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nikkiburr In reply to Lunchi [2005-11-21 22:00:12 +0000 UTC]

Sure, what do you want to know about them? I've been a dedicated rat owner for years so I can probably give you some answers It's a great strategy to do your research before getting any new pet as it greatly ensures the happiness of that animal - good job on thinking about it!

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Lunchi In reply to nikkiburr [2005-11-21 22:56:25 +0000 UTC]

that was my first thought and wish: to make the rats happy because of good care. And I hope to learn much about them before getting any.

As to your question: I have no special questions about them, I want to know anything and everything.
I am glad that you want to help me with your skills and knowledge about rats!

Back then, with 6 years, I got my first budgie, and we bought a book about them, but this book was from 1989 or maybe even older and there where many facts which were not right, like that it was okay keeping budgies lonely or that toys like mirrors or plastic birds are useful and even necessary.
When I learned much about budgies at the internet and while keeping them I learned how wrong that book was and threw it into the trash can. New books are much better and I learned that personal experiences from budgy-owners are better than any scientific book can tell you.

Of course, I still made some mistakes during the years, I think noone can preserve one of them, but one can decrease those mistakes to a minimum.

So I am especially interested in what a rat needs to be happy, what toys -if there are any - are dangerous for them although shops sell them as rat-toys. (I read something about those hamster-balls in which the animal is trapped and can get seriously hurt and something about plastic-tunnels which can be munched on by the rats and so they could swallow little pieces of the plastic) Those things could be useful to know. Also, like how many hours a day needs the rat to be free outside its cage.

I am especially interested in if a rat can harm a bird - I am sure, it can! - or if the bird can fly away before the rat can bite it. Because I think I likely want to held my birds and my - future - rats in the same room. But if they could harm each other, I would likely let them outside their cages at different daytimes.

Other interesting facts would be illnesses and keeping the rat entertained with toys and playtime.
WHen they bite, does it hurt very much or is it even dangerous? How can I prevent getting bitten and how do I take a rat correctly (I know one mustn't lift them up at their tails but I would also be afraid of squeezing them too much...) I think I have enough time to learn, because at the moment I am living with my parents and I think that won't change for about 2-4 years. But when I have an own apartement, I will definitely buy rats! So I am happy about any information you can give me!

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nikkiburr In reply to Lunchi [2005-11-22 03:46:02 +0000 UTC]

Oh yeah forgot a few things. Rats and birds *probably* wouldn't get along - rats are predatory and usually attack smaller animals. Though having them out at separate times would work fine I'd think. Also, a common disease you will see in the rat world is what we call "Myco". Myco is a very not-fun upper respiratory illness caused by the mycoplasmosis bacteria. Unfortunately, ALL rats carry the bacteria and thus they all technically have myco. The symptoms however (sneezing, wheezing, lethargic, hunched over, puffy eyes, weight loss, rattling and otherwise noisy breathing) can be lessened and sometimes removed with medication, so if you have a rat that is showing any of these symptoms, I'd get him/her to the vet. That's a pretty brief description of it, if you want to have a more indepth reading, you can Google it and get some results pretty quick

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Lunchi In reply to nikkiburr [2005-11-22 06:58:53 +0000 UTC]

Thank you so much for all the information!
First thing, which I of course wanted to do is buy two rats. I once saw a tv-documentation where a person had a lone rat and it was biting into its own tail and had other problems like that. An animal-psychologist had to come and she said, the rat only needed a partner. After she bought one, another rat with problems from an animal shelter, they got together and were very happy!
It must be cute to watch them play together, I love that in my budgies, to watch their social behaviour.

It was interesting to read about the myco decease. I thought, rats would get cancer and tumors very often. But I never heard about Myco. I will definitely pay attention to that!

I read about those hammocks before and I think its so cute to see them sleep inside them! Its a good idea, because you can wash them, am I right?

When you give no wooden things to the rats, how do you prevent that their teeth get too long? I heard about rabbits where teeth grow too long, when they have nothing to munch on.

Things I didn't understand: Taklan tab blocks. Is that the normal rat-food? Because naming labels doesn't mean anything to me, because I come from germany and I think we have different labels.
Same goes for the cages from Martins. Could you tell me the size in centimeters or meters? That would be easier for me to understand - though I will of course use Google to have a look at the cages from Martins. I saw many cages, they are mostly higher than long and have some levels.
How many levels do I need? 2 or at least 3 (for 2 rats)?

Thank you again, that was really helpful to me!
I mean, I have still lots of time to learn, and I think, I will become a member in a forum about rats to read more about them and to talk with other rat-owners about our pets. I already do so in a forum about budgies, and it always helped me, when there are any questions. There are some breeders included, too. But I like to get as many opinions and knowledge as possible and your rats looks so happy and healthy that I thought, it couldn't be wrong to ask you some things

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nikkiburr In reply to Lunchi [2005-11-23 03:32:52 +0000 UTC]

Yeah I forgot to mention about tumors - that is another incredibly common rat illness. Three out of the 11 rats I've had so far have come down with tumors, 2 girls and 1 boy. It is more prevalent in females I believe. Hammocks are definitely a favorite to the point of necessity - and yes, they're easy to clean, just throw em in the washing machine or hand wash them if you feel like it. As for keeping the teeth short, rats naturally grind their teeth regularly, which helps wear them down. Just like a cat will purr, a rat will "brux" when it's happy; this is when they grind their teeth together very quickly and it makes kind of a chittering noise. It's really quite adorable While it can be fun and can't hurt to have something to chew on, it isn't required - I don't usually keep any "chew" toys in their cage and they've never had teeth problems before. As for the food, I'm not positive about for Germany as I'm in the US so I'm used to different companies and stuff. I'm not sure of the availability of Harlan Teklad in other countries, but I *think* it's the most widely used rat food for scientific lab rats. You might want to try to do some research and see if it's available around you. Otherwise, make sure you stay away from too much protein which can cause itchy skin. Martin's cages are extremely good quality, here's their website: [link] I'm not sure if they ship internationally but I think they probably do. There's another brand called SuperPet which also has good cages so I hear. The Martin's "Rat Tower" or the R-690 is what I have and I consider to be the ideal cage for between 2-4 rats (if you do end up getting one of their cages make sure you get the powder-coated, not galvanized cage as the powder coated will last a LOT longer - this goes for any rat cage you get actually no matter the brand). They give you the dimensions on the side but because I lack brains I am not sure how to convert into centimeters *sigh* I DEFINITELY agree with joining a forum, I honestly don't think there's too many better ways to get good information on pet ownership. Not only do you get multiple different opinions, but people can share their experience with you and it's fun to talk to other petlovers Hope this helped!

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Lunchi In reply to nikkiburr [2005-11-23 12:26:41 +0000 UTC]

thank you for all the information.
rats and birds have a lot in common, I see. female budgies are also more often getting tumors than males and budgies also grind their beak together and make brux noises when they are happy funny.

I think here in Germany there are also good cages for rats. One of my real life friends had had two rats some time ago but had to give them away. I think she has still the cage somewhere, and maybe she can later give it to me
I agree with you about the forum, thats what I felt when I joined the forum about budgies. It really helps me and it is so much fun!

I will try to remember the fact about proteins, thank you. We have a brand here, called Vitakraft which makes food and crackers for many animals (birds, rabbits, guinea pigs) and I think they also produce food for mice and rats. At least I hope so, because my budgies like their food very much and they are very healthy. They also produce very sweet things with lots of honey and some unhealthy ingredients, but when you feed their crackers only sometimes, not so often, its okay. If you feed them too often, the birds can become too fat. But mine are very active, flying around very often, so its no problem for them So I maybe will look for Vitakraft-food for my future rats.

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nikkiburr In reply to Lunchi [2005-11-22 03:37:45 +0000 UTC]

First of all, rats really should have company, so two ratties would be best Like humans, rats are incredibly social animals by nature and without same-species companionship they are less happy and studies have actually shown that lone rats are more prone to illness. So definitely get 2. Rats need a pretty good sized cage; the most widely acclaimed brand is Martin's cages, which is what I have. For litter on the bottom of the cage, do NOT use pine or cedar!! Both cause respiratory disease in rats and should never be used. Aspen shavings, however, are ok and are what I use, very comfy for the ratties. Rats should have out-of-cage time at least once a day for a few hours, once they're used to you and everything and if you have a safe area you can let them run free around a room, called 'free-ranging'. Best food you can get is Harlan Teklad lab blocks, though they're hard to find, and fresh fruit and veggies/other healthy food should be given regularly and in variety. As for toys, all rats should have a hammock, they love them, and pretty much any little thing that you can find that is safe/interesting. Rats loove cardboard boxes. Don't get anything wood as it will soak up the pee and is very hard to clean out. Rats, contrary to popular belief, do not bite. If anything, they will lick you. Occasionally you get the odd undersocialized rat that may nip now and then, but a biter is incredibly rare, especially if raised with lots of love and care. They will run around like little devils then come running back and try to scale your leg to get to your shoulder. Some are big lazy squishes that want nothing else but to sit on your shoulder or in your lap all day. The variety in personalities is incredible, each rat is very very different. The best place to get rats is a breeder if you have any nearby, pet store rats are usually not as healthy (though I have had long-lived petstore rats) and less friendly. You are correct in that holding them by their tails is not good, in fact it can actually de-glove the tail (pull the skin off) - rats can be heavy and the skin of the tail cannot always support that weight! The best way to hold them is suppor their butt with one hand and their front with the other, sort of cupping your hands around them. You get used to handling them pretty quickly and it becomes second nature. That is rat care in a nutshell

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