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SRegan β€” You Must Obey Because You Must - an AH map

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Published: 2014-11-23 09:16:23 +0000 UTC; Views: 57683; Favourites: 355; Downloads: 379
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Description "If Britain wins, we lose; if Germany wins, we are lost" - Benito Mussolini

Although this uses the 'a bayonet made of milk' quote, this is not actually A Bayonet Made of Milk , an idea I still want to develop some day. Instead, it's a little scenario based on a game of Darkest Hour; the Republicans win the Spanish Civil War, leaving Mussolini fuming but still occupying the Balearics, which he promptly annexes for his trouble.

In 1938, despite the mounting cost of turning Ethiopia into a workable colonial possession, Il Duce decides to go for broke and make an alliance with Bulgaria to attack and dismember Yugoslavia. France is focused on Hitler's re-armament of Germany and does not support the Little Entente once Hungary makes it clear it has no interest getting in on the action. This campaign concludes with a lightning strike into Greece using motorised infantry (motorbikes). France and Britain plan to declare war but are pre-empted by conflict between Germany and Poland as OTL.

Mussolini gives reassurances to Britain and France that he does not intend to join the war. After the fall of France, however, he sends troops to occupy Nice, Savoy, Corsica, Tunisia and Djibouti. The Free French aren't happy about this but Britain is happy that Germany's puppet is being shown up as incapable of keeping control of its territory.

In 1944, with Germany halting American and Soviet forces and turning initial advances into a WW1-esque meatgrinder, Mussolini offers to open another front against Hitler; his price is the territories he is already occupying as well as sphere of influence in Austria. Worried the Soviets will overrun all of Germany, the western Allies accept.

In the aftermath of WW2, Mussolini believes his alliance with America essentially gives him carte blanche in southern and central Europe, and promptly manufactures border incidents to justify war with Switzerland. However, he underestimates both international sympathy for the Swiss and their ability to resist, and the Alpine War lasts two more years and inflicts more Italian casualties than their short-lived participation in WW2. He is ultimately able to wring out a narrow victory that sees Italian forces retreat from all but Ticino. Italy, its puppets, and sole ally Bulgaria will be shunned by both democratic and socialist blocs throughout the Cold War.
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Comments: 48

Brotherofsteel5 [2020-05-13 09:36:11 +0000 UTC]

I imagined something else, for an alternative history. I used it as alternative rule for a wargame.


After the invasion of Yugoslavia, Germany create.... A Balkan community of states. They create in fact a serie of puppet-states: Croatia, but also Bosnia, Slovenia, Serbia-Montenegro, and even Macedonia.

Only Kossovo is included to italian Albania.


(I included it in my home made rules)

Italians and others axis countries were of course not happy, and asked some economical compensations.

But at least there was less partisans in this area, maybe a little more volunters (This states are allowed to have their own armies, even if this armies are really modests.)

And Germany and his allied must let just fews units in this area, more as military security and advisors, than garnison.

And we could even imagine the german, ejecting Pavelic from Croatia (because he's incompetent and source of troubles)


After the WW2, and maybe even during WW2, it appear somes of this states are influenced by Ex-partners of the Axis power who has their owns agendas.

Slovenia and Croatia are pro-germans, Bosnia is influenced by Italia, Serbia by Romania, and Even the little Bulgaria influe the modest Macedonian state.

It occured sometimes troubles, with military tensions, and border incidents (The short Serbian-macedonian war for exemple)


It's maybe seem absurd, but there was more absurds things during WW2. the short war betwen Slovaquia and Hungary, the perpetual grudges betwen Romania and Hungary, who were yet in the same side and i'm sure many others stranges things.

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MarshalBraginsky [2018-08-04 01:49:43 +0000 UTC]

I'm thinking about a scenario in mind that involves this map, and here it is:

With fascist Italy possibly surviving here, does this mean that the Cold War would be split on a North-South angle instead of an East-West angle? I'm not sure how many Soviet puppet states would exist, given that the fate of Germany here isn't clear. Would Scandinavia be a suitable substitute for Stalin to expand his influence in place of the Balkans? Not sure if Romania would have either ended up in the Italian camp or the Soviet camp, given its proximity to Italian ally Bulgaria and the USSR itself.

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SRegan In reply to MarshalBraginsky [2018-08-18 21:33:50 +0000 UTC]

Hmm. As this was based on a playthrough of HOI2 I didn't go too far into the Cold War (in the 'real' game an incredibly messy and unrealistic WW3 ensued, which resulted in the Soviet Union being divided between the US, UK and Canada in horrible diagonal stripes).


If Romania was allied with Germany/a German puppet, expect it to be occupied by the Soviets for its troubles. My sense was that an extant fascist bloc (albeit a mini-one; with Franco having lost the civil war it's basically just Italy, Bulgaria, and Italy's protectorates and colonies) would be distrusted by both sides; the Fourth French Republic considers Italy to be occupying its land as the Free French never signed over the lands Vichy ceded and the Alpine War alienated the US and UK, who supported Swiss freedom fighters. Expect the Soviets to support insurgents in Italian Africa, and also Austria and the Balkans. Italy will have too many problems pacifying its overextended colonial territories to try to spread fascism abroad.

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MarshalBraginsky In reply to SRegan [2018-08-19 17:28:51 +0000 UTC]

Ok. I am also wondering as to how Franco would have lost the Spanish Civil War, even with the aid that he was given in this scenario. Also, what is Turkey's fate here? It might have made sense if they were aligned with Italy as well, given their fear of the USSR and the lingering distrust of the West from the Turkish War of Independence.Β 

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twistedpatriot [2018-04-25 01:54:10 +0000 UTC]

What's happening in Ethiopia? Doesn't seem like the Italians are doing a very good job at pacifying the Patriots' resistance.

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SRegan In reply to twistedpatriot [2018-04-25 17:47:22 +0000 UTC]

The crosshatching doesn't imply colonial revolts - it indicates new territories acquired between 1933 and 1945. Given the speed with which ITTL Italy moved onto other ventures, however, in reality it would be underdeveloped and being held onto with a shoestring colonial brigade.

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twistedpatriot In reply to SRegan [2018-04-25 20:19:00 +0000 UTC]

What about the Ethiopian Patriots?

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occidentale In reply to twistedpatriot [2022-09-19 16:18:29 +0000 UTC]

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cyanidemapping [2018-04-21 18:35:38 +0000 UTC]

fuckin delicious

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bloodyfinalizer [2018-04-08 00:20:44 +0000 UTC]

I personally find this world in a theory absoulte disgusting, but a well done map anyway!

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SRegan In reply to bloodyfinalizer [2018-04-13 21:33:09 +0000 UTC]

Thanks! I should note again that this is an attempt to turn a game of Hearts of Iron II: Darkest Hour into a plausible 'what if' scenario.

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kazumikikuchi [2018-03-04 09:51:56 +0000 UTC]

Interesting..so cool I like this.

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SRegan In reply to kazumikikuchi [2018-03-04 15:23:11 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!

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asari13 [2017-11-18 22:59:33 +0000 UTC]

interessante

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FrankCesco [2017-04-24 18:18:06 +0000 UTC]

Good work, but Italy should have gained also Valais and Grigione from the Operation Tannenbaum (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operatio… )

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SRegan In reply to FrankCesco [2017-04-26 20:42:55 +0000 UTC]

Thanks - worth noting though this isn't an Axis victory Italy as such but one that plays both sides, eventually joining the Allies in the late war in return for sphere of influence in Austria and cession of the French territories it was already occupying. Mussolini no doubt wanted more of Switzerland, including one or more rump puppet states, but Ticino was the only area he could hang onto in the face of intense guerilla fighting (likely not-so-covertly aided by Britain and France) post-WW2.

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FrankCesco In reply to SRegan [2017-04-28 13:20:47 +0000 UTC]

Yes, you are right

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CRexFish [2017-01-29 02:42:50 +0000 UTC]

some interest towards the 3rd wheel of the Axis trike. Finally some love for Italy, even if its the wrong one...

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Adalack [2016-12-28 04:19:58 +0000 UTC]

This is a most promising idea as far as how Fascist Italy would've established its empire- so kudos on that!
Sincerely;
Adalack.

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DomBul [2016-08-31 16:25:25 +0000 UTC]

Amazing. The only thing now is that you have to improve your Italian xD

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SRegan In reply to DomBul [2016-09-01 20:01:08 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

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DomBul [2016-08-31 15:52:19 +0000 UTC]

Amazing. Now, the next step is to improve your italian xD

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Marius34 [2016-07-30 19:58:33 +0000 UTC]

Wow, just wow

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waterpoke [2016-07-08 06:33:51 +0000 UTC]

Love it. Though it's hard to understand the Italian on the picture but I can find loop holes.

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SRegan In reply to waterpoke [2016-07-08 17:27:32 +0000 UTC]

Thanks - worth noting I can't speak Italian either, so it's largely Google Translate and probably appallingly wrong. To my recollection, the key was supposed to say:

Conventions:
Β - Borders of a (intranational) subdivision
Β - Borders of a colonial zone (should probably have been province)
Β - Territory Italy controlled before 1933
Β - Territory acquired by Italy between 1933-1945
Β - Nations subordinate to Italy
Β - Bulgaria, ally of Italy since 1938

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Tullamareena [2016-06-24 12:49:47 +0000 UTC]

Nice, I like the layout you made. Italy was essentially the southern Nazi Germany xD, but much weaker. It would be an defying feat to pull off their territorial ambitions.

Wouldn't Osijek be called Esecchio? Since that's its historical Italian name. And Bjelovar would've probably been directly translated to Castello Bianco.

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SRegan In reply to Tullamareena [2016-06-25 15:33:48 +0000 UTC]

Thanks - good point re the Croatian city names; I originally had these in their original languages, then quickly decided to go through and give them an Italian flavour to suggest Italy was erasing local names and culture.

This map is actually pretty modest compared to some of the crazy aims Mussolini had - Totentanz0 did a good composite of all possible territories Italian fascists thought should be under the control of Rome. In reality, if (somehow) Germany succeeded in its own aims, Italy would likely have been humiliated and turned into a puppet state; possibly even divested of the Quarta Sponda if Hitler was forced to send the Afrikan Korps as OTL. Mussolini did have an opportunity to be part of the Allies (from the Locarno treaties/Stresa Front) but blew a lot of that good will by invading Ethiopia.

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Tullamareena In reply to SRegan [2016-06-26 11:47:06 +0000 UTC]

Yeah , Mussolini was delusional. His ideas weren't even that popular among the people; he was trying to force feed this idea that Italy must be made great again, via a new Roman empire or whatnot.

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1saby [2016-04-27 19:31:03 +0000 UTC]

Nice. So, Croatia and Slovenia were annexed directly or put in personal union?

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SRegan In reply to 1saby [2016-04-28 18:37:31 +0000 UTC]

In the game, they were just annexed directly. For the map I had mind that that they were de jure annexed by the Kingdom of Italy but in practice subject to colonial-style restrictions on movement and treated as imperial subject. Albania is in personal union - Serbia, Greece and later Austria are fascist one-party puppet 'republics'. Bosnia is officially an Italian 'protectorate' but in practice part of the Empire.

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Leopold002 [2016-03-26 22:32:06 +0000 UTC]

Realistic.

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The-Artist-64 [2016-03-26 14:14:33 +0000 UTC]

Very realistic and believable timeline!

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Hardwing [2016-03-26 14:03:02 +0000 UTC]

Great work!

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Cloud-Empire [2016-03-26 13:27:37 +0000 UTC]

In this timeline, Italy did it right

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DaneofScandinavia [2016-03-23 22:35:36 +0000 UTC]

Overpowered Italy is overpowered.

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IronPiedmont1996 [2015-11-18 01:00:54 +0000 UTC]

I live the detail of this. Well done.

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SRegan In reply to IronPiedmont1996 [2015-11-28 11:42:22 +0000 UTC]

Cheers!

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Al3ssio97 [2015-07-08 15:37:34 +0000 UTC]

Too much land for me, i think Monarchy and Fascism can't stay united for ever. The Fascist want a republic (The ISR) And the Monarchist want a Monachy without Fascism. And i think Italy have join NATO, UN and other organizations like in OTL.

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bruiser128 [2015-06-18 18:26:33 +0000 UTC]

I would think that Italy would become a major ally to the USA in this Cold war.

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SRegan In reply to bruiser128 [2015-06-22 16:20:04 +0000 UTC]

Could be - as mentioned it's based on a Darkest Hour game, where I spent pretty much the entire Cold War period absolutely hated by everybody. In real life his anti-Bolshevik sensibilities would make him a useful ally, albeit one the USA would want to keep at arm's-length due to his actions in Ethiopia and eastern Europe. This Mussolini also flouted Anglo-French authority three times (Ethiopia-Yugoslavia-Greece), and made the French smart even more by demanding to annex territory from Vichy as his price for entry into the war (including core Third Republic territory); they'll resist any attempts by the USA to make common cause against the Soviets. It might even drive the French further left post-war.

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bruiser128 In reply to SRegan [2015-06-22 17:38:56 +0000 UTC]

True enough their, but wasn't it similar with Apartheid South Africa?

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SRegan In reply to bruiser128 [2015-06-22 18:05:49 +0000 UTC]

True.

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bruiser128 In reply to SRegan [2015-06-22 20:20:51 +0000 UTC]

Although I can see how all the OTL dictatorships of South
America could label themselves fascist in this time line.

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Macharius88 [2015-05-07 18:21:12 +0000 UTC]

Nice work, Italian should be revised (there are some errors), but it shows very well Italian "wet dreams" about Balkans.

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SRegan In reply to Macharius88 [2015-05-10 18:18:39 +0000 UTC]

Cheers!

The province level suffers from a lack of good period English-language source maps (especially in Croatia and Serbia), so it almost certainly includes plenty of anachronisms and/or improper nomenclature

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Macharius88 In reply to SRegan [2015-05-10 18:53:46 +0000 UTC]

Honestly, I was writing about the legend. It is a beatiful map anyway.

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History-Explorer [2015-03-17 03:24:16 +0000 UTC]

Interesting. As for real history, from what I've read prior to World War II, like shown here Mussolini intended to annex the whole (or at least almost all) of Slovenia into Italy to both block potential German expansionist intentions towards the Balkans that the Fascist regime wanted within Italy's orbit. Also with Italian control over Slovenia, Italy would have a direct connection to Hungary that Mussolini wanted within Italy's sphere of influence.

Indeed Hungary's first fascist Prime Minister Gyula Gombos was more pro-Mussolini than pro-Hitler. Though Gombos was sympathetic to the anti-Semitism of the National Socialist regime, when Hitler was non-committal to support Hungarian irredentist claims to Romania while Italy was more accomodating, Gombos decided to be primarily pro-Italian though he had general pro-German sympathies as well. However he died suddenly in 1936, after that the Hungarian governments were either neutral or pro-German.

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SRegan In reply to History-Explorer [2015-03-20 19:45:21 +0000 UTC]

Thanks - Hungary was on my wishlist in the game as well, but the Soviets beat me to it. I was actually actively trying not to court it in the pre-war era for gamey reasons, as Hungary can very easily drag you into war by DoWing the Soviet Union.

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