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DeimosSaturn β€” Heritage is Religion

Published: 2007-07-24 20:06:54 +0000 UTC; Views: 1309; Favourites: 8; Downloads: 10
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Description I want you to know how I feel about God. How I feel about sin. How I feel about Nationalism and Heritage. How I feel about Creationism. How I feel about morality. How I feel about sentimentality. How I feel about tradition. How I feel about righteousness. How I feel about Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Xenu, Satan, Mohammed, Moses, Sedarta, Vishnu, Rael, Zeus, Yahwea, Cube, Sphere, Pyramid, Pentahedron, Hexahedron, and Ra. How I feel about Heaven and Hell.

This is how I feel about those things:

Hate. Contempt. Disdain. Disgust. Pity. Bafflement.

If god does exist, then god is the devil. I don't believe there is such a thing as either. I don't believe in sin. I don't believe in absolute moral objectivity.

I believe we are only accountable to one another, not someone's imaginary friend.
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Comments: 36

Demmmmy [2010-07-18 23:23:59 +0000 UTC]

Good points, I agree with you.
More people need to realise that believing isn't knowing.

I know this piece is old, but I do think you bring up good points.

Also, back to the art, the shading on the flesh looks good
Is the eyed appendage on the left to do with the tribal triped at the top?

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brad873 [2008-02-20 19:36:41 +0000 UTC]

nice bit of art. i do agree, religion is more trouble than its worth, but it gives people something to cling to in this pathetic life. i for one, prefer to stay out of religion. my moms wicca, and i think its interesting because it says to be one with the eart, and there are no unrealistic gods. i have taken to saying things like "xenu, give me strength", and crap like that, because its fun to do. lol. but, you seem agressive to all around you,and, god or not, you must respect the creatures that surround you. all the pain you cause, all the hate you preech, it will all come back on you. there may be no god, but they is karma

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DeimosSaturn In reply to brad873 [2008-07-14 22:33:53 +0000 UTC]

Prove Karma exists.

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brad873 In reply to DeimosSaturn [2008-07-29 17:35:40 +0000 UTC]

what goes around, comes around. the very fact you are an unhappy person from what we can see is proof of Karma. you can never get away with doing good or bad. its a cosmic balance. do good, and you will be rewarded, do bad, and you will be punished. your punishment will be the reward of someone, setting the univers in line once more

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DeimosSaturn In reply to brad873 [2008-10-05 10:51:20 +0000 UTC]

Karma is bullshit. There is no dualistic balance in the way you are thinking of it. There is no one setting the scales of human interactions with anthropomorphic intuition. The law of entropy rules the universe. Everything in reality is slowly, cumulatively, dying and growing colder. In the end, evil always wins. There is no judge setting things right. There is no punishment or reward for behavior. "My Name is Earl" is not fucking Gospel. It's bullshit from top to bottom, left to right. Get your head out of the clouds and learn to live in rational reality.

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brad873 In reply to DeimosSaturn [2008-10-26 11:41:55 +0000 UTC]

i see where you are comming from, but i am afriad i dont totaly agree. yes, in the real world evil wins, but that doesnt mean youcan give up on any good. if you think that, then just goand do us all a fave and slit your wrists. theres too much negativity in this world

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brad873 [2008-02-20 19:29:40 +0000 UTC]

your wrong, you should belive in the all mighty XENU!!!!!!

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brad873 In reply to brad873 [2008-02-20 19:37:37 +0000 UTC]

woops, wrong pic. ohh, and i faved this pic

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Maleficus006 [2008-01-27 14:11:55 +0000 UTC]

Being a Buddhist, I don't really agree with the concept of hating all religions, because it won't get you any farther than loving all or one of them. I also don't agree with preaching your own religion to someone when they openly state that they want nothing to do with it. I'm disgusted by the lengthy and nauseatingly preachy comments below...

In the span of time between when I was a Christian and a Buddhist, I shared your sentiments in the fact that I hated all religions because they made people stupid and none of them made any sense. Then I discovered Buddhism. It wasn't really about God, heaven or hell. It was about living itself rather than how you should live if you want to go to heaven, and all that garbage. You might look into it if that interests you. It's almost an alternative to people who think most religions are total crap.

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relg [2008-01-27 03:28:43 +0000 UTC]

what about all father Odin???

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B--B [2007-08-26 14:35:45 +0000 UTC]

"god" and religion in general were things made up by powerful figures thousands of years ago to keep their people in line, and to make these figures somewhat immortal. It also provides hope for people in need.
If you look back at history, several different cultures have changed their religion extensively over many thousands of years- some drawing the leaders to a close relationship with these gods (example Darius I and Xerxes- worshiped Ahura-Mazda and were pictured as pretty close to the god and considered the divine choice to rule the empire, giving the population of the Persian empire complete faith in these rulers)
Almost all religions have the same thing in common- The afterlife. This supports my theory that powerful political figures implemented religion. They could slave away the population and religion would promise that the population would be rewarded with eternal life. This stopped potential revolt as everyone looked forward to bliss in the afterlife.
I don't feel that this is some completely weird theory, I think it is quite accurate indeed.
I now have the choice to rattle off on some scientific information that no-one has no clue about and come up with the conclusion that evolution is the probable way everything was created- or continue on with the things I understand....
When you look at people who follow religion.... religiously... a lot of them have nothing, or have been in the situation where they have had nothing but this, as you so kindly put it, "imaginary figure"
eg. (Near-death experience, extremely less fortunate etc) god is the only thing these people can turn to to provide a tiny thin spec of hope. You hear all these stories of people praying and everything working out for the best- but people fail to realise that heaps of times, it doesn't work out for the best. Imagine if everyone prayed in a situation like that, death rates are high, so many people are filing bankruptcy each day and so on.

I feel that god is highly unlikely to exist, but I can tolerate religion- I just hate people preaching to me.

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DeimosSaturn In reply to B--B [2008-03-04 05:30:42 +0000 UTC]

You can "tolerate" religion if you want...but religion isn't going to tolerate you. All these cults invented the notion of "tolerance" for the sake of not being a bigot. Since when is it being a bigot to criticize someone's irrational assertions? Since when is it being a bigot to point out that all religions are scams especially when I have a lot of empirical evidence?

Go ahead and tolerate religion, for the sake of politeness...they are going to continue trying to control your life.

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MysticalMike [2007-08-16 07:28:01 +0000 UTC]

Who did you tell that I am pretending to anything?
Who did you tell I want to be be calm and peaceful?
About what routine are you talking about?
I do not claim it (like you do)
(please, feel your own reaction now-whatever truly comes)

I see that you have basic problem with relationship with other people.
Do you feel loved?
All other people are full of shit too? (;

I think you feel not accepted (even by yourself)
and that's why you are so aggresive (or simply rude).
One day it must be seen and felt.

I dont claim you are not intelligent. I like your works.
but I claim you are emotionally castrated like all your androids.
Or all empathy is very very deeply hidden in you becasue it cannot be killed.

People are only mirrors that you use to see yourself (to be more aware of who you are).
Please call me shit as many times as you want (it doesnt change anything)
Or create something stronger that can really touch me...

I hope your frustration grows.
That's why I am here.

See, you hate yourself in others.
Thats why you want me to die.
And I will not die even when this human form will unmanifest itself.

I wish you true feelings in your suffering alone in your own world.

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B--B In reply to MysticalMike [2007-08-26 14:36:20 +0000 UTC]

Quit your bitching, it's only one person's view- why does it matter so much?

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MysticalMike [2007-08-05 11:19:03 +0000 UTC]

I am sure
you are
(;
whatever is 'your' enlightment
whatever is difference between me and you
whatever you think you are

not enlighted
hug

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DeimosSaturn In reply to MysticalMike [2007-08-16 04:43:59 +0000 UTC]

You know, that whole routine, pretending to be calm and peaceful, it's bullshit. You are being what is known as passive aggressive. You are so full of shit and you don't even know it. Eat shit and die.

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MysticalMike [2007-08-01 07:06:31 +0000 UTC]

Dear heartless kid,

You don't make any sense. Every sentence you utter is comparable to a snivelling retard. You don't attempt a real arguement, you spew absurd vilonece stories and mad-science bad high school cartoon-network.
You failed your life.
You failed your parents.
You failed humanity.
Kill yourself. Kill everyone.
Kill. Hate. (;

blah blah

Watch your face in a mirror, (respect yourself)
you will get what you give

ps. use your higher frustration
I need more

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DeimosSaturn In reply to MysticalMike [2007-08-05 05:36:10 +0000 UTC]

Stop pretending to be enlightened. I am more enlightened than you will ever be.

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MysticalMike [2007-07-30 11:35:36 +0000 UTC]

Dear Deimos,

Even when you think all is unworthy shit
and you want to be alone in it
swiming in oceans of hate, suffering, violence, anger or ignorance
it doesnt mean that there is no mercy for you

by the way
you cannot order me not to speak to you
it is my free independent decision

and you are allowed to call me fucking imbecile or something like this
every moment you like it
be creative, put on me whole your anger
vomit on me
if it makes you feeling better (;

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DeimosSaturn In reply to MysticalMike [2007-07-31 10:38:43 +0000 UTC]

Dear double-talking hippy fuck face,

You don't make any sense. Every sentence you utter is comparable to a snivelling retard. You don't attempt a real arguement, you spew absurd aphorisms and esoteric bad high school poetry. You failed your life. You failed your parents. You failed humanity. Kill yourself.

You cling to a fantasy, a delusion, a drug, because it's quaint, familiar, and you think it will garner you respect because of how piouse you are, but you are as spiritually inept as a ghost hunter. Learn to speak english, faggot.

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ladyz0e [2007-07-29 06:00:44 +0000 UTC]

Be prepared for some bible thumping christians, dood!

I like God and all, but unlike some I'm going to respect your opinion and not lecture on and try to prove that which can not be proven

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DeimosSaturn In reply to ladyz0e [2007-07-30 09:21:44 +0000 UTC]

You show me disrespect by saying my carefully drawn conclusions are at the level of "opinion". The reality is, my views are factual, belief in God is the opinion.

And if it were a matter of opinion, what makes you so sure your God is the true God? If beliefs are opinions, then Islam, buddhism, hare krishna, judaism, scientology, and hinduism are equally valid. None of their gods can be proven.

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ladyz0e In reply to DeimosSaturn [2007-07-30 09:27:46 +0000 UTC]

Hay. I respected your belief and theory, so plz be kind enough to do the same. I have no desire to argue religion over Deviantart over someone who chooses not to believe in it anyways. I have my own ideas about all that stuff, but I don't intend to start throwing them up on a website for kicks. :q

You're too quick to take your claws out. ! I wasn't even trying to start anything!

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DeimosSaturn In reply to ladyz0e [2007-07-31 10:43:09 +0000 UTC]

I don't think so. You feigned respect, which is more disrespectful than giving me an honest objection. The best honor I can expect from a friend is they at least spit on my face rather than force a smile and tell me something cliche that doesn't really mean anything.

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ladyz0e In reply to DeimosSaturn [2007-08-01 21:11:29 +0000 UTC]

Well sorry I'm not so pessimistic as you assume I am. > And no I'm not full of bullsht. I'm not so narrow minded and arrogant to pretend to be respectful, for what would I get from it? Furthermore you are my friend, I do agree pretending would be awful, but I am not pretending, so there.

I just feel this way about peoples ideas about religion and creationism and evolution and all that horribly controversial crap. It isn't the ideas themselves that make society so shtty, its the tension it creates. Everyone is so desperate to say "I am correct, all your other ideas are wrong", and so eager to force their beliefs down other peoples throats. It isn't Religion, its the people who do take their religion and use it to disrespect another's, with the excuse of "Its sinful, what they think!"

So, I do my best to respect what others believe. I'm not atheist or agnostic or..or even Satanist, but I still respect peoples beliefs and their choice to do so. Theres nothing I hate more than someone who tries and force their ideas on other peoples beliefs, so why would I try and be something I hate?

So no, I'm not upset about your choice to hate religion. I think you have a right to state in a public place that you hate God. Of course you have the right. its obvious. I'm more upset that you'd attack me so, because I merely commented on your piece. Is it simply because I said the word God? Or are you just too quick to fight for your beliefs? Come on now, you're my friend. :[! I don't wanna fight with you.

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DeimosSaturn In reply to ladyz0e [2007-08-05 05:47:48 +0000 UTC]

Tolerance is really great. It's so sweet and awesome and happy happy happy joy joy joy happy happy happy joy joy joy fun fun hooray yipee let's sing a song about candy.

The thing is though, religion is intolerable. There can be no dignity to someone who claims a belief in something that cannot even provide a rational definition of. If god is flowers and the smell of a new born baby's head, then great. If you could leave it at that, then hooray, let's sing about lollipops and rainbows. If you want to use that god to say this is taboo and this is righteous, then you should be rounded up into a concentration camp and forced into slave labor. It's as simple as that.

My convictions ARE NOT BASED ON BELIEFS. You can respect my rational arguments because they actually make sense, however, Other people's convictions are based on the unquestioning faith their parents taught them to have. That's the distinction between me and a jew or me and a christian or me and a muslim.

I'm upset that you continually equate my rational conviction that there is no god to the irrational faith of a person who says there is a god.

Now that you are (or should be) totally clear on that, let's hold hands and sing a song about chocolate waterfalls.

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ladyz0e In reply to DeimosSaturn [2007-08-08 05:44:48 +0000 UTC]

I'm not trying to equate your 'rational conviction' to someone else's faith or the like. @@; And I sorry if i came across as that.

And as for faith. Yea, its called faith for a reason. People choose to believe it regardless of a lack of evidence to support their deity's existence. 'I put faith that so and so is real, so I don't need proof yadda yadda". etc etc. :q

I still do not blame religion itself for causing people to use it to call others "evil" or "sinful". Its the people themselves that twist it all around, people who will claim they're christian yet never even picked up a Bible. Little lambs who obey whatever their priest or pastor commands them to believe. If human beings could just learn to be more accepting of other's differences, then the world would be a much better place.

Anyways, I don't rly wanna talk or argue anymore about all this. '3' I sorry if I in any way offended you. -patpats-

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MysticalMike [2007-07-27 07:01:00 +0000 UTC]

You cannot live without belive
You belive there is no god
so you belive in no-god
maybe Void?

You belive that you dont need religion
but what is religion?
what you dont need it and why?

I was not talking about separated god
I was talking about your own responsibility of your own creation

ps. The real truth about what is real is your own feeling NOW
do you like it?

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DeimosSaturn In reply to MysticalMike [2007-07-30 09:17:46 +0000 UTC]

You can live believing in things that don't exist if you want, don't expect me to take you seriously about how anyone should live their lives based on these non-existent things if you think evidence is unimportant.

I don't believe in a "void". I merely make the statement "I lack a belief in a deity or any deity". This statement makes no statement on anything else I believe. I make the statement "I lack a belief in morality" because I see no evidence that says morality is neccessary and I see lots of evidence that religious morality is hypocritical and corrupt.

My definition of religion is the dictionary definition.

What I don't believe in is a great deal. Specifically, I don't believe there is a god. Why? Why not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Because it's ridiculous to do so. Without basis, without reason, without evidence.

PS

You are a fucking imbecile and don't talk to me anymore.

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MysticalMike [2007-07-25 06:34:04 +0000 UTC]

God is simply love to everyone and everything
God is mercy
God is a tear in true eye
God is a final shelter

(you belive in what you see inside yourself, and noone cannot be free from it)
If you hate anything you hate a part of yourself
(separated painful individuality)

all you need is more love to yourself
when you love yourself
you love whole world
there is only world worth loving
it is you
noone else

ps. please try to see why you hate so much
feel, be true
what is wrong in anything?

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DeimosSaturn In reply to MysticalMike [2007-07-26 19:41:35 +0000 UTC]

God is the flying spaghetti monster. She is made out of meatballs and spaghetti. She also has sauce.

You can define your "god" as flowers or panda poop. What it comes down to is, if you believe there is an invisible anthropomorphic being that has determined how humans ought to behave, and that invisible being is the one and only true invisible being and everyone else's invisible being isn't real, then you are SORELY mistaken. No one's imaginary friend is real. They are all a myth passed down from generation to generation, originating from a time when people thought slavery was perfectly acceptable, children were fair game in the prostitution business, and diseases were caused by evil spirits and witches.

We don't need religion. No one does. It's worse than a crutch, it's a poison.

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falcondude123 [2007-07-25 03:33:53 +0000 UTC]

Well, I definitely think you are a good artist. Your abilities show in the quality of your work. Personally, I don't understand the logic of your comments; saying that there could be a devil without there being a God. I must say I strongly believe that we have a Father in Heaven who created us and all things around us. I would never force my convictions on you, for that is not what our Father in Heaven wants. He loves us all regardless of how we choose to act towards Him, and gives us all the freedom to make such decisions for ourselves. One day, however, I know all of us will be held accountable for our actions towards Him and His children here upon the earth, so I personally choose to follow His teachings and obey His commandments and strive to be a kind, loving person to those around me. I read His words in The Bible, for I am a Christian, and I also read His words in The Book of Mormon, for I am also a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I would strongly urge you to read both books, and I can tell you without doubt what peace and happiness the words within them bring to me. I can feel the Lord's powerful spirit enlightening my soul when I read them. The words calm me, soothe me, inspire and direct me about what I want my life to be; a happy, peaceful life of helping and loving others. When I read those books, joy fills me up. I feel a renewal of hope and understanding wash right through me. The light of my Savior's love brightens my spirit and helps me get through the day. And then I know, truly, I know that there is a God, and that He is NOT the devil, but a perfect, honest, caring and loving Father who watches over all of us in everything we do. He wants us to live righteously. He knows that only when we do so can we truly be happy through and through. I know it too, from knowledge and experience. I cannot command you what you ought to do, my friend, but I can encourage you. Have faith, be strong and don't give in to the darkness of the world. Search for your answers, pray for them, and our loving Father will answer you. Read the books I have mentioned. Take that first step of faith and take some time out of each day to study and ponder their teachings. If you do all this with a pure intent of finding the real truth, I promise you will, just as I have. I don't claim to know everything, but I know this: God is real, He loves us, and He does not forsake us. He gives us commandments so that we can be free and happy. He wants us to be free and happy, so he let's us choose our way through life, although only righteous decisions can bring true happiness. His commandments to us are contained in his scriptures. I deeply encourage you to read them, pray about them and see for yourself. All of this I submit to you as a friend who only wants you to discover the true joy and understanding that makes a man or woman happy. I promise it will.
Sincerely,
Lucas Johnson, EM, UT

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DeimosSaturn In reply to falcondude123 [2008-01-03 03:33:15 +0000 UTC]

"I don't understand the logic of your comments"

Correction: You refuse to understand the logic of my comments.

I strongly urge you to read your bible very carefully from cover to cover. This act, more than anything, is what turns most christians into atheists. That's the funny thing. You are telling me to read your bible, I already have. From page one, chapter one, verse one, it simply doesn't make sense. It's silly. So, next time you wish to have a conversation with someone and you DON'T want to make them think you are a simpleton, do not use the special pleading fallacies or anecdotes. Use logic or use empirical evidence.

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DeimosSaturn In reply to falcondude123 [2007-07-26 19:29:26 +0000 UTC]

Do you know what the "problem of evil" is?

J.R. Mooneyham explains it quite eloquently [link]

Simply put, there is no god, and if there were a god, God is pure evil. In the world I observe around me, I see no such thing as an omnibenevolent, omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent being anywhere.

When I read the bible, all I see is a book of children's myths that contradict a very basic and thorough understanding of reality CHAPTER ONE PAGE ONE from beginning to end.

God is NOT love. God is an imaginary friend humans invented to comfort their fear of death, their fear of the unknown, their fear of their bodies, their fear of individuality.

I've read some of the book of mormon. It's a farce. Your belief that there is a creator or any such nonesense as angels and demons is as silly or sillier than the belief in aliens, bigfoot, and the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!

God wants us to be free and happy? But the bible wants you to think homosexuality is evil, condoms are evil, evolution is evil.

Religion is a defect of societies. Spawned by those individuals who cannot bare to face reality. It is a poison.

Commandments were not given to us by god. There were general codes or standards for behavior generated spontaniously be societies depending on the kind of environment they lived in. Societal standards are different from culture to culture. In your culture, men can marry multiple women, but in another culture, women may harry multiple men, because the environment demands it, not god.

Killing is wrong, we don't need a god to tell us that. On second thought, there is no right and wrong, only what serves the individual. And NOT killing serves me quite well.

I recommend you read Beyond Good and Evil by Friedrich Nietzsche.

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falcondude123 In reply to DeimosSaturn [2007-12-28 00:08:49 +0000 UTC]

My friend, please calm down. I've never meant any hostility to you, nor have I meant any disrespect. I don't want to be your enemy, rather I'd like to be a friend. I acknowledge the fact that you seem to have given some thought to all of this, but you are simply mistaken in most of your opinions on this matter. It seems you are a slave to rhetoric and statistics formulated by men. You also are ignorant, even pathetically so, in many areas regarding the nature of religion, particularly mine. Your reference to polygamy in my church indicated that you think it is still a common practice. The truth is polygamy was abolished in the LDS church 117 years ago. The FLDS church(not affiliated in any way with the LDS church) is who you are talking about. I suggest you look past the clearly warped steriotypes you are being fed, perhaps even actively seeking, and try to rise to a clearer picture of the true world around you.
You claim that in the world around you, you see no omniscient, all-knowing God anywhere. how different you and me are; I see his work in the perfect placement of this planet in it's orbit around the sun. I see his blueprints written in the unexplainable order of the periodic table of the elements. I see his power reflected in every strand of DNA in every cell in every living thing, but alas, you do not, or more likely, you CHOOSE not to. You seem to see science as a matter of what you can prove, yet the evidence of a creator exists inside your own cells. I know I won't be able to convince you on this point, after all, those you claim to have the most scientifically open minds are usually those who are the least accepting of inconvenient evidences. So then instead of trying to tell you there is a God, I'll just let Theodore Roosevelt tell you why it is important that a society believes in one:
"In this actual world a churchless community, a community where men habe abandoned and scoffed at of ignored their religious needs, is a community on the rapid downgrade. It is perfectly true that occasional individuals or families may have nothing to do with church or with practices and observances and yet maintain the highest standard of spirituality and of ethical obligation. But this does not affect the case in the world as it now is, any more than that exceptional men and women under exceptional conditions have disregarded the marraige tie without moral harm to themselbes interferes with the larger fact that such disregard if at all common means the complete moral disintegrations of the body politic. Church work and church attendance mean the cultivation of the habit of feeling some responsibility for others and the sense of braced moral strength which prevents a relaxation of one's own moral fiber." -Teddy Roosevelt, 1917.
Relgion is the foundation of all civilized(and some uncivilized) societies.
You have said something interesting above: that there is no right and wrong, just what benefits the indivual, and NOT killing benefits you just fine. Hmmm. So, as long as killing DOES benefit someone somewhere, it is not right or wrong to do so? That is a serious logical fallacy. As far as evidence can show, religion is the original source of the idea of putting others before one's self. It is by this idea that mankind has been able to cooperate and create such technological marvels as we see today. As George Washington said:
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensible supports...'Tis substantially true, that virtue and morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule indeed extends with more or less force to every species of free Government. Who that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric? Observe good faith and justice towards all Nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religions and morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be that good policy does not equally enjoin it?...Can it be, that Providence has not connected the permanent felicity of a Nation with its virtue?" -George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796.
Freedom and Religion are counter-parts of the same eternal plan. Each complements eachother, and lacking one, a person is sure to lose the other. You questioned in your message whether God wants us to be free and happy, since he gives us rules to live by. The answer is yes; he wants us to be free and happy, and that is why he gives us rules to live by. For instance, most religions have prohibitions against addictive behaviors, whether that be drugs, alcohol, pornography, or sexual sin. By observing these prohibitions, people can avoid becomming slaves to the addictive behaviors, staying free and maintaining their personal agency. Also, most religions advocate common virtues and moralities, such as honesty and respect for others. I seriously doubt that you would question the positive results of observing such habits, but based on your ignorance of the positives of religion, I would not put it past you. My friend, it is time you accept the possibility that religious principles are not restricting, but rather liberating; not miserable, but joyous.
As for the bible, which you call a children’s book, I think that you have probably not read through the whole thing, and if you have, you have only done so searching for flaws, rather than spiritual edification or life lessons to be learned. This is only my assumption, however, and it’s possible I’m wrong. What I do know is that the bible, particularly the ten commandments and sermon on the mount, is the basis of Alfred the Great’s laws in tenth century England. According to Edward Gibbons, famous author of β€œRise and Fall of the Roman Empire,” these laws became the foundation upon which early American city charters and later the Articles of Confederation were built. These, in turn, became the bedrock of the United States Constitution. I do not know whether you are American, my friend, but if so, you can then see how biblical principles are the basis of our free government, just as Washington said.
For a moment, let’s assume that there is a God. Obviously, this is a point that cannot be scientifically proven, especially to closed minds who refuse to play the possibility out, but if you have any imagination at all, I’m certain you can consider the idea. Now one of your link’s points was that if there is a God, then he must be evil, and you yourself reiterated this point in your message. But how could you argue this point considering the next few points? First, you are alive. You have a life, a time appointed you to be on earth and make your mark on it. Now, remember; we are assuming God exists and he made you alive. Are you saying God is evil for making you?
Secondly, you have agency: the ability to choose what you do with your life. God gave this to you for a reason, knowing full-well you or others would use your agency to hurt other people or smear His holy name. Why, you wonder, would he give you this gift? Simply put, it allows Him to see if you will obey his commandments, and gives you a chance to earn eternal salvation. Is God evil for giving you and everyone else that opportunity? Of course not. And if you think that God is evil because of what people choose to do with what He gives them, then you are beyond reason, for you are excusing mankind’s wrongs and putting the blame on the one who wants them to be able to live with Him in heavenly paradise. It seems like blaming the landlord for a fire his renters started, when all they had to do was pay the rent and they could have eventually become landlords themselves.
The true stem of your argument is the question, β€œwhy would God allow us to suffer?” First of all, you can’t know what is sweet until you taste bitterness. How can we know how blessed we are unless we have humbling experiences? Second of all, suffering in the world is, once again, a consequence of the agency we all possess. Third of all, humbling experiences do just that; they humble us, making us grateful for what God has given to us.
It’s exceptionally interesting to me that you would call faith in God false because of world problems, when faith in God is often the best tool to get us through our difficult times. According to Paul H. Dunn, author of β€œMeaningful Living”:
β€œTo one who faces tragedy, a sincere faith in God is most precious and helpful. However, most of us are not constantly confronted with tragedy. We still have dreams we expect to realize. We still arise from our beds in the morning with a determination to conquer an enemy and win some new victory. And if we are young enough, we plan to do impossible things which no other person has ever done...Is there something in the teachings of the Savior that can challenge such people? Jesus would have us know that strong, true faith can help us gain everything our divine Father thinks we need.”
Life is not about what we get for ourselves, whether that be money, pleasure, success or glory. It’s about serving others, helping them, guiding them and befriending them. In the end, this essay I have written is my of trying to help you. You can take it or leave it, it’s your choice. What I would recommend is that you slow down and take a breath. I am not your enemy, even if you are mine. I meant everything I have said, and though I don’t know if any of it has had any effect on you, I can tell you that I personally know that all of it is absolutely true. Religion is not a poison. It is a remedy. It is not a chain or shackle, but liberation from bad habits and weaknesses. It brings faith, and faith brings unity to peoples, becoming the origin of all civilized society. I have dozens of books, quotes and facts that I could through at you, but ultimately, true happiness flows from the waters of religion that you cannot understand unless you drink them. You may not choose to believe in God, but he is there and he watches and loves you just as much as me and everyone else on the planet. This is my word and my testimony. Take it, consider it, or leave it alone, but please, my friend, do not trample it.
Sincerely, Luke Johnson, AKA falcondude123

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DeimosSaturn In reply to falcondude123 [2008-01-03 03:44:39 +0000 UTC]

I didn't read your long boring garbage. I skimmed it. It looks like more special pleading and no real compelling arguments. You don't answer any of my questions directly. You can't because you dare not allow a thought of dissent into your mind. You lack a single fiber of objectivity. You want someone to arbitrarily give your silly cult a special treatment. No. I wont. I spit on your silly cult. I will openly call it a disease and openly call for it to be destroyed.

"especially to closed minds who refuse to play the possibility out, but if you have any imagination at all, I’m certain you can consider the idea" what follows is a poor and tedious bunch of dribble I've heard before which fails to actually address the problem of evil all together. Ad hoc rationalizations and special pleading coming out the wazoo.

"you can’t know what is sweet until you taste bitterness"
That's bullshit pure and simple. The chemistry of the complex carbohydrate can easily be detected even when the lactic, acidic, or alkalidic chemicals cannot. Pleasure can be experienced with no reference to pain. Even if it can't, surely a god with infinite intelligence and power could make it so. The slightest bit of scrutiny causes your arguments to fall apart.

You are a slave...but what's even worse is you are happy to be a slave.

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