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thingmebob β United We Stand
Published: 2012-08-27 22:20:50 +0000 UTC; Views: 1773; Favourites: 33; Downloads: 98
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United We Stand; Divided We Fall!In 2014 a referendum will be held deciding whether Scotland should leave the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This is a matter very close to my heart and want more awareness of this huge issue, hence this poster I created in Gimp (found Union Flag on google).
The SNP (Scottish National Party) and their leader Alex Salmond have decided that Scotland is better off as an independent state than a part of the United Kingdom - I strongly disagree and am dedicated to the Unionist cause.
I am British and proud! What should I call myself if this Union were to break apart? What will my country be called? I am heart broken at the thought of my country being ripped apart by this Alex Salmond and the SNP!
United We Stand; Divided We Fall!
Keep the United Kingdom United!
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Comments: 43
And I am absolutely delighted! The United Kingdom remains United
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Together as allies we stand, divided we fall.
This isn't the case of England exploting Scotland for it's oil.
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Exactly! We truly are Better Together. Β VOTE NO!
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Our past conflicts are irrelevant, lots of love toΒ our fellow UK friends and allies, such as yourself,Β who still care for their neighbours.
Also, best regards from a Scottish No-Voter for your patriotism towards our United Kingdom!
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Thank you very much for the comment. I completely agree and thank you. Glad to see a fellow British patriot.Β Β
VOTE NO!
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Oh don't worry, I made up my mind right from the start that I'd be voting 'no'. 
Didn't they get the memo? TheΒ Wars of Scottish Independence finished centuries ago.
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Exactly!! Politics should not be done that way. Salmond accuses the 'NO' campaign of scaremongering, while completely ignoring the outrageous behaviour of his own 'YES' voters. The hypocrisy of Salmond knows no bounds.
We've been in Union together for three centuries, share Her Majesty as monarch, share a wide ranging culture and history and achieved unprecedented things together - we should be looking at that rather than what Salmond keeps bleeting on about. If you go back far enough, perhaps I should hate the Romans for occupying Southern Britain almost two millennia ago! Come on, move with the times!
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Haha, and now have we not only got the vote, but he's resigning.
I feel a great sense of companionship over the 'yes' voters' mob rule. 
Looks like our union will last for some many years to come.
I found myself unable to sleep most of last night with anxiety. I'm happy now though - Scotland has done itself proud.
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Completely agree. I was up most of the night as well, watching the individual results come in. Absolutely over the moon that they decided to stay - our United Kingdom is stronger for it!
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May I ask from which part of the UK you are from?
Because I have no idea, what the majority of Scots thinks about this issue.Β
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I live in the East of England. This is an issue which spans the entire United Kingdom. The SNP want to exclude everybody else, but it effects us all. An independent Scotland would have huge consequences on the rest of the UK.
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Seconded! 
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And I think we shall remain that way, as the Scots seems to realize the truth: that they can have all the culture, heritage and history that their country offers, and still remain part of the UK.
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Exactly! The United Kingdom is the best of both worlds. The idea that Salmond and the SNP are giving of an oppressed Scotland is ludicrous - Scottish culture is thriving.
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And I hope they remain with us, because I personally love Scotland and its culture, and I want to live in a country where that culture is a part of life.Β
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Exactly! Me too. I think most people across the UK want that. We are greater than the sum of our parts, our culture is one of the most interesting and diverse in the world. We are better together!
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There is nothing united about the united kingdom, all our taxes go to London and in return we get little of what we give. We also are forced into illegal wars, horrid taxes and governments we never voted for.
An independent Scotland would be best for Scotland because it will be ran by Scots for the benefit for Scots and Scotland!!!!Β
Westminster isn't working!!!!
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I understand your frustration, however Scotland in fact benefits a LOT more as being part of the United Kingdom. Scotland actually receives more money (for NHS, infrastructure etc. etc.) than they pay in taxes and would have a dramatically smaller 'budget' if independent. And there is the defence industry to consider - with Rosyth building the Aircraft Carriers producing thousands of jobs across Scotland - company spokespeople have already stated they will almost certainly move operations south of the border if Scotland became independent. The UK Armed Forces is one of best in the world, with the 4th largest budget in the world - An independent Scotland would have anywhere near that. Also, major SCOTTISH companies have made it clear that they are very worried about an independent Scotland's economy - many have stated they will likely relocate south of the border in the event of a 'Yes' vote.Β
As for governments you didn't vote for, I live in 'England' and I didn't vote for this government, as a vast amount of people across the UK didn't - that is the nature of our system. An independent Scotland would have a very similar, if not the same, system.
Are you forgetting the Scottish parliament? Scotland already has 'Scots' making decisions for 'Scots'. This whole referendum is thanks to the Scottish government - if Scotland doesn't have a voice, why did Westminster recognise this referendum? Westminster, granted, controls a lot of high end departments, such as defence, but for the localities it is the same throughout Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - a local government runs everyday things and makes specific decisions that will effect their localities - such as education, town management etc.Β
I truly believe that Scotland will be better off as part of a United Kingdom. The economic and diplomatic facts stack well in favour of a 'No' vote.Β
Thanks for the comment
Keep the United Kingdom United!
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Really? Because that statement isn't quite correct. Β£53 billion in tax is collected by the Westminster and then over Β£7 Billion of that is taken by Westminster 'on our behalf' and we are given around Β£46 Billion. This amount taken on our behalf is used for London events, State funerals for un-popular politicians and illegal wars to name a few. We never wanted any of that, even our MPs voted against it but we still where forced to go.
Shipyards are a business, they get contracts from anyone who can pay. Currently UK Ships are being made in South Korea, so why not Scotland? and If we don't get UK contracts then we'll just try for others. Businesses are businesses, they go where they can make money.Β
Well why would we? We wouldn't be following America into any conflict like we are currently forced to. We don't need a large military or WMD like Trident in Scotland. We only need a small military similar to that of countries in Scandinavia where military spending is currently similar to the current contribution to military spending by scotland, Β£3 Billion. Having a large military isn't something to be proud of, war has been a curse on this world.
Currently the only business which has said it will move is Standard life which have strong connections to the Conservative Party with the boss actually being in charge of Privatization in Westminster for Thatcher. So there just doing a favor for their Westminster chums, and they only said SOME not ALL. 70% of Scottish Businesses said they leave after devolution and did they? 0% left. Scotland's economy is doing well at the moment and if independence, we'll have control of it so we can support it unlike Westminster has.
We'll I live in 'Scotland' and we have a devolved Parliament and the majority voted for SNP which they got. We use an altered voting system, AMS, but it still uses FPTP. We'd most likely remain with this system unless a newly elected government changes it which might happen but might not. We'll why is it like that? Why is it that the majority don't get what they want? Its not fair and its not going to change in Westminster, we can get away from that system with Independence.Β
We have some powers to make some decisions for Scotland but We need more, the only confirmed way we can get more power, all the power is with Independence. Yes it was thanks to the Scottish Parliament and I don't know why they recognized the vote, maybe because we live in a democracy and that involves voting on decisions but hey, I don't know because I'm not David Cameron and maybe he agreed because he just hates us?
I understand the powers held by devolved parliament and central Parliament but I believe that its currently not good enough, Scotland is political different to the RUK especially in the south and we don't have a large enough voice in Westminster to put our points across but with Independence, we can leave all of that and make the decisions that will benefit us and are tailored to Scotland.Β
Well we have made our economics augments, even with our 'un-bias' media outlet the BBC not reporting them, just take a look at business for Scotland . And its not all about the economics, its also about social justice and equality as well with the facts and support stacked well in favor of Yes.
May I ask what political party your support goes to if you do support one? Just so I can get a general idea of your political views.
Thanks for the reply
Westminster isn't working, Say Yes to Scottish Independence Β
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You can call your nation without Scotland The "United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland". It's a bit longer and less grand then "GREAT BRITAIN!" but you can live with it hopefully :3
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Well we are hoping it won't come to that. An end to the Union would be disastrous for all concerned. I am British, a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her Majesty the Queen. Let us hope we remain so!
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Well you're entitled to your own opinion and I to mine. I'm generally for national independence movements so long as there peaceful. It's really not up to either of us, it's up to Scotland.
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We are indeed. I think, however, that supporting independence generally, even peaceful ones, is dangerous. Just because some people want to become independent does not mean that that is the right decision, as I believe in the case of Scotland - the Scottish people will lose more than they gain should they seperate. We shall have to wait and see for the vote in September.Β
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If Scotland does regain independence, we will still continue to work closely and freely trade with each other. It's just that Scotland will be run by her own people and so will her affairs and resources. They (the Scottish parliament) have confirmed they will keep the monarch as the head of state and the pound so we will share that solidarity.
I say this because I am proud to be English with some Celtic ancestry and independence will close an old chapter in our history and give all of us a fresh new start in the world.
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I understand your reasoning but I fundamentally disagree. Since the Union in 1707, and by extension since 1603 with the Union of the Crowns, the British Isles have done great things, things that would not have been possible had our island be divided; united we stand, divided we fall. Would we have ruled the waves without the union? I think not. But even in the 21st Century it is this concept of working together, being a truly 'United' Kingdom that is important for all concerned. I am sure you are aware of Alex Salmond's supposed plans for independence and quite frankly they are mostly lies and over-simplifications. I truly believe that the Scottish people, my fellow countrymen and women (I live in 'England'), really are better of as part of a United Kingdom.
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We don't need an unfair, outdated politcal union to feel close with each other. I still feel family connections in Ireland even though it's independent.
Our countries were formed years before the union, and were independent from each other for much longer aswell. Most Scottish MPs were against the union but were bribed by the English into accepting it, as described by the poem by Robbie Burns, A parcel of rogues.
I used to believe the United Kingdom was force of good for us and the world. But then I discovered the horrifying crimes against humanity that the UK committed throughout history. Invasions, massacres, attempts to wipe out indigenous populations and their cultures to say the least.
Independence is not about one man or his party's ideaologies. It's about a nation and it's people standing on their own two feet as an equal voice in the world and not just some petty region in the north. It's about Scotland making it's own decisions and not Westminster making decisions for them. If Scotland does choose independence, I will still feel the connections and solidarity even though we are different from each other.
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Yes our countries were formed years before the union, but you have to question when that argument will stop; Scotland was a collection of warring clans who despised one another, much like England before the union. The point of political and cultural union is you find common ground that enables two types of people to work together for the better. Therefore along that line of argument you could say that Moray should be an independent country!
I don't agree with you that the reason for most SMPs supporting the Union is they were bribed by the English! The campaign for independence is so flawed and full of lies and deceit that they realise Scotland will be much better off as part of the United Kingdom. They believe in the strengths of the union over the weaknesses of independence.
Yes looking at British history through 21st century eyes I agree we committed terrible atrocities and I am not disregarding that when I say in the context of the time that was the done thing. Every country in Europe is guilty of that in that case, hence no country is worthy to remain in the 21st century. I don't really see the argument however, as Scotland and Scottish people were just as much a part of that as any other person, whether Welsh, English or even Irish.
When you say have an equal voice I think you are mistaken. The SNP's idea of a national voice is all well and good, but consider this. The United Kingdom is a member of the United Nations Security Council being one of only 5 countries that can veto ANY legislation even if outnumbered 4 to 5. That is some say in the world. An independent Scotland would not have that. Also members of the G7, G8 etc. Scotland would not. The UK is the semi-permanent holder of Deputy Supreme Allied Commander of Europe in NATO as well as having potentially the second biggest say in military operations after the United States. Scotland would not. Scotland's voice as part of the United Kingdom can reach and influence far many more people than an independent Scotland. Additionally you forget that Scottish MPs are elected into Westminster.
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Not all the clans hated and fought each other. These feuds are dotted throughout history and were usually lasted for a few years. The clans would band together in desperate times, such as the wars of independence. Feuds amongst monarchs and nobles still continued even after the union was formed, I fail to see how wiping another country off the map would put an end to it. Today, the UK is one of the most unequal countries in the developed world. Whenever the Scottish parliament or the Welsh assembly oppose a law they don't want, Westminster imposes it anyway (eg. the infamous bedroom tax). When Scotland was promised further devolution in 1979, we instead got Thatcher who butchered our economy and put thousands out of work.
The reason I brought up the atrocities caused by the UK is becaused they never would have happened if the UK never existed in the first place. I know England was setting up colonies in America before the union. Like the famine in Ireland, hundreds of thousands died of starvation and Queen Victoria hardly did anything about it where an Irish government would have done something.
First of all just to correct you, it's MSP not SMP. There is no reson why an independent Scotland would be less of an influence across Europe and the world. Iceland broke away from Denmark in 1918 and is a leading developer of green energy. I know they went through the credit crisis but they jailed the bankers for poorly handling the situation, instead of giving them bonuses like our government did (and still does). Finland broke away from Russia and today it is one of the most technologically advanced countries in Europe, and it only has a population of over 5 million (roughly the same as Scotland). A small country can still have a huge influence in the world and still maintain good relations with it's neighbours. Czechoslovakia disbanded because they couldn't come up with an economic policy that would benefit both sides. Years later, most people in the Czech Republic and Slovakia agree that independence has brought them closer than the union ever did, today they still make cross-border agreements and have very close bonds with each other. Probably the best example is Norway, when it gained independence in 1905, there was a lot of doubt and fear concerning how the nation would survive. Today it has a good oil industry (like Scotland), a fair society and often considered one of the best places to live. The Scandinavians also still feel a great amount of solidarity with each other despite the lack of a union, which comes to show you that the best people to make choices for a country are the people who live in it.
Just recently, former Chancellor of the Exchequer Denis Healey adimitted the government deliberately downplayed Scotland's oil industry to combat growing nationalism. A while back, Cameron himself admitted Scotland could go it alone as much as England could. Another reason why I support independence is because the world is changing and we need to aswell, but if there is to be any real change here the union must go.
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I completely understand why that would frustrate you and others from specific regions other than London, I can agree with you even (living in East Anglia). I am not saying that the current government is perfect, no government is, and they do favour certain policies which could have negative effects on others (e.g. Thatcher closing the pits). However no policy can ever cater for everyone and I think you are forgetting the good things the UK government has and is doing for Scotland. Just one example: HMNB Clyde employs thousands directly and supports thousands more indirectly - the current new generation of aircraft carriers (HMS Queen Elizabeth being recently pieced together) are being built as we speak bringing millions into the Scottish economy. It is obvious that an independent Scotland would not support the amount of workers and military contracts as the UK government provides the local economy. You have to weigh the positives and negatives of the UK government in Scotland. I personally think from an economic point of view the benefits outweigh the negatives.
'The atrocities would never have happened if the UK never existed in the first place'. I disagree - had the Unions not gone ahead in 1603, 1707 and 1801 they would have happened regardless. Like I said before it was the 'done thing' of the time. England would have continued building the Empire (it would have been smaller and potentially reduced further by the French) but still. Additionally,the Scottish government were investing in foreign projects, such as the Panama company prior to the Union. Both nations would have continued to use the standard methods of getting ahead, which I accept were terrible.
Sorry for the typo. You use good examples, some of which I have not considered. I agree with you to a certain extent - the examples seem to be influential to a reasonable degree in very specific sectors, such as Norway for oil/gas. I argue that the UK is influential in many, many areas. The biggest being potentially amongst the most important (you may disagree) areas; diplomatic, militarily and general economics (being a member of the G7, G8 etc.). Scotland would lose this colossal influence only to specialise in certain smaller sectors. And as for the oil argument, I must disagree yet again. The SNP's projections for the oil sector supporting something like a 1/3 of the economy is ridiculous. The actual amount of revenue created from that sector would be just enough to maintain the NHS in Scotland! While Salmond talks of an oil boom, in reality the figures tell us a different story. Additionally, the UK North Sea oil reserves will of course not all go to Scotland. Scotland's share which it would in reality retain is considerably smaller than what Salmond is saying - the maritime border will not necessarily go horizontally out from the land border. Yet more lies and exaggerations. I have not heard of Healey's 'confession' but the facts still stand. So many different companies, independent bodies etc etc have all come to the same conclusion - oil is insufficient to maintain Scotland as it stands today, let alone allow it to become Alex Salmond's idea of an independent Scotland.
I am not disagreeing that Scotland could 'go it alone'. I am arguing that Scotland would be much better off as part of the United Kingdom. To completely 'go it alone' the Scottish people would have to make serious sacrifices.
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It would be ridiculous to believe Scotland's economy solely relies on it's oil industry, as it would be to believe all foreign contracts in Scotland would cease the moment it declares independence. Everyone knows how valuable Scotland's ship building industry is, and the best people who know how to run it are the Scots themselves. It would be much better to have it run by the people who live there and know how it works than by people who live hundreds of miles away and are more focused on attacking the poor and disabled.
The government of Westminster clearly does not care about Scotland or it's people. They do not recognise Gaelic and have tried time and time again to make it extinct (along with many other languages); it has survived because they wish to keep their heritage alive and keep Britain truly diverse. Westminster also wastes millions of pounds keeping Trident just outside Glasgow, Scotland's most populous city. This not only puts their lives at risk but also shows Westminster would spend money on weapons we don't need rather than helping others in desperate situations.
I may be part Scottish but I believe that they should follow their own path and build the society they see fit. The SNP isn't the only party in Scotland (or the only one backing independence) and Salmond is difinitely not the eccentric dictator that the London-based media make him out to be. He said he is proud to be Scotland's longest running first minister, but he does not plan to go on. He might not be perfect (no-one really is, but he's been doing a much better job at maintaining society than Cameron has. If they gained full power, that society could really flourish and bring about another celtic tiger. Once you seize control of your destiny, there is no knowing what you can achieve.
Independence could be the change we need to shake the Lib-Lab-Con from their foundations. Get them to stop focusing on Scotland and start listening to us, the English. While they bicker on about prolonging a dead empire, our troops are getting murdered on the streets, our flag (St. George's Cross) is becoming banned from being displayed and our culture is being eroded by mass-immigration. If something doesn't change soon, we could be looking at the death of our identity.
"Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum floats to the top." - Edward Abbey
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The United Kingdom rocks even more! lol
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though I am trying to be neutral not being British and all I just want to say the "Vote NO to Scottish independence and protect the union" has 15,887 likes and "Yes Scotland" has 12,107 likes. so congrats on that.
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Thank you 
The current poles suggest that most people will vote no so he campaign against independence is going strong.
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A united country is greater than the sum of her parts!
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Exactly
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I hope Great Britain remains united!
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Me too! Thanks for the support
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Welkies! ^^
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