woodgrave In reply to Cin-Nicole [2010-07-10 07:00:01 +0000 UTC]

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woodgrave In reply to Old-PaleoClipper [2010-07-10 00:25:55 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the kind words. I'll still be around, just not as much.

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Old-PaleoClipper In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-10 02:54:45 +0000 UTC]

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woodgrave In reply to Cin-Nicole [2010-07-08 22:19:31 +0000 UTC]

You're very welcome When I found that eBook library, I felt like a kid in a candy store

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Cin-Nicole In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-08 23:08:37 +0000 UTC]

Haha, I can see why!

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woodgrave In reply to Cin-Nicole [2010-07-08 19:47:53 +0000 UTC]

Hi there. Yeah, I love the Buddhist philosophy and have been studying Theravada for the most part. Some of the other philosophies throw in some supernatural, which really turns me off. Theravada still incorporates rebirth, but unlike with religions, it's ok to pick and choose with Buddhism, so I just ignore the rebirth stuff and concentrate on the path and the truths. I try to live a good life here rather than prepare for a later life hehe. I have also become a big fan of meditation.

I don't remember hearing Hanh's name. Why do you ask?

Have you checked out BuddhaNet? [link] That's an awesome resource with a free eBook library.

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Cin-Nicole In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-08 21:00:28 +0000 UTC]

That's really fantastic. I am not too familiar with Theravada, but if you are a big fan of meditation, then I'd recommend looking into Zen. Meditation is the primary focus of Zen Buddhism. I like meditation as well. It's relaxing, yet challenging at times. This may sound strange, but I view rebirth in the sense that...when I die, my body will provide nutrients for life to grow from me. I agree with living a good life here. I like that the thought of an afterlife is irrelevent in Buddhism. I'm not sure if you've heard this before, but it's a Zen proverb I like: A samurai once asked Zen Master Hakuin where he would go after he died. Hakuin answered ‘How am I supposed to know?’ ‘How do you not know? You’re a Zen master!’ exclaimed the samurai. ‘Yes, but not a dead one,’ Hakuin answered.

I find Hanh's books to be exceedingly peaceful, simple, yet profound. They are the reason I began to study Zen. He was actually nominated for the Noble Peace Prize by Martin Luther King Jr. for his peace efforts to stop the Vietnam War.

No, I haven't. I'm going to check it out now. Thank you for the suggestion!

I'm curious, how is it that you discovered Buddhism?

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woodgrave In reply to Cin-Nicole [2010-07-08 23:17:00 +0000 UTC]

I had looked into Zen in the beginning but I don't quite remember why I chose Theravada over it now. I had read a lot about several different versions of Buddhism and they all kind of run together in my memory now hehe. I do remember strongly considering Zen, and honestly, I should probably expand my horizons in this area a bit anyway.

Meditation IS challenging! It's strange how trying to think of nothing can be so difficult lol. I've only gotten serious about it in the past month or two, so I'm still a newb and not terribly disciplined with it yet. But when I DO have a few successful minutes, I can really feel it. That is a lot of why I was drawn to Buddhism; it's all real. Well, aside from the reincarnation stuff hehe.

I was a Christian for many years, mostly casual, but there were periods of my life that I diligently sought the Christian god. In end I came to the conclusion that there are no gods and I wanted nothing to do with anything that incorporated the supernatural after that. So Buddhism was perfect for me; it's a beautiful philosophy that is grounded in truth, and things like meditation work on a scientific level that we can see and understand. No hocus-pocus.

I completely understand and agree about your concept of rebirth. I think this planet, and everything on it, is related in some way. We're born, we affect our world, then we die and become other parts of the world. It's the cycle of life that has spanned eons.

I've never heard that proverb before but I love it! That's a keeper, thanks.

About actually discovering Buddhism... I had always been aware of it, but I was concentrating on getting my ticket into the Christian heaven for most of my adult life. Christianity, like most religions, provides structure and guidance. So when I left Christianity, I felt a little lost. I knew I wasn't interested in any religions whatsoever, but I wanted find new structure and guidance. So I began looking into Buddhism to see if it was what I was looking for. That was two years ago and I found exactly what I wanted in Theravada.

When one reads the bible, it is natural for one to question its morality. Especially when reading about the Christian god drowning every living thing on the planet, condoning slavery, justifying the murder of those who strike their parent or simply have a different sexual preference, etc. By contrast, however, I found the Dhammapada and the general Buddhist philosophy to be unequivocally sincere and beneficial to the practicer and even to those around them. I remember getting teary-eyed, thinking how wonderful it was that I had found exactly what I was looking for after being misled all those years in Christianity. I scoured the internet, hungry for information, and eventually I found BuddhaNet, and the rest is history.

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Cin-Nicole In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-09 00:39:32 +0000 UTC]

Ah, I see. I read up on a few as well, and I found Zen to be my favourite, most likely because of its focus on meditation. I can't remember all of the differences currently either though. Speaking of meditation, do you own a meditation cushion? I have wanted to purchase one, but nice ones can be quite expensive!

Haha, I know, right! Sometimes, as soon as you think you're not thinking of anything, you begin to think of how you aren't thinking! That is definitely true. I'm not very good at it either, but any few minutes is incredible. I agree with you. Buddhism is real, and the Buddha is not considered a god or worshipped in any way. I read that at a monastery, the monks will gesture to the Buddha on the altar and say, "that's you up there. When you bow, you are bowing to yourself."

That's very interesting. There are many people I know, myself included, who had originally sought to be a Christian. My father is agnostic, and I was raised to have an open mind. I really tried to believe in the Christian god during a very tough time in my life, but I simply could not do it. It was illogical, yet they always have an answer for you. I finally began researching religion, and I realized how false it was. Along the way, I found solace in Buddhism.

Yes! I completely agree! That's why I think of rebirth in that sense.

I'm really glad you liked it so much! It's very wise.

Haha, I see! I can understand why you searched for something that fit you. Choosing to leave Christianity is tough, especially considering its strong hold on the USA. People have a tendency to want you to believe what they believe, otherwise, you're wrong and/or going to hell. I found what I wanted in Buddhism as well, especially because I don't believe one needs to be religious in order to be spiritual. I love our planet, and I believe, as you mentioned earlier, that everything is connected.

Oh, I know. I'm not sure why they consider the Christian god to be all-loving, yet he murdered, destroyed, instructed Moses and his followeres to rape all of the women and kill all of the men worshipping the golden calf, etc. I completely agree with you regarding your description of Buddhism. It's a peaceful religion that benefits everyone and everything. I also truly admire Buddhism's respect for science as well. The Dalai Lama has said that if science disproves anything in Buddhism, then Buddhism must change. Haha, I did the same thing. I remember searching and reading through so many articles, and I read about suggested books, which is how I discovered Thich Nhat Hanh. Peace is Every Step was the first book I read of his, and I highly recommend it. It gave me such a positive outlook on things.

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woodgrave In reply to Cin-Nicole [2010-07-09 01:23:38 +0000 UTC]

No, I don't have a cushion. I usually just sit in whatever comfy chair is available. I've started doing it here and there throughout the day now, just whenever I feel like a quick recharge. I also meditate for a few minutes while lying in bed just before going to sleep. I find it helps as I am somewhat of an insomniac. I'm going to go ahead and check out Zen. I'm kind of excited since it focuses on meditation.

Whenever I start to feel good during meditation, I begin thinking about how I'm feeling good and that causes me to lose my concentration lol. It's like looking at the sun, you have to just get a sense of the good feeling but not concentrate on it. That's cool about the monks and the Buddha on the alter. I like that way of thinking.

You're very lucky having grown up in an open-minded home. Unfortunately my mother has always been a Christian and basically indoctrinated me as I grew up. When I was about 12, we attended a non-denominational church where people would throw their hands up, speak in tongues and dance in the aisles. Later she decided that wasn't the way and we moved on to another church. Then another, and another. I grew up not really considering the possibility that there was no god. A couple of years ago, I met an extremely well-read, intelligent atheist who was very polite and considerate when we debated. I'm a logical guy (I majored in mathematics and had originally planned to teach college math before getting into computers), and he really got me thinking. Once I began considering that maybe Christianity was just as false as all the other religions, everything began to fall into place. I haven't looked back since.

I honestly believe Buddhism is much more spiritual than any religion I know of. And you are so right about people wanting you to believe that they believe. That's why our money says, "In God We Trust", it's why kids have to say, "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance, it's why everyone swears on a Christian bible in court, and it's why Christians get a defensive look on their face when you inform them you do not believe in their god. It's sad. But we are progressing much more quickly these days. The information technology age initiated the beginning of the end for organized religion, I think. We have a long way to go and it probably won't be in our lifetime, but one day the religious will be the minority.

Along the lines of what you said about the Dalai Lama, this may be my favorite quote from the Buddha: "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." This, to me, shows that the Buddha was wiser and more sincere than Jesus was (I'll accept Jesus lived as a man, but not the son of god). The Buddha was so humble and cared about his people so much that he told them not to even take his word for things, but to always seek the truth and never go against their own logic. How awesome is that for a teacher?

I'm definitely going to check out that book. Thanks for recommending it These days, I could use a little help with my outlook.

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Cin-Nicole In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-09 03:56:36 +0000 UTC]

That works too! I do the same, or I sit on my yoga mat. That's wonderful that you practice meditation through the day as well. That is one of the ideas that I read in the book I recommended to you. I'm sure you'd really enjoy it! I sometimes have trouble sleeping too, but I think it's because I feel like I'm missing something whenever I fall asleep. I hope you find Zen interesting. Let me know what you think of it!

Haha, I know what you mean. You have to simply let it be. Through its simplicity, it's difficult. I'm glad you liked that quote. It is a good way of thinking. I see it as, in Zen anyway, that there is a Buddha inside all of us.

That must've been terrifying! Those churches scare me! I was never babtized or forced to attend church. I've always questioned religion...well...everything around me really. I think it is great that you were able to consider other possibilities after that debate, especially considering so many people who are caught up in their religion cannot do it.

Yeah... I'm not sure if this is still true, but an atheist friend of mine once told me that if you do not swear on a Christian Bible in court, then you will not be tried. It's discrimination. The funny thing is... They don't get mad at you if you don't believe in someone else's god, but if you don't believe in theirs, it's the end of the world. Have you ever heard of George Carlin? He is my favourite comedian. He was highly intelligent and has hilarious skits regarding religion and America. These two are some of my favourites: [link] and [link]

Yes, that is a wonderful quote! The Buddha was such a wise man. I believe that Jesus/Christianity promotes blind acceptance. I find it odd that a god supposedly created man with logic and reasoning, yet declares free-thinking to be evil. (Yes, I have heard Christians say that.)

You're very welcome! I hope that you enjoy it! Let me know what you think!

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woodgrave In reply to Cin-Nicole [2010-07-09 04:49:08 +0000 UTC]

That's one of the great things about meditation, you can do it pretty much any time. I have my own office, so if I ever get stressed out at work, I just close the door and sneak in a 5 or 10 minute meditation. I wish I had learned about this stuff a long time ago. And I know what you mean about being afraid you're missing something. That was my problem for years. Nowadays it's more like if I'm not dead tired, I feel like I should be up doing something. It just throws me out of whack. But the meditation is helping and I'm hopeful that the more proficient I get with it, the easier it will be to fall asleep. I'm sure I will love Zen. Like I said, I strongly considered it in the beginning, and now that I have learned a lot and have a better understanding of Buddhism in general, I don't think I'll be turned off by any aspects of Zen. I'm definitely going to read that book you recommended.

There is most definitely a Buddha in all of us, I think. Didn't Buddha even say that everyone has the potential to be a Buddha? I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that.

Yeah, those were some strange times during my church years when I was young. I wasn't so much scared as I was uncomfortable. I didn't understand why everyone was getting struck by the holy spirit and speaking in tongues and running around like lunatics while I just watched and didn't feel anything. I had heard that children were god's favorites, and that made it even more confusing. Shouldn't his favorites have an idea of what is going on and maybe feel something too? But I look back today and chalk it up to knowledge and experience.

I LOVE George Carlin. I remember watching The George Carlin Show. I've seen those vids but will most likely watch them again. I love his religion stand up routines and they never get old.

Exactly! He supposedly gave us minds to think and free will, then told us to not think and do as he says. People bind themselves in the chains of religion and punish themselves for being human. How in the world did it come to this?

I will.

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Cin-Nicole In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-09 20:21:47 +0000 UTC]

Yep, it's wonderful! Haha, I know what you mean about wanting to do something. I'd rather be doing something than sleeping, but, ironically, I'd rather stay in bed and sleep in the morning! I'm sure it will increasingly help with practice. I hope you enjoy the book as much as I did! He's a fantastic author!

I think he may have. I wouldn't doubt it.

Yeah, it must've been awkward. I think those people are crazy. The funny thing is, if they weren't in a church, those people would be admitted into an insane asylum.

Yes! I know, right! He was so intelligent! I've watched his routines and debates on tv shows, etc. I can rewatch them over and over.

I know! It's awful! I read this quote before, "religion can never reform mankind because religion is slavery."

The only thing that upsets me is people's generalization and negative connotations associated with the word 'religion'. I think it's because the most dominant religions in the world are theistic. I tend to generalize at times as well. I don't think it is fair for religions, such as Buddhism.

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woodgrave In reply to Cin-Nicole [2010-07-09 20:34:55 +0000 UTC]

You reminded me of something Christopher Hitchens said. Basically he said if only one person believed in god, we would think them insane. But since billions believe, it's perfectly acceptable. David Stephens said, "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if no one believes it." I love that quote.

I think much of the negative connotation is with the theistic religions since you have many people doing horrible things in the name of their god. Fortunately, we ain't got one of those hehe.

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Cin-Nicole In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-10 02:39:47 +0000 UTC]

That is very true. I think I've read those quotes somewhere. I like them a lot as well.

Yes, plus, people only hear about those kind of religions. The others mind their own business, so they never get much publicity. Definitely! I'd rather be a part of a peaceful religion opposed to one that is continuously at war with others that believe in something slightly different, for example, the Jewish and Muslim people.

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woodgrave In reply to Cin-Nicole [2010-07-10 17:59:45 +0000 UTC]

That's a good point. Everyone knows about Christianity because everyone has had a Christian attempt to proselytize them at some point in their life. "Jesus save me from your followers." hehe Buddhism is not nearly as popular and is often misunderstood, I think, because Buddhists aren't out recruiting members and preaching their beliefs.

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Cin-Nicole In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-16 01:03:02 +0000 UTC]

Exactly. Buddhism actually teaches to live and let live. Tolerance is so important. It's a shame that Christianity doesn't teach it.

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woodgrave In reply to ConflictEXE [2010-07-08 08:24:04 +0000 UTC]

So your work on Anti-Theists is atheistic, correct?

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ConflictEXE In reply to woodgrave [2010-07-08 10:38:13 +0000 UTC]

Aye, quite so sir.

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woodgrave In reply to terrahachi [2010-07-08 00:42:08 +0000 UTC]

Very true.

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woodgrave In reply to Agent6-7 [2010-06-15 16:30:57 +0000 UTC]

Awesome, bro. Can't wait to see it.

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Agent6-7 In reply to woodgrave [2010-06-19 17:24:46 +0000 UTC]

It's done

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woodgrave In reply to Agent6-7 [2010-06-15 05:46:42 +0000 UTC]

Yep. I just got back tonight and have heard quite a bit about that piece.

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Agent6-7 In reply to woodgrave [2010-06-15 09:24:19 +0000 UTC]

Where were you dude!? XD

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woodgrave In reply to Agent6-7 [2010-06-15 09:45:32 +0000 UTC]

Just been really busy with work and life in general lately. I'll be around a little more often now though.

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BeautifullyChaotic In reply to Agent6-7 [2010-06-08 12:50:01 +0000 UTC]

I'm so happy you think the same as I do. I hope it will be removed. Its purely racist.

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Agent6-7 In reply to BeautifullyChaotic [2010-06-08 13:52:38 +0000 UTC]

And people will see our group in a more negative way

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woodgrave In reply to LeahDanielle [2010-06-15 05:50:46 +0000 UTC]

It's not so interesting. Doesn't Harry Potter have a big following? Last time I checked, he was fictional just like the Christian god. Many people spend a lot of time thinking about the non existent Twilight characters as well. Do you not spend any time thinking about anyone or anything that does not exist? I think that would make for a boring life, don't you?

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woodgrave In reply to Nurgal [2010-06-15 05:53:22 +0000 UTC]

Everything is ok, just been really busy lately. Didn't mean to abandon you guys.

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woodgrave In reply to Mysterieux936 [2010-06-15 05:54:14 +0000 UTC]

Just been busier than normal lately, bro. I'll be around more often now.

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woodgrave In reply to DaGrox94 [2010-06-15 05:58:38 +0000 UTC]

If only everyone could be as rational as a 12 year old. Kudos to you for getting out early. I held out till I was 35...

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