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R-ninja — APH - Heir of Rome
Published: 2010-05-31 11:51:22 +0000 UTC; Views: 48690; Favourites: 1487; Downloads: 305
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HRE vs Byzantine – a battle of the Roman successors!There was always a lot of tension between these two in regards to the title of 'Rome'. Byzantine was the obvious choice by way of culture and society, but as he did not possess the city of Rome, many did not see him as a true 'successor', instead referring to him as the "Empire of the Greeks". This wasn't disputed so much by his allies in the East, who would continue to call him Rome. The Holy Roman Empire, meanwhile, was obliged to add "Holy" to his name to avoid any nasty complications. Even the title of 'Emperor' caused some dispute, and the tensions between these two sides would run on for many years, worsened by the Great Schism. Some held hopes that one day the empires could be united, alas, it was not to be.
Obviously this Byzantine is an OC – even with volume 3, there's still no confirmation on who they are. In this case, he is Rome and ancient Greece's son, placed in charge of the Eastern part of the Roman Empire towards the end of his father’s life. He is shrewd and serious, preferring to settle his disputes with words rather than by arms. Regardless, he is very strong in battle, having a number of tricks up his sleeve. He is deeply religious, and has a great appreciation for art. A master manipulator, he is also known to throw money at his problems rather than deal with them using force.
Not sure how accurate Byzantine's footwear is here (using medieval art for reference), but hopefully nothing is too out of place
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Comments: 159
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after the fall of the Western Empire and the loss of their Western possessions, the Eastern Romans themselves called themselves Basileía Rhômaíôn, which meant the Kingdom of the Romans in Greek!
and the Basileía Rhômaíôn (former Eastern Roman Empire) was the only legitimate successor of the Roman Empire, not the Hre who was only a vulgar attempt to usurp the Roman heritage!
the Byzantine term dates from the 19th century I believe?
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Successor? Byzantium WAS Rome. This notion of a successor state is an invention of post-byzantine westerners uncomfortable with the Ottomans inheriting the Roman legacy.
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Well, ignoring for the moment that ignorantly reductionist racism, the Ottomans claimed its inheritance by right of conquest, a perfectly legitimate form of cultural absorption in those days. Reprehensible now, to be sure, but most people don't hold the Normans to that sort of standard despite doing the exact same thing.
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Okay, well, enjoy rolling around in your racist mud pool. God knows it's done wonders for others, I'm sure.
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Which has what to do with anything? At what point have questions of leadership and mutual understanding been even remotely resolved by one side or another beginning with the premise that the other is unworthy to regard as an equal?
If you don't want to consider the inevitability of that question, let me pose a simpler one: What is attained - literally what do you gain from - regarding an entire people of diverse individuals as being inherently lesser? The only reason to hold such views is so that you can justify something to yourself.
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Explain this truth, then. I've met plenty of people who believe that they, or their particular group of people is better than someone else's, and they've all been for different reasons. What arbitrary line in the sand have you designated to be the division between the better human beings, and the lesser human beings?
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"Inbred mongrel" is a contradiction in terms.
And if that's all you're judging an entire race on, then you have nothing. They're not inbred, or they'd all be dying out from genetic defects, and I'm afraid that all humans are mongrels in the literal sense. Otherwise we'd all be dying of inbreeding.
All divisions between human beings are shallow social ones that ultimately don't mean anything. Dismissing minor issues of superficial surface appearances, there's barely a pin to choose between any of us. We're the same species. The only thing here that history has brought forth is that you're feeding into the same tribalistic nonsense that has spread misery and death since human history began.
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You use quite loose and unspecific terms. Like "countries that have no history but for mud and dirt". That means nothing when you're talking about a people who have a rich culture and once formed one of the most successful empires in human history. "They breed with their cousins and breed like rabbits". Little more than childish name-calling that speaks volumes more of your ignorance than it does anyone else.
And just let me be clear about something here in case you get any wrong ideas. If you were a Turk, and spewing this vile , troglodite nonsense at me about Europeans, I'd be saying the exact same thing to them.
And no, I don't want IQ statistics, because IQ doesn't mean anything. Trying to measure intelligence with a single test is like trying to find out every possible shade of colour by referencing a kids book on rainbows.
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The Middle East were creating large empires and impressive monuments thousands of years before Rome was even founded. Akkad, Urr 3, the Kassite Empire, The Babylonian empire, Mittani, the Assyrians, the Hittites, the Neo-Babylonians, not to mention the Egyptians, the Medes, the Ilammites, the Davidic kingdom of Israel, and the Phoenician thalassocracy, which eventually led to the Carthaginian empire.
And not to mention, during the time of Rome, the Middle East was owned by either Rome or the Persians until the rise of the Rashidun Caliphate. If they were building mud huts it was under the jurisdiction of the Romans, the Parthians, or the Sassanids. But they weren't. They had been building lavishly centuries before the first mud hut on the Tiber was ever built.
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I didn't list Persia.
Oh, I see. Cherry pick around the map to pick out parts that you don't like. Sorry, but the Arabian peninsula might not have been an empire, but there's still plenty of impressive buildings and projects historically represented in that area. Same thing with Bactria (modern Afghanistan).
And under Islam they downgraded, huh? Not a very astute student of history are you. From the period of the Rashidun Caliphate until the period of the Seljuks, the Islamic world was the most culturally and scientifically advanced civilisation on earth (China having fractured at this point in time.) It was only when the Mongols obliterated most of the Islamic empires that the standard of living declined. Europe by contrast at that point was years behind.
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Yeah, see, you're just factually wrong. Your prejudice against particular ethnicities won't allow you to look at history with any degree of objectivity. I have no particular love for either Christianity nor Islam, I find them to be both be snake-oil placebos at best, and insidious diseases on whatever society they touch at worst, but that doesn't blind me to the marvels people have achieved in their name. Eastern Rome is one of my favourite periods of history to study, but it doesn't half bug the shit out of me that they allowed internecene arguments about which version of god is the right one to allow the Caliphate to devour half of the empire.
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Because they weren’t. As much as I’d have preferred that eastern Rome didn’t fall, and believe me I’d have loved for Rome to still exist in some form to today, I’m not going to demean the memory of Rome by pretend that their conquers weren’t worthy of it. It’s not like civilization stopped the moment the Turks rolled in.
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Filioque!
No Filioque!
Yes!
No!
YES!
NO!
....and so on, and on and on, until Turkey sneaks up, stabs one in the back, cutting off his hand with the Sophia ring on it, and the other in the foot.
This is your fault, because you didn’t agree with me!
No! It’s yours because you didn’t agree with ME!
Fool!
Heretic!
Wait, let’s get together over here at Lepanto for a bit.
Ok!
(Working together, they gloriously kick Turkey’s ass)
See! We can get along if we try!
Yes indeed, praise God!
Now, when will your Patriarchs swear loyalty to The Pope?
What, why should they? They should all swear mutual brotherhood to one another as equals! He just happens to be first!
Well that is true, except for his emergency veto powers.
WHAT?
Well, just once every few centuries or so, VERY rarely, there are infallibly authoritative decisions that can’t wait for a synod and have to be done on the fly to nip a heresy in the bud—
NO! That’s not how it works! There MUST be a Synod for infallibility, no exceptions!
But VERY VERY rarely, under dire circumstances, something preposterous becomes extremely popular extremely fast, like, God forbid, a heresy advocating for priestesses, which could become an unstoppable movement by the time enough bishops have agreed to meet—-
NO! I don’t care! If they scenario happened, I’d, um, God would make them hurry up! Yeah, he wouldn’t let it get that far!
Well, he wouldn’t let it because He gave the Pope emergency veto powers—-
NO! He did not!
Yes He did—-
NOT!
Yes!
No!
Fool!
Heretic...
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I love you Bizantine OC, ¿Can you Draw a Sassanid and Arabian and relate the Arab-Byzantine Wars?
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You know, I actually originaly planned to draw Byzantine Empire myself based on the deviations I saw from Google. But turns out, it was made by you...
I won't do it anymore. I can't copy yours!
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Daw! That's adorable! However, I go for Team Byzantine!
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The HRE is a very funny thing, It's not Roman because it's obviously German, It's not an Empire since you vote the ruler and it's not Holy because really....What makes HRE holy? Nothing right
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HRE somehow reminds me of Damian Wayne in this one...
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I my god I love it!
Thanks you for drawing Byzantium! Every one seems to ingore him while he's obviously amazing
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what do you use to draw people?
I suck at it
If it's not too much to ask...
Do you have any tips on how to do hands and faces?
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Well the Turks ended this dispute in 1453^^
And Napoleon ended the Roman Empire in 1806 indirectly :/
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Great work and concept. Makes me wish I knew hetalia a long time ago...and makes me want to know how to watch more episodes.
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Culturally Byzantine is more roman, but when it came to ass-whooping HRE is very roman ( I mean come on charlemagne is badass).
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