Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-10-25 14:45:39 +0000 UTC]

My pleasure, it was really very fascinating, I'd love to see a grammar for your language!

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-10-25 17:09:29 +0000 UTC]

Oh dear, I'll have to dust it of then!

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-10-25 20:28:40 +0000 UTC]

Haha! Yes please, I'm sure it's very fascinating. Is it much like Sanskrit?

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-10-26 16:14:10 +0000 UTC]

Well, I've always been one of those weird people who like mixing a priori and a posteriori, so my main inspiration was Sanskrit, and later Avestan. Unintentionally, the language retained more ande more sound changes typical to Avestan, so...

But no, I've tried to change the vocabulary as much as possible, and the grammar is vastly different (for example tripartite alignment...) , as the phonology.

I wanted that mix between artificial and natural, which led me to an excess of allophony and the highly artificial tripartite alignment

Nevertheless, I shall stop ramble now! Still, I'm very grateful for the interest!

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-10-27 03:31:45 +0000 UTC]

Ha ha, no! Rambling is wonderful, rambling about linguistics is even better!

That sounds really interesting. I've never used a tripartite system before, only nom-acc and erg-abs. I should try it sometime.

I've bot heard much of Avestan. It is related to Sanskrit isn't it?

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-10-27 06:14:53 +0000 UTC]

Haha! Thanks!

Well, I don't really like tripartite languages normally, too unnatural. I wanted to play with a transitivity system I found in Hungarian however...!

There's a reason why you haven't heard much of Avestan - it's not very famous. Zoroastrians use it as a sacred language, but then, they're quite few. And yes, it is related to Sanskrit! It is an Eastern Iranian language, whilst Sanskrit is Indo-Aryan, making them related about in the same way as Russian and Lithuanian!

This is quite fun! Are you an a priori or a posteriori person?

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-10-27 15:11:30 +0000 UTC]

Hmmm, fascinating. Tell me about this Hungarian system, I'm unfortunately ignorant about Hungarian.

I need to get me a book for Avestan now. Sounds really interesting.

I've dabbled in both, but I'd have to say I'm an a priori person. But what I really do is borrow vocabulary from previous conlangs, for fun I like to pick a word and trace it's etymology through my other languages.

My favorite conlang of mine is Panbairion, it's one of my older ones, it was originally designed to look something like Sanskrit and sound something like my dead elven language Ellari. It's grammar is a mess though, I need to clean it up big time.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-10-28 17:18:54 +0000 UTC]

On the Avestan language: I'm sure there's a PDF grammar out there long forgotten...

I didn't copy the Hungarian system, but it inspired me - if I were to revise the lang, I might make a system similar to it though... Hungarian distinguishes "definite" and "indefinite" objects on the verb, which happens to coincide with transitivity in most cases! This link to Wikipedia has a great table, but the text is pretty much crap... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_verbs#Definite_and_indefinite_conjugations

(I don't know if it's possible to create links! Help!)

Oooh, finally! It's seemed like I was the only one who liked doing that! Even other conlangers think borrowing from your own languages is weird. Then, the reason might be somewhat mixed up with that I hate creating vocabulary...

Also, I like the names of those languages, good aesthetics.

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-10-29 03:03:59 +0000 UTC]

I must get my PDF Hunting license then. Ha.

Wow, that is an odd system, I've never heard of anything like that. Very awesome. The only times I ever really deal with transitivity is with Pioxan, really my only erg-abs language.

Really, I've never heard about that. To me, it makes sense. Making vocabulary takes so long, why not just look to previously-made words? I really only borrow from my "dead" languages, but it can be awkward when I realise two of my current conlangs have words with shared etymology. Oh well, it's bound to happen. The most embarrassing mistake I ever made was creating my elven language and not paying attention to the subconscious borrowings I made from Sindarin and Quenya. Goodness. That is why Ellari is dead.

Ha ha, thank you. I should publish something here for Panbarion, I have more on it than my others.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-10-30 13:09:13 +0000 UTC]

Yes, PDFs are vicious animals, always lurking in the dark, waiting for a chance to strike at a bypassing Bibliography...!

Yeah, creating vocabulary takes an age. Yet I don't get people using word generators. Then they wouldn't be my words, with their own history and backgorund...

I don't have "dead" languages so far... Most of my languages are so naturalistic I just put 'em in an contemporary Earth... Well, at least you haven't made an incredibly bad Esperantido that looked like fugly Latin crossed with Danish... Since I am a "reviser", that very language ended up being Namic! I just began creating new languages a few years ago, before that I just revised my old ones beyond recognition. Bit sad, since I lost a lot of good sketches.

Well, if not here you're welcome on the Conlang Wikkii! If you like the wiki format and our host stops destroying the code, that is..! :/

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-10-30 15:18:31 +0000 UTC]

I know what you mean, I suppose it would be nice to have all your words set our, waiting for their grammar to set them in line, but I love making my own words even if it takes forever.

I have, Romari. Goodness, it's beginning to look nicer but still too Latin.

I once tried doing that, but I decided it would be easier just to put my languages in their own world. Panbairion is the proto-language of my world and many of my other languages are the daughter languages.

Ah, I have heard of the Conlang Wiki, I've never used it though. Maybe I should.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-10-30 22:01:43 +0000 UTC]

Exactly my point.

Well, at least Latin looks good. My first language was more like a mutated Danish. As a Swede, I can with confidence say that Danish doesn't look very good... And the worst part was that I thought it would be better than Esperanto... But then, this was 7 years ago.

I've never been much of a conworlder. I suppose it's weird, and I do envy those that are... I just can't see beyond my inspiration and my wishes of my languages to be natural...!

Well, using a wiki is quite different to other formats. I'm one of the administrators of the Conlang Wikkii (which is currently down...) which is a fork of the one at Wikia. We just couldn't stand being overlooked by them, so we started something of our own. It's just a few months old though! Then there's Frath, of course, which I personally don't use. Well, you'd be welcome!

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-10-30 22:53:05 +0000 UTC]

I love Swedish, such a lovely language. But Danish, mmm, well it sounds less lovely. I think you know what I mean. Those inter-dental approximants are quitesomething.

It's the only way I do it. I suppose I would be interested in creating a naturalistic language that could exist on Earth, but I don't think I've tried.

I'll definitely have to check it out.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-10-31 11:26:50 +0000 UTC]

I'll thank you for the fav here than! Thank you!

I'm glad you like Swedish, it is indeed a language with a singing quality! Not as useful or accessible as English though! There's a joke in Scandinavia, that Danes speak with potatoes in their mouth - or oat meal.

I think I'm too down to earth and boring to dare making a conworld. :/ And it requires far too much dedication!

And you're welcome there of course. Ever been on the boards? Because I haven't and I don't know if I should... :/

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-01 02:41:06 +0000 UTC]

My pleasure! I'm always ready to support the conlanging world, especially when a very deserving piece of work comes along!

Yes, Swedish is wonderful, one of my favorites. I've heard that joke, I have a Danish Neighbor, she's pretty fun to listen to. Danish sounds absolutely crazy.

Yeah, it does take time, mine isn't very fantastical or magical or anything like that. Pretty realistic I think. I designed it mostly to test the evolution of my languages.

I think I know which you're talking about, and yes, I've been there, never posted anything but they're cool. It wouldn't hurt to drop in.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-01 21:08:18 +0000 UTC]

What a compliment! Merci!

Since I live on the Swedish West Coast I come in contact with both Danes and Norweigans fairly often, so the languages aren't a mystery. Norweigian sounds very jolly, if a bit foolish...

Oh excellent! Aliens...?

I've had some well "problems" with an avid member of one of the boards so I'd prefer not to - but I like that there are more communities! Makes me feel less weird!

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-02 00:46:56 +0000 UTC]

Ha! De rien!

I definitely need to visit Sweden, I need more books in Swedish. I have four. One is a children's book called 'Hattjakten'.

Not really, only humans. I have different languages for my alien cultures. I didn't want to get lost in the people of my language and get distracted.

I know what you mean, I feel like I'm the only one who conlangs because I know no one who conlangs outside of the internet.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-02 11:16:31 +0000 UTC]

Oooh no! Don't visit Sweden, it is not as nice as you'd think. Except a province called Bohuslän. That's a nice place.

I can with confidence say that I've never heard of that book. I've heard of the author, but not the book! I have a few books in English though...!

Thank God. I don't really like alien languages. But that's smart, because I think the anthropology part easily could take over.

Yeah, me too. Then my parents look at me as if were a freak. However, I have succeded in converting a "friend" of mine into conlanging! I influenced him for a while, and then he began creating a language for a game [sic] of his... It seems conlanging is fairly common in Sweden, though.

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-02 20:35:32 +0000 UTC]

I'm sure it's wonderful. Stockholm looks nice in pictures, I mostly just want/need books in Swedish.

It's pretty cool, I can't understand everything but what I can is delightful.

I like them if they don't sound totally awful. I personally am a fan of the idea of a language that lacks something that is very common for earth languages.

I know the feeling, I am alone as a conlanger in Northern America. Well, not really, one of the hosts and one of the older-hosts of the Conlangery Podcast live in Wisconsin.

Ha ha! See! Another reason I need to go to Sweden.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-02 22:12:15 +0000 UTC]

I've actually never been to Stockholm, which is kinda weird...

I once read about a language that had some extraterrestrial avian speakers, that didn't have lips. They had a /p/ though...

Yes, you must be the one and only North American conlanger I've ever encountered...! William S. Annis, isn't it? And George Corley moved?

Well, that's actually pretty weird, because languages are extremely uninteresting to most of the Swedish youth. The knowledge of grammar has been completely devastated recently, on the very governments initiative. So for me to find som many Swedish conlangers is really quite mysterious. And Poles, God I've met a lot of Polish conlangers.

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-03 01:07:04 +0000 UTC]

I suppose I've never been to D.C. either, not totally weird.

That seems to be badly thought out. I'm developing a language (though it's on a back-burner as of now) that uses a combination of spoken and signed elements. And it's probably going to end up being tonal. It's a mess.

I'm a rare race for sure. And yes, those be them. Do you listen to it?

That is terribly sad. America is very linguistically challenged, nobody knows anything here. When people hear I take Chinese AND Spanish in School they go, 'Hell are you insane? Isn't English enough?' It is quite a pain.

To Poland!

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-03 07:44:29 +0000 UTC]

Then the US is a bit larger than Sweden...

That sounds interesting! Like the Bubi people of Bioko! Their language is supposedly mostly signed!

If I do! I haven't listened to the last episodes though, because my browsers can't be bothered to play the podcast... :/

Well, in Sweden, Americans aren't exactly known for their eloquence or linguistical knowledge... I met one once that thought I spoke "European". That's a bit weird since linguistics is more popular as a subject of science in the US than anywhere else in the world!

Starting to learn a third language is compulsory in Sweden, but most people don't exactly develop their knowledge further after the courses have ended...

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-03 15:10:07 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, that's true I suppose.

That is interesting, I've never heard about them. My main problem is deciding what parts of speech should be signed and which should be spoken.

I love that Podcast.

Oh goodness. I'm not surprised, Americans are an ignorant bunch. I know, because I live among them. It surprises me how popular linguistics is here though, I've only met one person who was interested in linguistics, few people actually know what it is.

Do they offer many, they really only offer like six here, French, German, Spanish of course, Latin and Japanese occasionally, and Chinese is growing in popularity. I love Chinese.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-03 22:04:16 +0000 UTC]

I first heard of them on QI!

Yeah, it is absolutely great. Shame Annis had to leave though.

I actually can't say I've met many Americans, but a lot of Canadians. I can't say I've been a fan of those Canadians I've met though... :/

Well, my school is rather limited. They offer English (compulsory), Spanish, French, German, Italian, Russian, Chinese (to a certain extent) Latin and Ancient Greek.

Others have Japanese (fairly common), Arabic, as well as the official minority languages Miänkieli, Finnish (common), Romani, Yiddish and Sami. I read somewhere that 70% of the Swedes speak at least 3 languages at a decent level. Still, the interest for languages is cool at best... :/

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-03 22:49:17 +0000 UTC]

I know, but he'll back back, hopefully.

I've never met a Canadian, which is odd considering I live like five miles from the Canadian Border. I am a bad American.

I would love to take Saami in school, that would be the coolest thing ever. I would love to learn Ojibwe in school some colleges offer it here, it's fairly big in Bemiji, Minnesota.

Languages rock, people should show more interest. However, I think I might have swayed some people in my speech class when I gave a speech about how to best learn foreign languages, most had no interest at first, but many agreed they should have taken notes when I finished. I think it was successful.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-03 23:12:42 +0000 UTC]

Let's hope so.

You appear more open-minded than the Canadians I've met, despite their opposite reputation! I can't comment on Americans since I've met very few of them, but as I said, they aren't very well liked generally. Except for your language. And music. I've met a lot of Brits as well! One of my best friends for example!

Saami is an incredibly ugly family of languages... I'd prefer to learn a Native American language!

Speeches, yes, speeches. Americans have a very interesting school of rhetorics, (speech analysis is really quite interesting) which differs a lot from the majority of the European customs. The US elections are studied extensively here in Sweden.

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-03 23:21:47 +0000 UTC]

Thank ye kindly. I think it's amusing you mention our language, us Americans are quite critical of our language.

Our music? Like Country? Or Pop? I don't listen to 'American' music, mostly German, Iirsh, Swedish, Icelandic, and Latin music fr me.

I quite like the Uralic Languages, they are pretty cool. And yeah, the native American languages are awesome, I need more books for them now that I think about it.

What is the talk about our presidential election of now? I don't follow it, politics in America get painful.

What are the different dialects of Swedish like in Sweden?

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-03 23:53:38 +0000 UTC]

Oh, are you? I didn't know that?

Mostly the exported pop artists of yours. I'm not much of a music person, although I appreciate that we'll host the Eurovision Song Contest next year! (if you've heard of it!)

Well, apparently Obama got a boost from the Sandy hurricane... :/ And yes, Swedes too find your politics tiresome, a bit too much show and no concrete suggestions.

In Sweden? Well, I speak a dialect, sometimes considered a sociolect, unlike the Standard Swedish. The dialects are fairly diverse I suppose. Then, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are often perceived as dialects, so, they can be rather diverse! A few of them, Dalecarlian and Elfdalian are so conservative they are unintelligible for Swedes and are more closely related to Icelandinc and Faeroese!

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-04 00:02:04 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, Americans love critising English Spelling. It gets tiring.

I have heard of it, but I never have given it much attention.

Probably, I probably should put more thought into our elections, but I don't. I really don't like Obama, but looks like we're stuck with him again.

Would that be högsvenska? I love Elfdalian, there are few resources in English and my Swedish isn't good enough to be able to understand enough of the things in Swedish. Bah. Language barriers, curse you.

So, what are some grammar or vocabulary differences between your dialect and the Standard Swedish?

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-04 00:18:32 +0000 UTC]

I beg your pardon? Is there something wrong with spicing the spelling with 'u's and 'c's?

No god time to tell you that almost every Swede (including me) would like to see Obama on the throne for another four years then... American politics are simply to conservative and liberal for us, and Obama's the lesser of two evils. When you (well, not you, ) call him a socialist, Swedes would by communists by comparison! We've been social democratic for almost 70 years

Well, no, there is no "Standard Swedish" and Högsvenska (extra points for that though!) is rather a special dialect in the Northern Stockholm and Uppsala area. I can't recall what the "proper Swedish"'d be, but I think it's a smaller town Southwest of Stockholm. Haha! Welcome to Europe! There are nothing but language barriers!

There are mostly phonological differences. Most of my vowels are vastly more rounded, and my standard vowel inventory stretches to 25 vowels, I believe! Grammatically it is not especially interesting. Lexically, we have a few words that are odd, a few for "girl" at the top of my head, and discourse particles, and few others. Many come from Dutch, Scots and English because Gothenburg (my territories) was essentially built by them!

More interestingly, Swedish is a tonal language (sort of), and the main distinction between dialects is the pitch accent! My dialect is famous for being low-rising-high, making it sound quite happy!

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-04 00:31:21 +0000 UTC]

I personally love English, but I was raised speaking it so I'm biased.

Yeah, ha ha, Sweden and it's socialism.

I see, what is Rikssvenska?

Vowels are awesome, one of my favorite moments from the Conlangery Podcast was when Biance called Swedish a vowel whore. That made my life. Discourse Particles? Have you any examples? Swedish Grammar is just wonderful.

I don't think I know any words for girl in Swedish off the top of my head...

That is so awesome, Tones are my favorite thing ever, one of my languages uses it to distinguish moods. It is terribly confusing, but I love it.

Do you know much about American English Dialects?

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-04 12:49:37 +0000 UTC]

Craaaaaaaaap! I had written a really long message which disappeared... Again.

Yeah, I know, we've been social democratic for 70 years, but we've had a liberal government for 8 years now. I'd like for it to stay that way for another 4 years!

I remember that episode, one of the first! I was glad to hear that she studied Swedish, but when heard some bits, the pronuncation was... Well.

I'll give some examples, but they are difficult to translate! All discourse particles are! The most common ones are 'la' /la/ and 'änna' /ˈɛ̞̂nːǎ/. They combine well with the word for "not", 'inte' /ˈɪ̂ntɛ̌/.

'la' implies recognition and different degrees of certainty:
*Det var la bra. - That was good, wasn't it?
*Han kommer la'tte. - He probably won't come.

'änna' is reinforcing often expressing some sort of intent:
*Nu kommer du änna hit! - Get your ass over here!
*Jag kan änna dansa! - I can dance rather well!

Well, I'm not very knowledgeable on American dialects. I know of the cot-caught merger, faucet-spigot, soft drink-soda-pop and that proper Bostoners and New Yorkes drop final /ɹ/!

It would be weird if I didn't know any though!

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Aernyk In reply to Waahlis [2012-11-04 15:12:27 +0000 UTC]

Hmmm interesting, I imagine they are. I've actually never learned about discourse particles and I've never heard of la or änna. Are they mostly slangy?

I love learning about American Dialects.

I speak a Minnesotan Dialect but it's not terribly pronounced because I live in the suburbs, those in rural areas sound looney.

Our vowels are higher than in other parts, we have the cot-caught merger and our /ɹ/. People say we over-emphasize our /o/. As for vocabulary, we use 'dontcha know?', 'you betcha', and 'uff da'. Those are all pretty stereotypically Minnesotan. We also talk very fast, according to the slow talking southerners. Our most famous word is probably hotdish, it's basically a casserole that can have anything in it.

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Waahlis In reply to Aernyk [2012-11-04 16:00:56 +0000 UTC]

Well, the distinction between 'slang' and 'dialects' is very loose in Sweden. Some people'd call it slang, some dialectal.

I'm sorry I'm so ignorant then...

How interesting! I personally wouldn't ever consider merging cot and caught. That'd be like merging taxi and pizza. Pretty weird!

'uff da'? XD You speak faster? Good, most Americans speak slow, slower than Brits. Then English is a pretty slow language in comparison with Spanish or Swedish! Russian's kinda slow as well...

Would you mind continuing the discussion with notes? This is a bit tedious if you need to look through it all!

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Aernyk In reply to SanguineEpitaph [2012-03-19 13:20:28 +0000 UTC]

I recognise about half of those! Irish, Na'vi, and Welsh especially!

And you're super welcome!

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SanguineEpitaph In reply to Aernyk [2012-03-19 13:51:41 +0000 UTC]

Yay! More than most.

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Aernyk In reply to SanguineEpitaph [2012-03-19 14:30:50 +0000 UTC]

yay! I am special.

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SanguineEpitaph In reply to Aernyk [2012-03-19 18:52:36 +0000 UTC]

Indeed!

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Aernyk In reply to DeidarasGal [2010-12-03 16:49:59 +0000 UTC]

Laid-back when he's alone with her but once someone else comes around he get's back to his cruel, strict, elitist self. He's NEVER mean to Laundra however.

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DeidarasGal In reply to Aernyk [2010-12-03 16:51:11 +0000 UTC]

Sweet >< What is his night clothes like?

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Aernyk In reply to DeidarasGal [2010-12-03 17:00:13 +0000 UTC]

Night? Like pajamies?

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DeidarasGal In reply to Aernyk [2010-12-03 17:01:29 +0000 UTC]

yeah, its for the story

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Aernyk In reply to DeidarasGal [2010-12-03 17:02:24 +0000 UTC]

Hmm, just long pajamie pants. Black.

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