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Cola82 — We Disagree
Published: 2010-01-17 00:30:52 +0000 UTC; Views: 797; Favourites: 33; Downloads: 0
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Ain't it beautiful?I seem to encounter this notion a lot: someone gets to express his/herself online, but that if I respond, somehow I don't respect their views, or I'm oppressing them. I can't stand it, either, when they throw up their hands and say, "It's just my opinion, okay!?" You said it in public, yeah? I can't respond with MINE? I do this thing when I have an opinion and I don't want it challenged. I KEEP IT TO MYSELF.
Anyway, it was reinforced today when I was linked to this at Neatorama: [link] #8
I'm just glad I'm not the only one that's noticed. Of course, I wouldn't have if I weren't such a big mouth.
And I wonder why no one likes me!
Some other stamps that deal with similar issues:
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Comments: 19
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Oh yes--this happens SO much.
I think my least-favorite variant is that if you don't like what someone else does (especially something extremely-trivial like a book or something), that's a deep, personal attack on them or worse, and they 'need' to retaliate in some over-the-top way.
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Yeah. I mean, I can almost understand when you're challenging someone's deeply held beliefs about politics or something, but when it's freaking literature? I mean... come on and relax, why don't you? We can have an honest disagreement, can't we? If not about the big questions, than at least about this?
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A lot of the time I've seen it, it's not even about 'real literature' so much as it's about stuff that's meant to just be fun/entertaining: games, cartoons, storybooks, etc.
Certainly takes a lot of the fun out of them, that's for sure.
I mean, come on, why do people take such harmless little stuff like it's life and death sometimes? It's really weird.
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People view your differing tastes as an indictment of their own. I learned a long time ago that if people don't like what I like, that doesn't make me a bad person, or wrong. It all depends on their arguments whether the subject is good or bad, but at the gut level it's all subjective, and you can't call someone out for what they feel.
Like all this Avatar business. My boyfriend, my best friend and I were all really excited about it, but pretty much everyone we respect found it deplorable racist drivel. It still smarts to see my favourite bloggers taking it as an established fact that the movie was objectively bad, and what bothers me isn't that they didn't like it, it's that few of them felt the need to clearly articulate why they thought so and provide some kind of logical defense of their position (not that there isn't an argument to be made, but I think they've dismissed the movie based on its flaws and missed the forest for the trees). Still, though, I don't take it personally. I don't stop reading their blogs and I don't like the movie any less. I'm not afraid of the conversation that's worth having.
On the other hand, when it came to Clinton in the democratic primary, I had friends who refused to respect my desire not to talk about her, and that was total bullshit, too. I keep my opinions to myself if I don't want them challenged. It's not like they couldn't talk about her with other people.
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Yeah. For me, though, it's different, and sometimes people are ALREADY so bad that it makes me not even want to get INTO new stuff, because I don't want to put up with people attacking ME, not even *it*. You know?
It's pretty much exactly that people won't allow you to like what you like anymore, even if it's not extremely wrong/horrific, and not hurting anyone, either.
Same with people's beliefs--I see things ALL THE TIME that diss various entire groups of people (not referring to just one or two, either) and say stuff like '[insert your idea] IS STUPID STFU AND GROW UP AND STOP TRYING TO BE COOL'. To people who are doing nothing wrong, and not hurting anyone, or shoving anything in anyone's face, either.
So why IS it we live in SUCH an angry time where *everything* has to have a militant 'anti' campaign to where you feel allowed to like or believe in *nothing* (due to said militant 'anti' campaign), because no matter WHAT you do, there's always a million people telling you to 'grow up', 'stfu', 'get a life', 'get over it retard', or muchmuch worse?
I mean, when we get down to warring over things like not just serious stuff like personal beliefs, but instead over things like what colors or animals you are or aren't 'allowed' to like, to me, that's kind of somewhere in between sad, and downright scary.
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You can like whatever you want unless you're overly concerned with being liked by every asshole on the internet. I know it still kind of sucks to be confronted with it all the time, but it's not the same as an institutional oppression.
Informal society has always served the function of enforcing taboos, which are culturally constructed. In the extremely democratic world that is the internet, people glom together and form their own social groups based on shared interests. Unfortunately, one of the ways people--and more importantly, groups--define themselves is by deciding what they are not. We are not exogamous, we are not Communists, we don't eat pork, we don't like anime. Vegans are great example of a group that is defined primarily by what they are not. The only thing that's new about this phenomenon is the internet.
One of the ways that that group reinforces its identity is through demonstrations of pride. For instance, the clubs that require you to advertise your membership. Most groups, on the internet at least, are less formal, but they still follow the rules of groups. You do this, you don't do this. By advertising your interests you're attracting people to your camp. So, yes, much of the badge wearing that goes on on DA is in the form of advertising what you are not, but if you look closely, they engage in just as much proactive self definition. I like cake. I like video games. Long live Marcus Fenix.
It's important to keep in mind that most of the users on this site are under the age of eighteen. Most of them will outgrow the need for such bold and defensive demonstrations of group identity, but we all engage in it to some degree. Unfortunately, you can't change most people's minds about the things they do and don't like, especially if they have found a group that positively reinforces their behaviour. You can make your case and hope they listen, but in the end it's all just a function of human nature, and you'll just have to accept that.
If you can find your own echo chamber, chances are good you will rarely be challenged based on your tastes. Or you can be a bastard like me spend your time sharpening your rhetoric by heedlessly engaging the enemy.
As an addendum, if it's any consolation, I go out of my way not to put stamps in my journal space that I find overly defensive or confrontational, including my own. These may be honest sentiments of mine, but I try to express them more in practice and less in principle. I add a lot of stamps to my favourites that I never use, but honestly most people never see my stamps anyway.
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It's not always defensive is all I can say--it's often vicious 'ram it down your throat' or 'beat you up for just not being a part of it, period', and the worst ones I've actually met are *older* ones, mid-20's, to early-30's. I've even had *that* happen at this point in *real life*, with someone my MOM'S age--total stranger--trying to start something that trivial/weird on me in public over something--yes--like this and that small and trivial.
And it's not just me I've seen/heard it happen to.
So, really, I kind of doubt the whole thing is innocent 'defensive pride' or whatnot; there *are* a lot of people who put a lot of outright anger/hate/etc. into their stuff like that, after all, and are really brutal about it.
I mean, just disliking something doesn't mean you have to go all 'brutally attack the other person unprovoked because you can and be really cruel about it', but too many people do that.
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I never said it was innocent. I said it was human nature.
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Ok, well, I'm not sure how much, though. I mean, at some point, it just seems like people are going a bit past what's even remotely normal or natural, but that's just me.
Sorry if I mistook that, though.
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That makes it sound like some kind of conspiracy, though. It's just the way people are, to greater and lesser extents, in different ways. That doesn't excuse people's individual behaviours, but it goes a long way toward explaining them.
I think you would really benefit from an anthropology class.
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Saying I need a class on something because I think way too many people go way too far sometimes is a bit much.
I think this is the last I have to say. I'd rather not have a debate on the topic.
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I think you misunderstood me. I really enjoyed anthropology and it changed the way I thought about human behaviour. I think you'd find it really interesting.
I wasn't trying to offend you or say that you were defective in some way.
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I think I can make up my own mind about human behavior--I don't need some person to tell me what to think.
But this is the last of it--I'm only on here to check up on one person. Otherwise, I'm pretty much staying off of here from now on.
After some thought, I decided it's just not a great place for me to be.
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You may or may not respond, that's not really important, but if you ever take that anthropology class, I think you'll be surprised how based on discussion it is. There are several different schools of thinking about culture and human behaviour, and you're not told how people are or aren't, but rather encouraged to place it in context and analyse it. I think the experience would surprise you, but I'm of the opinion that one can never have enough education. We may think we've got things figured out, and indeed, you're not a moron or anything, but it's always refreshing to find out what we don't know. Like Socrates supposedly said that the truly wise man knows that he really knows nothing.
Anyway, it was a friendly suggestion, and I'm disappointed that you thought I was just insulting you.
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This kind of like my "Not Infringing" stamp. I really hate it when I express disagreement with someone and they say "I have a right to free speech."
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I know, right? It's like, "uh yeah, me too."
I don't know who said it, but it's like, "Your right to free speech ends where mine begins."
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