are required to be titled in a working venue (either Sch or herding) before they can breed. Which means? About a whole lot of nothing, depending on who you ask. Titles can be bought. Titles ARE bought, routinely, and a lot (a LOT) of unsound dogs slip through the cracks. The Sieger shows are filled with dogs of "questionable" temperament, not to mention some of the worst conformation in the breed. You can balk at American "frog dogs" til the cows come home (and you wont be wrong for doing so), but the Highline dogs coming out of Germany are some of the worst I've ever seen, and truly upsetting to look at.
And keep in mind that just because a dog finds itself in the unfortunate situation of being in a shelter, does NOT mean this it is a poorly bred animal.
I sat on a dog- a BEAUTIFUL bitch, dark black sable, most likely from West/East German breeding- for months. A sad case, had been dumped because her hip x-rays came back saying she had HD. She was fortunate to be scooped up by the local GSD rescue, who I regularly watch in case I can lend a hand. The rescue had her for over a month trying to place her, when they finally did some x-rays of their own. The dog came back with passing OFA results. She was adopted within the month.
A perfectly healthy, sound, WONDERFUL dog... who got a shit deal in life because people are stupid. There was nothing wrong with this dog, beautiful temperament to match her stunning good looks, and ultimately in good health.
But think of it like this. Dog with HD can't score big in SCHUTZHUND. Can't title big, thus will likely never be worth much in breeding.
Tsk tsk tsk.
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Actually, there is a lot of the "good" kind of pit fighting going on here in America... it's just not the kind that you hear about. News media twists things to make them seem more vicious and cruel than they actually are... And naturally, there are some evil people in this country, just like everywhere in the world... There are some people who do it for the money and the glory with no love for the dogs at all. "Thug" dog fighting like this makes me sick. This is where you see things like steroids, starvation, beating the dogs, cruel methods of culling, fighting to the death... I shudder to even think about it. It really is sick and disgusting what these people do to their dogs. They don't even treat them like living beings. These people aren't true dogmen, just wannabe thugs. They don't do it because they love the breed.
True pit matching is based on a system of rules called the Cajun Rules in the USA. (Most other countries have their own adaptions of these rules.) It's based on a system of "turns" and "scratches". A "turn" is where the dog turns away from his opponent; it shows that he might be unwilling to fight. If a dog turns, the two are pulled apart. They are taken to their respective corners by their handlers. There are lines drawn in front of each corner called "scratch lines". The dogs are released. If they cross these lines, it's called "scratching". If a dog doesn't scratch, it shows that he doesn't want to fight; he gives up. That's the end. He loses.
See, the fight isn't really about which dog can rip the other dog apart. The strongest dog isn't always the dog that wins. What you're looking for is gameness. A game dog never gives up, no matter how hurt he is.
If neither dog refuses to scratch, eventually one of three things happens:
1) A dog dies. This isn't very common. Why? Because a dead dog is no good to anybody. A person who lets their dog fight to the death is usually looked down on. I've heard of spectators buying dogs from handlers who refused to pick their dog up to save its life, because that handler is a moron (to be blunt). A dog who would rather die than give up is called a "dead game" dog. To waste a dog like that is senseless and idiotic. Besides that, these people DO love their dogs in most cases. They spend weeks getting these dogs in good physical shape for a fight. Most raise them up from pups. They form a bond. They don't like to see the dogs die for no reason.
2) A dog gets picked up. Picking up your dog means that you lose. However, you can be granted a "courtesy scratch". If your dog still wants to scratch the line, even though he's hurt to the point where he had to be picked up, he's a game dog. He lost, but he "lost game" (AKA lost without giving up). W, L, and GL/LG are often seen on pedigrees... W meaning the dog won a fight, L meaning he lost, and LG/GL meaning he lost game. To many, if not most, dogmen, a dog with an LG to his name is a much better dog than one with wins.
3) A tie is declared. Pretty simple. Neither dog wins or loses.
As you see, it's not just a brutal "Hey, let's see which of these two dogs can kill the other one." And not all losing dogs are culled, either. There are hundreds, thousands of dogs who lose (especially game losers) and go on to be retired, or used for breeding.
Living in the USA, I don't fight dogs myself. It's illegal... and really, I can hardly stomach it. I hate seeing dogs get hurt- and dogs do, of course, get hurt. But it's been done for decades, and as you know, it created the APBT. It's the only way to keep the APBT true. We've already lost the Staffy-Bull... very, very few game Staffords remain. And we're in the process of losing the APBT. If this goes on, APBTs won't exist anymore... all you'll have left will be AmStaffs. I'm not knocking AmStaffs, but AmStaffs were created to move away from the fighting pit, and by doing so, all gameness (determination, grit, tenacity) has been removed from the breed. APBTs still have that gameness... but if pit contests were removed from the equation, they wouldn't have it for long.
By the way... You may want to check out Pit Bull Chat.
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Wow! Those rules you described were actually very informative and interesting.
And actually, the game sound sooooo much better than the torture I've witnessed. These assholes were willing to let their dogs die as if they were disposable, and they had them for their own good looks. If their dogs were able to survive a battle and killed another dog, they were considered the biggest and toughest. And these punks would parade their dogs on the street in big chains, the dogs actually walking THEM because they didn't know the first thing about dog handling.
The way you describe it, it sounds well-controlled and less violent than some of the "natural" fights that happen with unstable dogs at a dog park. In fact, what you describe sounds like a sensitive art, much like Schutzhund, which can turn a dog into a feared monster if not done properly by a well-trained and experienced professional.
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Indeed! Like Schutzhund, it can be a terrible thing if performed by the wrong people. To me, it all boils down to the love you have for your dogs. If you do it for the right reasons (because you love the breed), you won't let yourself be cruel. But if you're doing it for the money and the glory, then the animals are going to suffer from your greed.
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You're right in the fact that most fighting dogs don't harm their owners. If you look at stock footage of dogfights, there are two handlers in the pit with the dogs. But as for everything else you're saying, you are incredibly uneducated.
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Uneducated... LOL. I hate to inform you of this but I am terribly well educated in the APBT breed. Tell me, what books have you read pertaining to the American Pit Bull Terrier, what breeders have you spoken to, and what bloodlines have you handled, that have you so well-versed on these dogs to the point that you can justify calling me uneducated?
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If pit bulls were as aggressive and dangerous as you make them sound, then they would be slaughtered on a regular basis like cattle. But they're not. They're therapy dogs, guide dogs, search and rescue..the list goes on and on.
I've been around pits my whole life, especially when I was young. I don't personally know what bloodline the purebred dogs came from, but I've also been around many shelter pit bulls.
What does it matter what books I've read? I've read ENOUGH, okay? From Pit Bulls for Dummies to major brand name books, in addition to every magazine on the shelf for a couple years now.
I believe that you've been around many pits in your life, but I just don't think you understand that they're capable of so much more than just fighting, and it's not what they were even originally bred for.
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LOL yes, it is what they were originally bred for. Explain to me what you think they were bred for then... Cuddles? And I don't find APBTs to be aggressive or dangerous to human beings in any way, not sure where you inferred that.
Pit Bulls for Dummies? Magazines? Yeah, your education on the breed is real tight... How about picking up California Jack's "Pit Bull Bible" or Ed Faron's "The Complete Gamedog" next time you have $150 laying around? Or anything by Richard F. Stratton if you want something more affordable. Or Joe Colby's "The American Pit Bull Terrier" even.
Not to sound rude, you may know plenty about the breed, but not enough to call me uneducated.
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I know I'm horribly late replying, but if you do any sort of research on the breed, you'll find the breed was originally bred to be an 'all around farm dog'- working animals such as cattle and hogs.
And actually, they were sometimes bred for "cuddles"- they were great with kids and protective of them- hence the nickname "nanny dog".
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First off, saying "LOL" in every comment doesn't make you sound any cooler or smarter than you're trying to be.
Anyway, pit bulls weren't bred to fight each other, they were bred for bull baiting, another blood sport. Once that became illegal, people started fighting the dogs against each other.
What part of FROM Pit Bulls for Dummies did you not understand? That, along with the magazines, are on the bottom of the list of information that I have on the breed, to be added to the personal experience.
What you've been doing with these arguments with me and ~italianpitbull is ignoring the facts we're telling you, and pointing out every little flaw you can to make yourself so like some sort of pit bull god.
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Before the sport of pit fighting (dog on dog combat) the APBT did not exist.
Bull-baiting became illegal in 1835 due to the Cruelty to Animals Act of 1835. Before this time, bull-baiting was performed by bolddogges (bulldogs). Afterward, people began to fight their dogs against one another. They found that the best fighting dogs were lighter and quicker than the heavier bolddogge, so they introduced game terriers to create a smaller, rangier dog. THIS was the beginning of the bull-and-terrier breed type. These dogs were the original fighting dog; the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. (NOT at all like the show-bred Stafford of today, but more like today's "Old Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier".) And then Pit Bulls didn't come along until folks began bringing these dogs across to the USA. John Pritchard Colby and a few other men founded the American Pit Bull Terrier. The UKC was 1898 as a registry solely for the APBT; to record APBT pedigrees, and hold sanctioned matches.
So no, you are wrong. "Pit bulls were bred for bull-baiting" is a FALSE statement. Their ancestors, the bolddogges/bulldogs were used for bull-baiting.
I haven't gotten ANY "facts" from either of you. If you want, write out some "facts" in plain, list form, because I haven't heard a single "fact" from you and Italian-Pitbull yet.
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Most dogs tend to be aggressive regardless of what breed they are, especially terriers. They have a high prey-drive.
Actually, many were bred as "catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions" before their "abilities" at fighting were discovered. People used their best traits against them, turned them into something they're not. If you treat the damn dog right, it will treat you and others right.
Pit bulls were once nanny dogs... Far cry from what you accuse them of being.
Also, what makes you the deity of all things pit? 
Pit lover out, yo.
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Search what I wrote and try to find where I "googled and copy pasted"
Bolddogges were the dogs who worked with cattle. APBTs never did.
Actually, the "nanny dog" thing comes from Staffordshire Bull Terriers. It just sort of got transferred over to the Pit Bull over the years... although it's a befitting term for both breeds.
And I think APBTs are the best dogs in the world. I think they're a fantastic dog with people. And that's what I get dogs for. To be good with humans (me).
I suggest you take a peak at Pit Bull Chat ([link] ) some time and try to educate yourself a bit.
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