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Ristorr — The Mandorla (Theory)
#undertale #undertale_game #undertalefanart
Published: 2016-02-10 01:59:18 +0000 UTC; Views: 5692; Favourites: 245; Downloads: 13
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*Earlier* No! I will not make any arts with Undertale. No no no no*Play the game* Damn! I have to make art!!
Lol, I thought it's just another monotonous popular game or something. But when will learn the better, you know that this game is really worth attention. It's just awesome!
Next will be spoilers, so if you do not know anything about this game, it's best to read it after playthrough. Seriously.
So, here I came across a very interesting theory about W. D. Gaster. Original text here . English version below:
In the battle with Omega Flowey we can see the image of the "Tough Glove ", inside which is a symbol in the form of two intersecting circles. Maybe this is due to division Gaster.
The fact that these two circles is "Mandorla ". It is an ancient symbol that shows the relationship between opposites that were once broken and formed a "non-integer".
More about the symbol link
This may be the Sans and Papyrus. After all, if we compare them, we will notice that they are opposites in many ways.
Sans: low growth and rounded, said lowercase, nihilist, apathetic, smart and loves science and loves jokes, slovenly, is associated with blue, left-handed, round and wide eyes with pupils.
Papyrus: tall and angular, says in the upper register, optimistic and full of hope, naive and not to a very smart, can not tolerate bad puns, neat and tidy, connected with orange (orange and blue - "opposites" in the color theory of secondary colors ), the right-hander, narrow, "stretched vertically" eyes without pupils.
And if we had to connect these two characters, we would have gotten a man with great strength of will and energy to work on projects (which have Papyrus, but do not have Sans) and a brilliant mind and a love for science and knowledge (that is at Sans but do not have Papyrus).
Sans and Papyrus complement each other.
Also, we all know that Gaster created the Core, technology center with lots of puzzles. So if Sans and Papyrus created something together, it would be the CORE. Papyrus loves puzzles, and Sans - science and technology. In short it can be assumed that when Gaster fell down into the core, it is divided into several parts and some of these parts is Skelebro.
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*Раньше* Нет! Никаких артов с Андертейл. Не не не не
*Поиграла в игру* Черт! Я должна что-нибудь нарисовать, немедленно!!
Ндам, в общем подсадили таки… Думала очередная модная игруля или тип того, но после того как познакомишься поближе, понимаешь, что это эта обалденная игра безусловно достойна внимания! Далее будут cпойлеры, поэтому если вы еще не в теме, то лучше почитайте после прохождения. Серьезно!
Итак, наткнулась я тут на очень интересную теорию про Гастера, к сожалению у меня не осталось имени автора теории (Чувак прости!).
Тк вт, при битве с Флауи мы встречаем изображение «тяжелой перчатки» , внутри которой есть символ в виде двух пересекающихся кругов. Возможно это имеет отношение к разделению личности Гастера. Дело в том, что эти два круга «Мандорла » — древний символ, который показывает связь между противоположностями, которые когда-то были разорваны и образовали "нецелое".
Полная теория: sta.sh/01iwrdyt5vlv
Ссыль на символ (eng)
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Tumblr: ristorr.tumblr.com/post/158041…
P.S. События на картинке произошли после
What is shown in the picture could happen after that www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5HZ36…
Related content
Comments: 40
Gotta make some mandatory corrections here:
Papyrus actually makes even more puns than Sans in the game. He just appears to hate Sans's jokes specifically. He's also known to act dumb around Sans only, but shows signs of greater intelligence when alone (such can be observed from his phone calls). Furthermore, the only way that Papyrus is actually connected with the color orange is through his clothes. And that doesn't really tell us anything about his physiology. For what we know, he could be all about the color blue too, just like Sans. Lastly, orange and blue aren't exact opposites. I mean, the opposite of orange is a color that lies somewhere between cyan and blue. The opposite of pure blue is yellow and of cyan is red. They're only opposites if you establish yellow as a primary color, which however isn't correct, as it's green that is the 3rd primary color, aside from red and blue.
As for the division theory, it is entirely possible. However, the proof for this consists of nothing but pure correlations, no actual direct evidence.
I know it's been like 3 years since you have posted this, but... in my personal opinion, it's never too late to learn new things. But I understand why so many people like this head canon, it ties things up neatly.
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I agree, this theory has flaws, although it still looks interesting. There are still questions. Like
If Gaster got a holes in his arms when he fell. Why then did they appear only on the hands, and not on the whole body? The hole is strange damage when you fall into the core / time machine. Why only Sans remembers resets, why only he has blood/determination?
That's why, the theory where Gaster created them from his own hands is more logical for me. At least for now.
(Thanks to the author for the great fan fiction «A year every minute”. He perfectly reveals this theory in history).
btw, these two theories can be quite well connected together.
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I've never seen Gaster's hands as having holes, I think he was just holding them in an O shape.
As for Sans remembering resets, I know it may look that way, since he knows the precise amount of times you've reloaded during the final battle with him, but there's more proof that he does not recall the resets: nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/14…
And the blood that seeps out of him, funnily, has the same color as the ketchup at Grillby's, and no other liquid in the game has that exact shade of red. It's curious that it's colored red instead of being black & white like everything else, but that might just be because Toby wanted to give us a bit of a shock. I firmly do believe that it's ketchup.
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Well, Gaster's icon is very pixel, so it's hard to say whether it’s the position of the hands or holes. I think to argue here is meaningless.
Why we choose only one of two options: remembers resets or analysis. Both may be relevant at the same time. Maybe for the most part he observes, but also SOME events he can remember. For example the events that just happened and strong emotions were experienced.
Btw, if you kill monsters (a neutral route), on the bridge Sans will say the usual dialogue (why didn’t he give a warning now if he saw that we are killing monsters or we have an expression of someone who already killed). And if you kill Papyrus, then come back, only after that he will change the dialogue and say "don’t. capiche?" I think this moment can be attributed to memory too.
In theory with ketchup, I was always confused by this cut. The wound is red along the entire cut. If this is a damaged bottle of ketchup, then most likely it would look like a stain. Also this «blood» from the mouth. The explanation that ketchut spilled out through the skull sounds a bit strange. Maybe Toby wanted to confuse us. Who knows.
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I wouldn't say that Sans remembers. We can always attribute any such changes in the timeline to the effects of deja vu. Just like other characters faintly remembering you after you reset due to you being important to them, Papyrus's death could have been so devastating to Sans, that even though he didn't remember it, us going to fight him was nonetheless filling him with dread, hence why he chose different words.
That's one way to explain this without assuming that he remembers. Because if he did, we'd also need to find a different explanation for all those instances of Sans NOT remembering what had happened in the last reset. And there are plenty of them.
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How about an explanation: for the most part he remembers nothing like all the other monsters, but he can only remember one event —
when he counts the number of deaths. Why? Suppose this because of the huge hatred and strong emotions because everyone was killed.
The moment with Papyrus's death and all the rest are only a deja vu.
Or Sans remembers the last corridor and the moment with “dont”. The first is because there is a lot of hate,
and the second is because of the emotions from the brother's death. The rest is just a deja vu.
If we take the option where he doesn’t remember anything at all, only deja vu.
Then it is not clear how he remembered the number of deaths.
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He's supposedly good at reading facial expressions. But tbh it wouldn't surprise me if he had some device that could like... check any recent changes in the timeline. That's why he doesn't remember and needs to rely on guesswork most of the time, but here, he's utilizing this hypothetical device, so he does know. It's the only reasonable logical explanation I can think of, that doesn't involve a conditional amnesia. (since conditional rules are imo just a cheap way of saying "it works like that because I said so")
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«good at reading facial expressions»… This is a veeery strange explanation.
I can understand the expression of Frisk, who just killed someone. (creepy smile, mad look).
But to understand how many times they died by facial expression is super strange. IMHO
(If the number is written on the Frisk’s face, then it seems to be true )
The device would be cool. But there were no hints or proofs in the game that he was carrying it with him
or he has some other device besides a broken one. And he didn’t use something like that in other routs..
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Well, we can argue that it wasn't really necessary to use in other routes. And there doesn't need to be proof of this device, all that matters is that we have an explanation for how he can recount the timelines in this instance, but not anywhere else. Or maybe it's deja vu.
My philosophy with UT is, that when there's not enough info in the game to prove something, you can simply make something up to give it an explanation. And if it makes enough sense, people will generally just accept it as canon.
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I think proofs are needed, otherwise anyone can suppose ANYTHING at all.
Even any trash will have enough rights to exist.
And, as for me if there are no hints in the game, then this is just a fanon.
Welp, everyone has their own opinion on this.
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That creates a problem though. There is no concrete absolute proof for anything, there is always just indirect evidence. We can always prove something to a certain degree of probability, but never absolutely. For example, the evidence for Flowey being Asriel is very plentiful and very convincing, but still, none of it is direct proof I've noticed. Even the most obvious case, Flowey transforming into Asriel, could be regarded as a cheap magician's trick of two people trading places, as ridiculous as it sounds. Many people still debate the idea whether Chara is the narrator, even with the mountain of indirect evidence attached to it. And anything less probable than that is generally not accepted as canon, which also includes this Gaster theory.
Of course proof is needed, but ultimately, this fandom has settled on what "feels" correct instead of what objectively is correct.
I've just met a person on the UT Discord server who argues that Kris is the cyan human, that Deltarune is the original world of Undertale which will ultimately explain Gaster's downfall, and also that Sans is a darkner, aka one of the creatures living in the card-themed dimension who somehow got out and settled in the little town above where Kris and everyone lives.
It is a bit far fetched if you ask me or half of the entire fandom.
To amend my philosophy regarding UT, yes, precisely, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And the only way to assert that is by ensuring that no supposition is ridiculed for being "improbable", since probability is a subjective statement, not an objective one. I don't mind people talking theories through, but I dislike when someone acts as if their theory is superior. In that regard, I must apologize for my opening statement, I did sound a bit rude there. While it is true, there is plenty of evidence against the skelebros duality theory, it ultimately isn't impossible. I originally considered only one argument convincing enough to make me resentful towards it, and that was the photograph of the three people in Sans's basement. If Gaster split himself, there couldn't have been 3 people existing at once, only 1 or 2. But now I think that the photo rather represents the Deltarune trio, since it appears only after you talk to the Clam girl, who hinted at the coming of Deltarune shortly before its release, and also technically since the very beginning, with the mentioning of "Suzy". So if that piece of evidence fell flat, there really is no proof left to argue against this theory.
Though personally I dislike it, because I can't see a reason why would Gaster willingly split himself like that. And if it wasn't willingly, if this is how he actually died, then I cannot imagine how dying would turn you into two new people. Maybe it's just how monster souls work. And maybe it only works this way with skeletons. After all, many creatures reproduce asexually. But the idea is just a bit too far fetched for me. But you know, all of that is subjective reasoning. By all means, it could be true.
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Well, I can’t agree that there is no concrete absolute proof. I can understand why people argue about Chara,
but how can one doubt that Asriel is Flowey? Cheap magician's trick of two people trading places? Really? Okey.
Then why there is only this version? Applying this reasoning, Flowey may not be an experiment, but just another
monster, or hallucination, or he is an alien, or it’s actually Gaster, who changed his appearance, or he’s twin brother
of Asgore and Alphys conducted an experiment on him. You can invent absolutely any thing. And it will have as many
rights to exist as «magician's trick», because there is no evidence or refutation of this. You can come up with such
versions endlessly. Personally, I think this is just a waste of time and because like theories where there are the most proofs.
And if the transformation of Asriel is not absolute proof... well then nothing can be believed at all.
Yeah, I also do not mind that people make different theories. But there is a difference between a theory where there are arguments,
and just a fantasy.
Do not apologize, I am always interested to listen to the arguments of others and new facts, even if after that the theory may «die» х)
About Deltarune. I don’t bind these two games together at all. Maybe you saw a post from Toby, he said these are two different worlds.
But it’s not just death. As we recall, he fell into his invention. If that was the core, we do not know how it works, what kind of
energy is there and what happens when you get there. And yes, we know quite a bit about their souls.
If you still don't like it, or like some other strange theories, no prob. Your choice
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This is gorgeous! I love your usage of color here.
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О, я видела эту теорию раньше. Вроде у zarla. Только без символа и всего такого, а просто как предположение. Странное, но забавное.
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Более странная, разве что теория про Несса)
У меня вообще в голове были мысли, что Папирус - родной сын Гастера, а Санс - это скелет от человеческого ребенка, которому
ввели решимость. Поэтому то у него единственного из монстров и идет "кровь" при ранении. Вот, потом их двоих просто воспитали вместе.
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Я считаю что все эти теории в различной степени бредовые (и не стоит слишком привязываться к какой-то одной), но моя любимая - та, где Санс и Папирус были созданы Гастером из останков упавших детей.
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Проблема большинства теорий, что они не могут объяснить сразу все факты. Также теоретики могут чересчур увлечься и составить
целую теорию заговора, связав настолько несущественные детали, что вывод окажется малоправдоподобным.
Тк чт я обычно придерживаюсь той, которая имеет самые более менее логичные аргументы и отвечает на большее количество вопросов сюжета.
Мм, видела такой комикс, в вк, кажись.
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Я верю только в канон, т.е. вещи которые были сказаны автором прямо и четко.
А всем остальным я наслаждаюсь. Ну или игнорирую, если лажа.
>Мм, видела такой комикс, в вк, кажись.
Да, это откуда-то из комикса... Не скажу, впрочем, где его увидела или как он назывался... :/
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В принципе, так и делают)
Не важно, я поняла про какой ты комикс. Пока он один такой на эту тему.
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I like the colors and light effects on this.
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I am glad! Sometimes I like to paint in this style.
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Восхитительно! Люблю такую игру светотени, особенно тело Гастера) И скелееетики ))
Занятная теория, чел молодец, порылся в символогии))
Кстати, я тут сама порылась в этимологии, и оказывается, gastiz (позднее перешедшее в gastiR) связано со словом guest/гость. Но изначально оно значило "чужеземец, незнакомец" или даже "враг".
Задумайся. "Чужеземец". А если Гастер некогда был человеком? (началооось обсуждение теорий)) Попал в Андерграунд, был там на хорошем счету, построил ЯДРО, пока туда не шмякнулся))
А то Папирус в игре в какой-то момент забывает, что у него нет ушей. А потом еще и говорит Сансу, что хочет покрасить волосы)) Очевидно, память тела, или что-то в этом роде.
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Пасиба! Мне эта тема со светящимися штучками в темноте тоже всегда была по нраву, наверно, поэтому на мой взгляд одна из красивейших локаций - Вотерфолл)
Чем меня еще эта теория порадовала, так это представление: какой же тогда будет характер у Гастера, если он будет складываться из поведений этих двоих Х)
Уууу все, понеслась))
Во-во, то что он "враг" еще и Риверчел намекает "Beware of the man who speaks in hands". Но он говорит это только Фриск, человеку. Т.е. Гастер при жизни был ооочень враждебно настроен к людям. (и, вероятно, по сей день также что-то затевает, но уже в виде призрака) Очевидно, он и Азгор в свое время сошлись во мнении, что человечество нужно торкнуть, и так Гастер быстренько поднялся в должности и стал королевским ученым. И вообще, многие его проекты были против людей - аппарат, вытаскивающий душу из тела человека; даже оружие - бластеры, возможно, поэтому они так хорошо и действуют против нас, поскольку были специально разработаны под человека -_-
Тогда, возможно, до войны он будучи человеком мирненько проводил исследования над особенностями природы монстров и людей. Началась война. Гаст был против, заступался за монстров, вот его и закинули в подземелье вместе со всеми. Так он и озлобился на людей.
И если он был человеком, то как стал монстром? Может, он по какой-то причине он умер или проводил эксперименты, и смог привязать свою душу с помощью магии монстров к костям, таким образом, после смерти тело разложилось, а скелет остался.
А это мысль) Нда-с, те фразы от Папса реально звучали очень странно))
Что еще необычно: когда все выходят на поверхность, Папирус спрашивает про солнце: "Санс, что это за гигантский шар?" С:"Мы зовем это солнцем, мой друг" При этом все остальные знали, что это солнце, даже до этого Андайн сказала: "Какой приятный солнечный свет". Но если Гастер был на поверхности, то по идее и Папирус и Санс должны его помнить. Может разделение произошло некорректно, и у Папса вообще не осталось памяти о прошлом. Или это все та же идея противоположности: один помнит все, другой ничего.
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Вот тебе и фьюжн из СтивенЮниверс хД
Интересно, шутковал ли Гастер аки Санс при таком раскладе?
А мне тут пришла в голову крамольная мысля, что твой любимый Риверчел - это сам Тоби Фокс в маскировке О_о
А то после эпичного дяди Скотта во ФНАФ Ворлде я такому не удивлюсь х)
Или Гаст, как и Чара, был человеком, но вообще мизантропом по натуре. А "омонстрился" как все марвеловские злодеи, тоже надышался газку какого-нибудь или пролил на себя чего-нибудь. Или просто опыты проводил на себе.
'Who is the monster, and who is the man?
Sing the bells of Norte Dame!" (напомнило, лол)
Очень может быть. Видать, Сансу больше долговременной памяти досталось)
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