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rationalhub — Modern Education and Independence of Mind
Published: 2012-05-25 08:13:21 +0000 UTC; Views: 2218; Favourites: 32; Downloads: 38
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Noam Chomsky on how Schools value discipline and obedience over freethinking.PS: Photograph credits to Tiffany ([link] ) - thanks so much, Tiff!
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The entire time that I read this, I kept imagining the gnome from Left 4 Dead 2 reading it with an irish accent.
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Greetings rationalhub, I would just like to say hello and thank you.
Never more so have I come across a gallery on deviantart whose postings have influenced me. It isn't just this one quote, but quotes on religion, education and science. Thank you for putting all these up, because I feel like my view is broadened when we consider just how miniscule we are in the universe.
Nowadays I find it pointless to watch things on television, things such as the news and sports. I have read books of classic writers who have given me lessons that I feel I will never forget.
Once again, thank you. Please continue to do your work and inspire others in the process.
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Depends. Vast majority of kids aren't thinkers to begin with. Actually, that goes for people in general. Not because of education, just by virtue of their nature. Chomsky is brilliant, but overstates some things -- this being an example. People shouldn't cling too much to this statement. Very rarely are the people that skip school reading something worthwhile, much less thinking about anything worthwhile. Schools don't normally punish independence of mind, though that depends on how someone really defines that or how far spanning that is. Freethinking is not oppressed in this modern era, not in school or general society.(Well, in any developed nation, that is) Eh, Chomsky disappoints me here a bit. I was never a fan of him.
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It's not just schools, the whole society
How many parentssay to their kids "don't be a smartass"?
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You really do have to have a good bullshit detector when attending institutions of higher learning. Some teachers do not want you to think at all, in fact, they make serious attempts to destroy what ability of thought you do possess. Many of them have a cold, depraved, mechanistic view of humanity and their purpose in "teaching" is to produce homogenous, docile worker bees for the "good" of the colony. The degree to which you succeed after University is IMO closely related to the degree in which you emerge from this process unscathed by their incessant brain-bashing.
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This is why most of the time I'm almost silent in class, unless nobody else knows the answer or I just can't resist a smart remark. I don't have straight-A's, and I never will, because that would require me to just take in information and spit it out, and that's just not the way I work. I'm the kind of kid that, when assigned a book, will have finished reading it in two days. In my English class, we're reading The Alchemist. So far, in the class time we were supposed to read it in, I've read it three times, plus Catch-22 and an issue of Wired magazine. Even fell asleep a few times.
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A bit deep but it does make me think ... and likely that is the point of the statement.
I can not help but remember my experiences in science class when I was in Jr High. I was in 7th grade "Earth Science" ...the name is a bit misomenr as it covered also introduction to Astronomy as was as geology ect. (8th year was "Life Science") While the few weeks for Astromony I would ask the teacher questions she had no idea about.
Turns out I've been reading recent issues of Discover and new books on Astronomy, but my teacher didn't. This was in the 80's so Black Holes were still a theory but were acknowleged. A few brave sciencists had explored the thory, including suggesting what goes in must come out..even if its in a different dimension...and called it a 'white hole'.
I asked the teacher what she thought about the theory of the supposed white holes, and what about the failed stars that she hasn't mentioned except the supernovae, like Brown dwarves. And what were quasars & pulsars. I had asked becasue she asked if we had any questions and I had a lot. Turns out she "did not like being put on the spot" or the other kids that that just laughed at me for 'stupid ideas'.
I could say she "punished my independance of mind" by ignoring me for rest of the year. she would grade my work and such but didn't like to call on me when I had a question.
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Too bad we don't have a thumbs up button here at DA!
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:LOL: too true ... but then by logic, there would ahve to be a thumbs down too ...though sometimes that would be a good thing too :LOL:
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I doubt if that is a universal feature, though. Teachers need to be strict out of necessity- sadly, very few children are bright enough to voice an intelligently formed disagreement with what is taught, but all too many are ready to disrupt class for the sake of sophomoric ridicule.
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The question is if that's the inherent issue of Children being "less intelligent" or does that reflect the inefficacy of the system in itself? And I don't the it implies discipline is entirely unnecessary though - it's about prioritization of education over discipline rather, and in that sense it's still valid.
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It's not that children are less intelligent (a child could easily sport a higher IQ than his teacher), but that they do not have the mental facilities to access their full potential yet. They are ignorant- that's why they are in school to begin with. Out of necessity, they need to sit down and listen. Now, a good teacher is supportive and encouraging, not stifling- I think the quote is unfair in its generalization. What's the option- no school at all?
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Yes, so? Feeding them a certain set of confined, pre-decided stuff is helping? Either way, again, it's NOT about "letting kids loose" - as I'd said earlier - no part of the quote implies that - but it's how often they forget that the priority is education, not discipline. And that's not uncommon at all. In fact at the risk of making a generalization based on a small sample size etc - I've shared this on multiple platforms and a considerably large number of people related with the Quote.
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The situation the quote mentions- staying at home "because you read a book or something" is in fact something I would consider punishable- if you skip a day of school, you need a valid reason. I do not disagree in the point in itself, but I think the quote is generalizing and not formed as well as it could be.
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