Flishstar In reply to Kiryu2012 [2019-12-06 03:28:55 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!

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Kiryu2012 In reply to Flishstar [2019-12-07 19:41:00 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome.

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Flishstar In reply to Tigon1Monster [2019-12-03 23:46:42 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!

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Tigon1Monster In reply to Flishstar [2019-12-03 23:56:43 +0000 UTC]

You're Welcome.

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BichirMan In reply to Paleop [2019-04-24 02:07:37 +0000 UTC]

I don't know, considering majority of the animal kingdom says otherwise...

Considering most of your animals tend to be like uniformly brownish I find it surprising you're saying that his color schemes are unrealistic...

I'm not saying dinosaurs being brownish is unrealistic but if you look at even mammals they're pretty diverse in coloration and patterning. Bongo, chevrotains, giant anteaters, sitatunga, okapi, even zebras say hi. Come on, be more creative.

I find it very pathetic that you're calling him out over "unrealistic colorations" in what seems to be subtle but rude manner (even if it was unintentional). 

Your animals don't have much texture either so I don't know how that's also necessary either

Also, I don't see anything wrong with his shadows to be honest

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Paleop In reply to BichirMan [2019-04-24 17:30:26 +0000 UTC]

I haven't seen any animals with even remotely similar patterns to a majority of the animals on his chart. 

Brown is one of the most common colors in nature. There are also a lot of animals with more subtle patterns which are not visible at a distance. Particularly large animals. 

Oh my absolutely no variation whatsoever



I'm being blunt. There is no subtlety. There is also no malice.
I think he can improve, but things don't always get improved  unless pointed out.

And also this is not a call out. It's  a comment

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Flishstar In reply to Paleop [2019-04-24 21:01:13 +0000 UTC]

I mean this in the nicest way possible, as I really appreciate you trying to help me improve, but I struggle to see how making every animal completely uniform brown as you have is realistic or reasonable when it's pretty common knowledge that the reason we have so many brown animals is because mammals are color blind. In just about every other group of animals, you see quiet a varied mix of colorations, and with adult dinosaurs typically having no reason to hide like mammals do, having them all be drab brown, particularly when they have giant display structures such as in Ceratopsians or Thyreophorans, is silly. Hell, even in primates, an entirely brown monkey is pretty unusual, and I can only think of a few effected heavily by predation, such as some of the southern baboon species.

I actually recently wrote a paper on the subject of how sexual selection effects dimorphism and aposematism in nature. It's being peer-reviewed right now, but I will probably post it up once that's all taken care of. Long story short, however, Dinosaurs faced very little natural selection as adults for various reasons, and thus sexual selection is going to cause them to be a lot flashier than modern megafauna. Great example is how speciation in Ceratopsians is almost entirely sex-driven, as in dart frogs, rather than driven by predation or resource pressure.

My colorations are all almost entirely based on real-world animals. I take creative liberties at times so as to prevent them from being exact copies because I think that's not very realistic, nor does it look nice, but the animals themselves all have real-world inspirations. I typically take colorations from megafauna and use animals that actually have good eyesight for inspiration on the display colorations on the animals.

Obviously a lot of the older ones are going to be progressively worse. But my most recent few have been based on what is realistically possible for the animals, and based on the animal's niche and evolutionary pressure.

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Paleop In reply to Flishstar [2019-04-24 23:16:31 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for replying

I never stated you should imitate my color schemes or make everything uniform brown. My problem mostly lies with the patterns themselves. 

    I'd say dinosaurs have plenty of reason to hide. You have herbivores that want to remain at the very least hidden from a distance, and carnivores that want the ability to get as close as possible before being noticed.
 Yes, they may be large but there are a lot of large animals with camouflage. Despite their size can still hide. 

    We are also talking about a world in which the most common large animals could likely see in full color. Blues and yellows might not be the best display colors for something the size of a bus. Granted, on smaller dinosaurs that have shorter lifespans, higher breeding rates,  and less surface area to distribute pigments across, brighter colors were likely more common (as they are today with songbirds and small lizards).
the camouflage issue is also why I believe a large majority of small herbivorous dinosaurs were likely green (at least outside of cooler, more temperate climates).

    I'm interested in your findings as to why they faced little natural selection.
Perhaps it could change my argument, or perhaps it could affirm it. 


    I will admit the older pieces in your chart are the main reason I left the comment about the color schemes not feeling realistic.  Even then so, a lot of your animals seem under patterned looking at large lizards and ground dwelling birds. You also do not seem to add any mottled patterning.

     Although to take your carch and alberto for example, why not have the bright colors form a more intricate pattern? With such good eyesight predators shouldn't need large blotches of color to pull off a display. 

There's also the issue of pigments which I will not get into depth with this comment.
But basically bright yellows require pigments found in plants or alternatively in fish.

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Flishstar In reply to Paleop [2019-04-25 00:41:59 +0000 UTC]

I am fully aware of yellow being only obtainable from fish, plants, or feces of herbivores. This is actually why my rex is mostly yellow, to subtly imply it eats shit.

My paper doesn't go so much into why dinosaurs specifically are faced with little natural selection, but basically just a rundown of how natural and sexually selective forces effect the appearance of animals, particularly what causes dimorphism, and we can make a good guess of how they live based on their appearance, or vice-versa. The reason this is relevant, however, is that dinosaurs show very little dimorphism.

The whole reason that naturally selective pressures are lower on dinosaurs can be focused into one main factor, and a few smaller, side ones. The main one is that dinosaurs have far more offspring at once than any mammal of comparable size. This ends up causing a situation where, because there are often juveniles running around as well, carnivores are already pretty inclined to completely avoid hunting adult animals, because there's much better options. Secondly, preservation bias gives us animals from very productive ecosystems, such as rainforests and savannahs, where resource scarcity is essentially a non-issue most of the time. The third reason I go over pretty thoroughly in my paper, but the gist of it is that animals which are typically referred to as "aposematic" actually evolved these colors as sexually selected traits that become secondarily a trait that became a warning coloration. There was actually a study in dart frogs about this, if you were interested.

Finally, you're a bit off about the song birds and reptiles thing. Sexual display colors don't have much to do with size beyond what's within resource-practicality. For example, tropical bird species are typically more colorful than their temperate counterparts, but live much longer, and have fewer young. However, because resource shortages basically don't exist in rainforests and there's plenty of other prey options, the animals have more lee-way on being able to be colorful.

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Flishstar In reply to Kiryu2012 [2017-12-04 16:23:27 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!

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Kiryu2012 In reply to Flishstar [2017-12-04 16:51:44 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome.

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Flishstar In reply to Syfyman2XXX [2017-12-04 16:23:20 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!!!

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Flishstar In reply to Tigon1Monster [2017-12-04 16:23:12 +0000 UTC]

Thank you

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Tigon1Monster In reply to Flishstar [2017-12-04 16:28:51 +0000 UTC]

Your Welcome. Just Curious. Have you heard of Monster High &/or Ever After High?

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Flishstar In reply to javifel [2016-03-30 16:10:03 +0000 UTC]

No problen, always nice to see someone making Dinosaur skeletals.

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Flishstar In reply to ZoPteryx [2014-12-04 15:06:45 +0000 UTC]

Thank you sorry I didn't see this till now

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