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Ashok0 In reply to prindacerk [2013-04-04 03:58:20 +0000 UTC]

I think the intent of the writers was that the events that lead up to 2167 can be rewritten, but the actual events IN 2167 (which propagated the re-write) must remain constant. Etta isn't a resistance fighter, Walter never visits the shipping yard, etc. but it doesn't matter because the universe will "close the loop" by translocating Walter and Michael directly to 2167.

Regarding Red Peter, he is a paradox and his very existence lead to the creation of the Bridge and the erasure of Henry. This led to Etta's birth, and her martyrdom led to the Fringe team preventing the entire Observer War --- which ironically generates a history not too dissimilar from the pre-Season 1 timeline sans an Observer re-write.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to Ashok0 [2013-04-04 18:25:14 +0000 UTC]

@prindacerk:
I agree with you that the "Walter-less" timeline segment is completely altered. Etta never becomes a resistance fighter because there is no Observer invasion to resist against. I didn't write that out because technically it's never shown or stated, but I think it can be assumed.

As for Peter's paradoxical nature; he's not supposed to exist, but Olivia manifests him back into existence using Cortexiphan, which gives her psychic universe-manipulating abilities.

@Ashok0:
I specifically made the decision to make the simplest timeline(s) comprised only of details stated on the show. I think your theory is totally legitimate, but I didn't want to make any assumptions like that.

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prindacerk In reply to anderssondavid1 [2013-04-09 00:22:42 +0000 UTC]

@anderssondavid1: But there's a lot of confusions involved as well. From your timeline breakdown, the machine was sent to the Cretaceuous period. But by whom? And why? In the original timeline, there was no need for it. We only see the machine get sent back in time by Walter and others in 2026 timeline. So the machine becomes a paradox as well (but doesn't get erased).

Also, how did the machine work without Peter? How did Walternate trigger it? It was never explained.

Finally, if the Observers wanted to restore the timeline back to the original, wouldn't they have simply reset the timeline by stopping September from interrupting Walternate? That would have restored everything as it should be. Instead they go through so much trouble causing battle between two universes that lead to destruction of many lives. Like September said, by saving Peter, he caused a ripple effect that ended with the death of the child of the Musician. And by distracting Walternate, he caused an even bigger ripple effect that was not fixed.

There was also the issue of the child. The observers were concerned about the birth of Henry who was not supposed to exist (they never explained why one child would have that much effect in the timeline). But because of the travelling between universes, Lincoln from Blue Universe ended up with Red Olivia. Was that meant to happen? It wouldn't have happened without Peter being there (which made Lincoln realize he had no chance with Blue Olivia). And the child born for them (Trevor) is also someone who wasn't supposed to exist (like Henry).

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anderssondavid1 In reply to prindacerk [2013-04-09 15:58:47 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I wish that they had explained the details of the Machine better. There's a lot that's unsaid, and I only wanted to incorporate facts that were stated on the show.

In Season 3 Walter keeps repeating that he's sure the Machine was built by William Bell, but Bell denies designing it.

My theory is that William Bell did design the machine in an alternate future. Why? I don't know. But he is a mad scientist, so maybe he didn't need a reason. He always does things because he can.
I didn't include that on the timeline because it's never explicitly stated on the show.

Just like Walter will appear in 2167 from a defunct timeline, the Machine appears in the Cretaceous from a defunct future where it was built by Bell. Arguably the Machine still needs to be built on the new timeline to prevent a causal paradox, but we never see what happens so who knows how things play out.

As for how the machine worked without Peter: Walter says in Season 4 that the Machine activated itself and created the bridge for no reason at all. Walternate didn't turn it on. While never directly stated, I think the answer is just that Peter's psychic link to the machine transcends timelines. They are quantum entangled (however the show wants to define that).

I think the issue with Henry is just that he would cause further conflict between the universes. The war began over the kidnapping of a child. It's safe to say that putting this new child between the two universes won't change things.

Finally, I don't know why September never prevented his initial mistake. That's an issue with the show I think.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to jgottschall [2013-03-21 07:01:21 +0000 UTC]

Hmm, I'd always assumed that the trials being referenced in that episode were from 1981.

But I decided to rewatch it, and they definitely say that the trials were from 25 years earlier, meaning they ended in 1986-ish.

So you're right! I wrongly assumed that Olivia never completed the trials because Walter never restarted them, but in fact it's because Peter didn't exist to keep her around.

I'll be uploading ed.3 tomorrow. I have a few more updates I need to add anyway. Thanks for the feedback and help!

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jgottschall In reply to anderssondavid1 [2013-03-21 09:48:04 +0000 UTC]

Early in 404 (Subject 9) Olivia/Astrid go to MD to talk to Nina about the trials. I want to say she was in the trials until she was 9 then ran away. So she didn't "finish". If she was born in late 70s, then she ran away in late 80's and they continued a few years after (according to Walter/Bell). It sounds like she did cause the fire when she was 3-4 like the original blue TL (S1-S3)

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anderssondavid1 In reply to jgottschall [2013-03-22 07:21:06 +0000 UTC]

Yes I think that's exactly right. Walter or Nina (I forget which at the moment) tell Olivia that she ran away, which I assume is a variation of the events of "Subject 13" when Olivia ran away and Peter convinced her to trust Walter and continue her life as usual.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to JJcanvas [2013-03-02 05:41:24 +0000 UTC]

Thanks a lot!

The reason for the split at the bottom of the timeline is because I was implying that both futures were possible outcomes at that moment.
The Evil Observer future must be a possible future in order for the invasion to have ever happened. However, the altered Empathic Observer future is also possible, and by solidifying it the timeline without the invasion is what happens (this is also why the timeline without the Observer Invasion does not connect to the Evil Observer future).

It's a lot like the split that occurs when Peter steps into the machine. Two possible futures play out, but ultimately one must be chosen over the other.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to bellaherna [2013-01-31 00:00:07 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!
Although, I'm kind of confused about what you're asking.
Most of what I have written on the first timeline (the far left one) is taken from The End of All Things or the last three episodes of Season 5.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to elsbethy [2013-01-30 00:29:34 +0000 UTC]

Thanks a lot! Glad you like it.

I've been getting a lot of questions about that section of the "original" timeline. I'm basing this off of what September tells Peter in Season 4 "The End of All Things":

"[Your son] was born to the wrong Olivia Dunham...
[Now referring to Our Olivia] She is the one... the Olivia Dunham from whom your shared future was meant to spring. This must be, and everything will be as it was intended."

The way I interpreted that dialogue was that on the original timeline Peter and Olivia were meant to meet under different circumstances (the universes would not go to war if Walter hadn't used a dangerous method to cross over or kidnapped Peter) and have a child together.

I took some liberty with how exactly they met, but since September is both aware of and interested in the Alternate Universe, it stands to reason that the Observers are familiar with it in some way. I assume the universes were always meant to meet under peaceful circumstances.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to ArrogantJack [2013-01-28 19:52:58 +0000 UTC]

To be honest...I've been assembling the data for this infographic since I watched the pilot. I came to the show late and knew that it was one of those "mind bendy" shows. I've been planning from the beginning to make an infographic for Fringe one day, but had no idea how complex it would actually get. Every season I had to make major modifications to the structure (and cut out a bunch of information that became unnecessary to telling the overall story).

Depending on what kind of person you are I guess that story is either inspiring or really depressing.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to WindexCanada [2013-01-27 22:58:11 +0000 UTC]

In Season 4 the episode "The End of All Things". September tells Peter this:

"[Your son] was born to the wrong Olivia Dunham...
[Now referring to Our Olivia] She is the one... the Olivia Dunham from whom your shared future was meant to spring. This must be, and everything will be as it was intended."

September tells Peter that he was meant to have a child with the Olivia from our universe.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to peghed [2013-01-28 08:18:24 +0000 UTC]

My mistake, after checking again it was the FIFTH Sam Weiss who wrote the First People. The others spent their lives searching for the manuscripts. I may upload a revised version of this poster. I've been noticing a few details like this that I need to correct.

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anderssondavid1 In reply to Fringenos [2013-01-26 11:59:14 +0000 UTC]

Oh dang. You're right. I didn't even fact-check that date because I assumed I knew it by heart. Well, that's going to bother me forever.

But hey, thanks for the feedback and appreciation!

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