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PatrickMonnier In reply to JACAC [2016-08-04 01:49:11 +0000 UTC]

Thanks Jose, I hope you are right!

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JACAC In reply to PatrickMonnier [2016-08-04 10:10:30 +0000 UTC]

f o r . s u r e . i s .

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PatrickMonnier In reply to AnnieBee61 [2016-07-31 21:23:24 +0000 UTC]

Thank you.

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PatrickMonnier In reply to jesseboy000 [2016-07-30 23:56:13 +0000 UTC]

Thanks Jesse

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PatrickMonnier In reply to xs-deviant [2016-07-30 15:46:03 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for your comment. No image is perfect and it certainly includes this one...

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xs-deviant In reply to PatrickMonnier [2016-07-30 16:08:41 +0000 UTC]

Ok. I am alway's in for some self criticism, lets hear it Patrick, What would you like to do better on this one. Not enough DOF? Not happy with the cut?

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PatrickMonnier In reply to xs-deviant [2016-07-31 00:06:28 +0000 UTC]

Well, no need to spend too much time engaging in this self-critique exercise but since you asked: Technically the image is fine. As far as the creative aspect, it's neither original not all that compelling emotionally. Last, it is flat (lacks layering in depth. Look at Alex Webb; he is a master of this, which I think is one of the most difficult aspects of good photography).  Among many other issues about this particular image....

Thanks for listening!

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xs-deviant In reply to PatrickMonnier [2016-07-31 07:06:40 +0000 UTC]

That its not original I addressed in the first place by saying it could be in a book of standards. Which means it does very well have it's emotional merits. The old man starting his day undisturbed by anything with his well developed morning ritual. So these two are not really issues IMHO. We all have certain compositions in or mind that will kick in when we get that situation.

Now the DOF. This picture would have been layered with the right DOF. But then again the main subject might have become the barman.  As is I think it is just right. One thing you should never do is compare yourself to an idol or try to mimic him. You will become a soulless copycat. Alex Webb is just using a beginners rule and became good at it. That doesn't mean you have to get good at it.

Now if I take the images I have seen from you till now, I would say your strength lies in atmosphere and light. That in itself might contradict with layering and frustrate you. So maybe you should rethink the place you want to give layering in your photography. I love this image and if you say anything more bad about it 'I willz kick you '

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PatrickMonnier In reply to xs-deviant [2016-08-01 01:46:45 +0000 UTC]

Layering has nothing to do with DOF. DOF is actually fine in my image. And I must strongly object to your comment suggesting AW "is just using beginners rule". Layering is one of the hardest feats to achieve in photography and AW has demonstrated again and again, especially with his Istanbul work, that he indeed is a master of it... Look it up; lots of definitions but very good visual examples.

I appreciate your comment.

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xs-deviant In reply to PatrickMonnier [2016-08-01 06:58:26 +0000 UTC]

Iam not attacking AW who is a master indeed, yet you will find layering as composition technique in every beginners guide. As for the DOF, this is only partially true, f.i. show me where AW does not use a deep DOF when layering. In fact in macro photograpy, which  is the reverse of many things, stacking layers is used to gain a deep DOF.

Now just to be sure (I like to check up on what I say) I did some gogling. And jeromelorieauphotography.com/p… is a good example as to where layering comes from and how DOF didn't even play a role in it.

And last but not least this article decisiveshot.com/street-photog… is very decisive about how more layers (is more focus, is deeper DOF) make the better picture.

I am learning a lot of this, for one that I should be more prudent using the sport setting when I have somehow more time to frame, and as a start position in framing I will use aperture mode with a small aperture.

Happy that this doesn't encompass more then switching from to
  

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PatrickMonnier In reply to xs-deviant [2016-08-01 13:46:24 +0000 UTC]

Yes, but my original point was that layering is NOT achieved with DOF. Layering is a compositional technique whereas DOF is a technical aspect of the camera (optical) system. I also meant to say that there are very FEW good examples of effective layering in photography. Perhaps why Jerome Lorieau chose paintings to make his point....

So, while you might say that layering is a beginner's rule, I will continue to say that it is extremely difficult to do well and that few photographers can do it on a consistent basis...

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xs-deviant In reply to PatrickMonnier [2016-08-01 14:58:44 +0000 UTC]

O no it isn't if I gave you the impression. And of cause you are right, take my latest deviant Girls wanna have fun. If I would have been masterfull I would have waited till some handsome young man would have past between her and the store or till I might have caught the face of a pretty young man between my cam and her. Anyway action enough but now I feel somethings missing :-P But thanks to our discussion about it I learned a lot and I hope other people who come across this and read it will to.

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