Comments: 10
TLhikan [2014-12-05 04:09:53 +0000 UTC]
Given who Games Workshop bases the Khand off of, Middle-Earth is in for it.
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PersephoneEosopoulou [2014-12-04 23:16:47 +0000 UTC]
Wicked cool, Sauron's gone but Saruman still lives
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Slaytaninc [2014-12-04 22:23:42 +0000 UTC]
I won't even begin to imagine what this changes for our own history, given that Tolkien of course never got around to explaining how their world became ours.
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RoyalPsycho In reply to Laputa-Scorefinger [2014-12-04 22:31:11 +0000 UTC]
I really want to make it, I really do, but I can't find a copy of the map that I can edit.
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Laputa-Scorefinger In reply to RoyalPsycho [2014-12-06 13:49:19 +0000 UTC]
Aww, that's a shame. Do try to remember to make a map if you ever run into one!
Also, not to go full nerd on your ass, but I think you could come up with a somewhat better name for the Bubhoshlug Empire. "Orthanc" means "forked height" in Sindarin, (from "or", above, and "thanc", forked) so a Black Speech name should probably mean something similar. (The translation was given as "Mount Fang" in the Two Towers, which I guess is a bit looser way to look at the etymology.)
Now, there's a notoriously poor Tolkien purist dictionary available for the language of the orcs, but we do know that "lug" means "tower", from the Black Speech word for Barad-dûr, Lugbûrz (literally "dark tower). It might fit the less poetic orc mind to call a tower a tower, rather than a "height" or a "mountain". But other than that, we don't have a lot to help us with a straight translation.
Going beyond Tolkien, we have Rob Eaglestone's Horngoth dialect, which translates "mountain" as "urbh", from the noun "urbhrum" meaning "height". We also have the Swedish LARP version of Black Speech, Svartiska, which has given us the word "baug", for "fork". The Land of Shadow messageboard gave us "taar", meaning "high", as well as "glok" for "tooth".
ANYWAY.
Here are a few ideas for names based on Tolkien's and fandom's Black Speech:
Baugtaar, "high fork".
Urbhglok, "Mount Tooth".
Lugbaug, "forked tower" (Using a noun as an adjective? Bitch, we're orcs, fuck your grammar!)
Of course, those are just suggestions. But I felt I should put my painful nerditude to some use.
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Laputa-Scorefinger In reply to Laputa-Scorefinger [2014-12-06 17:23:35 +0000 UTC]
I did some more research, and apparently David Salo, the guy who more or less makes up all the words they use in the LotR and Hobbit movies when Tolkien isn't enough, has some vocabulary we can steal from. In Isengard Black Speech, "tooth" is "nagû" (in Mordor Black Speech, "nakur"). We also have the verb "arise", "huru-". I guess he is as "canon" as you can get in the movie universe when we don't have Tolkien to lean on.
Based on those two, I think I have an idea for a pretty cool name that preserves the basic meaning of the Sindarin word Orthanc: Hurugnagû or Hurug-Nagû, "the rising tooth". Well, at least I think it sounds badass. (The present participle form of a verb is formed by the suffix "-dug" or "-ug", so "Hurudug Nagû" could also be the correct form. We know that Tolkien translated "pushdug" as "stinking", so it all comes down to if you think the root is "push" or "pushd". While "pushd" does seem like a more unwieldy root, that gives us the suffix -"ug", and Tolkien clearly had a preference for vowel-initial suffixes in the Black Speech. So my theory is that Hurug-Nagû is the correct form.)
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RoyalPsycho In reply to Laputa-Scorefinger [2014-12-06 20:47:19 +0000 UTC]
This in response to both comments.
I will make a map, assuming I can find one of course. There some other possible ideas that I was unable to get in text.
The name Bubhoshlug is a reference to how the Orcs see the tower. Whilst the name Orthanc does mean "Forked Height" the Orcs see it more as a great tower, which the name roughly translates to, since it is the centre of their empire and the home of their master.
However your suggestions do sound interesting regardless and I am impressed by the depth of your research.
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Laputa-Scorefinger In reply to RoyalPsycho [2014-12-06 22:36:38 +0000 UTC]
Well, if you use "búb-hosh" to mean "great", presumably from the first draft of Appendix F, you should be aware that the adjective is always placed after the noun it's connected to in Black Speech, so it should be "Lugbúbhosh", not Bubhoshlug. But it seems that Tolkien later translated "búb-hosh" as "dung-heap", which in my opinion seems like a more sensible translation. (Why would the word for "great" be hyphenated?) So, the word would actually mean "Dung Heap Tower", which I don't think Saruman would approve of!
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RoyalPsycho In reply to Laputa-Scorefinger [2014-12-07 00:16:45 +0000 UTC]
Well Saruman took pride in being Sharky despite not understanding what Sharku mean't.
I'm going to find an appropriate alternative.
Thank you for the help.
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