Escodrion In reply to MomRok8 [2023-12-29 22:11:28 +0000 UTC]

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Escodrion In reply to Ferrabra [2023-12-02 10:52:33 +0000 UTC]

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Escodrion In reply to Orphydian [2021-03-26 12:03:05 +0000 UTC]

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Orphydian In reply to Escodrion [2021-03-27 00:02:51 +0000 UTC]

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Escodrion In reply to Orphydian [2021-03-27 07:39:58 +0000 UTC]

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Orphydian In reply to Escodrion [2021-03-28 03:59:12 +0000 UTC]

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Escodrion In reply to Orphydian [2021-03-28 08:27:22 +0000 UTC]

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Orphydian In reply to Escodrion [2021-03-28 09:23:24 +0000 UTC]

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Escodrion In reply to HunterzKar98 [2020-06-26 06:20:14 +0000 UTC]

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HunterzKar98 In reply to Escodrion [2020-06-26 06:33:37 +0000 UTC]

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Escodrion In reply to HunterzKar98 [2020-06-26 06:37:57 +0000 UTC]

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Escodrion In reply to HunterzKar98 [2020-06-26 06:34:56 +0000 UTC]

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Escodrion In reply to camorus----234 [2020-04-29 16:53:00 +0000 UTC]

Will do! Those figures in particular were very helpful for finding the Lipka Tatar uniform

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camorus----234 In reply to Escodrion [2020-05-03 11:13:43 +0000 UTC]

Glad to be of use! Your books look interesting, are they self produced?

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Escodrion In reply to camorus----234 [2020-05-04 14:45:27 +0000 UTC]

The book isn't mine, I just illustrated it. The articles are written by me and then hosted on the Tanks Encyclopedia website.

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camorus----234 In reply to Escodrion [2020-05-05 11:58:00 +0000 UTC]

I thought I recognised the style on Tank Encyclopaedia website. You put so much detail into your work, congratulations on that. U certainly know a lot about AFVs.
Are you safe from Corona virus where you are?

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Escodrion In reply to camorus----234 [2020-05-07 06:10:30 +0000 UTC]

Thanks! I'm not sure I know that much, most people at TE know way more than I do, I would say I know the basics. Yeah, I'm pretty safe here, working from home and we haven't had that many cases here when compared to some other countries.

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camorus----234 In reply to Escodrion [2020-05-07 20:32:13 +0000 UTC]

Good that you are safe, u certainly know a lot about obscure AFVs by the looks of the TE subjects you have covered.
Stay safe and happy drawing.

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Escodrion In reply to camorus----234 [2020-05-09 06:44:06 +0000 UTC]

Obscure AFVs are the best cause it's less likely that someone can prove you wrong about them. Thanks, you too!

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camorus----234 In reply to Escodrion [2020-05-09 20:49:32 +0000 UTC]

Good idea, like your way of thinking AFVs wise.

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Escodrion In reply to MarkAlexValdendorf [2019-12-29 11:02:04 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!

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Escodrion In reply to eltf177 [2019-12-28 08:39:43 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!

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Escodrion In reply to withinamnesia [2018-10-04 10:42:15 +0000 UTC]

The easy answer would be something like this: 

This is (supposedly) one of Edward Habich's designs for a Polish medium/heavy tank. It was designed around 1939 as PZInż's design for the 20/25TP project.

It has a 90 mm gun (90 mm wz. 39S), weighs around 45t, has a 650 hp engine and a top speed of around 35 km/h.

The thing is, in the scenario I'm picturing most of my tanks in, neither Russia nor Germany is a problem (Russia hasn't existed as a separate entity since 1618) and Germany never unified. More info is available here (although it's still very under construction): commonwealth-triumphant.weebly…

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withinamnesia In reply to Escodrion [2018-10-05 02:18:14 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, that is a Wargaming invention that (although tempting) has many faults and hindsight 'inventions' that were rammed into it.

I worked on the Polish tank tree for World of Tanks and there are quite a few tanks that were 'saved' (>.>) for probably a medium branch. I have everything archived and I have discovered a few historical Polish tanks. Such as the T-34/100 (1955):


Actually there is a true 22-25 tonne Polish medium tank from 1939 of which that 'Wargaming invention' is based on (which took years of passionate hard work for the Polish community to reconstruct): forum.warthunder.com/index.php… .

Please, the 25TP Habich is a special tank for Poland. The 25TP Habich is on par in terms of historical national significance with the P.26/40 for Italy and the Chi-Ri for Japan.

If you have not done this vehicle it is a must do. There was a wooden mock up built right before Poland capitulated and no photographs are known to exist (thus the painstaking reconstruction from patents and post war interviews).

The 22-25TP Habich has a few guns, the 75 mm gun on that 7TP tank destroyer (75 mm wz. 1897) would be a prime suspect for a historical mounting as well as the 40 mm Bofors (40 mm wz. 1936 as found on the 20/25TP K.S.U.S.T.). The long 75 mm gun would most likely be a prototype in 1940 that would be planned to go into production around 1941 to defeat KV-1 and (by then T-34/76) tanks.

So here are the gun variants of the 25TP Habich:
- Prototypes: 40 mm wz. 1936 www.dws-xip.pl/wojna/bron/pols…
- First Series: 75 mm wz. 1897 www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie…
- 'Future' Series: 75 mm wz. 1922/24 www.dws-xip.pl/wojna/bron/pols…

The KV-1 with the U-11 (early Model 1939 variant) weighs around 45 tonnes wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?… (War thunder Adds a tonne of weight in general to vehicles thus the 46 tonnes combat loaded).


Polish 45TP Thoughts
__________________
So being a stressed Polish war time engineer from being invaded in 1940 being our creative perspective and with occam's razor being our guide:

If Poland were to 'beef up' the historical 25TP Habich medium tank with 75 mm of armour (KV-1 standard) into a 45TP heavy tank variant to counter the KV-1 a new engine past the 300 hp engine used in the 25TP Habich (and 25TP K.S.U.S.T.) would be needed. I thought of this 45TP in 2017 while I was working with the Polish community on the medium line for Poland (as well as a few other yet Cold War heavy tanks based on reports like the IS-3-152 and a conjectured Tiger II 152). Wargaming might have looked into the 45TP (to link their heavy tank tree together) on the private message board while I was working with the Polish community.

A war time solution for the 45TP would be to copy of the 500 hp diesel engine from either the KV-1 or T-34 tanks since Poland does not have a company like Maybach and Poland has historically copied or license produced foreign heavy duty engines for their tanks. Although the first prototypes would be forced to 'make do' with the 300 hp engine from the 25TP Habich and perhaps (if Poland had a better prewar arms build up) a Model 1938/39 25TP K.S.U.S.T. medium tank.

The main armament of this '45TP' would have to be the 75 mm wz. 1922/24 (the only available Polish anti-tank gun that can reliably punch through the KV-1's armour and fit in the turret). Although the first prototypes would most likely be equipped an interim solution with 75 mm wz. 1897 or maybe even the (by then) obsolete 40 mm Bofors wz. 1936 as the Polish heavy industry retools to mass produce the 75 mm wz. 1922/24 (much like the story of Jagdtiger mit 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71; a shortage of guns at the beginning due to factory retooling). Does this make logical sense Bernard?

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Escodrion In reply to withinamnesia [2018-10-05 05:20:59 +0000 UTC]

I'm well aware that it's Wargaming's invention, hence the [FAKE] label on it. However that doesn't really mean I can't use it for my timeline, a lot of my tanks have rather strange what-if origins, like this 14TP-D tank destroyer:



It borrows heavily from designs like the American Howitzer Motor Carriage M8 and M10 Wolverine and is based on someone's musings on what a tank like that might look like.

I do have an illustration of Habich's 25TP:



It has the 75 mm wz. 1922/24 gun and I also have a variant with the 47mm wz. 39  (which was the gun used on the 14TP ) on my web page which I've forgotten to upload here: commonwealth-triumphant.weebly…

From the little information I could find, the two prototypes version would have had the 47mm wz. 39 and then a custom built 60mm gun until finally deciding to adopt the 75mm wz. 1922/24.

You're right, the 45TP would definitely need a new and better engine and in my version the 45TP wz. 1942 has a 650 hp engine and the 45TP wz. 1944 has a 750 hp engine. As for the gun, I think the Polish license-built copy of the French 90 mm Anti-Air gun (90 mm wz. 39S ) would be a good fit and would most likely also be able to punch through the armour of a KV-1. More stats are available in the specifications drop down menus here: commonwealth-triumphant.weebly…

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withinamnesia In reply to Escodrion [2018-10-07 19:35:01 +0000 UTC]

I am just wondering how this would realistically play out in war time Poland and what kinks and delays and obstacles would alter the Polish tank ambitions for reality and expectations are two different things.

A film is made three times, once in the script (design), second in filming (manufacturing) and third in editing (mass production and optimization). Now Poland has struggled to get a proper tank engine in place and without a proper engine domestic heavy duty engine manufacturer matured before the Second World War. What engines can Poland realistically field in 1938, 1939, 1940 and so forth given that new radical prototypes (with many initial bugs and errors) take on average 2 years to fully produce for mass production?

Italy is a roughly comparable tank nation to Poland and Italy struggled greatly to meet the war time demand for a high horse power tank engine. Even with license produced German high horsepower engines for their 'Italian Panther' project and with much technical help for Germany; Italy still struggled greatly to find a war time heavy duty high horse power tank engine solution.

Now Poland in history enters the Second World War without a proper modern domestic tank engine and even as going so far before the war to ask Maybach for an engine solution.

Perhaps if there was more drive in prewar Poland to diplomatically strong arm a locally produced 300-400 horsepower engine (even from Maybach) or seek more friendly partners such as USA (more on that later) into Poland to copy and make a domestic version perhaps then we can have a better start in our Polish tank engine question: Where does Poland gets a 300+ horsepower engine in 1939-1940?

Finland captured (in various states) the BT-5, BT-7 and T-28 tanks in 'motti' (cut off pockets of Soviet troops) in late 1939 to late 1940. The key engines to note here are the 405/450/500+ horsepower Mikulin M-17 engine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikulin_… that powered the BT-7 and T-28. The BT-5 was powered by the 400 horsepower 8-cyl petrol KhPZ M5 (or M-5-400 engine (copy of U.S. Liberty engine)).

The 400 hp Liberty engine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_… could have been licensed by Poland during the interwar period and it would have solved the domestic high performance tank engine question as well; perhaps even for the K.S.U.S.T. series tanks that should have been produced if Poland had the proper prewar military budget to do so.

With a domestic 400 hp manufactured medium and heavy tank engine in 1939-1940 would have solved many war time competitiveness issues for the Liberty based engine can be modified into a 500 horsepower engine or greater to keep pace with the high performance 500+ hp Soviet and German tank engines as the war progressed.

All I am saying is that given the body of experience with Germany and Russia and USA in their big ambitious tank plans in where they started to how long it took and how they changed and iterated along the way how can we take that real life reality into our digital simulated reality to better improve our 'playing god' of alternate Poland's war time tank production? Tanks are built around realities and modules that a nation has on-hand. It is costly and very difficult to produce advanced tank designs in a hurry, look at the first Panther tanks that were rushed into Kursk with engines that caught fire due to rushed war time conditions. It is easy to write fiction, it is hard to write history that never happened.

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Escodrion In reply to withinamnesia [2018-10-08 12:40:26 +0000 UTC]

What would you propose as a solution to this then?

As I see it we have a few options (within the confines of our non-Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth scenario)
- We produce something locally - not entirely out of the question but probably the most difficult option. I think Polish designers would be up to the task of designing such an engine, however producing it might be a problem
- We produce a licensed copy of a foreign design, something of Maybach's or perhaps something Soviet or even American
- We steal an engine and reverse engineer it somehow

Tbh, I'm not sure how to do this. In my scenario, in which the Commonwealth equals the real-life Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth from the early 17th century+all the lands up to Siberia, so sort of like the Soviet Union on steroids. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be a problem designing and producing a strong enough engine then, but if we stay away from this scenario, then the troubles of producing become hard to overcome.

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withinamnesia In reply to Escodrion [2018-10-09 10:56:25 +0000 UTC]

Well we could take an aircraft engine and down torque it to better work in a tank. This would be much like the radial engines found in the early American highly mobile tanks. This would be a bit for thinking but it could work. I think also if Poland can manufacture naval ships and the engines that go alone with it that perhaps we can go old school like the Mark I and accommodate some naval technological and manufacturing solutions to find a high performance tank engine solution for pre-war Poland.

The British used the Merlin / Meteor engines in tanks which I think were used in aircraft. The Maus was planned to use boat engines to power the tank so perhaps Poland could take a few pages out of naval and aviation industries and apply them to fix their 300-400+ horse power engine problem. This would aid in somewhat realistically solving the demand for a proper pre-war 'modern' K.S.U.S.T. tank engine that is locally produced (this solution could likewise carry over to the 25TP Habich tank family).

Perhaps if Britain can license produce the 300-400 horse power Liberty engine and if the U.S.S.R. can get help from the U.S.A. to build heavy industry in the pre-war arms build up: Then perhaps Poland with a bit of international help could license produce Liberty (or other friendly Western engine company) tank engines to power Poland's tank or the future.. Or perhaps a little bit of everything and a dash of creatively and Polish ingenuity and a bigger pre-war military budget.

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Escodrion In reply to withinamnesia [2018-10-09 18:25:55 +0000 UTC]

Huh, I hadn't thought of that. Poland did indeed employ pretty powerful British engines on their planes like the Bristol Pegasus which presumably they would have built themselves under license. The ships are a bit of another matter as I think most of them were actually built in British or French shipyards and then sold to Poland.
Poland did however have a habit of taking foreign built equipment and improving it with a very low budget, so who knows, maybe they could have come up with something better themselves based on some acquired tech.

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withinamnesia In reply to Escodrion [2018-10-12 03:28:22 +0000 UTC]

What foreign engines did Poland have under license and which ones do you think were planned or were considered or could have become natural choices if Poland had more demand and was in a fighting position from 1939 to 1941+ (even if paper plans akin to Italian 1942 paper tanks)?

Basically is there a list of foreign engines for Poland to consider so that Poland could cobble / combine into a Foreign 300-400+ horsepower tank engine?

This is just so that we have a good starting platform to go off of in conjectures for our pre-war hypothetical Polish tank planning (as in if Poland had a better arms build up Military budget).

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Escodrion In reply to withinamnesia [2018-10-12 18:02:11 +0000 UTC]

This is a list of the engines that the Polish Army used:

Ground Vehicles:

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Escodrion In reply to Brodudethagod [2018-04-15 06:52:36 +0000 UTC]

Thanks! If you're referring to the tanks, I have a few that are from other countries, but only in WWI. If you'd like something in particular I can try and draw it. I like to draw obscure tanks especially and I don't really like going past WWII. When I finish my Polish arsenal (I still have quite a bit to do: tractors, artillery pieces, armoured trains, potentially aircraft) I will probably move on to something else and I also do illustrations for Tank Encyclopedia sometimes (www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ ) so whenever I do I usually post it here.

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Escodrion In reply to MarkAlexValdendorf [2017-12-28 18:59:25 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!

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Escodrion In reply to thesketchydude13 [2017-12-28 10:15:41 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!
More artwork will be coming soon

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Escodrion In reply to withinamnesia [2017-01-02 19:56:40 +0000 UTC]

Thanks, this is a nice list and I'll definitely be using it for future reference. Tbh, though, I'm not sure any Polish tank chassis would have been capable of carrying most of these guns, maybe once they came up with a more modern heavy tank (something closer to 50/60 tonnes), but by then I would also expect them to have created more modern guns as well.

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Escodrion In reply to Escodrion [2017-01-06 07:50:16 +0000 UTC]

Well, I suppose they could, but then I'd venture the ship and train turrets would have to be replaced with something smaller, although you're right that the guns themselves could probably be housed.

I guess some of the Polish guns could be upgraded. I've done that myself as well, I put a muzzle suppressor on the 75mm wz. 1897 gun when I put it on my 7tp tank destroyer variant: escodrion.deviantart.com/art/P…

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