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XFiVESTRiDESX In reply to doberman-momma89 [2010-06-15 22:59:46 +0000 UTC]

i wasnt trying to start a "miss know it all" argument, just stating what i see, and what is obviously noticable. and trust me, i did my research for 11 years, pole bending and barrel racing in nbha, sbra && wpra. i just never ever liked straight, soild bits like this one, ive seen what can happen if this bit gets in the wrongs hands. do you use this bit on your horse? to me, the horses mouth looks tense and has to much pressure, im not saying its the riders fault, people dont realize their pulling hard sine their in the "zone". the horses headstall looks tight as hell, so its not possible to see whether or not the horses playing with it or not. im not trying to be rude, im blunt, and tell it how i see. i perfer hackamores to be honest, and the only bit i ever use is a D ring snaffle. but neither of us can really be sure, because we wernt there, but sorry if i offended you or some shit.. but whateves

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peachesrox In reply to XFiVESTRiDESX [2010-10-12 00:24:27 +0000 UTC]

Sorry for butting in, but I'm trying to keep tha peace

I agree5stride, those bits are pretty nasty, but any bit can hurt a horse if used incorrectly. I prefer using hackamores also, but I do not think that using this kind of bit is cruel, but mainly 'inconvenient' to the horse at this time. Also, I do not think that the rider is making his head tight, do to the fact that the reins aren't straight. So I think that you are both right in your own way
-peachesrox

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doberman-momma89 In reply to XFiVESTRiDESX [2010-06-17 12:01:53 +0000 UTC]

haha
you didn't offend me
i was just saying what is right

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peachesrox In reply to doberman-momma89 [2010-10-12 00:26:41 +0000 UTC]

Sorry for butting in, but I'm trying to keep tha peace

I feel that both you (dobermanmomma) and 5stride are both correct in your own ways. (you can read my post above if you want) So I think that saying 'I was just saying what is right' is fairly rude.
-peachesrox

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doberman-momma89 In reply to peachesrox [2010-10-12 02:12:47 +0000 UTC]

the argument has been settled 4-5 months ago
bye

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doberman-momma89 In reply to XFiVESTRiDESX [2010-06-14 19:43:14 +0000 UTC]

The bit doesn't give the horse pain. If it did, then horses wouldn't allow their riders to put them into their mouths.
Do your research before assuming the horse is in pain. That bit is in no way pulling inhumanly on that horse's mouth. If it was, the bridle would be bunched up. Also, there are several horses who "play" with their bits and who gap their mouths open when making a tight turn.
My barrel horse chews on his bits. And he gaps his mouth several times when turning barrels.

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Renalon In reply to doberman-momma89 [2011-02-25 05:53:34 +0000 UTC]

Howdy, I'd love to borrow this pic for my blog as an example of barrel racer outfits... It will be up tomorrow 25/02/11 at www.spineonline.ca/iiibarsv

I'm going to clarify just for this picture...

The prettttttty little black horse in this pic is definitely opening their mouth to evade the bit because the port, even though it's a low port, is probably poking him in the palate due to the lack of curb strap and the manner in which the rider is using their hands. I would call that rather uncomfortable and it is very different from normally chomping.

Not my first choice as a barrel bit when the rider needs to use their hands this way... and the bridle isn't getting loose because of the poll action from the bit's longer purchase. No, it's not going to rip his face off, but it could very leave a couple bruises on the bars or cheek if the kid used enough pressure or jerked their hand sideways.

This bit (and other fixed-shank or solid-port bits) doesn't function well as a direct-rein turner because if you pull on the one side, the top of the bit where the bridle attaches pokes the horse in the cheek in the opposite direction. The horse gets confused and will usually try to resist the pressure by 1) gaping their mouth, 2) throwing their head up or 3) pulling away from the rider's hand. Not only that, but the way this bit is designed, pulling or lifting the shank on one side will cause a downward pressure on the bar (gum) of the opposite side... and to a horse, who wants to move away from pressure, that only worsens the problem of confused signals. Shank bits work just fine if your horse is trained off leg and seat, neckreins, and you barely have to touch them. Not so great if you need to use your hands more, especially to turn.

As a trainer (of barrel horses, among other types), I can definitely say that horse is going "ow, my mouth" in this picture. Though you're right, the kid isn't really pulling all that hard and I actually like their body position and use of the outside rein--- it's really the bit that's causing the problem due to the pressure cues, and confusion isn't cruelty and that doesn't make this bit "totally evil". It's a good bit and I have a couple of this exact one, but this just isn't the right horse or place for it.

This horse would do much better in something more flexible... and if he doesn't like curb, then probably the Hodges Futurity bit (upside down bit) or the Little S Hackamore, which takes the pressure off the mouth completely. The curb action on both these bits can be backed way down so that it either barely touched them, or only acts when you have pressure on both reins simultaneously.

Generally, I like to see a horse running with a natural position and no gaping mouth... which is why I run in the Little S Hackamore. But horses will gape a little bit if you use too much hand on any bit, or if they're trying to evade. Generally when the mouth is open this wide with this type of (incorrectly adjusted) bit, you can assume there's a problem.

Also, lots of horses still bridle even when the rider is one nasty rough-handed SOB all the time. Horses are incredibly tolerant and forgiving. I'm always amazed when horses with torn-up mouths bridle just fine for their nasty riders. I wish they would refuse, but then they'd probably just get wailed on even more.

~IIIBarsV a la Horsegroomingsupplies Forums. Come chat if anyone's got any Q's on bit function! (or anything else, I love chatting about horses!)

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