Comments: 45
ashlaforce [2019-03-02 13:08:17 +0000 UTC]
I love this so much!Β If only this had been so, and was still today!!!
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pecuthegreat [2018-12-26 13:33:52 +0000 UTC]
Highly doubt a jewish empire would name the area of the holy land, Palestine
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TurtleKipps33 [2017-12-16 01:09:42 +0000 UTC]
Great work on this map, great quality.But I must say I am opposed to Israel in all respects.Β May Palestine be strong! Β But nice art work
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dsivis [2017-04-13 23:30:05 +0000 UTC]
Bagistenan?
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123456789JD In reply to dsivis [2017-04-25 14:15:13 +0000 UTC]
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dsivis In reply to 123456789JD [2017-04-27 23:57:50 +0000 UTC]
Well, more Arabo-Judea. There were actually several Jewish Arab tribes in late antiquity/early medieval era, some of which informed Mohammed's...complex relationship with Jews.Β
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123456789JD In reply to dsivis [2017-04-28 00:15:11 +0000 UTC]
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dsivis In reply to 123456789JD [2017-04-28 02:56:02 +0000 UTC]
I was referring to Arabs IOTL.Β
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123456789JD In reply to dsivis [2017-04-28 20:53:31 +0000 UTC]
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YanuchiUchiha In reply to 123456789JD [2018-09-02 10:09:16 +0000 UTC]
The Arab Muslim caliphates were more tolerant to other religions than the Christian states of the time
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YanuchiUchiha In reply to 123456789JD [2018-09-02 17:06:03 +0000 UTC]
Not really, many Christians lived in Muslim Spain and were doing well.
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YanuchiUchiha In reply to 123456789JD [2018-09-02 19:37:19 +0000 UTC]
Keep thinking that...
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And You will be perfect for Trumpland
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YanuchiUchiha In reply to 123456789JD [2018-09-03 11:43:49 +0000 UTC]
You do realise that only extremists and terrorist "Muslim" groups do decapitations, right?
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YanuchiUchiha In reply to 123456789JD [2018-09-03 16:04:36 +0000 UTC]
There are Muslims in my country and they are nice... nicer than the Christians in any case lol
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dsivis In reply to 123456789JD [2017-04-29 02:17:23 +0000 UTC]
That's true, pan-Arabism didn't happen before Mohammed. However, they did have similar languages and culture, although their religious diversity was impressive, being a mix of Christian, Jewish, and Pagan tribes.Β
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123456789JD In reply to dsivis [2017-04-29 02:25:25 +0000 UTC]
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EricVonSchweetz [2016-08-09 12:25:19 +0000 UTC]
Arabs inΒ Imperium Iudaicum (ARALDYANA) 900 AD = ded
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BadgingBadger [2015-09-16 18:56:49 +0000 UTC]
What exactly is bagistenism?
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Pischinovski [2015-07-04 16:37:37 +0000 UTC]
"Jews who spoke other langauges, never used the names of these languages."
I can sadly neither read nor write the Hebrew script, so I can unfortunatly not really research how for example places were called in Jiddish. But I can look up how places were called in English, german and Swedish. A quick look through the original German version of Theodor Herzl's "The Jewish State" gives me the impression that he used German place names not Hebrew ones ("PalΓ€stina" instead of a word from the bible). I guess that other authors ofcourse might have used other words than Herlz did and they may have used Hrebrew ones but I can't agree with you when you say that "Jews [...] never used the names of these languages."
Hebrew is also not the dominant language of this state. Arabic and Aramaic are much more important in everyday life and even as the language of culture and literature. You also have to take into account that this Empire is very young - only a few years old by the date of the map - a "Hebrewization" of "Biblicalzatition" of place names may accure later when the Jewish empire has ruled for a longer time.
I am thankful for your input I hope I can come to you for advive when I elaborate on this time period and world region.
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bolter21 [2015-04-15 11:20:34 +0000 UTC]
The names are so wrong...Β
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bolter21 In reply to Pischinovski [2015-07-03 21:36:55 +0000 UTC]
For 3000 years we use the same names in the same langauge so...
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Pischinovski In reply to bolter21 [2015-07-03 22:20:31 +0000 UTC]
This might be correct for Hebrew that has been mostly a language of literature for around 2000 years but any language that is spoken in every day life will change. As did for example Aramaic (which I partly used for this map). The Imperial Aramaic of the Achaemenid empire is a lot different to the Aramaic (or better Syriac) dialects spoken today. Another example is Latin. The "classical" Latin of Cicero's times is not so different from the Latin scholars used until the 19th century, but this is because it was a language mostly used for written works. The Latin that was actually spoken around Cicero's time, the Vulgar Latin (Latin of the common people) has changed a lot since antiquity - today we call it French, Italian, Spanish and so on. Or just look at the language we are communicating in: English. It got a whole lot of novelties Old English or Common Germanic didn't have.
In this timeline (but that the map can't show) the Hebrew of the Torah will not change a bit and won't differ from our timeline, but this is because Hebrew was already a dead language by the point of divergence of this timeline. All languages that exist by the point of divergence wil change under the course of the timeline. Languages are shaped by history. Just ask JRR Tokien, who wrote the Lord of the Rings to fit his made-up languages or look once again to the English language. If the Angles, Jutes and Saxons would have never migrated to Britain they would never have come in contact with languages that have a progressive verb form, they would have never been conquered by French-speaking Normans that they loaned words from like "conquer", "language", "divergence" or "people".
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bolter21 In reply to Pischinovski [2015-07-04 14:26:57 +0000 UTC]
But these are names. Not language, names written in the bible that every kid (in this empire) learns.
Today we call places with no connection to the Jewish people with their old biblical names such as:
Tsidon - Sidon
Tsur - Sur (Tyre)
Azzah - Gaza,
Prat and Hidekel -Β Euphrates and Tigris,Β
Haleb - Aleppo
Schem - Nablus
Jews who spoke other langauges, never used the names of these languages. They said "We are going to Eretz Yisrael" not "We are going to Land of Israel".Β
Yersuhalaim insteed of Jerusalem. Yafo insteed of Jaffa, Yehuda insteed of Judea, Shomron insteed of Samaria etc.
The Saxons didn't have a "holy book" that gaved them premenent names. Even when the Chrisitans ruled the country, the Jews reffered it as Edom and not Jerusalem because this is the name that the Jews chose to name it, over the historical tradition of Edom.Β
And BTW, don't belive to what people are telling you, Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew are acually the same, they are closer to each other then Canadian French and French French.
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KingoftheTyrants In reply to bolter21 [2017-11-26 05:49:50 +0000 UTC]
Modern Hebrew and Biblical Hebrew are not the same. They're similar, but no the same. And the reason they're so similar is because for the longest time Hebrew was a scholarly language, not a language actually spoken by people for everyday use. So it didn't change. If Hebrew never became a dead language and was the predominant language of the Jews for thousands of years it would have changed significantly, probably to the point where a modern Hebrew speaker would not understand and ancient Hebrew speaker.
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The-Polybius [2015-03-21 11:22:48 +0000 UTC]
Awesome it means that there will be a Jewish world instead of an Islamic one and that Islam wil be a small religion, not that I want that but it makes for a smart and interesting alternate history!
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Ennio444 [2015-02-03 02:16:01 +0000 UTC]
Perozdavid, eh? Nice map.
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fredrikslicer [2015-01-19 11:55:49 +0000 UTC]
Certainly never seen this scenario before cudos
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Xanthoc [2015-01-17 20:26:41 +0000 UTC]
Out of curiosity, has the Jewish faith reformed to allow conversion ITTL? Because unless they have, religious tensions throughout the Empire are probably in the multitude, unless some sort of total religious freedom is allowed (although from what I grasp from the description, it doesn't seem to be the case). If they, as it seems, have barred any sort of non-Abrahamic public worship and temples, but don't allow non-Jews to become part of the faith (likely having subjugated nations worship Jews/Hebrews as superior and also forced to worship the God of Abraham), the Empire probably won't last very long, no matter how brutal the Jews are in assuring obedience.
Great map either way.
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Xanthoc In reply to Pischinovski [2015-01-19 00:29:33 +0000 UTC]
By conversion I meant gaining equivalent status, as (at least theoretically in the laws of the Talmud), 'converts' to Judaism are still gentiles/goyim, and are thus still lesser to Jews themselves. So, either Jews ITTL will have to omit that part (as most do OTL) to view converts as equal, regardless of ethnic background, or there's going to be a caste system/hierarchy. Both are plausible, especially if the hierarchy has a sort of 'honorary Jews' type system for those who convert, follow laws strictly, marry a Jew, etc. Just something to think about with a TL like this.
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dave-ian-heart [2015-01-17 17:00:55 +0000 UTC]
the nightmare of muslims
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RogueLeader1000 In reply to dave-ian-heart [2015-03-21 01:06:28 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, but not in this timeline, as Islam apparently doesn't exist. Middle East will probably be much quieter though!
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AvatarVyakara In reply to RogueLeader1000 [2015-04-10 13:09:36 +0000 UTC]
Personally, I'm not so sure, especially if the Christians in Europe decide it's about time for a crusade against the "Jesus-killing infidels", so to speak, while the Jewish Empire might begin to feel threatened by the "barbaric renegade foreign pagan worshippers". Not to mention the fact that Zorastrianism is still around.
Lovely map!
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mdc01957 [2015-01-17 15:17:54 +0000 UTC]
So essentially, the rise of Islam is replaced by a Jewish explosion?
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Cheetaaaaa [2015-01-16 16:32:05 +0000 UTC]
Seems like it covers almost all ancient semitic areas.
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Pischinovski In reply to Cheetaaaaa [2015-01-18 16:42:52 +0000 UTC]
It should be the majority. It lacks Egypt and the Punic areas of Carthago but by thi spoint there are not many left that speak Punic.
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