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paleWOLF In reply to Blunderbess [2008-01-15 05:32:58 +0000 UTC]

He is pure bred Great Dane, like his mommy, Zairis. His coloration is called Blue Merle, but in the Dane world it is simply referred to as "Merle"...they don't differentiate between the shades--which can be platinum, blue, chocolate, fawn, blue fawn and nearly black--to name a few...the Merle coloration is concidered, in Great Danes, a "forbidden" color to breed, show and to some, to own one is concidered taboo--the color has genetically linked problems if you cross one Merle to another willy nilly, causing possible deafness, blindness, stillborn or absorbed fetuses...it is a beautiful color, and many people either have never seen it before, or don't know anything about it--for GD breeders and AKC they have clipped this color out of the "standard" because of the possible problems linked to it--BUT the Harlequin color--the black and white patchy color, like a milk cow color--ALSO has the same problems as Merle, and can have many Merles born in a litter of a proper Harlequin to Harlequin pairing--YET the Harlequin color is concidered an acceptable and loveable color in the breed, and Merle is concidered a MUTTLY, UGLY color---why? You got me. I think both colors should be allowable OR both removed if they have so many congenital genetic problems...but that is just me...

BTW in the early days of the GD, AND even in some modern breeding practices Merles are killed the instant they are born...SAD!!! Good thing times have mostly changed, otherwise poor Zora, Zartan and Zombie might never have made it past 1 minute of life--and someone would miss out the experience of these truely beautiful animals!

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Laurie4000 In reply to paleWOLF [2008-01-28 17:06:03 +0000 UTC]

Why is that different breeds call colors and patterns different things? On a dachshund, that kind of coloring is called dapple. My doxie has ticking like a bluetick hound yet it's called piebald .

One thing about the AKC that makes no sense to me is that doxie double dapples are accepted color yet like with the great dane can cause blindness, hearing loss and such. Yes, they are beautiful but to what extent.

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paleWOLF In reply to Laurie4000 [2008-01-30 03:51:57 +0000 UTC]

Basically the genes that create the dapples, merles and piebalds are the SAME, only often they are named differently in different breeds--but like you said to what extent? Some colors are allowed in some breeds--namely merle--while it is NOT allowed in other breeds. With RESPONSIBLE breeding practices merle dogs CAN be bred without side effects--BUT you should NEVER breed one merle to another-as it DOES cause blindness, deafness and puppies that either never are conceived, or die shortly after birth--often referred to as "lethal white syndrome"--

In Great Danes Harlequin also acts the same way as merle, which is why they are often crossed with black or mantle colored dogs--to balance out the merle and harle genes. Some breeders are SO crazy about retaining the Harlequin color that they will actually inbreed in their lines to retain it--which when inbreeding is practiced minimally and with great care can produce excellent puppies--BUT most who do it don't always do it for the right reasons.

Same thing with other colored Harlequins--there are MANY variations--MOST standards however only allow a Harlequin to have BLACK torn patches, and in some countries they allow Blue AND/OR black colored patches--but Harlequin SHOULD be thought of as a "pattern" gene, rather than a "color" gene--the way the gene works is like an incomplete masking gene, with the white part being dominant over ALL other colors--so when a dog has the Harlequin PATTERN they have torn patches of whatever color is beneath the white--the dog carries the SAME pattern in its genes, but only dogs with black or blue under the white are allowed for breeding and showing, while others are concidered POOR quality specimens. I ask WHY?

You CAN retain the Harlequin "pattern" with all the different colors as patches, and the way I see it is if EVERYTHING else about a dog is concidered, as in health, temperment, physical conformation and ability to perform the tasks asked of it--WHY is color even a factor? How does color--besides in the double merle, solid white or lethal whites--determine the WORTH of a dog? If everything else is in place, IMHO color should be the LAST thing to worry about!

I think AKC breeders and showers have RUINED MANY breeds--AND I have even read some articles by actual Judges of Dog shows and some of them are a bit miffed about the issues they encounter in the judging world--where some of the BEST specimens are often looked past by other judges when another dog moves a little better or stands better during the "hands on" portion of the judging--that a GREAT many of the dogs who DO win titles probably ARE NOT always the very BEST examples of the breed!

SO after reading these articles by ACTUAL Show Judges the system doesn't have my faith in the dog shows anymore! The dogs that are picked are supposed to be the ABSOLUTE best matches to the standard as possible, and since people are varied in opinion and preference, as well as marks against a dog's performance on any particular day, it is a TOTALLY inreliable system! AND to compound matters every country, breeder, shower and judge has a personal manner of picking the best dogs, and also have personal preferences as to what the "ideal" specimen SHOULD look like--like in Europe, they prefer larger bodies, blockier heads, more "lip" and more muscle on their Danes, while here in America we like our Danes much like we prefer our super-models--stick thin, lean lines and super tall and leggy, with arrow straight rectangular heads-and as little lip as possible-- if you were to compair American TOP show dogs to European TOP show dogs you would almost think two dogs of the SAME breed from USA and UK for example were two COMPLETELY different breeds! I DO think the European breeders often take MORE pride in their animals than people here in the USA--sad but true!

So the term AKC Registered doesn't really hold much weight with me anymore, EVEN if there are "titled" or "champion" dogs in the bloodline. I think health, stable temperment, trainability, and physical "type" should be more important than color--because when emphasis is put on retaining, creating or breeding the "perfect" color, we lose the WHOLE REST of the dog!

I say "Color is as Color does. NOTHING!"--I personally think Merles and Harlequins of ALL variations are beautiful, AND I think it is a GREAT injustice to the Great Dane to exclude these colors from breeding or showing--some of the BEST looking dogs I have ever seen have EVERYTHING where it needs to be with perfect health, temperment, physical conformation and agiltiy--but were outcast because of their color!

I am actually going to start the process of "creating" a breed--and I will put emphasis on everything else that is important, and they can be ANY color! It will be a 20+ year process to reach my goals, but SOOOO worth it in the end.

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Blunderbess In reply to paleWOLF [2008-01-15 06:04:25 +0000 UTC]

That is one of the reasons I have a really hard time supporting the AKC. I would love one of those puppies one day. Do you breed them professionally? Once I have my living arrangements sorted out, and have some property, I would certainly look into it. Whereabouts are you? I find so many reputable breeders are too far away from me

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paleWOLF In reply to Blunderbess [2008-01-15 18:31:22 +0000 UTC]

I believe that the AKC does have "some" good influence to breed, but I too have a hard time supporting an organization that seems more intent on breed registry numbers, than the actual welfare of the animals they brag about. I almost don't like to watch dog shows anymore, because they always seem to point out ONLY the good things about certain breeds, and how good they are with families, and good baby sitters, excellent companions--BLA BLA BLA-- when not every family SHOULD have a Labrador, or a Golden Retriever or a Poodle, etc. AKC brags about Registry numbers, and rotate the animals at the top of the list as "best dog breeds in America", but if you look at Petfinder.com Labradors and Goldens are BOTH ALSO at the top of the list of animal surrenders, stray pets and animals awaiting homes--because MOST families cannot handle the energy of these two hunting breeds--I LOVE both breeds, but I am also a dog trainer and "KNOW" dogs and what they require. The average "joe" family doesn't have the first clue how to handle the hunter instincts of these dogs....not to mention all the cross breeds with varied personalities, poorly bred animals, and hunting bloodline vs. service dog bloodlines--NO novice could possibly know all of these things, even with research--I have dedicated my LIFE to dogs, breed knowledge and training and I am STILL surprised about facts, figures, tips and things to expect, on a regular basis!

Maybe I should be a PRE-pet Consultant--to inform the "Average Joe" families about the pros AND cons of every breed, and evaluate their compatibility with their chosen favorite breeds....there is an idea...hmmm

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