Comments: 41
ksdinoboy95 [2012-05-26 21:08:34 +0000 UTC]
this is beautifull work!I write paleo/sci-fi so I see all kinds and this is outstanding work!please contact me?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to ksdinoboy95 [2012-05-29 11:14:59 +0000 UTC]
Thanks - with so few Australian theropods, they need all the publicity they can get!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Paleodon [2012-05-07 21:29:08 +0000 UTC]
Excuse me, but one isolated bone does not provide sufficient anatomical data for an Australian ceratosaur - or any dinosaur for that matter. There's been many examples of dinosaurs classified by a few or only one bone, only to turn out wrong or to remain nomen dubium. There's been a lot of such claims from single bones found in Australia, especially by the Richs. While their claims are not impossible, a simpler explanation is convergant evolution. Some dinosaur group (or groups) native to Gondwana gave rise to dinos adapted to lifestyles similar to the more familiar Laurasian ones. Why not? Australia is famous for the same thing with marsupials. Why not with dinosaurs in a pretty much isolated Australia, even back then? Until a more complete skeleton is found, I'm sticking with that idea, instead of trashing current ideas of dinosaur emigration.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Boverisuchus In reply to Paleodon [2012-05-11 04:46:57 +0000 UTC]
Primitive ceratosaurs, dromeosaurs, ceratopsians, "hypsilophodontids", ornithomimids, oviraptorosaurs, all were present when Laurasia was still connected to Gondwana in the early-mid jurassic, hence they must have gone for the ride when the 2 superconitinents separated. That is obviously why they are present in Australia, because they got there early, and only changed marginally by the early cretaceous.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Gogosardina In reply to Paleodon [2012-05-08 08:48:55 +0000 UTC]
Errr, your data is in error.
Firstly, although the Riches are tacked on as last authors, primary research and writing for the manuscript was conducted by Matt Carrano (curator of dinosaurs at the Smithsonian Institution and theropod expert) and Erich Fitzgerald. The Riches oversaw the field collecting and preparation, but had nothing to do with the taxonomic determination of this specimen.
Secondly, it is widely recognised that astragali *are* diagnostic in different groups of theropods. The only theropods that have an intimately fused astragalocalcaneum are ceratosaurians and paravians. But, no paravian has a tall plate-like ascending astragalar process - but all ceratosaurs do. When I first saw the specimen I was struck by its similarity to that Masiakasaurus and Xenotarsosaurus.
Thirdly, how is identifying a specimen as a ceratosaur indicative of "familiar Laurasian" chauvanism? Cretaceous Gondwana is FULL of ceratosaurians (in South America, India, Africa and Madgascar) so we'd expect them in Australia, while there are hardly any ceratosaurs in Laurasia (just a few European abelisaurs). The paper alludes to similarities between the Victorian specimen and Elaphrosaurus plus Deltadromeus, both African (ie. Gondwanan) ceratosaurs.
Fourthly - since when was Mesozoic Australia isolated? It simply a lump of eastern Antarctica that did not acheive full separation until the Eocene - thus the Australian biota did not start "going its own way" until after the Cretaceous.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Gogosardina In reply to jennovazombie [2012-05-08 08:56:24 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, shes going to a "bring-your-own-dromaeosaur chick" party.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Boverisuchus In reply to Gogosardina [2012-05-11 04:39:27 +0000 UTC]
"I'm here for the potluck" As LOLcats once said.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
jennovazombie In reply to Gogosardina [2012-05-08 17:08:11 +0000 UTC]
Sounds like great fun!
"I caught this dromaeosaur chick myself, you know. That's why I didn't have time to get cleaned up for our tea!"
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
Gogosardina In reply to JWArtwork [2012-05-08 08:53:32 +0000 UTC]
My hunch is that it is a noasaur, or at least a basal abelisauroid. The analyses in the paper give it a possible kinship to Elaphrosaurus or Deltadromeus (which are resolved as nesting withing Abelisauroidea) although, being based on a lone foot-bone, I'd take this with a grain of salt.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to JWArtwork [2012-05-09 06:24:16 +0000 UTC]
>primitive Masiakasaurus relative...
Thats what I was aiming for when conceptualising this critter.
>By the way, were there any dromaeosaurs found in Australia?
Numerous dromaeosaurid teeth have been recovered from Flat Rocks. Some workers have tentatively proposed that Timimus is an unenlagiine dromaeosaur but, after a conversation with Paul Barrett, I've convinced its something else.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Brad-ysaurus [2012-05-07 14:53:17 +0000 UTC]
Looks a little like Harryhausen's Rhedosaurus.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to Brad-ysaurus [2012-05-08 08:51:30 +0000 UTC]
Yeah... it was refreshing to do an "old school" theropod without all those annoying feathers.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
fractalfiend [2012-05-07 12:47:48 +0000 UTC]
Stunningly beautiful! Great work!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to fractalfiend [2012-05-08 08:54:20 +0000 UTC]
Many thanks - there are so few Australian dinosaurs, much less predatory ones, so I decided to give him the full treatment!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
SpongeBobFossilPants [2012-05-07 10:52:19 +0000 UTC]
I don't believe this is the first Australian ceratosaur; Ozraptor was probably one.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to SpongeBobFossilPants [2012-05-07 11:06:22 +0000 UTC]
The Victorian specimen is the first *definative* Aussie ceratosaur based on hard anatomical data. At present there is nothing else it could be.
The Ozraptor tibia hardly provides the same degree of diagnostic information and subsequent researchers have failed to find strong support for Rauhut's abelisauroid classification. Its effectively an indeterminate neotheropod.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
ashimbabbar [2012-05-07 10:31:49 +0000 UTC]
excuse me, but didn't ceratosaurs have a horn on the nose ?
Also I had a notion they were extinct by Creatceous, but it's not as if I kept up with the latest developments. I'm pretty sure about the horn though; so basically what other difference was there that would alow to differentitae between a ceratosaurian and an allosaurian or other theropod ?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to ashimbabbar [2012-05-07 10:49:02 +0000 UTC]
Clade Ceratosauria = Ceratosaurus, Limusaurus Elaphrosaurus, Deltadromeus & abelisauroids (Carnotaurus, Skorpiovenator, Rugops, Majungasaurus, Masiakasaurus etc) The only ceratosaur with a nasal horn is Ceratosaurus itself.
While listing all the diagnostic characters of the Ceratosauria would take up too much space, NMV P221202 (an isolated astragalocalcaneum) is considered a ceratosaur primarily due to the shape of the ascending process of the astragalus (tall and plate-like with a parallel-side base) and the fact that the astragalus and calcaneum are intimately fused to one another (the only other theropods that do this are deinonychosaurs and birds, and the rest of the astragalocalcaneum doesn't look like one of those)
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
ashimbabbar In reply to Gogosardina [2012-05-07 11:00:35 +0000 UTC]
nothing like talking with an expert. Thnks.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Tomozaurus [2012-05-07 09:33:00 +0000 UTC]
I was at the dig where they found this... must have found it after I had left. Bugger.
Anyway, excellent work.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to Tomozaurus [2012-05-07 09:56:25 +0000 UTC]
Never done any other of the Strzelecki digs - been on a few of the Otway sessions though, notably "Eric the Crayfish" (Eric the Red West) where they found that articulated ornithopod + spinosaur cervical.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
pilsator [2012-05-07 09:24:33 +0000 UTC]
Wonderful, Brian!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina [2012-05-07 08:55:56 +0000 UTC]
Megaraptoran allosaurs (the "polar-Allosaurus astragalus is from the same unit), various small ornithopods, lungfish and Koolasuchus.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Boverisuchus In reply to Gogosardina [2012-05-07 09:01:29 +0000 UTC]
Do you think relatives of Deltadromaeus could turn up in Australia? And what kind of dinosaur would be Australia's most likely cretaceous apex predator? Big megaraptorids, or something more like Giganotosaurus?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to Boverisuchus [2012-05-07 09:09:14 +0000 UTC]
According to the Fitzgerald et. al paper, one analysis has NMV P221202 as the sister taxon to Deltadromeus within Abelisauroidea.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to PeteriDish [2012-05-07 08:58:16 +0000 UTC]
Great that this thing is finally published.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gogosardina In reply to Tyrannotitan333 [2012-05-07 08:56:47 +0000 UTC]
Megaraptoran allosaurs (the "polar-Allosaurus astragalus is from the same unit), various small ornithopods, lungfish and Koolasuchus.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0