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artisteri In reply to JediLibrarian [2011-12-09 05:59:30 +0000 UTC]

Thanks so much!

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artisteri In reply to Tami-lioness [2011-02-12 00:17:43 +0000 UTC]

Thanks very much!

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artisteri In reply to wanlingnic [2011-01-15 23:13:16 +0000 UTC]

Thanks very much, I wish they had something like this in there too

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artisteri In reply to Kendae [2010-12-09 01:51:54 +0000 UTC]

Thanks so much! I adore them too, can't get enough of the two of them

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artisteri In reply to Eve-Francesca [2010-12-07 08:47:19 +0000 UTC]

Thank you so much ^^

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Eve-Francesca In reply to artisteri [2010-12-07 08:54:26 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome!

Hey. I noticed one of your comments on a piece of =julvett 's art a few days ago. You mentioned that you're not a fan of Harry and Ginny as a couple in the "Harry Potter" books. You stated that they were a random pairing. May I ask why you feel that way? I'm personally a big fan of the couple and I find it interesting to hear (or read) the opinions of people who feel the opposite. That, and I think it's fascinating that so many people hate the pairing. But perhaps you just don't like them and you don't necessarily hate them.

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artisteri In reply to Eve-Francesca [2010-12-07 21:36:13 +0000 UTC]

Well, I don't mind explaining but I warn you this is going to be loooong!

When I was reading through all the books, most especially as Harry went through puberty and onwards, he was always on his own, if you know what I mean. He has friends (just 2), but as much as they are wonderful and supportive, they don't know what it's been like for him, he tries to hide a lot of it and he has a lot in his head that not many people see. He's an outsider to the rest of the school, he's more of an introvert in that way (he may wish to be an extrovert, but I think circumstances made him so). He has Ron and Hermione who understand him sympathetically, but they can't fully comprehend the difficult emotions in his head, and other than those two he doesn't really have any other friends. I'm not saying Ron and Hermione have perfect happy lives, but not having suffered the way Harry has make some of Harry's mental anguish incomprehensible to them.
Several times at Hogwarts throughout the books he was even an outcast, and those two were the only ones who would speak to him. So even though later in the book he's a hero and at the end he saves the world and I'm sure it gives him the ability to date pretty much whoever he wants, I would think he would only choose someone who really sees him for who he is, beneath all the outward stuff (maybe I'm talking too deeply here). And because of the fickle nature of the other students in school, he would be reluctant to form close bonds with them right away.

I actually never saw anyone in the book that would suit him romantically, and that's why I wasn't surprised when Cho didn't suit, because she was quite typical in her own way as a girl, didn't have all the problems that he did or an understanding of him. She was worried about dates and small things compared to the crap Harry had to deal with.

Until towards the end of the sixth book with Luna.
She was perfect because she was an outcast just like him, she knew how people as a group could like you one minute, pick on you the next, and she had a much deeper understanding of what he went through than even Ron and Hermione (who were never really picked on).
Yet she still was able to stay positive, and I think Harry admired that about her. At first he felt sorry for her, but then he realized it didn't upset her (like it had greatly upset him), and I think he admired her for that.
So you have understanding already, and admiration. If anything I would say it appeared that Harry kinda liked her and Luna didn't show any particular affection towards him.
But then through some other comments later, when things started getting really dangerous towards the end of that book, she made several comments that proved that not only did she understand what it was like for him at school, but she understood how different he was from everyone else. How they were the only two who could see those death horses(sorry I can't remember what they were called).
I wouldn't say this lends itself to them immediately becoming a couple, but at the very least I see the two of them becoming very close friends. However, in the seventh book, Luna sortof disappeared and was just left on the sidelines to be one of those "secondary friends", along with Neville and the rest. Disappointing.

And that brings me to Ginny. I don't hate her, but probably my biggest issue with her is that I don't know her at all.
She doesn't have any personality up to and including the second book, where all we know is she's the only girl in the Weasley family, and she hero-worships Harry who she's never really had a conversation with. He saves her, and he's worried about her only because she's Ron's sister (and it would be a little creepy if it was for any other reason, since she was like what... 10 or 11 at that time?).
Anyways, they both grow older, at more reasonable ages. And still they don't ever really interact, even at the Burrow when Harry visits, he's completely occupied by Ron and Hermione, and if not that, he knows Fred and George far better than the others. I think before book 6 the Weasley he knew the least out of all the kids and the parents included would have been Ginny.
All he knows is that she's nice, she's a Weasley, and she's Ron's sister. She has never been included in their "group".
So that brings me to my next point. You know how I was talking about above where Ron and Hermione are the only people that are close to him, and even they are not all that close? I think that argument above is exactly why Harry doesn't end up falling in love with Hermione. It's not like Ron said "dibs" and Harry decided he'd never like her. It's because she's an important friend and someone he admires but I don't think they have that deeper connection or understanding (and seeing how smart Hermione is, she can understand a lot more than he realizes). So out of all the women close to him up to book 6, I'd say the only one that is even close to him, that might pop into his head as a romantic partner, would be Hermione. Cho he admired from afar because she was pretty, but her personality didn't suit. He never mentions Ginny as being pretty as far as I can recall in this part. So he hasn't noticed her yet.

Then in book 6, he suddenly notices that Ginny is attractive, and when he sees her flirting with Neville he starts liking her. It feels very sudden, like he's had many changes of heart all at once. Ginny never demonstrated any particular understanding or connection to him, as she shows interest in dating him, it feels like it's mostly for his looks, and yes her family adores him and feels sorry for him, but does Ginny? I don't know, but either answer is not a good one for a relationship. Ginny went through her "hardship" in book 2, but otherwise hasn't had any problems really to speak of. In fact, I think she's the opposite, as when she matures she's quite popular and dates several different guys. She kindof has her pick, and that makes me think the only reasons she picks Harry is because her family approves, because he's handsome and he's special. There's not really any mention of a special or deeper connection.
I cannot recall any conversation between them where it seemed like she understood him better than Ron and Hermione (and shouldn't a couple be closer than that?). Harry sortof made the moves towards her (and seeing as she didn't really have a connection with him up to that point, I feel like it was just because she was pretty and Ron's sister). And she just went along with it.

It felt random to me because they did not have that connection, set up because it seemed like it was happening just because she was the little sister of his best friend (and the only woman around who wasn't Hermione at the Burrow). It never sat right with me, and I still don't like it. And on a side note, I find it a little creepy how similar in appearance they are to his parents...

I don't hate them and people are welcome to like any couples that they choose (and there's definitely tons of supporters for very weird Harry Potter pairings). But I'm thinking as someone who has been bullied and who has some experience with things like what Harry went through, and from my perspective, as much as it might seem like Ginny is an easy choice because she's almost like family, she doesn't demonstrate any qualities or emotions towards Harry that would make me think he'd want to open up to her.

I'm so sorry for the length and I hope it made sense >.>

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Eve-Francesca In reply to artisteri [2010-12-07 22:32:27 +0000 UTC]

That's alright. I'm used to replying to long comments.

I agree that Harry felt a sense of isolation because of his traumatic encounters with Voldemort. Of course Ron and Hermione weren't able to fully comprehend his experiences. All of the members of the trio went through different things. I can see why you saw some potential for Harry and Luna as a couple. They could relate in a lot of ways, but Harry didn't seem fully able to appreciate Luna for her eccentricities. Also, I don't fully view Harry was an outcast. Yes, he had people who picked on him, but he also had people who supported him outside of Ron and Hermione. He got along with Dean and Seamus well enough (not counting Seamus's temporarily bad attitude towards him in the fifth book) and he was selected by Oliver Wood to be on the Quidditch team during his very first year at Hogwarts. He got along well with his teammates, too.

No, Ginny didn't have much of a personality in the second book. Her personality didn't shine through in that book because she was around Harry, whom she had a crush on. Of course she wasn't going to show her true personality in front of a boy who made her feel all flustered. "She hero-worships Harry who she's never really had a conversation with." Why exactly did you use the term "hero-worships?" She simply had a crush on him. There are many young girls who have crushes at that age, and why wouldn't she have one on Harry Potter? He's a pretty big deal seeing as he defeated Voldemort as an infant, after all. I'm sure I would've had a crush on Harry if I had been in Ginny's place. It's not like Ginny bows at his feet, worships the ground that he walks on, and offers to do anything and everything for him in the second book.

"And still they don't ever really interact, even at the Burrow when Harry visits, he's completely occupied by Ron and Hermione, and if not that, he knows Fred and George far better than the others. I think before book 6 the Weasley he knew the least out of all the kids and the parents included would have been Ginny." This is true, but only to a certain extent. Harry doesn't interact with Ginny much in the earlier books, but he gets to know her pretty well in the fifth book. By the time six book rolled around he knew that Ginny was fierce, good at Quidditch, had a mischievous streak like the twins, and was small but powerful. He learned all of these facts about her from observing her behavior in the fifth book and from talking and interacting either with her or those who were close to her.

"Then in book 6, he suddenly notices that Ginny is attractive, and when he sees her flirting with Neville he starts liking her. It feels very sudden, like he's had many changes of heart all at once. Ginny never demonstrated any particular understanding or connection to him, as she shows interest in dating him, it feels like it's mostly for his looks, and yes her family adores him and feels sorry for him, but does Ginny? I don't know, but either answer is not a good one for a relationship. Ginny went through her "hardship" in book 2, but otherwise hasn't had any problems really to speak of. In fact, I think she's the opposite, as when she matures she's quite popular and dates several different guys."

I find it interesting that you put quotes around the word hardship. I think it would be very traumatizing to be victimized by Voldemort in the way that Ginny was. She probably thought that all of the horrible events that took place at Hogwarts during her first year were all her fault. I feel a lot of sympathy for her, really. She experienced a lot at such a young age, which is rather similar to Harry, seeing as they were both targeted by the malicious dark lord himself at the age of eleven.

There were hints in the fifth book that Ginny was the right girl for Harry. The scene where they were talking in the library during Easter and eating chocolate was a great example. Harry opened up to Ginny, trusted her (in spite of the fact that he didn't know her all that well at the time), and confided in her with a problem. Ginny listened to him and demonstrated a great understanding of him and his needs. She didn't try to placate him like Ron does, and she didn't scoff at his ideas just because they would risk breaking the rules like Hermione has the tendency to do. In fact, the sense of understanding that she demonstrated (and her ability to patiently listen without interruption) was quite similar to the way that Lupin and Sirius treated Harry in the earlier books of the series. Harry needs a girl who understands him and his ideas and he has that in Ginny.

I should add that Ginny also follows through with her word and helps Harry find a way to distract the students of Hogwarts (the twins wouldn't have known to create a diversion with their swamp if Ginny hadn't informed them that Harry needed a little help) so Harry can find out what is going on with Sirius and the morbid visions that he (Harry) is having about him. I'd say that indicates loyalty on Ginny's part.

Harry noticed other things about Ginny in the fifth book as well. It didn't all happen in the sixth book. He noticed that they could both relate about having their minds invaded/overtaken by Voldemort when he feared that Voldemort was possessing him. He noticed that they could relate and connect on a deep level that Ron and Hermione would never be able to. (Ron and Hermione have never been possessed by Voldemort, after all.) Then there were the times that Ginny made him laugh and smile in the sixth book. Even Ron said at the end of the fifth book that Harry needed to be with someone "a bit more cheerful" (because of Harry's experience with Cho) and someone who would make him happy. Ginny just does that: she makes Harry happy. When he's with her he forgets that he's Harry Potter, The Boy Who Lived. He's just Harry. Harry finds Ginny's uplifting personality attractive just as much as he appreciates her looks.

Not to mention that she's independent just like him. They both have an independent streak and Ginny has been known to put Harry in his place when he treats her like a little girl. She stood up for herself and told him that she was just as capable of fighting with the rest of the group at the Ministry of Magic when he tried to tell her to stay behind at Hogwarts in "Order of the Phoenix." Harry needs that. He has to realize that he can't constantly protect everyone. Clearly Ginny is very loyal to her friends, and it was her choice to support Harry and fight along side him regardless of the danger.

The hints for the relationship were there. You really needed to dig in order to see them because they were subtle. They weren't as obvious and as in-your-face as the foreshadowing of Ron and Hermione's relationship.

As far as Ginny's dating life is concerned, she only dated two boys prior to getting together with Harry. She dated Michael Corner for around a year (or perhaps a little less) and she dated Dean for a year or a little over it. She only dated two boys before dating the man that she would someday marry. So, no, she didn't date several guys before Harry. Just two.

Yeah, Harry and Ginny are similar in appearance to Harry's parents, but that's merely a coincidence. It doesn't mean anything--unlike what a lot of people believe. Lily is described as having dark red hair while Ginny's hair is more ginger colored. It is also never stated if Lily has freckles and clearly Ginny does. Also, Harry has his mother's eyes, not his fathers. So there are some differences.

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artisteri In reply to Eve-Francesca [2010-12-07 23:53:42 +0000 UTC]

I love long conversations

In terms of physical differences of appearance, say between Ginny and Lily, I understand that's totally a coincidence and there are some differences. I don't have a problem with that in the books, except it's a little odd in fanart, partly also because each artist puts their own spin on it so sometimes, you can't tell which couple they are drawing But that's only a tiny little thing.

For those hints in the fifth book, I guess I never noticed them, which might warrant another reading, but it's a shame they were written in a way that they completely slipped my mind. And I'm not saying I don't like Ginny as a character. She helped, and she fought on her own, and she's definitely not a lilting flower who needs protecting. I used the term "Hero-worship" not to say that it was extreme (sorry if it came over as such), but to say that she idolized him, without knowing him. I guess it was the wrong wording, but we were pretty much talking about the same thing. Her crush at the time was understandable, as was her guilt later on.

However, the reason I think Harry is isolated from a lot of people I don't think is solely because of Voldemort. In fact, I think it's the opposite. You know how at the beginning, he was afraid he was almost like Voldemort, because he had grown up abused, with very little love, he was isolated, he had a lot of anger... Those issues from his childhood, even if Voldemort had never entered the picture, would naturally make Harry someone who finds it very difficult to open up to people. It's the fact that not only is he an orphan but the rest of his family abused him quite badly for practically all of his childhood. That is something that would make him hesitant to trust, and something that Ginny cannot understand, coming from the very loving family that she does. Of course, that's not her fault at all, and she's a smart girl so she can understand in theory. But understanding doesn't automatically break down those walls. And though Dean and Seamus and the Quidditch team help him to feel like he belongs, the fact that their opinion of him was able to change so quickly, often in the books going from liking him to thinking he was a murderer or a liar, in my mind would reinforce the fact that that sort of friendship is unreliable and fickle.

Of course, the key differences that made Harry good and Voldemort bad are things like the fact that he chose to get rid of that anger and focus on love, friendship, protection, positive things, protecting his newfound family in the connections that he made at Hogwarts.

I can see how Harry and Ginny have a connection, with Voldemort being in their heads, the feeling of helplessness, of being taken over, the pain and the guilt and all of that, and it could definitely bring them closer. But I can't quite make the leap from that to romantically involved. It's a bit like therapy, for them to talk things through with each other, for them to understand each other that way and to reveal feelings few other people know of and understand. It could bring them closer, but I don't see that being romantic, and on the contrary in some cases, having someone who knows all those negative things about you, well it might make you more reluctant to be romantically involved. Of course that might not be the case here, but we don't really know Harry's thoughts on the matter. If it was significant, I feel that we should have seen more of that in his head, as he thought about it, reflected on its importance. But we didn't.

I didn't mean to say that Ginny's hardship wasn't difficult, the quotes were more for highlighting it. She had hardships at Hogwarts aside from that I'm sure, but that's the only one that stood out and was a big deal.

I find it interesting that you compared Ginny's ability to understand and support Harry to the way Lupin and Sirius treated him. I'm not questioning the fact that Ginny would be a friend in his life. Right from the beginning, just being in his inner circle meant that she had more potential for a connection and as we saw she was a good person so she earned her place as a friend. But I don't really see any romantic side to it. They supported him like a family, and I always felt that Ginny felt like family to Harry, like a sister that was practically his real sister, since Ron was like a brother to Harry. That was what made it a little more unusual to me.

And it felt very awkward when Harry went from liking her and getting along, to being so full of passion for her all of a sudden. I feel like if he fell for her, it would be more of a slow, gradual thing, where you could see them bonding even more, getting to know each other even more.
And even though you mentioned times where they talked, they were as you said, very subtle, and did not come across as such.

I would have liked the two much more if I could have seen a more prominent development of Harry's feelings towards her, and her to him. And one could argue that such a thing wasn't possible because of all the dramatic events and serious stuff and problems that happened that would have disrupted a normal courtship. But I don't mean a normal courtship. I just mean a more obvious, gradual development of emotions within Harry. The way the books are written we are in Harry's head a lot of the time, and I feel like he went from "she's Ron's/my sister" to "she's the one".

The "several" guys she dated was merely to point out that Ginny was considered popular, not that she dated a lot, but I think she could have had her pick of guys. And not to say Harry is a bad choice, but what was he able to offer her that someone like Neville couldn't, that was unclear. Neville has had plenty of hardships, I'd argue he's as strong as Harry even though he's in the background a lot, he shares many traits with Harry.

And about Ginny's being independent... this might sound weird, but in my mind, I don't see Harry as the overly protective type. I mean yes, he does not want to hurt those he loves, and he wants to get stronger to protect them, and maybe this is just my flawed memory and I need to reread the books, but I don't remember him coddling anyone. The only women he's ever really around are all very strong, so while he would want to protect them, all that usually entails is protecting them from himself, not protecting them in the overprotective "keep guys away, open the door, flowers and roses and destroy any guy who dares to touch her" way. He doesn't discount their strengths or think he can protect them better than they can handle themselves, like Hermione, Tonks, McGonagall even, and in some ways, his stepmother Petunia. They have all been very strong-willed and almost domineering, so Harry isn't the type to say "stay at home safe ladies, I can handle this!". Or at least, not any more so than he would be with a guy. In fact, I'd say he would try to protect Ron more than Hermione, because he knows she can take care of herself and he's not so confident about Ron

For when Ginny stood up and said she wanted to fight, I believe Harry was simply being protective of her as Ron's sister who was by extension treated as Harry's sister (though I don't think it would be hard to convince Harry that Ginny is more competent than Ron at magic ). But from that, the person who made Harry realize that he couldn't run off, go fight on his own and protect everyone was not Ginny, it was Ron and Hermione, especially Ron in all those Deathly Hallows moments. So while Ginny fighting might represent that, I don't think that Harry realized that. And if he didn't realize or notice that, then it doesn't say much for their relationship to me.

Anyways, I don't hate them (and I tend to staunchly support couples than an author picks and dislike going against them normally). But I don't feel a spark or a connection, I don't feel like there's enough there so I'm not very motivated about them. I really felt like Ginny was practically Harry's sister, so it felt very awkward when they became a couple.

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artisteri In reply to PhantomLatte [2010-12-04 21:01:03 +0000 UTC]

I thought it would be a sweet intimate moment Thanks!

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PhantomLatte In reply to artisteri [2010-12-05 01:41:17 +0000 UTC]

your welcome! and you were right!

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artisteri In reply to annointed92 [2010-11-26 03:11:57 +0000 UTC]

Thanks very much!

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artisteri In reply to xitsveronikiox [2010-03-05 05:10:42 +0000 UTC]

Thanks so much, me too And thanks for the fav!

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