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Foedus-Stamps — Feminism
Published: 2012-01-31 20:33:58 +0000 UTC; Views: 6132; Favourites: 190; Downloads: 19
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See, I don't mind feminists, not at all, but then there are the god damn women who wail rape or sexual harassment the moment something doesn't go their way. Another thing that I absolutely hate, is when they do it to get someone fired.I worked with a girl who constantly whined sexual harassment to the manager to get people fired. She did this 12 times before the Manager caught on that she was doing it to people in her department so she'd get more hours. She was fired, and immediately whined that the manager tried to rape her. He quite blatantly told authorities that he was happily in a civil union with his partner of 10 years, and wouldn't touch her with a radiation suit on.
There's feminism, and then there's this bullshit. It's half the reason why I don't respect women as much as I should, yet I'm the kind of person that will only give respect to those who proved themselves to me. Sounds a bit concieted, but it's the only way I trust people, both men and women.
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Comments: 514
I mean what I said: You made nothing more than an empty claim, and therefore one without any merit whatsoever, and you're hypocritical.
Slam, bam, thank you, ma'am.
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"ur a liar, slam bam WHAM you cant deny THIS empty claim man I am a genus"
I see I must take you with the UTMOST seriousness
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You might not know this, but the feminist movement greatly struggles dealing with the few feminists who hate all men and treat them all like rapists, who think rape of males is unimportant, and who generally think women are better than men. Those "feminists" are problems not just because they make the rest of us look bad, but because their view is skewed and they're just being assholes , and the greater feminist community is attempting to correct it by (attempting) to talk some sense into them and informing everyone else that such individuals should be ignored.
The reason it's called 'feminism' is because it is the societal stigma against women that causes problems for both sexes. . Men who show any sign of humanity is considered weak. Any man who is hurt at the hands of a woman is considered pathetic. That's sad, and it needs to stop.
Feminists are trying to create equality for both sexes. Anything that hurts women hurts men too. While I can't speak for all feminists, I can say that personally I don't think male rape is less important "because womb." While rape of females has a potential to cause even more emotional damage if pregnancy occurs, rape has the same emotional effects on both sexes , but you are right in that much of society doesn't care if a guy gets raped. They think he "got lucky" or should be thankful. Feminists are the people who are trying to stop that. Men are not our enemy. We want to work with men so we can both achieve the same means: ending negative societal pressure based solely on the basis of gender.
I do want to point out a few bits of wisdom you stated, as well as some factual errors. “And yet both NAFALT and NAWALT (Not All Feminists/Women Are Like That) are things. Hypocritical much?” You are right in this respect: some in our numbers are certainly not the type of individuals I would want to associate with, even though they identify as a feminist like I do. There is no excusing that. We are actively trying to correct the problem. “Society doesn't give two shits about men. Society sees men as simple tools to be discarded when broken, too worn, or when sacrifices need to be made.” Yeah. Society in general doesn’t care about anybody. The women are sexualized objects to be used, and men are utilitarian objects to be used. It sucks.
As for your “It's not my job to prove to you or anyone else that I'm not gonna rape someone” statement, this link might help clear things up: x Also, what elite are you actually talking about who are supposibly lineing their pockets? It’s not like feminism is a merchandise commodity, and even now only a small percentage of CEO’s are women, and they had to climb their way to the top to get there (and no, not through sex or workplace manipulation, but because they are the best for the job. They had a glass ceiling to break and dammit they did.)
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"You might not know this, but the feminist movement greatly struggles dealing with the few feminists who hate all men and treat them all like rapists, who think rape of males is unimportant, and who generally think women are better than men. Those "feminists" are problems not just because they make the rest of us look bad, but because their view is skewed and they're just being assholes , and the greater feminist community is attempting to correct it by (attempting) to talk some sense into them and informing everyone else that such individuals should be ignored."
No, you don't. All you do is cry NAFALT and call anyone who disagrees with you misogynistic. And even if you did, what of it? Feminism has a much deeper problem than extremists, even if those extremists are the one's driving the movement and getting shit done while "real" feminists like you just sit on your ass crying NAFALT.
"The reason it's called 'feminism' is because it is the societal stigma against women that causes problems for both sexes. . Men who show any sign of humanity is considered weak. Any man who is hurt at the hands of a woman is considered pathetic. That's sad, and it needs to stop."
The problem with Feminism however, is the fact of where the ideology says gender inequality came about, i.e. men did it. This makes no sense, considering that men face any sort of discrimination to begin with, the least important of which is what you mentioned.
"Feminists are trying to create equality for both sexes. Anything that hurts women hurts men too. While I can't speak for all feminists, I can say that personally I don't think male rape is less important "because womb." While rape of females has a potential to cause even more emotional damage if pregnancy occurs, rape has the same emotional effects on both sexes , but you are right in that much of society doesn't care if a guy gets raped. They think he "got lucky" or should be thankful. Feminists are the people who are trying to stop that. Men are not our enemy. We want to work with men so we can both achieve the same means: ending negative societal pressure based solely on the basis of gender."
By reframing every issue men face into issues for women, as if a problem is only worthy of attention if it affects women. Niiiiiiiice.
"Yeah. Society in general doesn’t care about anybody. The women are sexualized objects to be used, and men are utilitarian objects to be used. It sucks."
But it sucks for women more, so we should only pay attention to their problems. Men's problems will magically disappear when we solve women's problems anyways!
"As for your “It's not my job to prove to you or anyone else that I'm not gonna rape someone” statement, this link might help clear things up: x"
Apply that "logic" to "Hide the silver!" and let's see how far you get.
"Also, what elite are you actually talking about who are supposibly lineing their pockets? It’s not like feminism is a merchandise commodity, and even now only a small percentage of CEO’s are women, and they had to climb their way to the top to get there (and no, not through sex or workplace manipulation, but because they are the best for the job. They had a glass ceiling to break and dammit they did.)"
First off, that "glass ceiling" isn't a social construct, it's life. Life is unfair, and anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something.
Something like a video series about "sexist tropes" in video games which didn't require any funding whatsoever and yet the creator scored $160,000 through donations, despite the fact that she has yet to produce what she promised. And no matter how much evidence is pointed out, thousands of feminists and white knights will defend her to their dying breath (or their last keystroke), claiming her opposition to be misogynistic. I guess 'cause it's easier to simply shit on others than admit you got conned so hard.
How's that for an example?
"There is no denying that the feminist community has it's flaws and downfalls, and even in our goal of achieving equality for both sexes, we sometimes fail. However, we are trying. Dammit, we are trying."
No, no you're not. You don't even know what the problem is, and therefore you can't even hope to solve it.
But hey, I'm just a filthy, disgusting, misogynistic motherfucker out to oppress women, so why listen to me?
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You're not a ahem "filthy, disgusting, misogynistic motherfucker out to oppress women" but you are damn stupid.
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Coming from someone with absolutely nothing to back themselves up.
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It's backed up by every comment you made???? Lol.
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Doesn't work that way. You can't just say all my comments back your argument, you have to point out the specific elements of said comments and provide evidence and/or reasoning to support your claim. Otherwise, it's just an empty claim that no one should take seriously.
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Ok, random deviantart user, I'll point out all the ways you are stupid, just as requested.
The definition of stupid we are going by is: intractable, unreasonable, nonsensical arguments and circular reasoning besides sources.
She said: “It's not my job to prove to you or anyone else that I'm not gonna rape someone” statement, this link might help clear things up: x "
You said: Apply that "logic" to "Hide the silver!" and let's see how far you get.
The logic, put in quotes to indicate it is apparently imaginary logic , is that 'you don't know if a man is going to be a rapist or not.' This statement is impossible to apply to "hide the silver." That doesn't make any sense.
Stupid.
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"Yeah. Society in general doesn’t care about anybody. The women are sexualized objects to be used, and men are utilitarian objects to be used. It sucks."
But it sucks for women more, so we should only pay attention to their problems. Men's problems will magically disappear when we solve women's problems anyways!
This is incredibly smug and self-satisfied. Solving women's problems will not hurt men whatsoever. and it WOULD help men, like making rape and abuse of men more serious issues apparent. Demanding compensation for NOTICING sexist behavior is incredibly stupid.
Also, when a woman mentions a problem, suddenly derailing it to a MENS problem because you feel left out also don't cause women's problems to magically disappear. Circular logic!!! You are determined to be a lazy asshole.
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By reframing every issue men face into issues for women, as if a problem is only worthy of attention if it affects women. Niiiiiiiice.
Uh no, but when you talk about poverty in america, you don't talk about poverty in Kenya too. It's terrible, but off topic. You're not actually talking about the problem, you keep shiftin git to another subject.
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First off, that "glass ceiling" isn't a social construct, it's life. Life is unfair, and anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something.
JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL MORONIC MENINIST ON THE MOVE
first of all, you somehow tried to argue this point with a platitude, as if that was any sort of reason. 'life is unfair?' yeah well 'men are from jupiter and women are from venus' but yet, nothing is proved. because it is a made up phrase.
Glass ceiling is sexist. It refers to the difficulty women have in movingup the corporate ladder. If the difference is in a immutable and historically discriminated trait like gender, then it is also wrong and a relic of a different time. And the only reason you're so satisfied and complacent about it is because it doesn't affect you. Unbelievable. This is really fucking stupid, of course it's societal! Are you trying to imply that women are genetically predisposed to lower jobs in the workplace? Because that would be mysogyny.
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No, you don't. All you do is cry NAFALT and call anyone who disagrees with you misogynistic. And even if you did, what of it? Feminism has a much deeper problem than extremists, even if those extremists are the one's driving the movement and getting shit done while "real" feminists like you just sit on your ass crying NAFALT.
This is like your catchall response.
Well, feminism also benefits men. NO IT DOESNT NAFALT NAFALT NAFALT RUB IT ON MY NIPPLES
Well, feminism is a movement that- NAFALT
I say the sky is blue NOPE YOU DONT LALALA I DONT BELIEVE YOU NAFAKT.
the rest of the reasoning is just plain circular. Extremists call enemies mysogynist. Extremist drive the movement. The problem of the movement is the extremist. The problem is driving forward. Feminism is imaginary. Actually, NAFALT NAFALT.
W-what?
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Ur obsession w sarkeesian implies that she somehow benefits from the hundered of death threats and moving of houses for a bit of money. Is this your great feminist threat?
Funny how when I think of reasons for feminism, I think of Elliot Rodger , Adam Lanza , Anders Breivik , George Sodini , Gary Ridgway , and Marc Lépine , and you think of reasons against feminism, you think of a random you tuber who expressed opinions about video games that may have hurt your feelings.
A dumb reason to end an entire movement, check.
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"There is no denying that the feminist community has it's flaws and downfalls, and even in our goal of achieving equality for both sexes, we sometimes fail. However, we are trying. Dammit, we are trying."
No, no you're not. You don't even know what the problem is, and therefore you can't even hope to solve it.
There it is again! "Feminism is trying" NO YOUR NOT NAFALLLT THE WORLD WILL END U CANT SOLVE ANYTHING BECAUSE I SAID SO
Damn! You must be god, because if you don't say it is, it must not be!!! Stupidity right there. Essentializing and black and white reasoning, guilt by association, ad homineim, the 'magic wand' fallacy 'it can't be done', overgeneralization, etc. A lot of reifying, declaring feminists a monolithic entity that hates meNAFALT /cough, repeating yourself in the belief it proves your point, an incredibly moronic use of tu quoque (two wrongs make a right).
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"The logic, put in quotes to indicate it is apparently imaginary logic , is that 'you don't know if a man is going to be a rapist or not.' This statement is impossible to apply to "hide the silver." That doesn't make any sense."
It seems you don't know what I meant by "Hide the silver". White people often said this way back when because they assumed that black people who steal from them. So yes, it does apply.
"This is incredibly smug and self-satisfied."
Which I will gladly refute in the following sentences, because you really misunderstand a lot of what I said (your previous argument being a prime example). Whether that's from bigotry or just plain ignorance is irrelevant, but my guess is on the former.
"Solving women's problems will not hurt men whatsoever. and it WOULD help men, like making rape and abuse of men more serious issues apparent."
Depends on how you go about it. If you try to solve women's problems the way Feminism has been doing, then it will hurt men, never help them, and try to sweep the rape and abuse of men under the rug, like it's always been doing.
"Demanding compensation for NOTICING sexist behavior is incredibly stupid."
This is relevant, how?
"Also, when a woman mentions a problem, suddenly derailing it to a MENS problem because you feel left out also don't cause women's problems to magically disappear. Circular logic!!! You are determined to be a lazy asshole."
That's called reframing the issue. Which is what Feminism constantly does with men's issues, reframing them to make them women's issues. And then there's this comment of yours...
And you call me stupid.
"Uh no, but when you talk about poverty in america, you don't talk about poverty in Kenya too. It's terrible, but off topic. You're not actually talking about the problem, you keep shiftin git to another subject."
Oh! So when I point out that Feminism reframes issues, I'm just derailing. How hypocritical and bigoted.
"JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL MORONIC MENINIST ON THE MOVE"
You do realize that menism is just satire, right?
"first of all, you somehow tried to argue this point with a platitude, as if that was any sort of reason. 'life is unfair?' yeah well 'men are from jupiter and women are from venus' but yet, nothing is proved. because it is a made up phrase."
Life is unfair. If you don't wanna believe that, then I'll let Nostalgia Critic take it away .
"Glass ceiling is sexist."
It would be if it was real.
"It refers to the difficulty women have in movingup the corporate ladder. If the difference is in a immutable and historically discriminated trait like gender, then it is also wrong and a relic of a different time."
No, it's simple biology. Women can get pregnant and legally demand for paid leave for several months if they do. From the perspective of a business, that means a potential large expense. Men do not have this sort of risk, so when comparing a man and woman of equal credentials...
"And the only reason you're so satisfied and complacent about it is because it doesn't affect you. Unbelievable. This is really fucking stupid, of course it's societal! Are you trying to imply that women are genetically predisposed to lower jobs in the workplace? Because that would be mysogyny."
Nothing more than empty claims and an appeal to emotions, so I'm not going to dignify this with a response.
"This is like your catchall response."
Doesn't make it any less true, so what does it matter? Also, a little food for thought: If pointing out the hypocrisy of a feminist crying NAFALT and in the same breath point out "Not all men" are derailments is my catcall response, then what does that say about feminists?
"Well, feminism also benefits men. NO IT DOESNT NAFALT NAFALT NAFALT RUB IT ON MY NIPPLES
Well, feminism is a movement that- NAFALT
I say the sky is blue NOPE YOU DONT LALALA I DONT BELIEVE YOU NAFAKT.
the rest of the reasoning is just plain circular. Extremists call enemies mysogynist. Extremist drive the movement. The problem of the movement is the extremist. The problem is driving forward. Feminism is imaginary. Actually, NAFALT NAFALT.
W-what?"
Define irony: You call me stupid, then you demonstrate how you clearly don't understand what my arguments.
"Ur obsession w sarkeesian implies that she somehow benefits from the hundered of death threats and moving of houses for a bit of money. Is this your great feminist threat?
Funny how when I think of reasons for feminism, I think of Elliot Rodger , Adam Lanza , Anders Breivik , George Sodini , Gary Ridgway , and Marc Lépine , and you think of reasons against feminism, you think of a random you tuber who expressed opinions about video games that may have hurt your feelings.
A dumb reason to end an entire movement, check."
You do realize that Anita was a single example, right? The one who I was responding to was asking for an example of what I meant, so I gave them one.
Also, it's funny how Feminism focuses on violence done to women, despite the fact that men suffer more violence overall. Really shows you it's priorities, doesn't it?
"There it is again! "Feminism is trying" NO YOUR NOT NAFALLLT THE WORLD WILL END U CANT SOLVE ANYTHING BECAUSE I SAID SO
Damn! You must be god, because if you don't say it is, it must not be!!! Stupidity right there. Essentializing and black and white reasoning, guilt by association, ad homineim, the 'magic wand' fallacy 'it can't be done', overgeneralization, etc. A lot of reifying, declaring feminists a monolithic entity that hates meNAFALT /cough, repeating yourself in the belief it proves your point, an incredibly moronic use of tu quoque (two wrongs make a right)."
Yet another example of misunderstanding my argument. If you weren't so bigoted/moronic, you might've noticed this bit of reasoning: feminists don't know what the problem actually is and therefore can't solve it.
You can't solve a problem that you don't know/constantly deny, and since Feminism does both to the problem, it can't solve it. Just simple logic.
Although, to be perfectly honest, I don't think you're capable of understanding that, whether it be from bigotry or idiocy. But either way, I'm done with you. Unless you come to me with different material, I'm not replying to any more of your comments.
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Ok, there seems to be some sort of basic logic here you don't seem to comprehend.
"Feminism focuses on violence on women." Yes, that certainly is ONE of it's aims. Lessening the societal stereotypes that encourage violence on women.
This in no way hurts men, despite what your "BECUZ I SAY SO" argument implies. Name ONE way lessening violence on women hurts men. Why are you so determined to be injured by this, this is so ridiculous. Dismissing an entire movement because you dont wike someone is petty. Generalizing from one example is a logical fallacy.
Also, the main point::: "Reframing the issue" to focus on men. Why??? That is NOT the subject of conversation! Feminism IS focused on women, because they are the house on fire!! Whenever this is pointed out to you, you literally say "well MEN have MORE problems, please focus on MEN. WHATS THAT YOU SAY WOMEN HAVE PROBLEMS I DONT EXPERIENCE??? WELL YOU MUST BE FUCKING LYING!!! THIS RESEARCH???? FAAKE. GOV CONSPIRACY. WHINY FEMALES. NOTHING IS REAL EXCEPT MY ROILING MANPAIN I REFUSE TO TALK ABOUR YOUR PROBLEMS WHICH ARE IN FACT IMAGINARY IN FAVOR OF THESE OTHER RANDOM PROBLEMS I WILL NOW BRING UP. WHY ARENT YOU TALKING ABOUT THISS HMMMMM? CHECK AND MATE."
It's ridiculous! It's like busting into a government committee on finances for an entire country to talk about foreign policy. "Why are you talking about-" "HEY MONEY SOMETIMES GOES INTO FOREIGN POLICY AND OCCASSIONALLY IS RELEVANT AND MONEY IS FINANCES AND YOURE FINANCES PLEASE LETS TALK ABOUT ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY NOW" "No, we are actually focusing on" "GODDAMN ARE YOU DISSING ME????? MAN I HATE YOU FOREVER- FOR TALKING ABOUT FINANCES-- WHICH I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT-- FINANCE IS ANOTHER NAME FOR FOREIGN POLICY RIGHT LETS TALK ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY---"
"This is finances actually, it's different-"
"WOW I DONT UNDERSTAND FOREIGN POLICY NOW PLZ"
This is impossible! You keep trying to change the subject???? Then declare any reasons you are wrong IMAGINARY regardless of ancedotes, studies, the fact this is agreed on by almost every woman who has in real life experienced such issues, REALITY AND STATISTICS ARE YOU SERIOUS YOU MORON, history, which does in fact have an impact on the present, and will jump to any extreme to declare '''''female femenists''''' the devil out to get your soul. Wtf?
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Oh hey! Missed you there. Why do you keep posting youtube comments as replies? You might as well save the servers valuable storage space and just not reply.
Alas, you are braindead.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=j15cyO…
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ah, another link from the incommodious waste of space known as Crapcrap. This is what the comments section was made for. Crapcrap, as your god-given title suggests, you are full of crap. Keep going strong.
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You do realize I stopped taken you seriously at least a month ago, right?
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You do realize I never took you seriously at all, you freakin moron?
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You're the one who supposedly never took me seriously, despite the fact that you're the one who came to me. So yeah, not buying that one bit.
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In case you haven't noticed, this is an internet comment board on devianart, where communication regrettably takes only a unthoughtful click of a mouse.
You were like "yeah dem lying women lying all the time whats with that"
and I said, "that's a pretty dumb statement and also derailment"
and you went OFF THE RAILS like almost vomiting in shock at all that reasonableness it was kind of exasperating to watch
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So you say, which means nothing at this point.
Now, if you're gonna continue with this non-substance, I'll take my leave.
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Okay, I'm just gonna slide quietly out of the room because at this point you're just being a fucking troll. You are just spinning everything I write to fit your own world view. Even when I'm AGREEING with you, you are like "oh no, but consider THIS: this isn't REALLY how you feel." Fuck you, you can't tell me how I feel about shit, you aren't a fucking psychoanalyst. I am seeing your point of view and showing where I concur, and if I happen to agree with you on something, you just flat out deny that is my opinion and invalidate it by saying "oh, but woman's issues are more important, huh? HUH?". That isn't what I am saying, I have not once said that women's issues are more important. I have blatantly said that I FEEL BOTH GENDER'S ISSUES ARE IMPORTANT. Just because I am focusing on the issues of one gender does not mean I don't recognize the importance of the issues of the other, am uninterested in learning more about those issues, or that I am blaming or hating on the other gender as a whole. Just as you focusing on men's issues doesn't mean you are invalidating the issues of females. However, you are trying to brush off those advocating for solving the issues women face, like myself, and that close-mindedness isn't going to help anyone. This isn't even "your view vs. my view" anymore, you're making it into "my view vs. you as a person." Remember: AD HOMINEM IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.
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"Okay, I'm just gonna slide quietly out of the room because at this point you're just being a fucking troll."
Yes, that'll do it. When you're losing, just say how the opposition is trolling you.
"You are just spinning everything I write to fit your own world view."
Whatever helps you sleep better at night.
"Even when I'm AGREEING with you, you are like "oh no, but consider THIS: this isn't REALLY how you feel." Fuck you, you can't tell me how I feel about shit, you aren't a fucking psychoanalyst. I am seeing your point of view and showing where I concur, and if I happen to agree with you on something, you just flat out deny that is my opinion and invalidate it by saying "oh, but woman's issues are more important, huh? HUH?". That isn't what I am saying, I have not once said that women's issues are more important. I have blatantly said that I FEEL BOTH GENDER'S ISSUES ARE IMPORTANT. Just because I am focusing on the issues of one gender does not mean I don't recognize the importance of the issues of the other, am uninterested in learning more about those issues, or that I am blaming or hating on the other gender as a whole. Just as you focusing on men's issues doesn't mean you are invalidating the issues of females."
You have called yourself a feminist, that means you believe in the ideology that deems men to have undue privilege and women are oppressed by a system created by men. Obviously, it doesn't make sense that men would even face discrimination at all, for that would mean that men purposely discriminated against themselves.
I'm not psychoanalyzing you, I'm merely calling you out on your shit. There is a clear contradiction between your beliefs and that of Feminism's ideology. So either you are simply not a feminist, or you need to edit your beliefs so that it aligns with Feminism. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.
The main thing I'm trying to get at here is: Feminism is not the way, it never was, and it never will be.
"However, you are trying to brush off those advocating for solving the issues women face, like myself, and that close-mindedness isn't going to help anyone."
No, I just don't ally myself with idiots, hypocrites, or sexists. Unfortunately, that's all three flavors of feminists (you're the hypocrite flavor, if you were curious).
"This isn't even "your view vs. my view" anymore, you're making it into "my view vs. you as a person." Remember: AD HOMINEM IS NOT AN ARGUMENT."
Wow, you're a hypocrite in other ways, I see. Also, if you're gonna make big comments like that, space it out a little next time. White space is your friend.
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Feminism doesn't believe that men have undue privilege, but that women do not have the same privileges that men have always enjoyed, both legally and socially. It's not that men SHOULD privileges they have, because that is what all human beings should have, but that women should have them too. Giving others privileges you have always enjoyed does not take away those privileges from you. I believe that women should be given the same rights as men and have the same social standing, which is the exact definition of feminism. My beliefs are not contradictory in any sense.
And just to be clear, I have listened to your arguments and try to see where you were coming from even when I didn't agree and thought it was bullshit, acknowledging when you did have a good point, as well as respectfully disagreeing where appropriate. I have not attacked you as a person (I think you have a massive misunderstanding of feminism, but that is not a fault on you as a person per say unless you are blatantly sexist, which I do not believe that you are from what I have read in your comments.) However, you have not returned the favor to me.
So, a question for you: how do you propose that we solve the issues women face simply for being female? Instead of arguing the validity of feminism, how about you answer me that?
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"Feminism doesn't believe that men have undue privilege, but that women do not have the same privileges that men have always enjoyed, both legally and socially. It's not that men SHOULD privileges they have, because that is what all human beings should have, but that women should have them too. Giving others privileges you have always enjoyed does not take away those privileges from you. I believe that women should be given the same rights as men and have the same social standing, which is the exact definition of feminism."
Semantics.
"My beliefs are not contradictory in any sense."
Refuted.
"And just to be clear, I have listened to your arguments and try to see where you were coming from even when I didn't agree and thought it was bullshit, acknowledging when you did have a good point, as well as respectfully disagreeing where appropriate. I have not attacked you as a person (I think you have a massive misunderstanding of feminism, but that is not a fault on you as a person per say unless you are blatantly sexist, which I do not believe that you are from what I have read in your comments.) However, you have not returned the favor to me."
I'm under no obligation to. I don't respect scum or idiots.
"So, a question for you: how do you propose that we solve the issues women face simply for being female? Instead of arguing the validity of feminism, how about you answer me that?"
Understand the problem first, then go about solving it, duh.
So what is the problem? Simply put: Because womb. Women are our species reproductive limiters. As a result, ever since the Stone Age women's lives have been prioritized. They were kept in the safety of the home because they were essential for humanity's survival back in the days where we didn't have vast numbers or advanced technology. Societies that existed without this paradigm are no longer with us, which means we have literally evolved this instinct to protect and provide for women.
However, this instinct has unfortunate consequences: Women are not taken as seriously for STEM or other careers, they're valued for their beauty above all else, and all other forms of discrimination against them. That's why Feminism exists the way it does now, because of this discrimination and our biological instincts to protect and provide for women. And that's the real problem with Feminism: it is literally a part of gender inequality.
That's why the first step to solving gender inequality is to abolish Feminism. After that, we need to acknowledge our biological instinct and reject it, for it has no relevance in the world as it stands.
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If your idea of being "prioritized" and "protected" is being kept in the home for the sole purpose of raising children, with little or no opportunity to realize one's own human potential, than yes, you are absolutely correct.
However, this system is, like you yourself stated, is oppressive and has unfortunate consequences.
Your implications that feminism is part of an instinct to protect woman also implies that women want to protect themselves by sheltering themselves from the world, because according to you that is how the whole of the human race, male and female, evolved to do instinctually.
If that is true, why is feminism all about empowering women so they can be on equal footing with men? Why do feminists not want to be confined to the home, feel torn between work and family, or feel afraid when they go out at night? Yes, women want to protect themselves, like any human being, but it has nothing to do with their wombs. It has to do with all human beings being in control of our lives and bodies.
And for the record, your idea that humanity has evolved to protect women specifically is flawed.
First, I am assuming you know how biology works? And how it takes both sexes to produce babies? If you seem confused on that you should probably return to high school health class.
Second, all humans, including women who you claim to be prioritized above all else, have the instinct to protect people other then themselves: the Maternal Instinct, which extends to not only children, but family, friends, and anyone else who could be considered "kin." Men have this instinct too, of course. They will fiercely protect their wives and children. In a conventional, heteronormative relationship, the man is expected to be the protector/provider, and the woman to be the nurturer/caretaker. However, there are many heterosexual relationships where gender roles have been reversed, not to mention homosexual coupleships. While there are some biological factors, the fact that people assume the heteronormative model is the biological norm is largely cultural.
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"If your idea of being "prioritized" and "protected" is being kept in the home for the sole purpose of raising children, with little or no opportunity to realize one's own human potential, than yes, you are absolutely correct."
Correction: Not my idea, society's idea. Just wanted to clarify that.
"However, this system is, like you yourself stated, is oppressive and has unfortunate consequences."
No shit Sherlock, that's my point! That's been my point all along.
"Your implications that feminism is part of an instinct to protect woman also implies that women want to protect themselves by sheltering themselves from the world, because according to you that is how the whole of the human race, male and female, evolved to do instinctually.
If that is true, why is feminism all about empowering women so they can be on equal footing with men?"
That's the thing: it's not. Feminism wants to give women agency, but not the accountability to go with it. See, while women had strictly limited agency, their accountability was equally limited. If they did wrong, their husbands were usually punished or they got a relative slap on the wrist. This is why you see women serving less time for the same crimes and not filling up prisons as much as men do, despite having as much of a capacity for viciousness and depravity (or are you going to argue that all women are absolute angels? Wouldn't be the first time I've heard it).
So yes, while Feminism wants to empower women to be on the same equal footing, it also strives to keep their lack of accountability. This leads back into providing for women. Society wants to give what women want, and since they ask for agency, they get it at no cost.
If Feminism was truly for gender equality, it would give both agency and accountability in equal measure to that of men.
"Why do feminists not want to be confined to the home"
Personal reasons. Some do, some don't. It's natural, especially to want something you don't have. This is irrelevant.
"feel torn between work and family"
Because they want both but they usually can't have both. Gender roles dictate that women have family and men have work. Again, irrelevant.
Also, work is going to be irrelevant in the coming years as well. Automation's coming, and it'll soak up all the jobs with it. Assuming that we can find a decent solution to the immense lack of job availability, no one will have to make such a hard decision.
"or feel afraid when they go out at night?"
Bogus statistics mostly. Feminism constantly tells women that they're in danger of rape all the time. They perpetuate the rape culture myth (and yes, it is a myth, no amount of propaganda is gonna make it fact), so of course they feel afraid, they're told to be afraid.
And this actually supports the whole nation of gender roles. Society instinctively protects women, and if they're victims of a rape culture, well then, gotta save 'em, huh?
"Yes, women want to protect themselves, like any human being, but it has nothing to do with their wombs. It has to do with all human beings being in control of our lives and bodies."
And society wants to protect and provide for women because they're our species reproductive limiters. So yes, it is because womb. Sorry, but your previous list of reasons proved that more than refuted it.
"And for the record, your idea that humanity has evolved to protect women specifically is flawed.
First, I am assuming you know how biology works? And how it takes both sexes to produce babies? If you seem confused on that you should probably return to high school health class."
No, you're the one who needs to be schooled, so sit down, honey.
There are two groups: A and B. A has 9 men and 1 woman. B has 1 man and 9 women. All else being equal, which group has the best chances of survival?
If you answered B, you'd be correct! Why? Because B has a far greater potential for the next generation, and there's the crux: Only women limit reproduction. A single man can impregnate several women at a time, but generally only one child is coming out of a woman at a time.
Also, given the fact that men tend to be much stronger and have more endurance, you can easily see why men are tasked with the dangerous work: they tend to be more fit for it, and you don't need as many of them anyway.
"Second, all humans, including women who you claim to be prioritized above all else, have the instinct to protect people other then themselves: the Maternal Instinct, which extends to not only children, but family, friends, and anyone else who could be considered "kin." Men have this instinct too, of course. They will fiercely protect their wives and children."
Mostly to children, though. In fact, it pretty much concerns itself with children, really. The rest is basic human empathy.
Even so, my point is more about general populations than individuals. Sure, most people are generally nice and protective, but when sacrifices need to be made, it's the men who fill it because they're more expendable.
"In a conventional, heteronormative relationship, the man is expected to be the protector/provider, and the woman to be the nurturer/caretaker. However, there are many heterosexual relationships where gender roles have been reversed, not to mention homosexual coupleships."
Exceptions that prove the rule and nothing more.
"While there are some biological factors, the fact that people assume the heteronormative model is the biological norm is largely cultural."
No, it's biological. No two ways around it.
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I say don't expect a feminist to not be a hypocrite.
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I don't expect anything from MRAs, and I'm never disappointed.
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Seriously I am not going to reply after this so have your tempertantrum else where dear.
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Me neither, but I just can't help pointing it out to them.
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I admit their responses can be funny.
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MRAs never are funny, but they always think they are.
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I honestly don't find mass murder of men and boys ass funny so I am glad that you don't find me funny.
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Uh.... huh..................
what in the world are you talking about.
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You're so good at being a feminist you know nothing about it congrats that is funny.
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I know you love strawmanning so hard you're fucking it daily.
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Do you know what a straw man fallacy even is, dear?
Edit: troll blocked me, unable to handle the heat so he ran out of the kitchen. So here is my response, my sweet innocent summer child, of whom the world is cruel to ceaselessly, you poor victim where everyone is out to 'get you' and where nothing is your fault:
Er, I really think you need to look up the definition of straw man fallacy, actually. Straw feminism is bad. You are the one making straw feminism out to be real feminism. Capiche?
Your responses are all hysterical and don't even make any sense!
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Yes sweetie now run along and keep making straw feminism actual feminism. You need to go find some other man to bitch at I owe you nothing and will give you nothing.
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Sure, it's not shocking that there is allegedly a person who misused a rule like this.
But I bet there are a lot more women who get harassed at work and never report it, or who get report it and it continues.
But come on, this seems like a cheap reason to attack feminists.
And if you don't respect women because of what one woman did, that's pretty messed up, don't you think?
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What? I suppose the 41,000 people on all collective #killallmen website are just the same account, right? I guess those people are Anita Sarkeesian who thinks VIDEO GAMES are oppressing her. Or the Feminithiest on YouTube. But that contradicts itself doesn't it. Did you know that there was this body positive feminist harassing this group of African-American men on YouTube because they were telling people male rape victims exist. She was arrested 1 and a half hours after she started and the police were there the entire time. The women was punching and slapping the men, and when they pushed her everyone was like
"Omg I had no idea black men were so cruel! Fml for that!" "Its not fair that she got arrested for harassment!"
These men tried walking away but this retard kept following.
No I suppose that these people are all one person with makeup on, alright.
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Ok, if you're gonna be like that, let's have some more serial killers with manifestos declaring women killable because they FOR SOME STRANGE REASON did not want to date him.
Lol, are we doing the oppression olympics thing? Does this make you feel better at night?
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Ugh, maybe you should stay on topic. Did I say that? No I didn't.
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Agreed, this kind of vitcimhood tactics and inability to deal with criticism is just Feminists using the very damsel in distress trope they claim to hate for their own agenda, which hypocrites.
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