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OttoVonSuds — Allies, Reds and Nazis

Published: 2012-12-28 00:05:32 +0000 UTC; Views: 13190; Favourites: 70; Downloads: 67
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Description A piece based off of when Ian Montgomerie actually did alternate history. He did an essay describing the kind of circumstances that you'd need to have a third reich survive the second world war and become a third player for the long-term. Ian also did an essay describing the eocnomic problems a victorious Nazi Germany would have faced.

Ironically, the survival of the Third Reich in the long term requires bad luck in the beginning. This begins with Norway, where a Britain with three days lead time is able to foul up things for Germany. Germany's sticking with the original plans of hitting the allies through the netherlands didn't work as well as OTL's plan. It takes most of the summer of 1940 before France is overrun. There is no dramatic moment of blitzkrieg. Unlike our 1940, the strategic situation doesn't look as good for Germany. To further compound things, Mussolini suspends his plans to try starting a war in Africa.

An even more overconfident Japan noticing the distracted UK and unprepared United States hits both Pearl Harbor and the dutch east indies a year early, figuring that America won't do anything. The Pacific front is part of why the appeasers are able to convince enough Britons that they should make peace with Germany and focus on the pacific. The fact that Britain was able to hold out better and even score some victories under the old government is yet another point in favor of the old government.

1941 is the great year of stalemate for both the British and Germans. The air and submarine wars continue as in OTL. Later on in the year, a Hitler who lacks OTL's post-dunkirk confidence notices that Germany's strategic position looks rather poor -- it is clear that the waer with Britain has become a stalemate that takes resources that could go to preparing for war with Russia. The stalemate is ended when Germany starts offering peace feelers, along with proposing concessions like the neutralization of western Europe -- If Britain will aggree to peace, Germany will make a staged withdrawel from the west with the only condition being that the liberated countries couldn't join any anti-german alliances and that they'd take the "undesirables" from Germany and the occupied bits of eastern europe. Britain accepts and the war in the west is over.

Meanwhile, the United States is busy with a pacific war that started early. It follows a roughly similar path to ours despite an even less prepared United States -- Japan being able to get farther(a single landing on Northern Australia combined with a failed attempt at landing in Hawaii) leads to worse victory disease which proves... lethal once america is up to speed. The war ends in november 1944 after a massive campaign of firebombing and landings on Kyushu that make our world's Operation Overlord look tiny force the Emperor to overrule the military and surrender.

Once the war on the west is over, the stimulus of militarization and loot that enriched Germany is over. The resulting economic depression and necessary economic restructuring produces a long enough period of internal troubles for the Reich to not have the option of invading the Soviet Union. Hitler's death by choking on a pretzel in september of 1945 doesn't help matters, because of the succession struggle. By the time that Heydrich's Germany is able to get itself on a secure defensive footing, Stalin is dead and Molotov leads a Soviet Union that is in some ways more powerful without the damage of the second world war.

The cold war emerges in bits and pieces and the precise origin is debatable. Some say, it's the 1946 demonstration of the joint Anglo-American Tube alloys atomic bomb project in the deserts of Australia, others say it's Heyrich's deposing Himmler in 1948 or Molotov's taking over after Stalin's poisoning by one of his doctors in 1951. There are even those who cite the Indian Revolution of 1955 as the poin when it crystalized. Like a three-legged stool, this cold war is less stable than our world's bipolar one, which has not proven fun for residents of areas disputed between the big three superpowers(The Brotherhood of Fascist Nations, The United Nations and the Soviet Union)-- There have been more Vietnams and Koreas. At least there've only been a couple of minor nuclear oops(mostly related to the "Death Wall" DMZ between the Reich and USSR) and only 15 cities have gone up in mushroom clouds. At least all three sides have learned that using nuclear weapons isn't a good idea. Unfortunately, it was too late for the residents of the areas that got nuked.

The closest that this world went to going nuclear in a big way wasn't the Indian revolution or even the Spanish Missile Crisis of '67. No, it was the Algerian incident of '74. For the first time in a few decades, France elected a government that decided it was going to scale down it's overseas commitments and try to let go of Algeria. The white population of Algeria, which thanks to deportations from the Reich's sphere was now on par with the arab population revolted and sympathetic military officers tried a coup. After a few scary weeks where both the Brotherhood and The United Nations were on full nuclear alert, the situation was resolved -- France remained neutral but Algeria joined the Brotherhood.

After that bit of scariness in the mid 1970s, the cold war resumed to business as usual for the most part. It's not detente, but things downshifted to the paranoia of our McCarthyist early 1950s. The Reich even liberalized to a limited degree, now that they had finished shipping all the untermensch west to the neutral nations and those Brotherhood nations with colonial empires decided to move to policies centered around forced westernization/cultural destruction and force draft modernization instead of keeping the status quo. The soviet union even did some economic reforms, mainly designed to allow more efficient use of resources for the military.

Now, change appears to be in the air. A Reich that over the past 30 years discarded fuhrer rule, deported the "undesirables", did massive economic reform and still doesn't find it to be enough for the Reich to manage both of it's threats to the east and west has made a choice: The eastern, communist enemy will be focused on. Chanchellor Haase has offered concessions such as removing missiles from spain, allowing the "Neutral Zone" states like France, the low countries and Scandanavia to join the United Nations. In a historical summit, with the approval of congress, President Rhodes has agreed to meet with the German Chancellor in Berlin for the July Talks...

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The United Nations is a military alliance and to a lesser degree an economic union. It contains the Americas, most of what was the British Empire, non-chinese east asia, China and the United States. The capital that went in OTL to rebuilding and propping up western Europe after WWII instead went to developing China or latin America or more generally the industrial modernization of the British commonwealth. Every nation in the United Nations is more militarized than OTL with national service being the norm and national security states being a fact of life. This is accepted as needed for the Struggle Against Totalitarianism.

America remains the leader of the United Nations thanks to it's massive economy combined with the military potential unleashed by command capitalism combined with continually high patriotism. It's a rather more regimented society than OTL with about a decade's lag in terms of social mores(there wasn't really a 1960s as we know it, but the 1970s after the algerian crisis and early 80s were sort of a minor bohemian era). However, culture war issues get less play in a nation which has real threats to worry about -- abortion is less of a concern when you have the Reich pointing missiles or a soviet union that's actually as nasty as OTL's extreme cold warriors/anti-communists claim. America has real universal healthcare since 1) the fascists, democracies _and_ reds all have it so UHC isn't a sign of the gulag 2) there is a real need for social solidarity against the menace. Incidently, with the bad examples of the Reich's deportations, Italy's massacres in ethiopia, and the Soviet decision to solve differential birthrates in central asia with repression the United States has done a more serious effort to become an integrated nation than OTL so skin color and to a lesser extent religion matter less.

America's long term ally The Republic of China is the second half propping up this alliance. Since the 1990s, the Republic of China has been a (corrupt) sorta-democracy. The KMT now only steals enough votes to get 50-55% of the vote to make elections look fair. Massive militarization, extreme protectionism, bureaucratic red tape designed to prevent "comprador capitalism" and to a lesser extent aerospace needs have kept economic growth lowered to the point where it's only on par with OTL's china in per capita terms even though it avoided the Maoist era. The potential power of China's large population combined with a modern economy is part of the reason that the Reich's rulers have decided to try making accomodations with the United Nations.

Despite the fact that it's position has slipped, the British commonwealth is rather more important than OTL. Nowadays it's a joint British-South African-Canadian-Australian club with input from Malaya and other dominions. Besides serving as a unifying politcial voice to increase their overall geopolitical weight, the Commonwealth has put lots of investment into modernizing africa. The fact that former British africa tends to be low or medium latin american levels with South Africa being fully developed attests to this success.

The East Asian Treaty organization is a joint Sino-American project. It's a mix of military alliance and economic union that's stalled out at roughly 80s EEC levels(the rest of east and southeast asia REALLY don't want to just be outer appendages to China). All of the nations in it are wealthier and rather more militarized, like the rest of the alliance.

Latin America is a group of American protectorates that's as tied to the United states as the warsaw pact was to the soviet union. Yes, the area is fully developed but the price has been a massive loss of sovereignty. The region's militaries are even de facto just treated as extra units within the United States military.

The second member of the Big three is a rather scary Soviet Union. After Stalin died, he was replaced by the just as nasty Molotov. Molotov got replaced by Zhirinovsky. There has been enough economic reform to enable an expanding soviet military-industrial complex but the police state has remained more brutal than our late USSR -- the USSR still shoots troublemakers instead of jailing them or locking them in mental hospitals. The sheer unpleasantness of the Soviet Union is why the United Nations is even considering the Brotherhood's overtures at all. The USSR isn't as nasty as it was under stalin, but it manages to be worse than a somewhat mellowed Third Reich.

India isn't as nasty as the soviet union, but it's not a fun place to be in. Think a more left-wing version of Indira Gandhi's India in practice. It started out as a lefty democracy, but over time has degraded to a worse and worse police state. Unfortunately, this shift appears to be embedded in the fact that the modern government emerged in response to the British attempt to set up a politically weak, confederal, puppet India confederation. There's lots of attempts to promote a single "united" culture which only end with unrest that is followed up by bloody suppression.

Besides India, the Soviet Union has a couple of minor allies in Africa, all of which are rather unpleasant dictatorships even by Soviet standards. Congo is surprisingly stable, with the caveat that the current dictator makes many Congolese nostalgic for the good old days under King Leopold.

The third portion of the triparite structure is the German Reich. Germany has a population of around one half to two thirds of the other members of the big three but the Reich tries harder, which allowsd it to partially close the gap. German inability to close the gap is the big reason for their diplomatic overtures to the west -- if they can at the very least reduce western threats to Reich interests, they can focus more resources against the soviets. Germany is a dictatorship that at least tries to follow the rule of (brutal) law in theory. Fuhrer rule is long gone, with the army, party *and* SS all agreeing that a Chancellor is less dangerous than an unaccountable fuhrer with the ability to touch the "launch all missiles" button. Along with Fuhrer rule, the nazi obsession with race is mostly gone, since all the "undesirables" were dumped on the French over six decades ago, with unfortunate consequences for the nonwhite residents of Algeria and Madagascar. and there approximately zero "undesirables" on German soil. Even the neopaganism and odinist revivals have gone by the wayside. Over a half a century of forceful pro-natalist policies, combined with recent policies of letting in sufficiently pale and fair-haired indo-european people as immigrants have created a third reich of 200 million Germans. The "New Germans" don't get the top jobs or high up in the partei.

The Reich's European empire consists of other fascist states which are either willing allies(Italy, Spain, portugal) or puppet states(Yugoslavia, bulgaria, greece, romania, Hungary) of varying levels of cooperativeness and unrest. Italy, Spain and Portugal all keep their colonies, even now. The environment inside the puppet states can be compared to the post-stalin Warsaw pact, but with rather more capitalism and less willingness to rock the boat. After all, the Reich is bad enough but the soviets are just plain scary.

The arab world is largely dominated by Pro-Reich military dictatorships, that differ from our Ba'ath regimes in that they're even more ruthless in rooting out Islamism than OTL. Same goes for both Iran and Turkey. Side effects of the pro-Reich alignment of the middle east include a permanent oil embargo from the 1950s onwards.

EVERYONE ELSE

The biggest neutral nation is the French Republic. France has been neutral since the early 1940s and as a result has quite turbulant politics. There's pro-fascists, people who don't mind the status quo, pro-American and even a few pro-soviet people. French society has been distorted by the Reich's influence and it's rather more nationalist and racist than our France. It even maintains a quite shrunken empire of it's own, with puppet states like Chad.

The Low countries are another set of neutral nations, that unlike France are more influenced by the Reich. All are at least more conservative than OTL, with Belgium having the pattern of one party constantly winning and it's not the left-wing one.

Scandanavia has adjusted well to being a neutral zone. The main visible difference from our scandanavia is that the governments are pro-eugenics, more racist, more authoritarian and even more secular than OTL's Scandanavia. They are all one-party states, with the range of real democracy being from Singapore, late PRI Mexico to 1950-90 Japan under the LDP. The failed German attempt to revive Odinism has actually taken off here and there are small but visible minorities of Odinists.

Bhutan has a messy civil war going between pro-nazi "Aryanists" and pro-Indian communists. Otherwise, it's not newsworthy for the most part.

Finland is True Neutral and wishes it wasn't on this planet.

Syria has successfully neutralized itself and doesn't want to be a soviet missile target anymore.

Nepal is glad to not be in the news.

**********************************************

A more extensive force draft pushes has made the world be 30 years ahead overall in terms of technological capabilities on average. However, it's not evenly distributed though -- there are Orions zipping around the solar system and "drain cleaner" pills to cure heart disease but cellphones are still mostly phone and broadband is only now being rolled out. Part of it is national security reasons making governments not trust their citizens with cellphones.

Germany began the space race, but the big players all followed in a burst of activity from 1950 to 1990. There are moonbases, orbital solar power sats, orbital heavy industry, kinetic kill weapons, orbital lasers, mines on near earth asteroids, large orbital docks, SDI systems, orbital hotels, etc. Unfortunately. With the recent spirit of UN-Brotherhood cooperation, or at least detente there are talks of a joint Mars mission or the alternative plan of testing out mining technology in the belt.

With the nazis choosing to deport "undesirables" west, instead of commiting genocide Eugenics remains more respectable than OTL. As a result, biotechnology is more acceptable. This helps explain the "Drain cleaner" pills and the 2010 discovery of a cure for diabetes(pushed by Wilford Brimley, of course).
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Comments: 11

grisador [2015-11-18 19:01:05 +0000 UTC]

Nice

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Neetsfagging322297 [2015-05-26 14:29:40 +0000 UTC]

Loot? Haha, closer to propaganda than reality.


What made Germany powerful was the economic performances during and after the war, without which the rearmament would not have been possible in the first place while the occupation of Belgium or northern France couldn´t pay for the war effort, make up for Britain´s naval blockade.
In 1937 Germany lost half of its foreign trade to Japanese unability to deal with initiative-takers in its military but it was the United States (despite not having any problems with ressources shortage at all and much greater industrial capacity)and its New Deal that saw an economic downturn.
The main danger to the German economy was a lack of ressources needed for an industrial state.

The Soviet-Union was gearing-up for war, the reason Barbarossa was so successfull wasn´t primarily because the Red Army was weak due to the purges but not prpeared to fight a defensive war at that time, the reason why intelligence of an attack was ignored was that earlier reports had been that the attack would come in May and that did not happen, battle of Crete ended only on June the 1st.
A more likely outcome, the war ends with most of Germany being occupied by the Soviet-Union and once a stable communist governement is established there, there would be another war to claim the rest of continental europe.

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AnataraKentara [2014-12-25 06:58:04 +0000 UTC]

I'm surprised the German state did not really push into Russia?

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OttoVonSuds In reply to AnataraKentara [2014-12-25 20:01:40 +0000 UTC]

No war with russia in this world. That' half of why the reich is a thing.

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AnataraKentara In reply to OttoVonSuds [2014-12-26 07:56:14 +0000 UTC]

Ahhh. Damn, so it's a humongous build up then?

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OttoVonSuds In reply to AnataraKentara [2014-12-26 17:56:08 +0000 UTC]

Yep. The reich misses the boat as far as opportunities to strike east goes.

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AnataraKentara In reply to OttoVonSuds [2014-12-26 20:33:45 +0000 UTC]

Well, damnnn.

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bruiser128 [2014-12-12 22:51:53 +0000 UTC]

I willing to put my money on the idea that the people of the three blocs are more paranoid than OTL's cold war.

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OttoVonSuds In reply to bruiser128 [2014-12-14 17:00:37 +0000 UTC]

Yeah.

This world's nuke arsenals are probably 2x that of OTL.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

bruiser128 In reply to OttoVonSuds [2014-12-14 18:29:56 +0000 UTC]

 ...'gulp'  

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TomradeM [2013-06-04 14:25:48 +0000 UTC]

now that is an interesting timeline "Hitler choking on a preztel" made me crack up

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