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wbyrd — Belt fed 9mm Machine Gun
#machinegun #miltary #submachinegun #weapon
Published: 2019-03-10 23:14:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 6426; Favourites: 176; Downloads: 33
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Description
Based on the prototype created by August Coender. the weapon feeds from a disintegrating link housed n a drum to the side of the weapon. Intended as a self defense weapon for vehicles, or as a weapon for close combat the weapon lacks the power of a rifle cartridge but has a massive advantage in magazine capacity over a magazine fed Submachine Gun. In a vehicle the weapon could be fed by a large box allowing it to maintain suppression fire against infantry or hose down a neighboring vehicle to protect it from infantry trying to place explosives or use a can of gas to set it on fire.The front sight flips up, or down to allow it to be used through a narrow firing slot or pistol port, and back up to be used when carried by a soldier. it is a fairly straightforward blowback weapon firing from an open bolt. The design has the benefit making it simpler to manufacture than a gas operated system using tubing and stamped parts. with only a few parts requiring any sort of complex machining.
The practicality of this type of weapon man never be known since Coender is about the only example of a belt fed 9mm I can find records of, and that gun was incomplete and had to be competed by US army to test the design. And evidently Coender was cantankerous enough to spend a while hiding out in a cabin to avoid interrogation after the war , so it's likely he wasn't involved n the work or testing.
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Comments: 24
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I got the idea after watching Forgotten Weapons, watching both he one on Coender, and the Hellriegel. it was just too good a concept to pass up, both mechanically and visually
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Rather unconventional, but it looks like it could get the job done.
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For an in vehicle weapon perhaps a bag would be more appropriate. would allow the ammunition to hang under the weapon not restricting full use of weapons port with side mounted fixed drum, bags also easier to re-belt quickly. See if you can find Freedom Ordnance FM-9 AR-15 upper conversion for modern belt feed 9m/m.
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The rigid box is for dismounted use, or for a passenger in a vehicle such as a jeep or motorcycle etc... In a vehicle it would probably feed from some sort of bag or hopper......and Thanks for the suggestion I found a lot of material i can use for other projects
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It will be interesting to see what you do with it. I rather enjoy your work. Have you ever thought of updating the old LeMatt revolver?
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It's magnificent, but it isn't a weapon I'd want to take to war. I've loaded belts for medium machine guns, 7.62x51mm for MG3s, 7.62x54R for PKMs, I even have a friend who owns a Third Reich-era MG42 we shoot on the weekends, and getting all the links together for a disintegrating belt and assembling them WITH the cartridges in place is a pain in the usw., even when the ammunition is long and lean and has lots of bearing surface. I can't imagine wasting my day stuffing stubby nines into a belt, one that falls apart or otherwise, and the non-d configuration is so much nicer to refill under any circumstance. The only way this could be a viable weapon is if the belts came from the factory that way, a machine stuffed them for you, and you had the luxury of firing and walking away from the leavings.
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thank you kind sir/ma'am....Maybe I should go with a non disintegrating belt for the write up...and sir I am jealous I have only got to fire an MG once an it was a pretty basic .30cal browning.
As A rule I'd say this would be one of those clever ideas that was doomed simply by the pain in the butt it would cause for the guys in supply. As you pointed out keeping these things fed with bets and loading belts all day would probably inspire a mutiny. If it did make it into use the belts would probably be prepacked as you suggested. But ya got to admit having a few hundred rounds on tap for an smg sized weapon would be ....interesting to say the least
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Wbyrd: I've thought about it since I flashed at you earlier, and although I'd still say the concept is NEAT, and that I'd like to have one because we all deserve two of everything, I can't find a practical application for it outside of electronic gaming, that mythical realm where a weapon always works perfectly because you've programmed it to!
You're going to hate me, but I'm a class-3 dealer. I have a new-build Thompson M1928A1, crafted from a kit on a new receiver. I own two 50 round drums for it. I also have a PPSh-41 with the correct drum, for 70. Unless one could get WAY more ammo in the belt for your baby, it just isn't going to be worth the fuss the belt introduces. Submachineguns are close range weapons, where having the gun jam really sucks. A belt-fed, crew served medium machinegun is a base-of-fire weapon. If it fails and needs attention, you hopefully have a platoon or two of your guys between you and them to give you time to pick at the action and fix what's jammed. And if you're compelled to fight close in, never forget the virtues of the old fashioned shotgun! With few exceptions, I would throw down the SMG and take up a Winchester '97 pump instead... full auto fire is a great way to waste expensive ammunition, and Uncle Sugar hasn't bought my bullets since Gulf War One! P.S.- Browning MGs are cool!!!
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Yeah sadly a Shooter would be the only place it would be practical..... damn realism, logistics, and practicality.
and yes I am jealous. I have a couple of friends who are Class III dealers, which is why I have been able to fire off a few of the more interesting firearms.
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Don't let me discourage you from exploring the more fantastic aspects of gun design. I may be class III (I speak Arabic, and travel to the Middle East to represent Barrett Firearms with the governments there) but I am also, primarily a science fiction writer, and get to stick some absurdities into my stories from time to time. Years ago, I wrote a five-book series that had my protagonist character stuck in a computer game that came from the company who made the flight simulator she liked. The game claimed to be a "world simulator", and when she set it up, she thought she'd get WWII or something like it. Instead, she and her best friend were mercenary pilots from an offworld Planet O' the Nazis, helping a lesser Allied (Axis?) nation in their war against an Asianish, Marxist/Fascist headhunter people called the BOLOS, savages who used Japanese (or almost) weapons, spoke a pseudoTurkish language (with the Ls turned to Rs) and filed their teeth to menacing points. There were Mausers and Arisakas aplenty, but I screwed with calibers and played fast and loose with history. Most everybody was shooting 7.92x50 rimless, a rifle cartridge that's the bastard lovechild of 8mm Mauser and 7.62 NATO. The older, long receiver Mausers shot 7.92x70mm, an infantryman's round with some reach to it. MP40 submachineguns fired 11.25x20mm rimless (.45 GAP?) and so on. When I'm writing fiction like this, I do try to keep the real world workings of firearms authentic, but I don't feel constrained to play nice. Your belt gun would be fun... don't get me wrong... it's just that, like my Luger, it wouldn't be the first thing I'd take to a gunfight.
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I do illustrations fr folks, so I do direct reproductions of vehicles and weapons. I save my flights of fancy for my own projects and some pen and paper RPG materials I have done.
The world you described sounds like it was fun, if complicated, to work up I might have to look into it. It took me several years to work out the details of my own setting...now all I have to do is put it all together.
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I have the luxury of being a writer. I create my pictures with words. I make time to isolate myself from the world and write my dreamy dreams, and never face the constraints of working on commission. You do cool work, and I can't help wonder what would be the result were your flights of fancy to be set free. I know from my own experience that being a novelist is nothing special, that we all have a story to tell. Sometimes I don't understand what I'm trying to say until I'm well into a work, or finished. I recently let a girlfriend of mine read the original manuscript to a book I wrote in the 1980s, a novel that has only appeared in Japanese translation for their women's romance market. Her jaw dropped, she began waving her arms and saying over and over, "Do you have any idea how dangerous this is?" I reread my thirty-year-old book and shuddered. I don't remember saying any of that, and it's all there on the page...
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I feel the same way about all my work either written or modeled. Its not anything most people can't do if they put some work into it...Its a bit like singing or dancing everyone can do it...very few can do it to a level people want to pay them. And frot eh start I knew most of y work would be for fun, for my own enjoyment, and maybe a few people would like it. So when I actually sold a few pieces, got a chance to write some game material, and my gallery actually had watchers i was happy as hell. Just being able to take the Lady out for dinner, and buy a cup of coffee once in awhile is worth the effort.
I posted some of my writing, and every time I go look at it I cringe. If I could do the story justice Id be a much happier camper..and one with a nicer tent to sleep in
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I think I told you (note: I maintain raging conversations with a number of cool people, so if I didn't, don't hold it against me) that I recently let one of my girlfriends read the original manuscript for something I published in the Japanese sci-fi market thirty years ago. She paced around my house with the printout like she was dancing with it, brow furrowed, and kept asking me if I understood how dangerous what I had written really was. You talk about cringing! I wrote something about reincarnation and atonement with a teenaged girl in the year 2100 living down atrocities she committed as a he, as a charismatic/demagogic leader in America's Second Civil War. I didn't remember writing most of it, and I managed to portray the details of our contemporary society just a little too close to the truth. The young lady who read my story is an A-list actress I met when working in Hollywood nine/ten years ago; she is now pushing me to revive this occult lesbian romance and fling it at the current American market. I need this like I need an eighth hole in my head... I think I'm already being watched!
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What is this? Hypothetical K.u.K. Landwehr weapons development in 1915? Man this takes me back to the good old times... Nice drawing.
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I took the ammo drum idea from the Mg08/15 and married it to the Coender 9mm LMG prototype from WWII. Nice to see a fellow fan of the early Weapons development concepts. So many weapons that just have something very unique about them. I may have to tackle a few more in the future.
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