SerasValencia In reply to Tzoli [2018-03-11 18:14:51 +0000 UTC]

I did! Sorry for the late reply, my company loaded me up with work. Thanks a lot for sending them to me!

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Tzoli In reply to SerasValencia [2018-03-12 16:06:18 +0000 UTC]

Ahh okay

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SerasValencia In reply to Tzoli [2018-11-22 15:54:24 +0000 UTC]

Hey again! Partially thanks to you I managed to get to more information on the ship designs of the unbuilt Dutch ships. Thought that I would add a rough sumup of what I found out so far with my thanks!

First of all, the Dutch cruiser "De Ruyter" was supposed to be much bigger before the parliament and protesters from the pacifist side of the government shot it down to its real form. Among the designs were >

A somewhat larger variant of the ship, armed with eight 15 cm guns in twin turret. Very reminiscent of the M class of the Kriegsmarine. This turret arangement was considered as 'politically unacceptable'.

Again, larger variant of the ship as a CA with total of six 20 cm guns in twin turrets, two forwards, superfiring. Admirality rejected this design.

At the same time the Dutch navy was seeking designs in German, UK and even italian yards. Their aim was to make a design capable of fending off the big cruisers of the Japanese Navy, until a larger force could be summoned to the indies.

While they were refused by the British, the German shipyards responded positively. Not that this was happening even before building of "De Ruyter". The RNN was given the designs to the German Admiral Hipper Class heavy cruisers. Something that was, according to notes, an almost exact fit for their colonial needs. Along with the three Scharnhorst influenced battlecruisers, the RNN wanted at least three Admiral Hipper class ships to back them up. More interestingly however... Three more ships of a modified Admiral Hipper class were also considered.

The interesting thing is, that there were drawn plans for a Hipper Design armed with four tripple 15 cm turrets and two aircraft catapults, which could be seen as the Dutch Mogami class. It would also explain why the Germans worked on the plans which were to be used with Lutzow and Seydlitz until they were re-ordered as heavy cruisers.

The plan was essentially for the three BCs to form the main heavy units and response force with the regular Hippers, while the scout Hippers with two catapults and Dutch DD forces along with some elder Light Cruisers would perform patrol, scout and skirmish missions to locate and harass the IJN in their campaing against the Dutch East Indies.

As for the information, I am not trying to get more details on it. I contacted the Dutch Navy Archives in hopes of being allowed access to the information. Alongside that, I have tried to send a few emails to Peruvian navy in hopes of being able to make a visit to Ex-Dutch De Zeven Provinciën-class cruisers and confirm few things for myself. Though their original plans in the Dutch Archives could probably easily reveal how much influence was taken from the Germans. About the battlecruisers themselves, most information is aviable on this webpage ( www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Special… ) though I did find that the Dutch considered ordering few of the above mentioned ships in Italian Yards, with the OTO yard providing their own version for several of their proposals, namely the battlecruisers themselves and the Kijkduin class light cruisers.

Would be quite interesting to see line drawings for these. I tried to find ones for Hippers with tripple 15 cm guns and two catapults, but sadly I didn't find anything. Much the same for the De Ruyter with 4 twin turrets and the original version of the Kijkduins and Eendracht. Hopefully the Archives will contain more information.

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Tzoli In reply to SerasValencia [2018-11-23 09:55:19 +0000 UTC]

I have some knowledge of the Dutch heavy cruiser from the early 1930's but only vague info as my friend mentioned it and by his description it would look similar to the 1074 class just in a smaller scale, he even has a book about them but I yet to have in touch with him (He is a sailor so not easy to communicate)

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SerasValencia In reply to Tzoli [2018-11-23 16:25:49 +0000 UTC]

Thanks a lot for the swift answer. The one which he talked about might be one of the preliminary design studies for De Ruyter. The works 'Warship Profile #40' and Willigenburg's "Dutch Warships of World War II" mentioned a cruiser armed with 20cm guns. I am worried however, that this could have been only feasibility/mission/cost studies which didn't lead to any designs. And don't worry about it! (I have fair amount of friends within the navy as well and I might return to Navy as well within several years.) Just poke me when you will come by the info. I will try to do the same after my visit to archives of the Koninklijke Marine. 

Though, my accursed curiosity brings me to the following question. Do you have any spare spots for ship line drawings you are working on? If you had nothing to do, I would be more than happy to ask for some dutch ship line drawings.

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Tzoli In reply to SerasValencia [2018-11-24 08:48:12 +0000 UTC]

I'm currently doing some of the Montana preliminaries but if you can send some sketches but more importantly data I can have a look at them

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SerasValencia In reply to Tzoli [2018-02-09 14:41:25 +0000 UTC]

You are welcome~ keep up the good work!

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