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Rob-Cavanna — French Mech

Published: 2012-03-02 20:24:12 +0000 UTC; Views: 12543; Favourites: 154; Downloads: 0
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Description Armament:
Head: 7.5 mm Reibel machine gun
Right Hand: 75 mm howitzer
Left hand: 47 mm cannon + 7.5 mm MG combo weapon.

Crew: 4
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History:

When the French designed Charlemagne first appeared in the mid 1930s, it could easily be considered the most powerful specimen of walking armor in the world. Like the Char B-1 Bis, with which it shared both a myriad of mechanical components and factory space, the Charlemagne was very advanced for its era. During the Invasion of France, even the Pzf IV Seigmund, Germany’s best walking panzer of the time, had little hope against the much heavier armed and armored Charlemagne. France’s precious few defending Charlemagnes instead fell prey to other forces, such as artillery, and dive bombers, as much as native issues like poor tactical usage and insufficiently trained crews. Regrettably, the average French Military Commander’s understanding of rapid armored warfare was lacking enough with regard to conventional tanks, let alone something so cutting edge and tactically nuanced as a walking one.

Only in retrospect to the early years of WWII does the origin of the Charlemagne raise eyebrows among the Allies. Had the new technology been more in the international spotlight before the outbreak of war, perhaps then the Allies would have detected a major conspiracy which directly fueled the Nazi war machine, essentially jump-starting Germany’s own Pzf (panzer zu fuss) program. Hitler’s boisterous proclamations that the technology of walking armor was Germanic in origin, is mostly truthful. But the 3rd Reich’s sudden manifestation of armored colossus in 1939 would never have happened without the pioneering of France’s (then) superior arms industry that culminated in the Charlemagne weapon platform.

Though it would have been better to ask in 1939, the question remains, “If walking tanks are a German born concept, how could the French produce something like the Charlemagne before Germany unveiled its first pygmy Pzfs, of half the size and complexity?” The simple answer is that the tech was intentionally leaked by German sources to France. The next question then, is why should they? Why would Germany share plans for a war-changing weapon with a potential enemy?

Knowing that they had very limited resources post WWI, German war industry leaders agreed it would be best to see what happened when a country w/ much stronger assets had exposure to their secret blueprints. Let someone else bear the burden of developing a brand new technology from scratch! Difficult issues like power transmission to the legs, control interfaces, and articulate joint functionality were all resolved by French ingenuity and capital. As evidenced by the well-intentioned but ill-conceived Maginot line, France had a penchant for sinking huge sums into wild military ideas –desperate to ensure peace and security in the wake of the horrific First World War.

While France exhausted crucial time and massive resources developing a machine whose tactical statistics would be rendered obsolete just a few years later by Blitzkrieg tactics, Germany went back to basics and adapted the French breakthroughs to much smaller simpler mechs that could travel farther over land, and even be transported by larger vehicles with relative ease. What later came to be regarded as the Pygmy Pzfs, in the shadow of their much larger offspring. From the start, Germany’s greatest asset in this furtive arms race was its intellectual foresight for the new machine’s proper tactical usage and ultimate potential. In the beginning of Pzf development, Germany was less concerned with creating the perfect weapon from the outset, and more focused on the proper large-scale uses of such a weapon. Strategic application was the thing. Perfecting individual models would come later, after German industry had some time to rebuild. Training and advanced logistics of unit movement could be honed while their machines could yet not. Hence German Pzfs started small, while their creators dreamed big, and crews trained hard… under theoretical military doctrine hardly newer to the world than their curious bipedal mounts.

Though it was a revelation of new technology back in the 1930s, even then, the Charlemagne wasn’t without sizeable flaws -the worst of these being not just low tactical mobility, but also inferior strategic mobility. Not only was the vehicle ponderously slow, but it also suffered from very limited range. Short range means the frequent need to refuel, hobbling operational ability. Like its ally Britain, France’s early approach to armor design was mired in World War I style thinking, what more progressive tacticians would refer to as “trench mind”. Charlemagne was never designed for deep penetrating maneuvers, it was instead conceived more for defense rather than offense.

Although most of the Charlemagne's early tech solutions were abandoned in favor of more efficient and economical innovations, it's basic design DNA can still be detected in all successive mechs of WWII. Though never produced in sufficient numbers (or properly deployed ‘en masse’) to make a significant impact on France's military performance in the early war years, the Charlemagne is nevertheless the unsung Grandfather to all other WWII mecha.

Out of retirement:

When Hamilton’s squad of "AWOL Allies" [link] find themselves in France at the spearhead of the Allied invasion, elements of the French resistance assist them in liberating a hidden stash of Charlemagnes stored in a secret bunker beneath the Maginot line, unused and still waiting for a frontal attack that never happened. They're old and outdated, but as an unofficial rogue unit, the gang will take whatever they can get. If unassigned to a combat unit, one could always sell such vintage war materiel on the thriving black market, or exchange them for more modern options.

Optimally, with some effort on the part of experienced engineers, the Charlemagne could be upgraded with modern equipment and components (both being engineering for universal fittings) to create a machine that remains respectably capable on the battlefields of 1945, against all but the heaviest monsters. In which case, the rare specimens are certainly no worse if not outright superior to the massively produced Big Joe and Kirov, being still slower than both, but remaining the best armored in its class.

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Texture from:
Cgtextures.com [link]
cgkkies.com [link]

For additional info and schematics: [link]
Related content
Comments: 109

Rob-Cavanna In reply to ??? [2019-03-14 15:53:08 +0000 UTC]

Too kind. I feel like this one hasn't aged well!  

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Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-03-21 06:06:28 +0000 UTC]

I gotta say, I like this series of tank mechs. It's like a combination of Gundam and WWII.

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-03-21 14:07:03 +0000 UTC]

Thanks! Yeah, if it doesn't have some whiff of a Japanese mech aesthetic, I'm not happy. 

But then, I was inspired by an old Konami game called "Ring of Red" -which basically showed me the right way to do anime-style WWII tank mechs. It was an early PS2 era game, but with almost PS1 era graphics. However, the low-poly worked in the design's favor. Because simplicity and minimal surface area is the key to doing them right.   

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Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-03-21 18:11:33 +0000 UTC]

That's cool

Mechs in alternative history is one of my favorite sci-fi scenarios, be it WWI or WWII.
 

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-03-21 18:29:06 +0000 UTC]

Me too! The fact that there isn't more of it out there is why needed to do this stuff. 

You might be also interested in DUST and IRON HARVEST. 

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Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-03-21 19:43:40 +0000 UTC]

That's always a good policy to have.
When there's something you want that's not out there, design it yourself!

*looks up DUST* Hmm, Battlemech/Mechwarrior 1940's. pretty cool.
*looks up Iron Harvest* Whoa...

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-03-21 19:49:03 +0000 UTC]

Yeah DUST is some cool Italian tabletop based WWII mech stuff. One day i need to buy it! There are a few cool comics too. The colorist used to be very active on DA way back when I just started here. Very nice lady. 

Iron Harvest is the brainchild of artist Jakob Roalski. IMO it is the best WWI mech stuff out there. Started as beautiful concept art -but is being developed as a game now? So maybe there is hope for OPDS too.   

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Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-03-21 20:00:37 +0000 UTC]

Design aesthetic wise, Iron Harvest is the cooler looking of the two IMO. 

Have you heard of War of the Worlds: Goliath?  

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-03-22 01:48:10 +0000 UTC]

Well, now I have. how did that fly under my radar? 

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Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-03-22 04:40:38 +0000 UTC]


I haven't watched it yet, but it does look awesome.
A WWI mech scenario on top of being a sequel to the first alien invasion story?

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-03-22 15:36:14 +0000 UTC]

seems that way. A cool idea. Figures that we would reverse engineer alien tech after a failed first invasion attempt.

DUST also had ET influence. Aliens shook hands w/ Nazis and handed them mech tech + power source. Which would have been HUGE for Germany -which always had major fuel issues.  
It's a good McGuffin. 

But I've stuck w/ traditional gas engines. So it is still technically dieselpunk. The advanced tech comes from somewhere else... a long forgotten Da Vinci type clock-toymaker dude.     

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Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-03-23 15:44:30 +0000 UTC]

Nazi Germany are more fun to toy around with, because they had so many secret experiments going on in real life (i.e the flying saucer project).

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-03-26 17:31:54 +0000 UTC]

Agree. They were all about the crazy wunder-weapons. Which is the only thing that makes this whole mech premise seem remotely plausible. 

I mean, the fact that in reality they actually came up w/ so many other unprecedented technologies in the 40s ( Infra red camera, guided rockets / missiles / bombs, jet engines, helicopters, etc...) almost makes mechs seem tame by comparison.   

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Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-03-31 15:41:04 +0000 UTC]

Even as a late-war technology development would be cool, similar to how the ME 262 was designed and then delayed by Hitler's meddling.

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-04-01 17:17:26 +0000 UTC]

I won't rule out integrating jet or rocket tech to mechs as late-war feature. In fact, I kind of like the idea of prolonging the war until 1946, just to give more time for the weapons to develop. In fact, my buddy will soon be posting a cool spread w/ OPDS mechs carrying a variety of crazy missile and rocket systems. But they are not integreted into the mechs themselves yet, ala internal agility boosters or anything. 

In this universe, the mech program gets funded early, because it clicks w/ Hitlers ego to have a bunch of mechs saluting him in a parade. + the guys in charge knew how to kiss his ass. 

And that basically obligated all the other WWII powers to play catch-up. The way arms races do. But the same historical factors and foibles still apply. Germany STILL has resource and fuel issues, but maintains a superstiotious faith in wunder-weapons. Bririths mechs have the same characteristics that their tanks did, same for US, Rus, etc... OPDS Mech Profiling

Tho early war, they are only able to field smaller mechs, as per the panzer I and II, because it takes some time for the industry to get up to speed. 
 

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Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-04-01 21:17:06 +0000 UTC]

True, Hitler would like a machine that could salute him.

Maybe I'm thinking a bit far ahead for a concept like this, but I could visualize the walking battle machine diverging some point later, maybe in the 80's or the 90's, and developing into smaller, exo-suits to be used by infantrymen along side the larger mecha.
Would that be too crazy?

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-04-02 15:06:00 +0000 UTC]

Not too crazy at all. I haven't given it much thought yet, but all the events of an "OPDS" WWII scenario really sets up a cold war that is jam packed w/ sweet mech designs. I mean, it's not like military spending slows down after WWII. And if the nuclear program is not front and center, then shit can really get wild! 

But in fact, we already have some pygmy mechs along those lines that verge on being considered as exo-suits:  Komrad

And the Alberich dwarf here: Pzf I Alberich
those are like the very early war guys when blitzkrieg and mechs just started jiving. Same sort of action that the panzer Is and IIs had. Not astounding vehicles in terms of armament or armor, but most effective because no one was really ready for them. Surprise, speed, and radical new tactical methods rendered then far more effective than they ought to be. 

The other big bonus is that they are small enough that you could actually pack a few onto a truck or even into cargo planes. AND, if the building is strong enough, you could even trot them indoors, like if you were taking over an embassy, or a bank, or military bunker. It's not something you try w/ tanks because there's a risk of falling through floors to the basement -which actually happened to reckless crews.  

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-04-04 21:29:43 +0000 UTC]

All this talk makes me want to try to design a WWII mech now...
I wonder if I could kitbash one...?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doctor-Why-Designs [2018-04-05 17:17:40 +0000 UTC]

By all means, please do!

Kitbashing is always fun. My absolute favorite WWII mech kitbasher is this guy: Multi-leg tank :Type 3 Chi-Nu

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Doctor-Why-Designs In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2018-04-11 05:57:44 +0000 UTC]

Awesomus collosumus!

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LtMoonPie [2015-01-14 18:09:45 +0000 UTC]

Man, the French keep coming up with new and awesome toys with which to run away in.

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to LtMoonPie [2015-01-16 04:22:58 +0000 UTC]

Why run when you can surrender from the pleasant safety of a big ass mech? 

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Acidpond [2013-08-10 05:32:40 +0000 UTC]

so does it have a drop guns and surrender button jk really nice art

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to Acidpond [2013-08-13 14:09:12 +0000 UTC]

Note to self: French mechs are supermagnets for surrendering jokes... 


I'd better get used to it. Thanks for the compliment though.  

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Aerasett [2012-08-24 11:01:48 +0000 UTC]

Concerning persons denigrating armored French, I can remember just a small detail: B1-bis, 75H & 47AT, 1935 - M3 Lee, 75H & 37AT, 1941, and very American has been conceived to sherman from French plan.

The Charlemagne is present you with his arms standarts, but he could receive a certain number of different guns and probably more suited to the following the war (North Africa, Middle East & Indochina for FFL and do not forget more than the German one had much use Beute)

Vehicle

25 SA35
37 SA38
47 SA35
75 ABS39 (H)
APX 75 (H)
90 AA (FCM F1
90 SA Mle 45

Machine gun

Reibel 7.5
Hotchkiss Mle30 02.13

AT
47 Miss 37-39
75 SA Mle 39

AA
20 HS 404
25 Mle 38 - 39 - 40
37 Mle 30 Marine
75 Mle 32 - 39 Mle
90 Mle 26-30 (equal the 88 Flak 18)
90 Miss CA 39

Different cannon and howitzer 105
and finally, it is the Belgian tanks were equipped Caon pointing backwards.

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spyderrock48 [2012-05-25 19:54:45 +0000 UTC]

It's french, so obviously it has no real use in combat, but it looks cool! haha

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ballisticCow [2012-05-13 00:36:16 +0000 UTC]

Love this. The retro look is really menacing, especially with the high contrast, almost blood red background. Very cool!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Rob-Cavanna In reply to ballisticCow [2012-05-14 13:59:38 +0000 UTC]

Thank you very much, Millie!

In my research I found a nicely designed website w/ a cool Maginot Line silhouette and thought, 'yep, that's how I'm gonna bullshit the background!'
Came close to doing a more neutral sky color, but ultimately opted for the punchy red.

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ballisticCow In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2012-06-14 11:10:49 +0000 UTC]

LoL! I am glad you went with the punchy red, looks wicked.

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tylero79 [2012-03-10 02:03:39 +0000 UTC]

So, it runs away from battle?

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Wastelander7 [2012-03-09 19:35:47 +0000 UTC]

VERY cool work as always guys! And I can see why the design would be able to stand up on the battlefield. Multiple sloped armor surfaces, extra shields on the hip rotors (a GREAT ideal unless you want to be face down in the mud. I think it would be most vulnerable from the side, since you could get an oblique hit there fairly easily. (no sloped armor) From the front, the hip joint and groin area would be the most vulnerable, but, on a moving target in hedgrows and woods, those areas would be bears to actually get a direct hit on. Especially at long range. On the other hand, these boys would have a hard time in open terrain with the flat surfaces in the front. I also like the top loading cannon. Very practical for a machine of this type.

And I LOVE the feet! These things would have great traction on just about any terrain except quick sand or bogs. All in all, a very strong design. With more sloped armor and a heavier main gun it would probably be a match for almost anything of it's era.

Awesomeness!

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to Wastelander7 [2012-03-09 19:56:49 +0000 UTC]

It's very much a mech-ified version of the Char B-1 Bis. The upper hull (chest) shares all the same angles and construction style as the front of a B-1. And similarly, the sides are just flat as a wall. My earlier sketches had more sloping angles, but I pulled it back to be more in keeping w/ primitive tank design.
The chunky waist and neck rings are like the one under a B-1's turret.

straight up passing the sloped component ideas to a Russian mech instead.

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Wastelander7 In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2012-03-10 04:05:24 +0000 UTC]

Da comrade, pass dem along LOL

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MercenaryGraphics [2012-03-06 23:36:28 +0000 UTC]

A nice take on a Char B1!

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to MercenaryGraphics [2012-03-07 06:17:04 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!

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MrRobotov [2012-03-06 14:35:51 +0000 UTC]

Looks pretty awesome.

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Doomsday-Device [2012-03-06 06:36:48 +0000 UTC]

Yup. It's goofy-lookin' enough to pass as a French robot.

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to Doomsday-Device [2012-03-06 14:28:15 +0000 UTC]

That was my hope...

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flaketom [2012-03-03 13:14:21 +0000 UTC]

Yay, It's done! Really have to say it came out great!

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to flaketom [2012-03-04 23:50:41 +0000 UTC]

Man... Concept world group ALWAYS rejects my shit!

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flaketom In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2012-03-05 08:23:03 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I also start to get annoyed by some groups, really really don't get their policy, how they work. Frustrating. I mean the stuff is fantastic, idea and technic wise! Start to hate some groups, even when knowing I shouldn't put too much thoughts into it, but I can't help myself! Start your own weird war group, being your own boss!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Rob-Cavanna In reply to flaketom [2012-03-05 17:03:58 +0000 UTC]

Just weird. They reject everything I submit. What I'm submitting isn't inconsistent w/ stuff in their gallery either. Feels personal somehow.
I know it shouldn't bother me, just gets on my nerves. Most other group people are very cool. I should just enjoy that.

I've thought of starting a Wierd War II group, but I definitely do not have time to administrate. AND don't have patience to deal w/ filtering pro-Nazi jerks.
Between Alternate History, and Dieselpunk machine, seems like that angle is fairly well covered already.

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flaketom In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2012-03-06 12:03:14 +0000 UTC]

So know what you mean! I am bothered and then I am even more bothered by being bothered. Enjoy the show and don't care about it, but sometimes I just can't help myself...aaaarg...again.
Administering a group is sure work, though a really sweet weird war group isn't really around, though the steampunk and dieselpunk groups are nice but they got soomuch distratction (at least for me...)

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to flaketom [2012-03-07 18:56:14 +0000 UTC]

Exactly, for me too. More bothered by being bothered. It's silly and you know it, but can't help it.

But in fact one of the admins from Concept world wrote me back and gave a detailed explanation why he did not pick this one. Some major faults were apparently that it is A) not representative of my best work, and B) Camoflage pattern is too distracting from a design POV, which I can understand. From our perspective, we know that the image is doing exactly what it needs to do for OPDS, but they are judging on an entirely different aesthetic basis. Simply put, they have very rigorous standards very different from ours. But I'm very glad that one of the judges got back to me w/ a thorough answer about the rejection. He said to keep submitting. So, I'm glad for the merciful response and am now officially over it. Oodles more groups out there. And always nice to feel challenged to do better and grow.

Wanted to post a journal ages ago about "let's make a Weird War II group!" But the inevitable Nazi fallout... i don't have the stomach.
My moral compass tells me to reject any remotely pro-nazi submission or participation, but how would one accomplish that as a group admin? Research EVERY contributor and their affiliates? Read all their comments?
Too much headache, not enough simple fun. WWII can be a dark and sensitive subject as is. Very hard to strike the right balance. The easiest option would be to let the doors wide open, and I'm not into that either.
Don't want to contribute to anything twisted.

On the other hand, building a community of like-minded artists would be great. And as I've learned, all types of watchers and non-pro artists can have LOTS of great ideas to contribute. More brains the better. I'll never know everything there is to know about WWII and armored warfare, no matter how much I obsess. Unless I go live at the Bovington museum. Hmm....

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

flaketom In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2012-03-10 14:35:10 +0000 UTC]

oooh shit, just deleted everything I wrote...meh, now i don't want no more...Till later

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Rob-Cavanna In reply to flaketom [2012-03-10 19:06:16 +0000 UTC]

man, I hate it when that happens! no worries.

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flaketom In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2012-03-12 12:45:57 +0000 UTC]

jaaa.

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to flaketom [2012-03-03 13:17:39 +0000 UTC]


Yes, finally! More or less the way I hoped it would look.
Tried a lighter less colorful background, but there wasn't enough contrast.
After a couple more mecha, hope I can come back to do the MK.I asymmetrical jouster version.

Thanks for all your input on this one, Thomas. Helped me a great deal!

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flaketom In reply to Rob-Cavanna [2012-03-05 08:39:18 +0000 UTC]

Yeah,at last done! Was checking my inbox the last week too frequently cause all was itching to see the final result. Looks great! Dig the background, has the dark atmosphere of something big coming along. I'd probably put some concertina wire and concrete obstacles in the front, too give it a more defensive feeling, but getting things done is the way to go I believe! Mk I should defintely come along some time!
Just came to my mind, when seeing the Maginot line in the background: Although I know it doesn't really make sense, just have to get rid off it. A pop up turret sytle head, so the optics can be under armor, when ...hmmm... whenever. They had some pop machine gun turrets on the maginot line, that's why I came to it. [link] and [link] So now it's out and done.

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Rob-Cavanna In reply to flaketom [2012-03-05 17:15:16 +0000 UTC]

Extra wire defenses + concrete obstacles are an excellent idea! Not so hard to do either. At this point, itching to get more mechs done, but may come back and implement your ideas later. Or could use them on something else.

Funny you should mention the pop-up turret head. I tried something just like that on my Longshanks sketches, but wasn't quite happy. British army helmet sort of lends itself to that defensive turret shape. I also thought of the head retracting into the body. Difficult not to make it look silly though: [link]

Also just grabbed a bunch of Medieval helm reference from internet. Some very cool stuff. Not all right for OPDS, but helps get the imagination flowing.
maybe I'll send you some...

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