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Seeker212121 — Pig Butt
Published: 2009-03-23 01:36:41 +0000 UTC; Views: 297; Favourites: 2; Downloads: 3
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SNORT!!! Or would that be snout?????Related content
Comments: 58
If a man was trying to break into my house threatening to kill my family, I would want the police to do something to arrest him.
BUT...if I forced that man by gun point to live in my garage and made him go through a series of checkpoints just to use take a shit, it doesn't seem that unreasonable that he'd want to attack me, now does it?
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If you want to pull parallels, the story would sound more like this:
You came into town and bought land from a man. You've cleaned that land and built a house. You've offered that man to live with you. The man refused and called his family to kill you and take your house. When they didn't succeed, they've tried again and again. Each time you defended yourself and were expected by the city to give that man free food, water, power, gas and what not. In return, that man kept attacking you and your family.
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Whoa hold on, when you say you've offered that man to come and live with you does that mean you're giving him his own bedroom and letting him share the kitchen and bathroom with you? Or do you give him a little corner in your basement with a plastic bucket to piss in? And let's be honest you didn't really "buy" that land now did you?
It's not right for Hamas to shell Israel, but terrorist organizations don't just pop up for no reason. People only fight bullies when they've been backed into a corner.
Even Israel's own soldiers are protesting against their own government for the human-rights abuses.
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Check your facts - the land was bought by Jews (the part that UN gave them). Arabs were more than welcome to stay but some of them choose to attack Israel. 20% of Israel's population today are Arabs so it's not like genocide was performed on them.
Even Israeli soldiers protest, yes, and is the sign that Israel is right. Know many alive Palestinians who spoke against Hamas?
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Terrorists are bad, okay nobody's gonna disagree with that. But the sentiment that seems to be perpetuated here is that the Israeli government is completely innocent in this affair. When my government does something I know to be wrong, I speak out I don't try to brush it under the rug.
You're geting caught up in the war aspect and forget about the innocent people caught in the crossfire. People are treating this like its a football game and you have to pick sides between Israel and Hamas. Well it's not, the Israeli government is trying to play the victim without taking any of the blame for itself and even the Israeli people aren't buying it. I would like to see Hamas disappear as well as all terrorist groups (including abusive governments)
During the holocaust there were Jews and Gentiles who resisted the abuses by the Nazi regime. Some did it through peaceful means while others did it through hate and violence. But logic tells us that there wouldn't be any resistance at all if the Nazis hadn't abused the rights of the Jewish people in the first place.
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It would also be wrong to look at the conflict as of 1948. Arabs living there had a thing against Jews for a long time. Mass murders and plundering was performed on regular basis even in 19th century and it should not be forgotten that Arabs from Palestine were on the side of Nazi Germany in WWII.
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Eye for and eye and the whole world goes blind my friend. I think it is kind of petty that the children of Palestine should be slaughtered as compensation for atrocities committed more than 60 years ago.
Both sides have done terrible things but refusing to take responsibility for them will only breed more violence for future generations to deal with. This cycle will continue until someone does something to stop it or both sides have been destroyed.
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As long as terrorist leaders get rich stealing charity given by Arab countries and EU, there will be no peace. Changes have to come from within but Palestinians showed their will voting for Hamas.
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The irony is that within their blind hatred, Israel and Hamas have more in common with each other than anyone else. Terrorists fighting terrorists. One just has better guns and lighter skin than the other, thus making them the "good guys".
If you lived in Gaza you'd be saying the same thing you are now, but instead replacing Hamas with Israel
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But I'm not living in Gaza or Israel, nor am I Jewish, I'm taking a stand in Croatia, based on long study of the subject. Make a small mental exercise - think of yourself waving Palestinian flag in Tel Aviv shouting things against Israel and think of yourself in Gaza waving Israeli flag and shouting things against Hamas. What would happen in those two cases? In first case, worst that would happen to you to be arrested and let go tomorrow with a fine. In second case you would probably be shot on the spot.
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I think you just unintentionally acknowledged the corruption of the Israeli government. Basically what you're saying is that you pick sides based on whose abuse of civil rights is less severe while ignoring the fact that the side you picked is corrupt as well. If you are punished for exercising your freedom of speech, whether you go to jail or get shot, you're rights are still being violated.
There's no such thing as a lesser of 2 evils, because all evil is equitable. This notion of a good side and a bad side is false. Both Hamas and the Israeli government are responsible for the needless slaughter of innocent people.
You cannot deny this fact without lying to yourself.
I'm not saying you should side with Hamas, I'm saying you shouldn't side with either lest you continue the cycle of ignorance and violence.
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What would happen in your US if people waved CCCP flag during Hoover era in FBI? What would happen if during Iran-Contra affair people waved Iranian flag? Or if after 9-11 cheered openly in the street for terrorists? Patriot act is such a pro speech law...
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Not sure what you mean by "pro speech" but I don't support the unconstitutional actions of the US government anymore than I support the civil rights abuses imposed by Israel.
You mistakenly interpreted my disdain for the actions of the Israeli government as an attempt to make the US look better in comparison. The US government is for the most part pro-Israel which is something I don't agree with.
I don't support the murder of innocent people whether its in my own country or on the other side of the world and I would never try to justify it by saying we're simply "defending ourselves"
Now like I said, you cannot deny the fact that the Israeli government has violated the rights of Palestinians as well as their own citizens.
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Perhaps, but think how violated they would feel if they got blown up in a bus.
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This conversation doesn't really seem to be going anywhere. You're trying to compare which one of the two is worse, while I'm saying their both evil and neither should be supported.
Although I must admit, I find car bombs to be slightly less intimidating than Israeli guided missiles, fighter jets and prison camps. I did not realize that what constitutes as terrorism depends on the sophistication of the weapons being used.
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Targets divide terrorists and law enforcement units. When Hamas fires a rocket into Israel or sends an idiot to blow himself up in a bus, they don't care who they hit. In fact, they hope they'll hit as many civilians as possible. IDF, on the other side, collects data, checks and rechecks targets, informs occupants of the targeted buildings of eminent attack in advance and diverts ordinance if civilians enter area of operation. Check user "iweapons" on youtube, he's got great footage from operation Cast lead. Mosques and university that were hit have multiple secondary explosions from all the rockets stored in them. When one building got hit it lit up whole Gaza strip. Hamas stored fuel there and kept it from their own people.
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Hamas = bad. That was already established days ago. I've seen enough suicide bombers to know that.
The question I want you to answer (that you continue to avoid) is whether or not Israel is innocent in this affair.
Are you or are you not willing to admit that the Israeli government has oppressed Palestinians as well as its own citizens both before and after the current situation?
Please do not respond again until you are willing to answer this question for once and for all.
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Israel is not innocent but Israel tolerates more crap from terrorists than all other nations combined, just so it wouldn't be a target of politicians in UN and it always is.
Every act of "repression", as you call it, came to exist as an answer to Hamas and Fatah actions. Ambulances get stopped because they are used to smuggle weapons and terrorists. Women and children are being checked because they've been used as suicide bombers. Walls were erected because terrorists kept crossing borders there. I don't know how Netanyahu plans to respond to bulldozer attacks that have become stylish lately. presume that many innocent Palestinians will loose their jobs in order to provide security to Israeli citizens but is it Israel's fault? No.
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It is as much Israel's fault as it is anyone elses, if not more so.
Terrorists don't just show up out of no where for no reason. Hamas is the bastard child of the corrupt Israeli government. The result of violence done to the Palestinian people.
If you look at the issue objectively it doesnt make any sense to support Israel or Hamas when both are corrupt. Unless of course you are supporting the "lesser of 2 evils" which makes you a fool nonetheless.
What you've failed to realize is that in your attempt to condemn one terrorist organization, you are supporting another.
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I am supporting an internationally recognized country in it's struggle against terrorism. Terrorist didn't just show up - they were cultivated form couple of centuries, long before Israel was formed. Take 1834 massacre in Safed, for example, or united Arab movement, headed by Grand mufti of Jerusalem and supported by Nazi Germany. This terrorism happening today is not a result of Israeli politics but result of century long plans. In 1948 and in 1967 refugee crisis were deliberately created by Arab leadership so they could be used decades after that.
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lol at "century long plans" Hamas didn't exist before the late 1980s
How come its not considered terrorism when Israel or the US kills innocent people? If you lived in Gaza and your home was blown up by an Israeli rocket wouldn't you consider Israelis to be "terrorists"?
Its all terrorism and by engaging in violence, Israel is every bit as responsible as the people they're fighting. Do you think those mothers weeping over the bloody torn bodies of their children care what color flag belongs to the weapon that killed them?
Let's be honest, all you are really supporting is a name.
If you've ever criticized Sudan for Darfur or the US for Iraq then you are a hypocrite plain and simple.
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But Hamas is just the latest runner in relay race of anti-Jewish terrorism.
I think I've explained before that terrorism is all about targets - if you target specifically civilians (suicide bombings, car bombs, rockets fired without aiming on civilians, axe murders) that's terrorism. If you strike at enemy combatants and kill innocent in the process, either because they were used as live shield or because of faulty info, that's a tragedy, but not terrorism.
US isn't fighting Iraqis in Iraq, they're fighting foreign insurgents, many of which are from Iran.
I support a nation and an idea. In Darfur Sudanese are killing their own, just like Nazis killed their own because these guys didn't agree with them. In Israel you have a funny situation - Israel is giving away electricity, gas, fuel, water and food to people that would love to see them perish. Furthermore, there are elected Arab representatives in Knesset whose goal is destruction of Israel. Where else in the world you have that?
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So let me get it straight. It's wrong to kill innocent people if you target them intentionally, but it's okay to kill them if you're trying to kill someone else?
So by that logic, its okay for me to shoot an assault rifle at a small child if there's a terrorist standing behind him, right? I can bomb an entire city as long as I kill at least one bad guy, correct?
Thank you for putting that into perspective for me. I'm sure if you explain that to a grieving family they'll understand completely why you support the people who drop bombs on their houses.
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Well, if the terrorist behind the child continues to attack and kill civilians you swore to protect and shows no intention to stop, yes. If you show them that they can survive if they hide behind children, they will do it again and again. Those children are responsibility of their parents, same parents who elected terrorists as their government and agreed to have their children used as live shield. Israeli children run to shelters, Palestinian children are the shelter. It comes down to a choice between one life versus thousands.
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So you're saying that you don't care how many innocent people get hurt along the way just as long as you kill the enemy?
How exactly is that any different than the Hamas ideology?
And actually answer the question this time, don't try to misconstrue more facts about "Hamas did this while Israel did that" Really ask yourself, how is this any different?
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It's different because Israeli soldiers are trying to protect their own people and Hamas couldn't care less about their own people. IDF does not hide behind Israelis, like cowardly terrorists. Furthermore, Hamas enjoys killing civilians and does everything to kill as many as possible, while IDF does it's best to avoid civilian casualties.
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Keyword being soldiers, not the politicians sending them out to murder people.
In their own misguided minds, the axe wielding Palestinian militants are protecting their own people too. The people giving them their orders are the ones who want to see civilians killed.
The Hamas leaders don't give a shit about civilians (israeli or palestinian) any more than the Israeli leaders do.
So like I said, as far as leadership goes, how is Israel any different from Hamas?
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Let those axe wielding Palestinians who think that they are protecting their own people put on a uniform and face Israeli army on a battlefield. Problems would be solved in 24 hours.
Israeli leaders face public trial on every elections. That's why they do have to give a damn. Hamas enforces their rule by violence upon their own people. If you like, I can post several clips that show just that.
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Let me put it to you this way, if Hamas had its own sovereign state as well as financial, political and military resources equal to those of Israel; logic tells us that the 2 nations would be fighting each other exactly the same way with the same military technology.
So essentially the 2 would be identical, however based on your blind support of Israel and your refusal to acknowledge the abuses they have committed which led to the creation of Hamas, I am willing to guess that you would still support them. Now as you've said, you aren't Jewish and you don't live anywhere near Gaza, therefore the only reason I can think of that you would support them, would be that you as a European (most likely white) harbor a bias against the darker skinned Palestinians or that you simply have a bias against muslims. Or even more likely, it's both.
If you took race, religion and politics out of the equation all this conflict is, is people tricking people into murdering other people for their own selfish gain. This is the situation on both sides, everything else is just a smoke screen.
It's this kind of ignorance that allows things like racism, genocide and oppression to infest this planet. If there's anyone who should be forcibly relocated into prison camps, it is anyone who would willingly shoot a small child if there was an enemy standing behind it. I wish I could say that this conversation has been pleasant, but it certainly has opened my eyes to how widespread this ignorance truly is. I sure hope not everyone in Croatia is shares the same bigoted close-minded mentality you have shown.
Goodbye, have a nice life
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But there never will be a Hamas sovereign country because Hamas doesn't want to form a country. They earn much more money from chaos than from forming a sovereign country.
It wasn't some Israeli abuse that created Hamas, it's a plan. There was PLO. When PLO became moderate, Fatah rose. Today, Fatah is considered moderate and we have extreme Hamas. When Hamas becomes moderate, some other group will carry the torch. Worst thing is that they're all in on the organization, but world refuses to see that.
If European are biased against someone, it's the Jews. Is me being Caucasian a problem for you? Who's being racist now? For your information, there exist much darker skin Jews than Arabs. Your second suggestion is also wrong, since I am against extreme religions in general. Personally, I am an atheist. Furthermore, I have Muslim friends who do agree with me. Fancy that! I've spent a lot of time looking into facts of this conflict and then I've made my decision.
If you take religion out of the equation, there would be no conflict because there would be no islamic extremists involved, promising idiots 72 virgins in heaven if they blow themselves up.
Eye opening on ignorance worked both ways. Most of the Croats are pro-Nazi, much more to your liking.
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That whole last statement went right over your head, lol
I'm agnostic btw
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Why did it go over my head? Most of Croats are pro-Nazi and therefore anti-Jewish. Clearly, I'm a minority.
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If I was pro-nazi that would make me a hypocrite (kinda like you). If you were saying the same thing you are now about Hamas instead of Israel, I would still be arguing against you. There's no point in exchanging one terrorist organization for another.
The most annoying thing about arguing with you Israeli supporters is that it seems like you can't be opposed to the Israeli government without being labeled a "Hamas sympathizer" or an "anti-semite". Which is bullshit really, because not all Israelis are Jews. And even if they were, the Jewish people should be the first to recognize oppression when they see it.
And on that note, I'm done with this argument. I feel like I'm talking in circles and it's obvious that you are completely unwilling to look at this issue from any point of view other than your own. I'd have better luck arguing against my wall.
Goodnight
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I never called someone who's anti-Israeli an anti-Semite, because Arabs are also Semites.
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Too true, but I tried to get several insults in all at once.
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? It's anti - Hamas. Are you anti-Hamas?
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<3
I love your ideas!
and I'm glad you see the reality as it is!
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The reality of the Israel/Palestinian conflict is heartbreaking. But sixty years of terrorism later and the Palestinians are no closer to having what they say they want than they where before. Until they realize that they are only pawns for Hamas and stand against these monsters it will always be this way.
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you got it sister!!!!!!!!!
finally, someone know what's happens here!
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Your welcome for the watch. My husband is Israeli and I feel I can do my part to support Israel by telling people here the truth. In the US we don't get much unbiased news about what's happening in there. It's hard for most (white)Americans to understand racism like Jews endure since it is not a part of everyday life here. I would like to keep talking to you and hear your views on what is happening there.
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I wish Israel will put a littel more effort on what's happening here..
people aginst us because all they can see in the television is us killing the Palestinians ( Israel doesn't believe in showing to everyone dead bodys..we have respect for the dead body..)
^^
thanx very much for the understanding, It's really important to me, to us
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It is hard to stand by and watch the lies told about Israel. It drives me nuts and I don't even have to live there. (not that we wouldn't move there in a second if we could). You will be able to vote in a few years, elect those people that aren't afraid to speak the truth - loudly and repeatedly - . Europe is a big problem for Israel with it's long history of anti-semitism and support for Arabs. But I feel that support will come back to bite them in the ass when the Arabs take over the governments (and they will) even now laws are being enacted that make it illegal to speak against Islam.
Americans do support Israel to a much greater degree because of the number of fundamentalist Christians here. Not everybody chooses to be led like sheep and believe the lies.
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USA always defending on us and I'm so grateful for that ^-^
I hope we never be in a situation when terrorist will take over the governments... IT WILL BE CHAOS!
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America is mostly Christian and won't accept a government that is not Christian too. We'd kick terrorist butt if they try anything here. And I highly doubt the US would ever abandon Israel because of the Christians. The fundamentalist Christians believe that for the second coming of Christ >ALL< Jews have to live in Israel before the Temple can be rebuilt and the discovery of the Ark and other Temple treasures are recovered so that sacrifices can continue. They have reasons for supporting Israel but that doesn't mean it's not useful that they do.
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can I ask you a question?
why so many people in USA hate George W. Bush?
just because I'm curious...
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That's a hard question. There are a >lot< of reasons that go into that. Some of them I guess would be, he comes off as a fool to the world. He represents Americans in the international community and he is an idiot. Other countries think all Americans are this way also. We are not. He came across as not caring what other countries think, he had an agenda and if anyone didn't like it they could go to hell for all he cared. Also the way he handled the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. It could of been handled faster, cheaper and with less loss of life if war wasn't so profitable to him and his rich buddies.
He allowed the price of gas to reach almost $5.00 a gallon here ( I know Israelis pay more) while oil companies made record profits during this time. (Bush's family is in oil, guess who this benefited). He got us involved in 2 wars that have cost thousands of soldiers lives and suffering to the military families in general. Military families have a difficult time paying bills when one member is gone and their income is cut in half. The world economy is now in a mess because of Bush banking and mortgage policies he signed into law that allowed people to buy homes that they couldn't afford, like a near homeless woman being approved for a $350,000 loan! Many reasons to not like Bush. Many of the reasons are small but when you put them all together it makes a big reason to not like this man.
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This is disaster.
I thought the Americans dislike Bush becaus immorality in the government, but this is much wors!
The gas in Israel supposed to be expensive for the Israeli ( because our money is different from the US dollar), but in US dollars the gas in Israel is cost 2 dollars... so its not so expensive comparing to your price of gas.
The military families who have a difficult time paying bills is the most sed case ( in my opinion) because their sons were sacrificed their life in order to protect their country and this is how the country (Bush) pay back? this is so absurd!
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