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Arminius1871 — Republic German Austria 1918
#österreich #1918 #austria #deutsch #deutsches #deutschland #empire #germain #german #germany #map #reich #saint #war #world
Published: 2014-09-20 19:37:08 +0000 UTC; Views: 7582; Favourites: 48; Downloads: 55
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Wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic…
After the central powers lost the first world war, the austrian deputies decided to create the new republic
of German Austria, a state that would contain all german-speaking regions of Austria-Hungary close to the
heartland of the german Austria.
They did also decide in a law, that it shall be united with the German Empire as soon as possible,
only two deputies voted no, the rest yes.
But the victorious allied powers decided not to accept the free will of the Austrians. In the treaty of Saint Germain
they were forced to give huge chunks of german regions to new constructed states, the unification with the rest
of the Germans was forbidden, too, tho referendums in the whole country clearly showed, they wanted to be
Germans in a new democratic Germany.
The allied powers however had no interest in right and freedom, but to damage the two german states as much
as possible.
This map shows how it would´ve looked like.
Notice:
This map shall not offend anyone, the text neither, it´s surely not against any people of these states,
it´s against the governments of that time in those countries.
Related content
Comments: 106
1850 75% of the residents were Germans. Then a magyarifying process started and 1890 only 60% were Germans.
1919 when Czechoslovakia was formed there were 36% Germans. And after the world war it became below 1%.
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But were they ethnic germans or just german-speaking?
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Ethnic Germans. I have a good overview for you:
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Thanks a lot. Really interesting stuff. Were germans from Pressburg expelled after WW1 or did they leave on their own accord? (P.D. Sorry if I'm bothering you with my bullshit, by the way xD)
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It´s all fine you can ask as much as u want^^
There was no official expulsion like after 1945, but the discrimination began and many left on their own or were bullied so long until they left. In some cases they were forced tho. For example the Germans from Marburg which was in the newly formed Yugoslavia (later Slovenia), they had no choice and many others.
But don´t worry it´s not like I would hate thos nations or people today, I only hate the persons that did it back then. Especially as a German I think it´s pathetic to hate people for a past, where they weren´t even born.
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Great work on the map! I was wondering if you had a 'clean' version with just the map itself, no text or effects, and maybe one with a terrain overlay.
I'm working on a listing of all the cities, towns, and villages in Teschen, Sudetenland, and Deutsch-Böhmen, so something like that would be very helpful (and I'd share the file with you if you'd like).
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Thanks man!
Ah I had no topographic map sadly, this is the reference:
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsch%…
www.preussische-allgemeine.de/…
www.mygeo.info/landkarten/tsch…
german-history.deviantart.com/…
I hope I could help u a little with that links?
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Richtig gut gemacht, mit Sudetenland und Süd-Tirol. Es würde noch schöner sein wenn Österreich ein Hafen bekommt, z.B Triest. Aber das war natürlich ganz unrealistisch weil Triest damals nur ein kleine Deutschsprachige Minderheit hat.
Welche Schriftart haben Sie aber verwendet? Sieht wirklich elegant aus!
Liebe Grüße aus den Niederlanden.
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Vielen Dank für den netten Kommentar!
Das stimmt, Österreich hätte mehr Gebiete verdient, aber wenn sie zumindest
die deutschsprachigen bekommen hätten, wäre es gerecht gewesen.
Mh ich glaube die Schriftart heißt "Edwardian Script", ich finde sie auch sehr edel^^
Schöne Grüße aus dem verschneiten Bayern
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Vielleich das es in Süd-Tirol noch einmal ein Volksabstimmung gibt, wie die Schotten im letzten Jahr... Wenn zum Beispiel Katalonien es schafft unabhängig zu werden von Spanien sehe ich auch ( trotzdem kleine) Chancen für die Süd-Tiroler wieder bei Österreich zu gehören. Die andere Gebiete sind natürlich für immer verloren gegangen. Unglaublich schade, aber es ist nicht anders. Wir können nur noch hoffen auf Süd-Tirol.
Ich habe es gefunden, vielen Dank. Dies kann ich absolut noch verwenden.
Hier (an die Grenze mit Nordrhein-Westfalen) gab es nur wenig Schnee, leider.
Schöne Grüße!
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Ich bin ja sowieso froh, dass Südtirol nicht so zerstört wurde wie unsere Ostgebiete,
wenigstens gibt es dort noch Deutsche :/
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I wouldn't say they had no interesting in rights and freedom so much as because it was Austria who they had recently fought and she wanted to merge with German which would strengthen it that they were aginst it, not that it was a valid reason or correct to stop it or anything but looking at it from the victors perspective I can see why they didn't allow it although it's not what I would have done in their position.
I also wouldn't have forced the Sudeten's to live under a different nation against their will, anyone with a brain should have know that the nationalism on both sides that resulted form it would only have lead to trouble. The Entent really fucked up with many of it's decisions, worse they made a lot of them because of pressure from American President Woodrow Wilson.
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I understand why they did it, I don´t understand why they complain then,
that Hitler could rise, when they made the situation for that rise XD
Well many Germans, especially the democrats hoped 1918 that Wilson will do what he said in the 14 points declaration.
A war without winners and fair ethnical borders with referendums. At the end he did nothing of that and allowed France
to humiliate and disintegrate the whole german nation, with nearly no referendums. And in nearly all parts where they made
referendums, even where not a german majority lived, the people voted for Germany (like in Masuria where mostly Poles live).
Austria did a referendum, too, which the allied did not accept, I think in the region of Salzburg, 99.7% voted for the unification
with Germany. Also the rest of Austria voted in a same way. So the wish to be one nation was destroyed by hate and arrogance.
And now the Austrians think they´re no Germans anymore suddenly, cause in modern times patriotism isn´t important for the people
anymore.
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Don't take it as criticism, but I just don't think that sudetenland should ever belong to Germany or Austria. It was always the part of Bohemia kingdom in which mostly lived Germans, but historicaly it was always part of czech lands. But it's true that what Beneš and a lots of Czechs did to Germans after world war II is just basically war crime. We basically send 350 000 Germans to "working camps" (which were just like concentration camps) and 24 000 - 40 000 of them were killed and 100 000 were missing. Just horrible... What is even more horrible is that, even today in our schools during History lessons, we don't talk about these things, not that our teachers are trying to hide the truth, but they just don't talk about it and they skip it.
I still wish that we Czechs would create with Austria after Great war some kind of federation... A lots of Czechs would probably agreed with that, because till 1917 we just wanted autonomous territory and lots of Czechs disagree with T. G. Masaryk during the Great war.
But what bothers me till today is the assassination of the Franz Ferdinand d'Este, because he was really about to form a new federal state, which would be (at least from my view) a lot stronger state than Great Britain. And yet some Serbs think that Gavrilo Princip is national hero...
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Hey my friend no problem, when someone is talking and criticizing objectivly,
all is fine
And I thank you a lot for your respect and that you see it as what it was.
I didn´t make this map to offend Czechs or anyone.
I would say, I had no problem with Czechoslovakia, if the Germans were treaten equally,
but it seems there was a big desire among them to join Germany. As some Sudetengermans
told me, it was because Czechs looked down on them 80-90 years ago (not today).
If they would´ve become a real second Switzerland there wouldn´t have been a problem.
But it was the time of nationalism. Also the Germans were mad, and did awful crimes,
also in the czechish lands. And I´m sorry for this, too.
My friend we don´t want the Sudetenland back, today we want friendship and respect
for those who lost their homes. Not more.
This maps I do, it doesn´t mean anything, it´s just entertainment^^
I have been to praha, Budweis (budowicze?) and Usti nad Labem. All were very friendly
and Praha is probably one of the most cities in the world **
I can always respect a good patriot
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Yes I know you didn't want to offend any Czechs. I was just telling my opinion of whole German-Czech relationship! I definitelly didn't want to accuse you from anything. 
I really hope that one day all Czechs will realize, what we did wrong after World War II, it's true that more and more Czechs realizes this, but you know there are still a lots of people, who would told you that we Czechs were always just a victims.
Oh yes Praha is really beautiful I find myself very lucky that I was born here and also that I live here. I don't think that I was ever in Budweis (České Budějovice), but as a kid used to go on a kindercamp near the city (countryside). The nature is pretty nice there.
In future I'd love to travel across the Germany, do you have any tips for a nice places to go?
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There was a guy here on DA from the Czech Rep. he thought it´s great and was necessary
that the Germans die and are expelled he has no compassion for any of them, and then he
raged, blocked me and acts so childish XD
I have ancestors from the Sudetenland. Well maybe some Czechs fear, we want something
from them back and that´s why they don´t wanna see that black time. But noone wants
something from you, it´s all fine no worries XD
But only because there is one ass, I don´t dislike the whole country of course. And I understand
you wanted your nation. I just think we shouldn´t forget the good sides, german history and czechish history
is unthinkable without the other one, since we were members of the same Reich, even when it was no real nation
for so many centuries.
And often bohemian soldiers helped against the threat at the borders, against Turks or Frenchs XD
I will surely visit Czechia again, there is a castle from Karl IV, I always wanted to see it.
Mh if you visit Germany, I can recommend you definitly Bavaria with Munich, and Neuschwanstein,
or Dresden in Saxony ** If u love culture, if you are more a party man, go to Berlin XD
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You will be quite busy if you decide to visit every castle establisehd by Karel IV.
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Lol I can´t visit all of course, just the most important^^
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Ive been there yesterday. :-D
If you get good weather, i recomend this spot for best view: mapy.cz/turisticka?mereni-vzda…
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WTF it´s so close to Praha? I thought it´s far away XD
Meh, and u didn´t invite me, shame you! XD
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Yep, its nice short bike trip from Prague. Karel certainly didnt wat it to be too far from his residence. Frankly speaking, with distances within Bohemia, even Praha - Liberec(Reichenberg) - Praha makes nice bike trip:-D
I had better companion than male Germanic nationalist :-P
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So better take a czech nationalist? Even tho I don´t consider me a nationalist
in the sense most of society uses this word. So you should be careful using this
word for a German, I´m not sure if this is positive or negative in Czechia, but here
it´s closer to Neonazi, than to right-conservative Patriot.
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:-D Female..
We have two words for it - they are synonymous, but most people dont realize it - one "foreign" is nacionalista, and the other is "národovec", just like we have both patriot and vlastenec. Moreover, in czech the distinction is not strong. I myself cannot decide in which group do i fit. Public has not yet been brainwashed to regard it as bad thing. With nazis a tent to emphasize they were socialists to link them with commies.
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Yep just said, in Germany it has usually a negative sense.
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Yeah I think I read some of his posts. Well actually I have some ancestors (from mother side) also from Sudetenland, they lived near Olomouc (Olmütz).
Exactly, I always get a little upset when some Czech tell me, that Germans only tried to dominate us or something like this. Because it wasn't always like this. Germans gave us culture and mainly they build a strong industry in our lands during 19. century. It's just shame that most Czechs forgets that without Germans, we couldn't even have our own republic.
Oh you mean Karlštejn (Karlstein) right? Yeah I can only recommend this castle, it's really nice!
Thank you for the tips!
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It was a big tragedy what happened in the first half of the 20th century,
and after it you were treated bad by the communists.
Indeed Czechs and Germans worked and lived together for so many centuries...
and then Germans became arrogant and Czechs becames arrogant against each other.
I can also understand the Czechs. You were sorrounded by a huge number of Germans,
maybe some feared the own culture is in danger. And I would never like, that a culture/ language
is attacked, all european cultures are beautiful and unique...Oh Gott I sound kitschig XD
But it´s true^^
Yes Karlstein! Or visiting some parts of Mähren (Moravia?).
Are u also a patriot?
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Yeah tell me about it... :/ I still can't understand why we voted Communists in 1948 and then we locked up our soldiers, who fought on the western front. There is really great czech movie about this story... Dark blue world (Tmavomodrý svět)
And then the 1968. It's really sad, because during the 60's we had much more freedom, people could openly criticize the socialist regime, singers could sing in english, people could listen western music and much more... I really think if Soviets would let us be, we would be probably again democratic country in the 70's and we would never lost our reputation of developed country and we wouldn't lost a part of our culture.
Yeah, lots of Czechs thinks this. But I don't think that Germans would ever destroy our culture (or us), if they really wanted to do it, they would already do it a long time ago, because they had a chance for it, but in the end it never happend. So I think every Czech should just calm down and realize the facts.
Well there are a lots of things that I don't like about my country, like the Hussite war (I agree with thoughts of Mistr Jan Hus, but I don't approve what Hussites did). Then the frequently occurring rebellions of Bohemian nobles against the Habsburgs and finally I don't like most of our actions during the 20. century.
But in the end I really like my country, our culture and our history. So I would say, yes I'm a patriot.
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Well and we had 1968 a different revolution...a leftist commi one, who wanted to do it
as the chinese in their culture revolution, and these people still rule our land, which sucks XD
Yep, in the baroque era, they could´ve easily forced the Czechs to forget their language
and become Germans. But they didn´t, Maria Theresia did even care a lot about it,
and helped the languages to rise again. I think she even wanted to learn all languages
of her Reich, and later Sisi, too.
But I´m sure the Nazis would´ve done it. But the normal Germans had no interest in destroying
whole cultures.
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Ich finde das wäre Österreich rechtmäßig zugestanden, eine Schande,
dass das Recht so mit Füßen getreten wurde von Neidern...
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Das ist ja überall im deutschen Raum passiert.
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Ich würde ja nichts sagen, wenn sie einfach sagen, tja wir haben gewonnen Pech.
Aber sie versuchen es auch noch damit zu rechtfertigen, dass wir die Alleinschuldigen und Bösen waren,
und das kann ich gar nicht ab
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As Czech I would like to ask you: Do you think that Czech state in such borders would be viable entity? Do you think that in such borders our state would be able to exist as really sovereign state, not just German satelite or bantustan???
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I think yes, because it means the Versailles Treaty did cute Czechia out of Austria,
so it becomes a souvereign state, just making real ethnic borders as different, so it would be similar
to our real history, maybe Czechia even unites with Slovakia here
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Can you point me one state in the world with similary absurd borders as post-Munich Czechoslovakia?
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Define absurd, what was wrong about it?
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Borders in which no state can live as viable unit. I hope you dont pretend that Czechoslovakia could be sovereign state in post-Munich borders.
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Again: Why should that be our problem? If Czechs leave the 1000 year membership inside
the Reich, they have to withstand the consequences...or they stay. But they solved it
1945 by expulsion and murder, so it´s over anyway. Just some Czechs told me, they
expelled the wealth together with the Germans.
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There was no German Reich as united state which have lasted 1000 years. Holly Roman Empire was just loose confederation of independent states. According to Sachsenspiegel, king of Bohemia was even not considered to be German.
Germany as united state was created at first in 1871. Without Bohemia! In 1918, we left Hapsburg monarchy, which lasted for cca 400 years (so definitely not 1000 years) and was definitely not German national state.
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I know you don´t have to tell me history^^
What I mean is, Czechia was since ca. 1000 years in the german influence sphere,
political borders can be created randomly, they don´t matter, what matters is the
ethnic and culture.
And don´t forget Praha was our capital once (Karl IV), it had the first german university,
and even the Pilsner beer you´re so famous for, was brought by bavarian brewers,
to sudetengerman brewers in Pilsen.
Your land is so extremely german influences, that it´s a wonder that you could get such a
hate against it.
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And here we go again..
"If Czechs leave the 1000 year membership inside the Reich, they have to withstand the consequences" - The Reich itself did not last 1000 years (niether the first, nor the third). It desintegrated without our infuence more than 100 years before declaration of Czechoslovakia. Our reasoning was that if we could vote to be part of Habsburg monarchy (Czech estate summit in 1526) we (= the Lands of Bohemian Crown) can decide to leave it, the 1526 vote was in Czech language btw.
Twice - Rudolph II. Interestingly, in both times, the only legal language was Czech. Karel's laws made it so.
Concerning Prague university (Charles is later name) it was also Polish, and it served even as university for Hungary. That much for its 100% Germanness.
Plzeň was not part of sudetenland. Even nazis didnt dare to claim it so. Yep we hired Bavarian brewmaster. I could not find owners structure at that time, just that the town brewery was established in 1501 -a t that time i expect Czech majority (German catholics left Bohemia during hussite wars, and Plzeň was Czech city even before the wars).
In 19th century Germans started extreme ani-Slav propaganda which forced many people who could speak only german so far to learn Czech language as act of defiance. And they prevailed. One could say that without German nationalism, there would be no Czech national revival. Count it as German influence:-D
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Is this an answer on one of our old discussions? Can´t remember.
When someone says 1000 years it doesn´t mean exactly 1000, don´t be such a peas counter
For the rest, I never said different, did I?
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Lets say some people get nervous once Garmans start to talk about number 1000: youtu.be/ZO3ZaeyTUdk
:-D
I am peas counter by occupation
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Every country had it dreams, and so many had their century, but the german one was prevented^^
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I thing you were doing quite fine from 800 to 2014... and 19th century was all yours.
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Mh let´s say ca. 950-1200 was good, then the Reich became splittered and weak slowly.
After the 30 years war we were at the bottom, France could dominate now. And we completely
missed the colonial centuries.
The 18th century was the french one, the 19th century the british one, the 20th could´ve been
the german one, if we won ww 1., but when it was our turn, they did everything to stop it XD
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After 30y war there was German heyday at least from our perspective - German language become 2nd official language in Bohemia and also there was immense influx of Germans. In global perspective you may be right.
20th century was of USA, no doubt and no other outcome of ww1 was able to change it..
But you were doing overly well in 19th century - besides unification you became leaders in industry. Not to mention you still got some colonies.
Ive read some info about septemberprogramm, and i have to admit i am really glad that you lost.
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No the 30 years war killed so many, usually we learn in our history books it was a lost century.
But yes suprisingly we had no threat from the east in all that time, only France took our western regions.
Yeah the industry thingy is true^^ But it didn´t lead to a domination as France, Spain or Britain had once.
I´m not glad that we lost, because only because of that the Nazis could rise, which worse than any Septemberprogramm.
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