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QuantumBranching — German Islam

#alternate #germanic #history #islam #map #different #religions
Published: 2017-03-28 06:49:09 +0000 UTC; Views: 26119; Favourites: 144; Downloads: 197
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Description OK, map based on a scenario by Venusian Si over at alternatehistory.com. It's not on the publicly accessible parts of the site, so I'll post it complete later if he lets me. Here's a shorter version:



In this world, the late Roman penetration of Christianity into the German lands would lead to a reaction, in the form of a Mohammed-like figure, who in the story as it would be told would take a walk at night in a holy grove, and be overcome with visions. Syncretizing Christianity with various elements of Germanic belief, this monotheistic-with-some-frills religion would be an expansionist one, claiming to be an original truth than Christians and Jews had forgotten and would have to be reminded of, by the sword if necessary. So when the Germanic invasions got underway, it would be a religious crusade as well as a territorial migration...


Some elements carried over from Germanic myth: there were still sacred groves, although human sacrifice was forbidden, for nature was holy, a gift from God to man, a thing of beauty and occasionally terror - the notion, so often popular in Christianity, that we inhabited a Fallen world which would be put to order during the End Times (all those annoying mountains flattened out, for instance) was missing. Similar to Islam in it's universality and tolerance to the "people of the book" (never mind it took a couple centuries for the writings of the Enlightened One to be put onto vellum), the new faith was also different in many ways: it did not have the whole "succession problem" of Islam, in that descent from the Enlightened One was not considered necessary for a ruler, nor was the division of ruler and ruled that led many Islamic states OTL to create armies of slaves they could rely on. Jarls and Kings continued to sit relatively secure on their thrones and Moots and Things of various sorts remained influential, as long as they stuck to the principles of the faith. Submission was to God.


(I have named the faith "Submission" in honor of the very fine "Viking Islam" TL created by Anthony Mayer back in the 00's on soc.history.what-if. Some of it can be found here  or here  but the search function on yahoo groups is, alas, crap.)


Christianity would not be wiped out, but would survive on the southern side of the Mediterranean, and retained footholds in the Balkans and Iberia from which it would be able to carry out a reconquista of sorts (more successfully in the west than east), aided by a tendency of Submission states (I'm not saying Submissive, sounds silly) towards fragmentation (the old multiple sons problem in the absence of a semi-divine universal ruler), and would, like Islam OTL, expand by horse and camel across the Sahara and by boat from Arabia to East Africa. The contest between Christianity and Submission would continue, with Submission (once it had gotten the trick of primogeniture down) gaining an edge from the generally dictatorial tendencies of the Christian states (with the Roman papacy snuffed in the cradle, the tendency was for secular rulers to also be the leaders of their own churches, and the OTL influence of Germanic semi-democratic traditions removed, the Roman High Imperial model tended to be the norm), which if allowing impressive coordination and resources under strong, competent rulers, also tended towards inflexibility and disaster under long-lived bad ones. Competition would continue in the Americas, and beyond.


In the modern day China, "pagan" China is unquestionably Top Country, having turned more outward looking and never fallen as far behind technologically as OTL (conflicts on three continent discouraged complacence, and if China did fall behind for a while, it never fell so far that it couldn't extract unacceptable costs from a would-be conqueror). The worlds of Christianity and Submission have to some extent kissed and made up in a more secular and scientific era, although neither is quite as secular as the OTL Christian-more-or-less west (think of a world made up of variants on OTL religiosity and you'll be not too far off.  ) and are concentrating on (1), not being bought and sold by the Chinese, and (2), dealing with advanced global warming, worse in a TL where industrialized modernity is rather more widely spread...


So, here's the map. Some spelling errors are deliberate to indicate divergence in languages and spelling conventions, so don't be so swift to tell me I screwed up there. China has a lot of economic influence all over the place, but it's busy and note-filled enough, so taken it as given.


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Comments: 27

GrandAdmiralofBRTX [2022-08-15 16:52:56 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Vexilogic [2021-12-24 23:53:05 +0000 UTC]

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Whiteshore1 [2021-03-08 10:09:43 +0000 UTC]

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ibrahim206 [2018-09-08 18:51:16 +0000 UTC]

How is tech like in this world?

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howaboutthathumanity [2017-11-25 05:49:23 +0000 UTC]

I wonder, what would be the god of Submission be called? 

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Whiteshore1 [2017-09-23 14:33:57 +0000 UTC]

Is the capital of "African Rome" Carthage by any chance? If so, Hannibal must be spinning in his grave.

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dffssss [2017-06-07 21:39:38 +0000 UTC]

[Disgusted in German]

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123456789JD [2017-04-10 23:37:50 +0000 UTC]

So is OTL Islam still a thing or was it butterflied away?

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QuantumBranching In reply to 123456789JD [2017-05-01 04:56:14 +0000 UTC]

It was butterflied, although there are at least three brands of Arab Christianity, all of which are considered heretical by the Roman successor states. 

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hobbydude876 [2017-04-02 16:20:27 +0000 UTC]

What happen to the usa and South america

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paireon In reply to hobbydude876 [2017-04-03 19:30:51 +0000 UTC]

Point of divergence was loooonng before the Americas were discovered. Having the same countries would just be silly.

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bensen-daniel [2017-03-30 12:32:46 +0000 UTC]

But you missed such an opportunity to break away from Latin terminology! The Old English word for "Submission" was éaðmédu (literally ease-sending), which would have evolved into "Easmead." (it even sounds kind of like "Islam")

verb: easmead (to prostrate yourself, to adore, to humble yourself)
adjective: easmeadly (humble, respectful)
noun: easmeading (humility)

noun: Easmead (the name of the religion)
adjective: Easmeadish (of Easmead)
person: Easeheart (a follower of Easmead)

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OttoVonSuds In reply to bensen-daniel [2017-04-01 17:14:54 +0000 UTC]

Oh hey, that's great. I'll keep it in mind even if I ever do anything involving germanic not-islam.

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bensen-daniel In reply to OttoVonSuds [2017-04-18 12:32:30 +0000 UTC]

Any excuse for conlanging!

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123456789JD [2017-03-30 00:38:22 +0000 UTC]

So is this "German Islam" inspired by Germany's acceptance of so many Muslim "refugees" and "migrants"?

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QuantumBranching In reply to 123456789JD [2017-05-01 04:58:16 +0000 UTC]

Nope, just a "geography flip" with *Islam in the north and Christianity in the south rather than the other way around. The chap I did this commission for just chose Germany as an origin point because Germans had the numbers and the warrior skillz to spread the new faith across most of Europe. 

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123456789JD In reply to QuantumBranching [2017-05-01 11:35:45 +0000 UTC]

So German Islam is the same as OTL Islam just in Europe?

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PinkJenkin [2017-03-29 20:30:39 +0000 UTC]

Awesome map! This might be my favorite one yet, it's just so perfect in its idea and execution! 10/10

Funnily enough, there was a Swedish 17th century scholar/royal teacher/occultist who claimed that the Germanic world in general and Sweden in particular had the original One True Monotheistic Faith, connected to runes and rune magic, and that Judaism and Christianity were just semi-pagan knockoffs.

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OttoVonSuds [2017-03-28 18:50:18 +0000 UTC]

Does Submission feature orgies as a rite, like toynbee's speculation about what a christianity submerged by norse paganism might have ended up having?

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QuantumBranching In reply to OttoVonSuds [2017-05-01 05:00:34 +0000 UTC]

That didn't come up in conversation. Anyway, it's (mostly) Monotheism rather than Polytheism, so it's rather different from a Norse pagan takeover of Christianity as in "The Hammer and the Cross."

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UraniumUtopia [2017-03-28 17:30:12 +0000 UTC]

This is amazing!  I certainly do hope he lets you post the full story, I'd love to hear to more about the religion!

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BadgingBadger [2017-03-28 16:45:10 +0000 UTC]

"Odin is the only god, and Thor is his messenger"

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chaotic-nipple In reply to BadgingBadger [2017-04-03 22:47:21 +0000 UTC]

I find your ideas intriguing, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

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LogoP [2017-03-28 11:51:21 +0000 UTC]

What a bizzare, alien world. Pretty colourful though. Nice work in tackling such an ancient POV.

Btw, did you change your font?

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QuantumBranching In reply to LogoP [2017-05-01 05:01:13 +0000 UTC]

Decided to go with Tunga for notes on the map because it's more readable at small font sizes. 

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Todyo1798 [2017-03-28 11:27:05 +0000 UTC]

Sort of reminds me of Lions Blood, where Christianity goes down hard and African Muslims discover the Americas, but the Vikings basically act as OTL Arab slave traders.

Except this sort of makes sense and the other one was a fucking mess.

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mdc01957 [2017-03-28 10:51:46 +0000 UTC]

This is definitely interesting, seeing what Islam would be like with Germanic paganism rather than 7th Century Arab culture as the basis.

Though it also looks like Submission doesn't include Sharia in that timeline too.

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